Whalen needs to go, good grief!!!

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GrayShouldPlayReceiver

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This experiment has failed miserably. I know the team is young but they play such undisciplined basketball.
 


You one fun
GrayShouldPlayReceiver said:
This experiment has failed miserably. I know the team is young but they play such undisciplined basketball.
Click to expand...

GrayShouldPlayReceiver said:
This experiment has failed miserably. I know the team is young but they play such undisciplined basketball.
Click to expand...
They are FRESHMAN! When you were18 &19 no doubt your accomplishments were many. These women are learning B1G basketball. The opponents are quicker, faster, stronger, taller and have more experience. Until they learn, the best thing about freshman is they become SOPHOMORES!
If you are that frustrated with their game, don't watch. You'll save your heart and frustration. Otherwise it's about seeing what they are doing RIGHT. That includes Whalen. She knows more basketball that you and I will ever know!
 

Mnwhiteshoes said:
You one fun



They are FRESHMAN! When you were18 &19 no doubt your accomplishments were many. These women are learning B1G basketball. The opponents are quicker, faster, stronger, taller and have more experience. Until they learn, the best thing about freshman is they become SOPHOMORES!
If you are that frustrated with their game, don't watch. You'll save your heart and frustration. Otherwise it's about seeing what they are doing RIGHT. That includes Whalen. She knows more basketball that you and I will ever know!
Click to expand...
I don't think anyone is questioning Whalen's basketball IQ. The question is, can she teach what she knows? There are many examples of great players failing at coaching.
 

Mnwhiteshoes said:
You one fun



They are FRESHMAN! When you were18 &19 no doubt your accomplishments were many. These women are learning B1G basketball. The opponents are quicker, faster, stronger, taller and have more experience. Until they learn, the best thing about freshman is they become SOPHOMORES!
If you are that frustrated with their game, don't watch. You'll save your heart and frustration. Otherwise it's about seeing what they are doing RIGHT. That includes Whalen. She knows more basketball that you and I will ever know!
Click to expand...
Thanks Ben
 



You have to give her 1-2 more years. Like Whiteshoes said, she's improving too. The whole team is Freshman and Sophomores. Lets see how this plays out. She needs to continue to recruit.
 

In my opinion it would be the epitome of shooting yourself in the foot if you changed coaches after getting this years recruiting class and the signing of next years class which looks fantastic also. If next year is a disaster too then it is reasonable to start thinking about it in my opinion but if next year shows solid improvement and players seem happy in the program you don't change as far as I am concerned. I see improvement this year, although it has been slower than I hoped and astoundingly frustrating.
 

Mnwhiteshoes said:
That's not the point! Whalen is improving also. All areas of the coaching have improved this year
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... how do you measure that?


How can a person possible say "well, the team is still losing, but you can see that the quality of the coach is improving!"

How? How can you see that?
 



For those on team improvement, a lot is riding on the last five games of the season after OSU. The Gophers get 3 games against fellow members of the bottom six (a weak group), and 2 home games against middling Nebraska and Purdue. 4-1 would really help the improvement story, and 3-2 (maybe with a tournament win) seems like the floor of what is needed to try to cobble together a positive narrative heading into 2023-24.

Next season seems like a make or break season. Either Rose, Katie and the ‘22 and ‘23 recruits will earn Lindsay an extension, or she will be facing the end. At this point, she has very little to sell to the ‘24 class. 2022-23 was another disappointing year, record wise, and Lindsay’s current contract is set to expire at the end of the 2024-25 season (correct ?), meaning at the of the 1st season for the ‘24 recruiting class. And she has even less to sell at present to the ‘25 and ‘26 classes, except the promise that the Gophers will be much improved in 2023–24, upon which she will have to deliver or face termination/resignation.

The idea of her coaching the 2024-25 season without an extension seems untenable IMO.
 

BigTenGuy said:
For those on team improvement, a lot is riding on the last five games of the season after OSU. The Gophers get 3 games against fellow members of the bottom six (a weak group), and 2 home games against middling Nebraska and Purdue. 4-1 would really help the improvement story, and 3-2 (maybe with a tournament win) seems like the floor of what is needed to try to cobble together a positive narrative heading into 2023-24.

Next season seems like a make or break season. Either Rose, Katie and the ‘22 and ‘23 recruits will earn Lindsay an extension, or she will be facing the end. At this point, she has very little to sell to the ‘24 class. 2022-23 was another disappointing year, record wise, and Lindsay’s current contract is set to expire at the end of the 2024-25 season (correct ?), meaning at the of the 1st season for the ‘24 recruiting class. And she has even less to sell at present to the ‘25 and ‘26 classes, except the promise that the Gophers will be much improved in 2023–24, upon which she will have to deliver or face termination/resignation.

