What I see...

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benlaur

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Just watched last night's game:

  • If you are a good shooting team and you have a low shooting percentage, you are taking bad shots.
    • Watching some of these games, most of our 3s are challenged. That is not offense. You can take a contested 3 at any point in the game. The key is to find a way to get more uncontested 3s.
      • We miss the open guy a ton. We take a mildly contested 3 when one more pass is a wide open 3.
      • When the double comes, kick it
      • When I draw 3 defenders, kick it,
      • If my teammate is more open than me, kick it
      • Do the above consistently and wins will come and shooting % will rise and everyone will have more fun
  • You need to establish clear roles for players and give them some time to do their thing. Basketball is a rhythm game, tough to get in a rhythm when you don't know when you are going to play or when you play for short stretches.
    • If anything, you just disconnect players unless you are a top notch communicator and are crystal clear with your expectations and get buy in.
  • We have won some games that probably reinforced bad play.
    • Players try to do too much when their teammates do too much. If I can't trust you to pass me the ball, I better do something when I get it. Everything breaks down from there.
Some of the solutions are pretty simple. I don't see poor shooting, I see bad shots.
 

I see poor facilities and the need to begin the quest for a new arena. Love the Barn and raised floor but it is time for a new venue. It is in fact a poor fan experience and does not impress recruits.
 



So we are going to fire the coach and build a new stadium-got it. Can we mix some opinions on alternative uniforms into the mix?
 


benlaur said:
Just watched last night's game:

  • If you are a good shooting team and you have a low shooting percentage, you are taking bad shots.
    • Watching some of these games, most of our 3s are challenged. That is not offense. You can take a contested 3 at any point in the game. The key is to find a way to get more uncontested 3s.
      • We miss the open guy a ton. We take a mildly contested 3 when one more pass is a wide open 3.
      • When the double comes, kick it
      • When I draw 3 defenders, kick it,
      • If my teammate is more open than me, kick it
      • Do the above consistently and wins will come and shooting % will rise and everyone will have more fun
  • You need to establish clear roles for players and give them some time to do their thing. Basketball is a rhythm game, tough to get in a rhythm when you don't know when you are going to play or when you play for short stretches.
    • If anything, you just disconnect players unless you are a top notch communicator and are crystal clear with your expectations and get buy in.
  • We have won some games that probably reinforced bad play.
    • Players try to do too much when their teammates do too much. If I can't trust you to pass me the ball, I better do something when I get it. Everything breaks down from there.
Some of the solutions are pretty simple. I don't see poor shooting, I see bad shots.
Click to expand...
Many of the three's are wide open. Nobody bothers to guard the 3 pt line against the Gophers any more. Why would they?

"Establish clear roles?" What does that even mean?

"Play for short stretches??" LOL. We have two of the leaders in minutes played per game. If anything, the bench gets too many minutes. Who the heck wants to see Greenlee in the game?? Hurt?
 

gopherjay said:
I see poor facilities and the need to begin the quest for a new arena. Love the Barn and raised floor but it is time for a new venue. It is in fact a poor fan experience and does not impress recruits.
Click to expand...
I couldn't agree more. In recent times, the U has built (or is building/expanding) new facilities for: football, men's & women's hockey, swimming & diving, baseball, softball, tennis, track & field, and maybe others I don't know about. Meanwhile men's & women's basketball (plus volleyball, wrestling, and gymnastics) play on in an outmoded barn-like structure that's remindful 19th-century arenas and is an uncomfortable eyesore to boot. The building may be of historic value to older fans, but as numerous commentators have pointed out it is doomed seldom, if ever, to catch the eye of truly gifted 18-year-old recruits, who are being shown the sparkling venues other programs have.
 

benlaur said:
Just watched last night's game:

  • If you are a good shooting team and you have a low shooting percentage, you are taking bad shots.
    • Watching some of these games, most of our 3s are challenged. That is not offense. You can take a contested 3 at any point in the game. The key is to find a way to get more uncontested 3s.
      • We miss the open guy a ton. We take a mildly contested 3 when one more pass is a wide open 3.
      • When the double comes, kick it
      • When I draw 3 defenders, kick it,
      • If my teammate is more open than me, kick it
      • Do the above consistently and wins will come and shooting % will rise and everyone will have more fun
  • You need to establish clear roles for players and give them some time to do their thing. Basketball is a rhythm game, tough to get in a rhythm when you don't know when you are going to play or when you play for short stretches.
    • If anything, you just disconnect players unless you are a top notch communicator and are crystal clear with your expectations and get buy in.
  • We have won some games that probably reinforced bad play.
    • Players try to do too much when their teammates do too much. If I can't trust you to pass me the ball, I better do something when I get it. Everything breaks down from there.
Some of the solutions are pretty simple. I don't see poor shooting, I see bad shots.
Click to expand...

