What can we expect from Isaiah Ihnen/Parker Fox next season?

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bga1 said:
Was Battle all Big Ten last year? Honorable mention?

Battle was the LEAST efficient player to play significant minutes on the Gophers last year. His three point percentage was near the bottom of the team. He played poor defense and took bad shots.

Basketball is a team game. They won't replace Battle with one guy, they will replace Battle with better team play and efficiency. I offer you Kris Humphries who led a last place team while being all Big Ten (as a freshman). The next year- without him - they went to the NCAAs. Will it happen this year? Probably not. Will we be better this year than last? Definitely.
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Better team would mean better coaching and putting players in the best position to succeed.
 

eker0016 said:
Jamison Battle's 4 year progression of PER (player efficiency rating):

13.0 -> 17.4 -> transfer to Minnesota: 18.3 -> 9.4

Comparison with Gabe Kalscheur:
11.9 -> 11.5 -> 9.3 transfer to Iowa State -> 6.0 -> 12.9

Battle was a more important player to our team in his first year here than Kalscheur ever was. Then absolutely cratered to Gabe Kalscheur junior year levels of efficiency last year. Could be injury, poor coaching, playing out of position, teams scouting him better etc.

While I would have said he was our 1st or 2nd best player on the team going into last year, I do think there is merit to the idea that if we could replace Battle with a more efficient wing player (major TBD!) and get better guard play from Hawkins/Mitchell/Carrington than we got from Cooper/Samuels/Henley last year...we are in a better place.
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Those 3 guy are going to keep the bigs in foul trouble all season because of the lack of defense
 


MNVCGUY said:
Your reaching pretty hard on this one to make this video a negative reflection on fox in any way shape or form. This video looks like it was posted by something called fresh coast TV and is promoting something called basektball enterprise. This didn't come from the U of M and it would seem like the only U of M connections are a couple of the players and the fact that they are using an on campus gym.
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Fox could have been at happy hour considering he’s like 25
 



Gophers7633 said:
We also brought in Grier who was a 1st team All B1G selection. Without him, we would have been terrible. We don't have anyone like that transferring in. Hagen and Robinson also improved significantly the following year. So our young guys are going to have to show improvement(which I think they will). Also, even though we finished last in 04, that team wasn't nearly as terrible as last years. So yeah, we'll be better, but it's a long leap from where we were to respectability.
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We didn’t know Vince would be that as a transfer. We don’t know what we actually have coming in
 

GopherPlaya said:
We didn’t know Vince would be that as a transfer. We don’t know what we actually have coming in
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Yeah, I know that. But he turned out to be that, which is why we had a great turnaround. If Mitchell/Hawkins is that, we'll be really good. I'm not seeing it, but I hope they are.
 

Casual_fan said:
Better team would mean better coaching and putting players in the best position to succeed.
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And that right there is the presumption that makes all things, all recruits and all ideas negative. No matter what happens this summer it doesn't matter because Ben can't coach.

I have had that thought at times, but when I put in perspective what he was thrown into, and considering the improvement I saw in the way we played later in the year, I am giving him a chance this next year and hope he does great with it. I think he has a better balanced roster, I think he will be a better coach and I believe we have some exciting players in the fold.
 



Gophers7633 said:
Yeah, I know that. But he turned out to be that, which is why we had a great turnaround. If Mitchell/Hawkins is that, we'll be really good. I'm not seeing it, but I hope they are.
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Mitchell can be for all we know. How can you see something when there hasn’t been anything to see. That VG team was pick to finish low as well. He exceeded expectations
 

GopherPlaya said:
Mitchell can be for all we know. How can you see something when there hasn’t been anything to see. That VG team was pick to finish low as well. He exceeded expectations
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I'm projecting that none of our transfers will be first team all B1G. Obviously, we don't know for a fact what will happen, but I am predicting that he won't be first team all conference like VG was. Thus making it less likely we have a similar turnaround. I wouldn't have thought that going in VG would have been a first team all conference, so I would have been wrong, but that was the main reason for the turnaround. If Mitchell is first team all conference, I will have been wrong, and admit it, and be happy with that outcome.
 