The idea of her coaching the 2024-25 season without an extension seems untenable IMO.
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That's one view. Why did Rose progress so quickly from Freshman to sophomore? According to your perspective it had nothing to do with coaching. I assert that's it's because of coaching. Rose changed her body. Why does she get a double double each game, coaching. We now have talented freshman that will get stronger, improve their shooting, & learn more B1G skills. 2023 brings a freshman class that appears very talented.2024 According to your assertion they well be ruined by Whalen coaching. 2024 recruiting is off to a solid start. Based on your post, their game and team mates won't progress and YOU WILL BE CORRECT BUT FRUSTRATED. I don't buy any of your negativity. The 2023 team will gain 7-12 more wins, in my projection based on Rose. Lastly Whalen is learning and improving.
 

Mnwhiteshoes said:
That's one view. Why did Rose progress so quickly from Freshman to sophomore? According to your perspective it had nothing to do with coaching. I assert that's it's because of coaching. Rose changed her body. Why does she get a double double each game, coaching. We now have talented freshman that will get stronger, improve their shooting, & learn more B1G skills. 2023 brings a freshman class that appears very talented.2024 According to your assertion they well be ruined by Whalen coaching. 2024 recruiting is off to a solid start. Based on your post, their game and team mates won't progress and YOU WILL BE CORRECT BUT FRUSTRATED. I don't buy any of your negativity. The 2023 team will gain 7-12 more wins, in my projection based on Rose. Lastly Whalen is learning and improving.
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Where did BigTenGuy say anything like that? Maybe you responded to the wrong post???? Or are you just all worked up and ready to attack anyone that doesn't seem to drink the kool-aid you're having?
 




Mnwhiteshoes said:
Why did Rose progress so quickly from Freshman to sophomore? According to your perspective it had nothing to do with coaching. . . . 2023 brings a freshman class that appears very talented.2024 According to your assertion they well be ruined by Whalen coaching. 2024 recruiting is off to a solid start. Based on your post, their game and team mates won't progress and YOU WILL BE CORRECT BUT FRUSTRATED. I don't buy any of your negativity. . . .
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I either need to work more on my writing skills than I already think I do, or you need to work on your reading skills. I don’t think I said anything close to Rose’s improvement has nothing to do with coaching. To the contrary, I think Lindsay and Shimmy deserve huge credit for her improvement. Since the biggest jump is often made from year 1 to year 2, I’m also hopeful that at least 2-3 of the freshman will make a big jump next year.

I also don’t think I said anything close to the ‘2023 recruiting class will be ruined by Whalen. To the contrary, I said next year will be a make or break year, and that Lindsay will either earn an extension next season based on Rose, Katie, the ‘22 and ‘23 classes, or face the end.

In your post, you predict 7-12 more victories next year, which sounds like make it to me, provided Lindsay gets to at least 9 (hopefully 10) conference victories. Hard to justify an extension with 5-straight losing conference seasons (something no Gopher WBB coach has ever done)

What I was trying to say is that if Lindsay doesn’t win at least 3 more conference games this year (preferably 4), it will be really hard to sell this year as one of improvement. Instead, a 4-14 conference record in year 5 (meaning only 2 more victories) would correctly be painted as regression, the worst of Lindsay’s career, not improvement. Finally, FWIW, I’m hopeful Lindsay will win 3-4 more conference games this year. After OSU, there are some wins for the taking.
 

I previously games ago had posted a defense of keep things rolling, as a season ticket holder I vote to continue a rebuild.

I am no longer of that view. I niw wonder if these young players would blossom more with a coach that is a proven turnaround coach. Also the ability to recruit with that kind of past record.

This team lost to North Dakota State, got hammered by Michigan (like last year hammered by Iowa), and seems to have regressed. Coming out of Virginia game it looked like this team just needed to better handle turnovers. I am concerned with erosion. It doesn't look like improvement to me.

Wisconsin and Rutgers at times looked shocking.

Same old blow ties and leads. I don't see improvement.

I think Mara Braun and Maya Battle deserve better IF there is such a thing.

And at the same time how can I really know.

I know attendance is down. People sitting around me at games make critical comments, and I bet it erodes further this offseason. Where is the improvement?

Last year started with a shocking loss to a nobody school.

This year started with a shocking loss to a nobody schoolm

Last year blown out or ties/leads lost again and again. This year same thing.

I think about the new coach at Illinois with a turnaround record before.

This program is not headed to where Iowa or Michigan are

In fact, Michigan is the destination now for Minnesota kids

Next year more of the same.
 

Bfan said:
I previously games ago had posted a defense of keep things rolling, as a season ticket holder I vote to continue a rebuild.