Last night and Iowa game were full of good looks. We couldn't capitalize on a few point blank open layups and bricked every 3 in the clutch. For me, I agree with some of what you're saying but it's a mixed bag with this team.
 

Hey, I've enjoyed how in the past our BB Arena has been lauded as a classic Arena and one of the Top rated home arenas in the country. I remember back to the mid 70s when UMn actually led the nation in cbb attendance.

BUT...

Thing is, something happened since then, the whole Clem fiasco.

And along with that, came TIME. Lots of it. Time suffering through sanctions and recovering from our bad reputation, etc..

And times have changed, young recruits don't pine for traditional things anymore. I think we need a new Cbb Arena/Practice Facility to be our next endeavor.


So I agree, I think it's time to move on and upwards. Time to move on
 



What has happened to Gabe's shooting?
Is the team tried at the end of these last few games?
Guys will have a great game and then stink it up for a few games.
Is Richie ruining their confidence?
 

Halsey Hall said:
What has happened to Gabe's shooting?
Is the team tried at the end of these last few games?
Guys will have a great game and then stink it up for a few games.
Is Richie ruining their confidence?
Click to expand...
Yeah the whole gabe shooting thing is bizarre. Lights it up against louisville last year in ncaa game and then goes for 34 against okie state. Im pretty sure gabe is frustrated at going 1-10 every game it seems, but its not a lack of confidence from pitino's standpoint. Pitino plays him a ton of minutes and has more confidence in gabe than gabe has in gabeat this point. Yes, the lack of bench is tiring these guys out at end of game.
 

benlaur said:
Just watched last night's game:

  • If you are a good shooting team and you have a low shooting percentage, you are taking bad shots.
    • Watching some of these games, most of our 3s are challenged. That is not offense. You can take a contested 3 at any point in the game. The key is to find a way to get more uncontested 3s.
      • We miss the open guy a ton. We take a mildly contested 3 when one more pass is a wide open 3.
      • When the double comes, kick it
      • When I draw 3 defenders, kick it,
      • If my teammate is more open than me, kick it
      • Do the above consistently and wins will come and shooting % will rise and everyone will have more fun
  • You need to establish clear roles for players and give them some time to do their thing. Basketball is a rhythm game, tough to get in a rhythm when you don't know when you are going to play or when you play for short stretches.
    • If anything, you just disconnect players unless you are a top notch communicator and are crystal clear with your expectations and get buy in.
  • We have won some games that probably reinforced bad play.
    • Players try to do too much when their teammates do too much. If I can't trust you to pass me the ball, I better do something when I get it. Everything breaks down from there.
Some of the solutions are pretty simple. I don't see poor shooting, I see bad shots.
Click to expand...
You are right. We don't zip the ball around.

But... I think that the only guy who is forcing up shots is Gabe and I think it is because he so badly wants to get out of the slump. Ihnen gets and takes wide open shots and is hitting some and will hit more with time. Gabe is missing wide open shots and forced shots- he isn't playing favorites right now. Willis is shooting ok now.

Carr is getting blanketed with two guys and needs to get rid of the ball faster. Since this strategy started he is killing the flow a bit. I am no basketball coach but to me, one of the problems is that we often have all 5 guys outside because Oturu is looking to wheel and deal out there. Yes he is setting picks but I think everything is getting crammed up out there and he needs to be down in the paint. If they want to drop two on him down there, then you are going to see more wide open shots.

I'd love to see us get it into Oturu, and as you say let him draw the double and kick it and then let him re-position and get it into him again or take the wide open shot.
 

bga1 said:
I'd love to see us get it into Oturu, and as you say let him draw the double and kick it and then let him re-position and get it into him again or take the wide open shot.
Click to expand...
Agree, Oturu doesn't get the ball in good places to make his team better.
 



KillmeNow said:
Hey, I've enjoyed how in the past our BB Arena has been lauded as a classic Arena and one of the Top rated home arenas in the country. I remember back to the mid 70s when UMn actually led the nation in cbb attendance.

BUT...

Thing is, something happened since then, the whole Clem fiasco.

And along with that, came TIME. Lots of it. Time suffering through sanctions and recovering from our bad reputation, etc..

And times have changed, young recruits don't pine for traditional things anymore. I think we need a new Cbb Arena/Practice Facility to be our next endeavor.