Gophers7633 said:
I'm projecting that none of our transfers will be first team all B1G. Obviously, we don't know for a fact what will happen, but I am predicting that he won't be first team all conference like VG was. Thus making it less likely we have a similar turnaround. I wouldn't have thought that going in VG would have been a first team all conference, so I would have been wrong, but that was the main reason for the turnaround. If Mitchell is first team all conference, I will have been wrong, and admit it, and be happy with that outcome.
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We don't have to have a Vince Grier all conference transfer- his team had Coleman (good player, Hagen who had done nothing prior, Robinson who had done nothing, Lawson, again nothing. But they played great together and Grier was terrific.

We have to have a team that fits together well and improvement from every player. We already have all conference candidates in Payne and Garcia.
Only four teams in the Big Ten had two players in the top 3 all conference team. Let's say we end up having an all frosh team guy in Christie or Betts and then we have one of Garcia and Payne make all conference and the other be honorable mention. Right there you would have 3 players in the top 40 in the Big Ten and you have, at worst, average talent.

None of that requires anything crazy to happen. The rest is up to the team gelling together into a unit that is efficient on both ends.
 

bga1 said:
We don't have to have a Vince Grier all conference transfer- his team had Coleman (good player, Hagen who had done nothing prior, Robinson who had done nothing, Lawson, again nothing. But they played great together and Grier was terrific.

We have to have a team that fits together well and improvement from every player. We already have all conference candidates in Payne and Garcia.
Only four teams in the Big Ten had two players in the top 3 all conference team. Let's say we end up having an all frosh team guy in Christie or Betts and then we have one of Garcia and Payne make all conference and the other be honorable mention. Right there you would have 3 players in the top 40 in the Big Ten and you have, at worst, average talent.

None of that requires anything crazy to happen. The rest is up to the team gelling together into a unit that is efficient on both ends.
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I think Garcia is definitely a top 20 B1G player, and he could perhaps make 2nd or 3rd team all conference(with team success). Outside of that, I wouldn't pencil anyone else as being a top 40 B1G player as it stands now. Payne, and everyone else is going to have to make a big leap. Heck just between what MSU, Purdue(assuming Edey comes back) and Maryland have coming back, that's probably 12 of the top 15 players in the league. Then throw in guys like Buie, Johnson at IU, Baldwin at PSU, Omaryui at Rutgers, Hepburn, Crowl and Wahl at Wisconsin, it's going to be tough to crack the top 30/40 list in the B1G. Sure Payne will improve as will other guys on the team, but so will guys on other teams as well. It's not like our team is gonna be the only team to have guys get better.

To me, the question is, are we going to be better than teams like Iowa, PSU, Illinois and Michigan who have had massive roster changes? Them and Nebraska are the teams we need to be better then. I think PSU currently has a better roster than we do, so I'm questionable on that. Iowa, Illinois and Michigan have a lot of unknown like we do, so we can be better them IMO if it falls right. Nebraska is probably a little better than us, but certainly capable of finishing higher than them. I think every other team is probably off the table as far as finishing better than them. We'll see.
 



Gophers7633 said:
I think Garcia is definitely a top 20 B1G player, and he could perhaps make 2nd or 3rd team all conference(with team success). Outside of that, I wouldn't pencil anyone else as being a top 40 B1G player as it stands now. Payne, and everyone else is going to have to make a big leap. Heck just between what MSU, Purdue(assuming Edey comes back) and Maryland have coming back, that's probably 12 of the top 15 players in the league. Then throw in guys like Buie, Johnson at IU, Baldwin at PSU, Omaryui at Rutgers, Hepburn, Crowl and Wahl at Wisconsin, it's going to be tough to crack the top 30/40 list in the B1G. Sure Payne will improve as will other guys on the team, but so will guys on other teams as well. It's not like our team is gonna be the only team to have guys get better.

To me, the question is, are we going to be better than teams like Iowa, PSU, Illinois and Michigan who have had massive roster changes? Them and Nebraska are the teams we need to be better then. I think PSU currently has a better roster than we do, so I'm questionable on that. Iowa, Illinois and Michigan have a lot of unknown like we do, so we can be better them IMO if it falls right. Nebraska is probably a little better than us, but certainly capable of finishing higher than them. I think every other team is probably off the table as far as finishing better than them. We'll see.
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It's like Wisconsin every year. Other that what we know from history- we look at their lineup and one would think that they are not better than very many teams yet year after year they end up in the top end of the conference. Last year was off for them at 9-11 but they lost a half dozen games under 5 points and normally they pull those out. That's what we have to do. Yes, you have to field a competitive lineup (I think we will) but then you have to do the little things to win the close ones- play D, block out, get the loose balls, make the free throws, take good shots and limit turnovers. Last year's team was good at none of those.

