What is "Success" in 2010?

MBAGuy

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We've been going around and around on here with regard to how success will be defined next season. Is it W/L? Is it about improvement in offensive and defensive rankings both in the Big Ten and NCAA? Or is it about seeing significant contributions from RFr and Sophomores as a sign that 2011 will be a special season?

Next year's schedule is ridiculously tough. Most of our traditionally "winnable" conference games are on the road (Purdue, Illinois, and MSU), while we've got this year's top three, OSU, PSU, and Iowa at home. Five to seven wins (2-4 conference wins) is what I would consider to be the probable outcome of that schedule and that is probably insufficient to be deemed a success in the minds of most Gopher fans in Brew's 4th year.

One can get more nuanced in the judging of wins and losses by looking at the quality of wins. Brewster is justifiably criticized for his lack of trophy and/or signature wins. In my opinion, 5-7 wins in 2010 can be deemed a success if we are able to 1) beat Iowa or Wisconsin AND 2) give OSU and PSU a legitimate run for their money. That, to me, means being within 10 points (while actually scoring some points) going into the 4th quarter. We've done a reasonably good job this year of winning the games we should win (Illinois and ISU are the obvious exceptions), but we've failed to pull an upset of any kind (MSU is arguably an upset, though at I recall, the line was +2.5, which is a minor upset, at best). We need some movement in this area.

With respect to improvement in offensive and defensive ranking irrespective of W/Ls, this is a tricky measurement of success. I'm not sure about the extent to which rankings are correlated with wins, but I suspect there is a pretty strong relationship between the two. To look at rankings independently of W/Ls (which would be necessary to use it as a separate measure of success) we can use improvement in the respective rankings. On offense, the Gophers rank last in both yards per game (306.5 v. Iowa at 330, who were 10th)) and points per game (20.9 v. Iowa at 23.1, who again were 10th) in the Big Ten. On defense, the Gophers were tied for 5th in passing defense (217.5 yards per game) and 7th in rushing defense (151.7 yards per game). (Scoring stats were unavailable when I was looking this up, but I'd suspect we're in the middle to lower third of the conference).

This suggests we have a lot of room for improvement on offense, with literally nowhere to go but up and are at reasonable parity with the rest of the conference on the defensive side of the ball. In my opinion, we should be aiming to be ranked 4, 5, or 6 on both offense and defense. We seem to have the horses on offense to improve. With even average QB play, we have a solid stable of WRs to hurt opponents; our OL has improved over the year with all starters returning in 2010 and supplemented with Olson, Michel, and Gjere; and we should have some options at RB next year to see if something finally works. Defensively, we lose nine of our starters from this year, but athletically, we should be in good shape. In short, if we can move from last in the conference on offense to a ranking of 5-7 and integrate new players but keep our current defensive ranking, I would have to deem the season a success. This would be independent of W/Ls, but it stands to reason that if our offense improved to that extent while the defense stayed consistent with 2009's performance, we would see an improvement in W/Ls.

The final measure of success would be the contribution from young players to give us hope for 2011. This is almost too nebulous to use as a true measure, but the hope for the future is really all we've had as Gopher fans for the last 40 years, so it's worth mentioning. We've seen quite a bit of the young talent on the squad this year, but not to the extent where it gives us a ton of confidence that next year is a breakthrough. Mcknight, Cooper, Carter, Singleton, Gray, et al. were all solid contributors, but were largely relegated to playing second fiddle to the upperclass incumbents. To deem next year a success by some "hope for the future" metric, we'd need to see significant contributions from the young bucks that may not necessarily translate into on-the-field success. I really don't even know how to measure this, other than to say I'll know it when I see it. :)

Thoughts? I'd really like to have a constructive dialogue on how the Brew lovers and haters will be gauging success next year.
 

Success? I dunno. First things first: we need to reach .500 in the B10.
 

We've been going around and around on here with regard to how success will be defined next season. Is it W/L? Is it about improvement in offensive and defensive rankings both in the Big Ten and NCAA? Or is it about seeing significant contributions from RFr and Sophomores as a sign that 2011 will be a special season?