So I agree, I think it's time to move on and upwards. Time to move on
Click to expand...

I can agree with most of this post. But I think it's time to drop the it's Clem's fault this team sucks right now.

That's ancient history. Most kids nowdays have no clue that happened or even know who Clem Haskins is. Flat out, this team needs to win and make a run in the tourney. Only then will things change. You can build them the best stadium in the world and it won't make any difference. Look at Nebraska...
 

Go Gophs said:
I can agree with most of this post. But I think it's time to drop the it's Clem's fault this team sucks right now.

That's ancient history. Most kids nowdays have no clue that happened or even know who Clem Haskins is. Flat out, this team needs to win and make a run in the tourney. Only then will things change. You can build them the best stadium in the world and it won't make any difference. Look at Nebraska...
Click to expand...
Agreed. Yea, New arena might be nice but I don't believe it's why we lose recruits. Also, the new practice facility is state of the art. It's definitely not that.

Coach better. Recruit better.
 




gopherjay said:
I see poor facilities and the need to begin the quest for a new arena. Love the Barn and raised floor but it is time for a new venue. It is in fact a poor fan experience and does not impress recruits.
Click to expand...
Heresy is all that is. F*ck off.
 

USAF said:
Many of the three's are wide open. Nobody bothers to guard the 3 pt line against the Gophers any more. Why would they?

"Establish clear roles?" What does that even mean?

"Play for short stretches??" LOL. We have two of the leaders in minutes played per game. If anything, the bench gets too many minutes. Who the heck wants to see Greenlee in the game?? Hurt?
Click to expand...
So you are saying the Gophers should not shoot 3s? You statement indicates you do.

I see it completely differently. They are not good at shooting contested 3s. So you need to find ways to create space. Watch the games. Most 3s we take are taken on the move or with a hand in the shooter's face. There are ways to get open 3s and we miss the open shooter a ton.

The bench will never look great when you play them for 3 minutes and outwardly there appears to be no rhyme or reason to the sub patterns. Do the players know what to expect? I am not entirely sure.
 
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benlaur said:
So you are saying the Gophers should not shoot 3s? You statement indicates you do.

I see it completely differently. They are not good at shooting contested 3s. So you need to find ways to create space. Watch the games. Most 3s we take are taken on the move or with a hand in the shooter's face. There are ways to get open 3s and we miss the open shooter a ton.

Then bench will never look great when you play them for 3 minutes and outwardly there appears to be no rhyme or reason to the sub patterns. Do the players know what to expect? I am not entirely sure.
Click to expand...

Pitino seems to have a mandate of shooting more threes this year without setting up the proper spacing to do so. Some of this, I do cut him slack. Our two best players are not natural three point shooters. Carr is so ball dominant, it's hard to even imagine a situation where another guard blows by the defender and kicks it out to Carr.

We also have an issue with decisive shooting/passing. Willis takes a lot of unnecessary dribbles prior to shooting. Demir is incapable of swinging the ball around the perimeter decisively and both Oturu and Carr are a bit too ball dominant.

This is part of what makes Ihnen so intriguing, he is a good athlete, does the "do stuff" stats and when he's open, he shoots. He also seems to have a better natural feel for spacing, he seems to naturally drift to open spots. Kalscheur has this ability, no one helps from him though.

TLDR: Even though we are shooting threes, we don't seem to be coaching spacing as well as we should. We also lack the talent to make teams pay for pressing up on us when we DO have spacing.
 

Ihnen should start for rest of season.

Tre Williams should also lead the wings in minutes.

Want to see what these freshman have in lost season
 

benlaur said:
So you are saying the Gophers should not shoot 3s? You statement indicates you do.

I see it completely differently. They are not good at shooting contested 3s. So you need to find ways to create space. Watch the games. Most 3s we take are taken on the move or with a hand in the shooter's face. There are ways to get open 3s and we miss the open shooter a ton.

Then bench will never look great when you play them for 3 minutes and outwardly there appears to be no rhyme or reason to the sub patterns. Do the players know what to expect? I am not entirely sure.
Click to expand...
Your original post said "If you are a good shooting team and you have a low shooting percentage, you are taking bad shots."

They're not "taking bad shots."

It's much simpler...they're not a good 3 pt shooting team. They get a lot of wide open three's. They just don't make many of them.

The bench problem is simple, too. There are precious few good options on it. It's not how and when Greenlee plays, it's that he plays.
 

GoodasGold said:
Heresy is all that is. F*ck off.
Click to expand...