I think we are going to be a good rebounding team, I think in Hawkins and Mitchell we have picked up back court speed and the ability to turn other teams over. They along with Betts and Christie are good shooters and better free throw shooters than Cooper was. We have to have the whole be a little better than the sum of the parts.
 

bga1 said:
And that right there is the presumption that makes all things, all recruits and all ideas negative. No matter what happens this summer it doesn't matter because Ben can't coach.

I have had that thought at times, but when I put in perspective what he was thrown into, and considering the improvement I saw in the way we played later in the year, I am giving him a chance this next year and hope he does great with it. I think he has a better balanced roster, I think he will be a better coach and I believe we have some exciting players in the fold.
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The "putting him in the best position to succeed" mantra is pathetically lazy.

One poster in particular beat this lame horse into submission for months, claiming Battle's poor performance last season was all due to Ben misplacing him on the floor. This is laughable considering Battle has played basketball most of his life yet suddenly was unable to know where to go on the floor to get a shot or rebound without being "put in position" by a coach on the sidelines.
 

Dakota2 said:
The "putting him in the best position to succeed" mantra is pathetically lazy.

One poster in particular beat this lame horse into submission for months, claiming Battle's poor performance last season was all due to Ben misplacing him on the floor. This is laughable considering Battle has played basketball most of his life yet suddenly was unable to know where to go on the floor to get a shot or rebound without being "put in position" by a coach on the sidelines.
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According to your logic coaches are all the same, no difference in worth. Because the players should know what to do and then do it, regardless of what the coach says. Therefore CBJ = Miles = Beard = Krzyzewski. If a player is making bad decisions it’s the coaches job to correct that, if he doesn’t you have to assume the player is playing how the coach has instructed. The apology tour just continues. You will hold a college kid responsible, but you refuse to hold the the adult being paid to be in charge of the operation responsible, that is leading the apology parade right there.
 

Gopher Teeth said:
According to your logic coaches are all the same, no difference in worth. Because the players should know what to do and then do it, regardless of what the coach says. Therefore CBJ = Miles = Beard = Krzyzewski. If a player is making bad decisions it’s the coaches job to correct that, if he doesn’t you have to assume the player is playing how the coach has instructed. The apology tour just continues. You will hold a college kid responsible, but you refuse to hold the the adult being paid to be in charge of the operation responsible, that is leading the apology parade right there.
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There is no doubt that it is on CBJ that the team didn't fit. Too much youth mixed with too little veteran speed and ability - featuring poor guard play. That said Johnson didn't force Battle to take bad shots, shoot 30%, play lousy defense and fail to help teammates grow with him. Was Johnson responsible (and do you give him credit) for Battle's far more productive year 1 as a Gopher? Probably not. Year one despite less overall roster ability- the pieces fit better and the players were older. This will be easily the best roster Ben has put out there. He will need to do well with it to keep his job
 

bga1 said:
It's like Wisconsin every year. Other that what we know from history- we look at their lineup and one would think that they are not better than very many teams yet year after year they end up in the top end of the conference. Last year was off for them at 9-11 but they lost a half dozen games under 5 points and normally they pull those out. That's what we have to do. Yes, you have to field a competitive lineup (I think we will) but then you have to do the little things to win the close ones- play D, block out, get the loose balls, make the free throws, take good shots and limit turnovers. Last year's team was good at none of those.

I think we are going to be a good rebounding team, I think in Hawkins and Mitchell we have picked up back court speed and the ability to turn other teams over. They along with Betts and Christie are good shooters and better free throw shooters than Cooper was. We have to have the whole be a little better than the sum of the parts.
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On thing about Wisky. They play solid D and are at or in the top 5 in the BIG. Plus they get the ball to their 5 and let him go to work. Ben's teams haven't done either very well.

All our returning players need to step it up on D and the other important mentioned parts of the game. Its not just shooting 3's when the play clock is about to run out. 3's are good within the flow of the possession. Hawkins and
Mitchell must be an improvement on D and ball movement which I think they will be.

The Gopher roster is full of “key” guys. Take your pick. All anyone talks about is scoring but the focus must be on defense, rebounding and playing within the system. No one talks about that and only Ben and staff know the details.