Next year's schedule is ridiculously tough. Most of our traditionally "winnable" conference games are on the road (Purdue, Illinois, and MSU), while we've got this year's top three, OSU, PSU, and Iowa at home. Five to seven wins (2-4 conference wins) is what I would consider to be the probable outcome of that schedule and that is probably insufficient to be deemed a success in the minds of most Gopher fans in Brew's 4th year.

One can get more nuanced in the judging of wins and losses by looking at the quality of wins. Brewster is justifiably criticized for his lack of trophy and/or signature wins. In my opinion, 5-7 wins in 2010 can be deemed a success if we are able to 1) beat Iowa or Wisconsin AND 2) give OSU and PSU a legitimate run for their money. That, to me, means being within 10 points (while actually scoring some points) going into the 4th quarter. We've done a reasonably good job this year of winning the games we should win (Illinois and ISU are the obvious exceptions), but we've failed to pull an upset of any kind (MSU is arguably an upset, though at I recall, the line was +2.5, which is a minor upset, at best). We need some movement in this area.

With respect to improvement in offensive and defensive ranking irrespective of W/Ls, this is a tricky measurement of success. I'm not sure about the extent to which rankings are correlated with wins, but I suspect there is a pretty strong relationship between the two. To look at rankings independently of W/Ls (which would be necessary to use it as a separate measure of success) we can use improvement in the respective rankings. On offense, the Gophers rank last in both yards per game (306.5 v. Iowa at 330, who were 10th)) and points per game (20.9 v. Iowa at 23.1, who again were 10th) in the Big Ten. On defense, the Gophers were tied for 5th in passing defense (217.5 yards per game) and 7th in rushing defense (151.7 yards per game). (Scoring stats were unavailable when I was looking this up, but I'd suspect we're in the middle to lower third of the conference).

This suggests we have a lot of room for improvement on offense, with literally nowhere to go but up and are at reasonable parity with the rest of the conference on the defensive side of the ball. In my opinion, we should be aiming to be ranked 4, 5, or 6 on both offense and defense. We seem to have the horses on offense to improve. With even average QB play, we have a solid stable of WRs to hurt opponents; our OL has improved over the year with all starters returning in 2010 and supplemented with Olson, Michel, and Gjere; and we should have some options at RB next year to see if something finally works. Defensively, we lose nine of our starters from this year, but athletically, we should be in good shape. In short, if we can move from last in the conference on offense to a ranking of 5-7 and integrate new players but keep our current defensive ranking, I would have to deem the season a success. This would be independent of W/Ls, but it stands to reason that if our offense improved to that extent while the defense stayed consistent with 2009's performance, we would see an improvement in W/Ls.

The final measure of success would be the contribution from young players to give us hope for 2011. This is almost too nebulous to use as a true measure, but the hope for the future is really all we've had as Gopher fans for the last 40 years, so it's worth mentioning. We've seen quite a bit of the young talent on the squad this year, but not to the extent where it gives us a ton of confidence that next year is a breakthrough. Mcknight, Cooper, Carter, Singleton, Gray, et al. were all solid contributors, but were largely relegated to playing second fiddle to the upperclass incumbents. To deem next year a success by some "hope for the future" metric, we'd need to see significant contributions from the young bucks that may not necessarily translate into on-the-field success. I really don't even know how to measure this, other than to say I'll know it when I see it. :)

Thoughts? I'd really like to have a constructive dialogue on how the Brew lovers and haters will be gauging success next year.

Just my opinion, but 6 wins and and one upset without "giving" any games away would be a successful season to me. I can stand losses on the road and at home to USC, as long as we win the games we are "suppossed" to win. A win at home against Iowas would be nice too...
 

I'm not going to put a record on it. With our tough schedule, we could have some very encouraging losses. I think we'll win between 4-7 games but within that it could be impressive or unimpressive. I want to see some redshirt sophomores and juniors take big jumps.
 