Classy. Keep shuffling in the place then and take the perennial proposition of losing. Until the facilities are vastly improved and the commitment is made in coaching, we will see the top 10 recruits in this state go elsewhere. This program could be and certainly should be a top 20 program guaranteed every year. So much talent has not even considered the home team. Now get back to watching Hoosiers for the 100th time.
 

bga1 said:
You are right. We don't zip the ball around.

But... I think that the only guy who is forcing up shots is Gabe and I think it is because he so badly wants to get out of the slump. Ihnen gets and takes wide open shots and is hitting some and will hit more with time. Gabe is missing wide open shots and forced shots- he isn't playing favorites right now. Willis is shooting ok now.

Carr is getting blanketed with two guys and needs to get rid of the ball faster. Since this strategy started he is killing the flow a bit. I am no basketball coach but to me, one of the problems is that we often have all 5 guys outside because Oturu is looking to wheel and deal out there. Yes he is setting picks but I think everything is getting crammed up out there and he needs to be down in the paint. If they want to drop two on him down there, then you are going to see more wide open shots.

I'd love to see us get it into Oturu, and as you say let him draw the double and kick it and then let him re-position and get it into him again or take the wide open shot.
Click to expand...
Oturu doesn't kick it out. That's part of the problem. He tries to maneuver against 2-3 defensive players before putting up increasingly low percentage shots or sending the ball back out (not crisply kicking it out).
Opponents have scouted the gophers and found them very easy to defend because the two best players don't move the ball. Both Carr and Oturu consistently draw doubles and their responses are to fight through them instead of moving the ball.
 

USAF said:
Your original post said "If you are a good shooting team and you have a low shooting percentage, you are taking bad shots."

They're not "taking bad shots."

It's much simpler...they're not a good 3 pt shooting team. They get a lot of wide open three's. They just don't make many of them.

The bench problem is simple, too. There are precious few good options on it. It's not how and when Greenlee plays, it's that he plays.
Click to expand...
I wholeheartedly disagree. By definition, if you are shooting a low shooting percentage, you are factually taking bad shots. If a team takes shots they are not good at making, that is a bad shot...period.

That stated, I also think they take too many contested 3s. At my age, I am still capable of hitting above 50% on an open 3...not on a contested one. Same with the Gophers. This can be fixed.

On the bench and players. It is the coach's job to 1) recruit 2) put those players in a position to succeed. Every one of those players is capable of helping the team in some way. It is the coach's job to figure out what that way is for each player and hold them to it.
 
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jamiche said:
Oturu doesn't kick it out. That's part of the problem. He tries to maneuver against 2-3 defensive players before putting up increasingly low percentage shots or sending the ball back out (not crisply kicking it out).
Opponents have scouted the gophers and found them very easy to defend because the two best players don't move the ball. Both Carr and Oturu consistently draw doubles and their responses are to fight through them instead of moving the ball.
Click to expand...
You are right jamiche. Oturu is already a beast. He will look 10x better when he is getting 3-4 assists per game rather than 1. He attracts a ton of defensive attention. He will mitigate some of that defensive attention if he makes the opponent pay by consistently finding the open player...in turn helping the team and himself.
 

bga1 said:
You are right. We don't zip the ball around.

But... I think that the only guy who is forcing up shots is Gabe and I think it is because he so badly wants to get out of the slump. Ihnen gets and takes wide open shots and is hitting some and will hit more with time. Gabe is missing wide open shots and forced shots- he isn't playing favorites right now. Willis is shooting ok now.

Carr is getting blanketed with two guys and needs to get rid of the ball faster. Since this strategy started he is killing the flow a bit. I am no basketball coach but to me, one of the problems is that we often have all 5 guys outside because Oturu is looking to wheel and deal out there. Yes he is setting picks but I think everything is getting crammed up out there and he needs to be down in the paint. If they want to drop two on him down there, then you are going to see more wide open shots.

I'd love to see us get it into Oturu, and as you say let him draw the double and kick it and then let him re-position and get it into him again or take the wide open shot.
Click to expand...
Agreed BGA -- it's hard because they are not making it easy!
 


gopherjay said:
Classy. Keep shuffling in the place then and take the perennial proposition of losing. Until the facilities are vastly improved and the commitment is made in coaching, we will see the top 10 recruits in this state go elsewhere. This program could be and certainly should be a top 20 program guaranteed every year. So much talent has not even considered the home team. Now get back to watching Hoosiers for the 100th time.
Click to expand...
Athletes village is one of the best training facilities in the country, williams may be outdated but is still a good venue for college hoops
 

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