At this point. Minutes are there for those who are the most well rounded players. Other than Garcia and Payne good luck to the others.
 

bga1 said:
There is no doubt that it is on CBJ that the team didn't fit. Too much youth mixed with too little veteran speed and ability - featuring poor guard play. That said Johnson didn't force Battle to take bad shots, shoot 30%, play lousy defense and fail to help teammates grow with him. Was Johnson responsible (and do you give him credit) for Battle's far more productive year 1 as a Gopher? Probably not. Year one despite less overall roster ability- the pieces fit better and the players were older. This will be easily the best roster Ben has put out there. He will need to do well with it to keep his job
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I give him credit for all years of his coaching, individual and team; that probably doesn’t net out well for him. Hopefully he’s making changes to how he does things.
 

eker0016 said:
Do you have an idea how coveted Grier was as a JUCO recruit? And what expectations were for him coming in?

I was in college then and paid no attention to recruiting so all I remember was him showing up on the team and being way better than I thought a JUCO transfer would be. I found an article talking about how he had to play PF/C after injuries and him struggling at PG while at Dixie State. His coach mentions BYU was recruiting him.

All that to say I think you are correct, we don't have a guy coming in who will be first team All B1G. Guys can progress and grow and outperform expectations though. I am really hoping that one of Hawkins/Mitchell/Carrington shows major growth and becomes a "problem" for other teams, and that one of our total unknowns of Betts/Christie/Fox/Ihnen contributes significantly more than we think.
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It was us and Oklahoma on Grier at the end with BYU and some others also involved. None of us on the board at that time had any idea Grier could/would have the type of impact he had. Unfortunately Grier (and DeAndre Mathieu years later) kind of turned in to pumpkins after strong first years out of JUCO. Kind of an unusual thing with Gopher Basketball over the years has been some key guys not only failing to improve year over year but actually regressing.

You could argue the program would have been better off if Grier hadn't exceeded expectations. That would have been the end of Monson with another bad year at that point instead it bought him more time, but he wouldn't even make another NCAA tournament.
 

EG#9 said:
It was us and Oklahoma on Grier at the end with BYU and some others also involved. None of us on the board at that time had any idea Grier could/would have the type of impact he had. Unfortunately Grier (and DeAndre Mathieu years later) kind of turned in to pumpkins after strong first years out of JUCO. Kind of an unusual thing with Gopher Basketball over the years has been some key guys not only failing to improve year over year but actually regressing.

You could argue the program would have been better off if Grier hadn't exceeded expectations. That would have been the end of Monson with another bad year at that point instead it bought him more time, but he wouldn't even make another NCAA tournament.
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Mathieu had a child between the two years and life got a little different for him.
 

EG#9 said:
It was us and Oklahoma on Grier at the end with BYU and some others also involved. None of us on the board at that time had any idea Grier could/would have the type of impact he had. Unfortunately Grier (and DeAndre Mathieu years later) kind of turned in to pumpkins after strong first years out of JUCO. Kind of an unusual thing with Gopher Basketball over the years has been some key guys not only failing to improve year over year but actually regressing.

You could argue the program would have been better off if Grier hadn't exceeded expectations. That would have been the end of Monson with another bad year at that point instead it bought him more time, but he wouldn't even make another NCAA tournament.
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bga1 said:
Mathieu had a child between the two years and life got a little different for him.
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Thanks for the context. I was a casual fan back then and was not aware!

As a father of a 2 year old, that makes sense with Mathieu. Different priorities/stressors.
 

EG#9 said:
It was us and Oklahoma on Grier at the end with BYU and some others also involved. None of us on the board at that time had any idea Grier could/would have the type of impact he had. Unfortunately Grier (and DeAndre Mathieu years later) kind of turned in to pumpkins after strong first years out of JUCO. Kind of an unusual thing with Gopher Basketball over the years has been some key guys not only failing to improve year over year but actually regressing.

You could argue the program would have been better off if Grier hadn't exceeded expectations. That would have been the end of Monson with another bad year at that point instead it bought him more time, but he wouldn't even make another NCAA tournament.
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In Grier's defense, he got injured early in the season and just never quite looked the same after.
 



Jamison was born in 2001. Your math sucks. New math? Minnesota Math Teacher?
 




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