A .500 season with a trophy game win would be a success for me.
 


1 or 2 wins; no wins versus Wisconsin or Iowa and no bowl. Brewster gets a contract extention forever.
 

One measure of success has to be the buzz the program can create. The stadium buzz seems to be wearing off and to get students and other fence sitters fired up will take a big, impressive win - particularly on national tv and particularly at home. Beating USC may be a pipe dream but it would be awesome. The Gophers also need to keep from tanking late in the season. So to answer the question I guess I'd say the Gophers need a marquee win (USC, PSU, OSU), win at least 6 games, and win two of the last three - to be a success in my eyes.

p.s. - throw in Floyd or the Axe too
 

I have a question for you MBAGuy

We've been going around and around on here with regard to how success will be defined next season. Is it W/L? Is it about improvement in offensive and defensive rankings both in the Big Ten and NCAA? Or is it about seeing significant contributions from RFr and Sophomores as a sign that 2011 will be a special season?

Next year's schedule is ridiculously tough. Most of our traditionally "winnable" conference games are on the road (Purdue, Illinois, and MSU), while we've got this year's top three, OSU, PSU, and Iowa at home. Five to seven wins (2-4 conference wins) is what I would consider to be the probable outcome of that schedule and that is probably insufficient to be deemed a success in the minds of most Gopher fans in Brew's 4th year.

One can get more nuanced in the judging of wins and losses by looking at the quality of wins. Brewster is justifiably criticized for his lack of trophy and/or signature wins. In my opinion, 5-7 wins in 2010 can be deemed a success if we are able to 1) beat Iowa or Wisconsin AND 2) give OSU and PSU a legitimate run for their money. That, to me, means being within 10 points (while actually scoring some points) going into the 4th quarter. We've done a reasonably good job this year of winning the games we should win (Illinois and ISU are the obvious exceptions), but we've failed to pull an upset of any kind (MSU is arguably an upset, though at I recall, the line was +2.5, which is a minor upset, at best). We need some movement in this area.

With respect to improvement in offensive and defensive ranking irrespective of W/Ls, this is a tricky measurement of success. I'm not sure about the extent to which rankings are correlated with wins, but I suspect there is a pretty strong relationship between the two. To look at rankings independently of W/Ls (which would be necessary to use it as a separate measure of success) we can use improvement in the respective rankings. On offense, the Gophers rank last in both yards per game (306.5 v. Iowa at 330, who were 10th)) and points per game (20.9 v. Iowa at 23.1, who again were 10th) in the Big Ten. On defense, the Gophers were tied for 5th in passing defense (217.5 yards per game) and 7th in rushing defense (151.7 yards per game). (Scoring stats were unavailable when I was looking this up, but I'd suspect we're in the middle to lower third of the conference).

This suggests we have a lot of room for improvement on offense, with literally nowhere to go but up and are at reasonable parity with the rest of the conference on the defensive side of the ball. In my opinion, we should be aiming to be ranked 4, 5, or 6 on both offense and defense. We seem to have the horses on offense to improve. With even average QB play, we have a solid stable of WRs to hurt opponents; our OL has improved over the year with all starters returning in 2010 and supplemented with Olson, Michel, and Gjere; and we should have some options at RB next year to see if something finally works. Defensively, we lose nine of our starters from this year, but athletically, we should be in good shape. In short, if we can move from last in the conference on offense to a ranking of 5-7 and integrate new players but keep our current defensive ranking, I would have to deem the season a success. This would be independent of W/Ls, but it stands to reason that if our offense improved to that extent while the defense stayed consistent with 2009's performance, we would see an improvement in W/Ls.

The final measure of success would be the contribution from young players to give us hope for 2011. This is almost too nebulous to use as a true measure, but the hope for the future is really all we've had as Gopher fans for the last 40 years, so it's worth mentioning. We've seen quite a bit of the young talent on the squad this year, but not to the extent where it gives us a ton of confidence that next year is a breakthrough. Mcknight, Cooper, Carter, Singleton, Gray, et al. were all solid contributors, but were largely relegated to playing second fiddle to the upperclass incumbents. To deem next year a success by some "hope for the future" metric, we'd need to see significant contributions from the young bucks that may not necessarily translate into on-the-field success. I really don't even know how to measure this, other than to say I'll know it when I see it.

Since you are the one with an MBA you must be in a position to hire people.
 

Since you are the one with an MBA you must be in a position to hire people.

Was there actually a question there somewhere? Or did you have a statement for me?

In either case, I have no idea what you're trying to say.
 



5 wins minimum in the BT along with a win over at least UW or Iowa.

Go Gophers!!
 


Sorry MBA

MBA...sorry. I pushed the wrong button. I decided to leave out the smart ass question about you hiring people and tried to take it out.

Question for you is you have indicated all on field types of measurement of success.

How about the academics and police blotter types of things. Will they be counted in your evalution of success?
 

Yep...that's it. Let's play down expectations once again. Y'all make me sick.

So what is success for you? 9-10 wins? Conference championship?

I would honestly like to know.
 



A 2:1 td/int ratio from the QB position, one 1000 yd rusher, get the God blessed Axe, then the stupid Oinker. I could care less about our record if we have competence on offense. If we have that, the wins will come together. I expect the same or better out of our defense even though we're replacing a lot of seniors. Here comes the athleticism.

I really, really want to believe in Jedd Fisch. Give me competence at the quarterback position and a back who can blow people over with the truck stick. The line put together more than enough 3-4+ second protections toward the end of the season, and we have some young guys that are apparently stronger coming up on the line. Record aside, all I want are competitive scores or big time blowouts with us on the winning side.

I know, I know, we can't settle for close games, yada yada yada. I'm not you. This is how I take my Gopher football. I'm only in my mid 20's and I plan on being a homer for life. If I set my expectations too high I'll become a bitter Saturday afternoon poster like the rest of the mouth breathers. I, nor anyone else, wants that. Go Gophers, go get 'em Brew.
 

success is a team that actually gets better from thier first game to their last. If that happens they should be better, hard to be worse though
 

MBA...sorry. I pushed the wrong button. I decided to leave out the smart ass question about you hiring people and tried to take it out.

Question for you is you have indicated all on field types of measurement of success.

How about the academics and police blotter types of things. Will they be counted in your evalution of success?

No sweat. If you were going for would I hire Brewster now, my answer would be no. But I wouldn't have hired him to begin with. My support for him now is more oriented toward having to dance with the one that brought me, since it seems to be certain he'll be here next year.

That's a fair question and a tough one. Right or wrong, off-the-field shenanigans seem easier to tolerate when the team is winning. I don't know that anything that took place this year is all that different than what happens with other programs. Anything much worse would need to be addressed on a case-by-case basis, but in general I would hope we'd see nothing worse than the blotter incidents this past year.

Academically, it seems like we're already successful. As I recall, we had the third most all academic team members in the conference, which says a lot. Dandridge and Brock are obviously disappointing, but that's just going to happen.
 

If they don't win the National Championship, they've failed. Is that realistic, ChuckBen7?
 

I would like to see a team that doesn't implode on a regular basis. A team that doesn't shoot themselves in the foot when we really need them to make a play. Thats the most painful thing about being a gopher fan, not the lack of talent, not even the losses necessarily. The games that we have a chance to win next year we need to win them. Had we done that this year we would have the Axe and Floyd.
 

We've been going around and around on here with regard to how success will be defined next season. Is it W/L? Is it about improvement in offensive and defensive rankings both in the Big Ten and NCAA? Or is it about seeing significant contributions from RFr and Sophomores as a sign that 2011 will be a special season?

Next year's schedule is ridiculously tough. Most of our traditionally "winnable" conference games are on the road (Purdue, Illinois, and MSU), while we've got this year's top three, OSU, PSU, and Iowa at home. Five to seven wins (2-4 conference wins) is what I would consider to be the probable outcome of that schedule and that is probably insufficient to be deemed a success in the minds of most Gopher fans in Brew's 4th year.

One can get more nuanced in the judging of wins and losses by looking at the quality of wins. Brewster is justifiably criticized for his lack of trophy and/or signature wins. In my opinion, 5-7 wins in 2010 can be deemed a success if we are able to 1) beat Iowa or Wisconsin AND 2) give OSU and PSU a legitimate run for their money. That, to me, means being within 10 points (while actually scoring some points) going into the 4th quarter. We've done a reasonably good job this year of winning the games we should win (Illinois and ISU are the obvious exceptions), but we've failed to pull an upset of any kind (MSU is arguably an upset, though at I recall, the line was +2.5, which is a minor upset, at best). We need some movement in this area.

With respect to improvement in offensive and defensive ranking irrespective of W/Ls, this is a tricky measurement of success. I'm not sure about the extent to which rankings are correlated with wins, but I suspect there is a pretty strong relationship between the two. To look at rankings independently of W/Ls (which would be necessary to use it as a separate measure of success) we can use improvement in the respective rankings. On offense, the Gophers rank last in both yards per game (306.5 v. Iowa at 330, who were 10th)) and points per game (20.9 v. Iowa at 23.1, who again were 10th) in the Big Ten. On defense, the Gophers were tied for 5th in passing defense (217.5 yards per game) and 7th in rushing defense (151.7 yards per game). (Scoring stats were unavailable when I was looking this up, but I'd suspect we're in the middle to lower third of the conference).

This suggests we have a lot of room for improvement on offense, with literally nowhere to go but up and are at reasonable parity with the rest of the conference on the defensive side of the ball. In my opinion, we should be aiming to be ranked 4, 5, or 6 on both offense and defense. We seem to have the horses on offense to improve. With even average QB play, we have a solid stable of WRs to hurt opponents; our OL has improved over the year with all starters returning in 2010 and supplemented with Olson, Michel, and Gjere; and we should have some options at RB next year to see if something finally works. Defensively, we lose nine of our starters from this year, but athletically, we should be in good shape. In short, if we can move from last in the conference on offense to a ranking of 5-7 and integrate new players but keep our current defensive ranking, I would have to deem the season a success. This would be independent of W/Ls, but it stands to reason that if our offense improved to that extent while the defense stayed consistent with 2009's performance, we would see an improvement in W/Ls.

The final measure of success would be the contribution from young players to give us hope for 2011. This is almost too nebulous to use as a true measure, but the hope for the future is really all we've had as Gopher fans for the last 40 years, so it's worth mentioning. We've seen quite a bit of the young talent on the squad this year, but not to the extent where it gives us a ton of confidence that next year is a breakthrough. Mcknight, Cooper, Carter, Singleton, Gray, et al. were all solid contributors, but were largely relegated to playing second fiddle to the upperclass incumbents. To deem next year a success by some "hope for the future" metric, we'd need to see significant contributions from the young bucks that may not necessarily translate into on-the-field success. I really don't even know how to measure this, other than to say I'll know it when I see it. :)

Thoughts? I'd really like to have a constructive dialogue on how the Brew lovers and haters will be gauging success next year.

MBAGuy - great post. I hope that many of the ardent Brewster supporters weigh in so that we have something to go back to come this time next year.

Personally I am expecting 4 maybe 5 wins next year. The games against MTSU and NIU aren't sure fire wins and USC, well... I would be willing to accept such a record, just as I was the year that Mason's squad was down and got blown out by Toledo, IF there is something tangible we can hang our hats on. It starts with establishing an offensive identity and a game plan that makes sense from week to week. This doesn't mean that we have to score 30+ points every week. Rather I'd like to see a solid game plan implemented in the first half of games and continuation of the trend of decent second half adjustments as necessary. It also means that we commit to a QB and a RB who take center stage every game. The revolving door we had at both positions, while it makes sense at times, makes it hard for players (and fans) to get into the rhythm of the game. On the defensive side, they need to be competitive and approach this year's level of play. It would be a definite positive if we could get more 3 and outs next year as well. As for the young players, they do need to step up and show meaningful signs that their potential will translate on the field. This may be the most important piece of the puzzle for Brewster. All the talk about recruiting successes will be rendered moot if there are clear signs it means something on Saturdays - in 2010 or the future.

There will be a lot of turnover on the 2-deeps next year. I don't think we can expect a top half finish in the B10 and I'd be shocked if we make it to a bowl next year. If we are legitimately competitive week in and week out and there are no obvious signs that the coaching staff is wanting, it could be enough to warrant another year for Brewster. Grading all of this will be largely subjective - "know it when we see it". Hope springs eternal...
 

"Success" to me next year is the same as Bleed laid out: 5 Big Ten wins including one (or both) of the Iowa and Wisconsin games.
 

A .500 season with a trophy game win would be a success for me.

Ditto

Ability to move the ball some and score at least one offensive touchdown each against USC, Penn State, Ohio State, and Iowa.
 

8-4 with win over BADgers or Iowa. And maybe even PSU
 

the Gophs will be lucky to beat N. Illinois next year and South Dakota may give them a scare
 

5-7 or worse = huge disappointment. Brewster gets canned
6-6 = Disappointed and Brewster probably gets fired
7-5 = Can live with it, especially if one or two of those wins are against Iowa or Wisconsin.
8-4 or better = Success
 

Great question by the OP.

IMHO success would be two things:

1) Play well and win against all teams that you should beat
2) Win a big game at Home (USC, PSU, OSU or IA)

IMO these are the things that keep fans happy and engaged. Nothing kills support for the gophers each season like a loss to a team the they should beat. Similarly, I think a big win at home against a favored team would drum up lots of excitement. I think if the gophers do those two things the record will follow.
 

For me, the Gophers marginally improved over last year. They played a tougher schedule and were in all but 2 games (PSU and OSU). They didn't take at the end of the year as demonstrated by holding Iowa to 12 points, and the defense was mostly sound despite being on the field too much. However, any gains by the defense and special teams was nearly negated by the offense. Coming into the year, I thought the most glaring problem on O was the line. I'm no longer as concerned about the O line as they seemed to improve during the season and have some talent coming up. However, I am very concerned about QB and RB. The QB has been dissected here enough, but the RBs also need to be much improved next year if we're going to compete. Let's face it, none of our current backs have done the job. I thought Eskridge was our best back and should have been featured more. Bennet was okay and I thought Whaley was used too often. None of our backs showed the ability to consistently find the hole or crease. MQ Gray showed more ability running the ball than our 3 backs. I think Eskridge gets better and hopefully Whaley can gain some strength and confidence to be the change of pace back.

With that said, I've always felt that conference wins is what we should measure our success by. We are a BCS conference so success here will also show in the polls.
 

I'm predicting a 5-7 season. With that, my success markers (from lowest to highest) would be as follows:

1) 6 Total wins

2) 5 wins and a trophy game win

3) 5 wins and a signature win over OSU, USC or PSU

4) 4+ Big Ten wins

5) 7+ Total wins

Extra Credit: Gray is starting QB
 

I would have said the same thing for Mason; For the Minnesota we know, success is 4 or 5 conference wins including either a) a trophy for our case, or b) a win over a legitimately ranked team. If we do those things, we should end up in the Champs Sports bowl or better.

I'm not saying that is what will be required for me to support another year with Brewster, it is just how I would define success in the near term for the Gophers.

Of course long term success MUST include a conference championship. If we don't think a coach could get us there within 5 years, he should not be our coach.
 

After hearing Brewster talking about the 2010 OL and the stud Hageman on the sports huddle today I think we can win 8 or more games next year.
 

success in 2010 is beating everyone at home that we are favored to beat, beat bucky and have 9 wins.
 




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