I am no longer of that view. I niw wonder if these young players would blossom more with a coach that is a proven turnaround coach. Also the ability to recruit with that kind of past record.

This team lost to North Dakota State, got hammered by Michigan (like last year hammered by Iowa), and seems to have regressed. Coming out of Virginia game it looked like this team just needed to better handle turnovers. I am concerned with erosion. It doesn't look like improvement to me.

Wisconsin and Rutgers at times looked shocking.

Same old blow ties and leads. I don't see improvement.

I think Mara Braun and Maya Battle deserve better IF there is such a thing.

And at the same time how can I really know.

I know attendance is down. People sitting around me at games make critical comments, and I bet it erodes further this offseason. Where is the improvement?

Last year started with a shocking loss to a nobody school.

This year started with a shocking loss to a nobody schoolm

Last year blown out or ties/leads lost again and again. This year same thing.

I think about the new coach at Illinois with a turnaround record before.

This program is not headed to where Iowa or Michigan are

In fact, Michigan is the destination now for Minnesota kids

Next year more of the same.
Click to expand...
what about IF this program stays together.. they will be in the NCAA Tournament.. that you were peaching earlier in the season...
 

I trust my eyes…they play horrible defense, seem confused, and do not hustle. That is all coaching. Lindsey was a blast to watch but the coaching she’s done since she started has been lackluster to say the least. Good, local, players do not transfer if they sense good coaching. We will agree to disagree and I hope I’m wrong.
 

Funny guy
GrayShouldPlayReceiver said:
I trust my eyes…they play horrible defense, seem confused, and do not hustle. That is all coaching. Lindsey was a blast to watch but the coaching she’s done since she started has been lackluster to say the least. Good, local, players do not transfer if they sense good coaching. We will agree to disagr and I hope I’m wrong.
Click to expand...
So when the opponents run an offense that our freshman haven't seen or numerous variations of course they're out of position. I haven't seen Whalen playing. She coaches before, during, & after the game. Whalen is improving as a coach. It's difficult watching a team that has little or no confidence because the game is much more different than high school. It's about watching for doing something right and improving.
 

Funny guy
GrayShouldPlayReceiver said:
I trust my eyes…they play horrible defense, seem confused, and do not hustle. That is all coaching. Lindsey was a blast to watch but the coaching she’s done since she started has been lackluster to say the least. Good, local, players do not transfer if they sense good coaching. We will agree to disagr and I hope I’m wrong.
Click to expand...
So when the opponents run an offense that our freshman haven't seen or numerous variations of course they're out of position. I haven't seen Whalen playing. She coaches before, during, & after the game. Whalen is improving as a coach. It's difficult watching a team that has little or no confidence because the game is much more different than high school. It's about watching for doing something right and improving.
 

GrayShouldPlayReceiver said:
I trust my eyes…they play horrible defense, seem confused, and do not hustle. That is all coaching. Lindsey was a blast to watch but the coaching she’s done since she started has been lackluster to say the least. Good, local, players do not transfer if they sense good coaching. We will agree to disagree and I hope I’m wrong.
Click to expand...
I can agree with some of your assessments on lack of improvement but lack of hustle is not one of them. Undersized, lacking strength to finish at times yes, and lack of depth rotation yes, lack of hustle heck no. These ladies hustle, outside of the Michigan game, they have played hard all season.
 
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This is getting absurd. If, near the end of year 5 in a coach's tenure, the best thing you can say about the program is you are excited about the recruits on year 6, it is not going well. I have followed enough Minnesota college and pro sports to know how easy it is to sell optimism about next year. At some point, the proof needs to be in the pudding (or at least in the conference standings).
 

bleedsmaroonandgold said:
This is getting absurd. If, near the end of year 5 in a coach's tenure, the best thing you can say about the program is you are excited about the recruits on year 6, it is not going well. I have followed enough Minnesota college and pro sports to know how easy it is to sell optimism about next year. At some point, the proof needs to be in the pudding (or at least in the conference standings).
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Amen brudda!
 


Ragnor said:
In my opinion it would be the epitome of shooting yourself in the foot if you changed coaches after getting this years recruiting class and the signing of next years class which looks fantastic also. If next year is a disaster too then it is reasonable to start thinking about it in my opinion but if next year shows solid improvement and players seem happy in the program you don't change as far as I am concerned. I see improvement this year, although it has been slower than I hoped and astoundingly frustrating.
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On the Men's and Women's side you can't pull the plug after they do what you wanted them to in bringing in good recruiting classes. Next year would be a different story if they start to lose their teams, players transfer, or they just aren't getting better.
 

I can understand that based on wins and losses it's not good. I can't watch the Men's team because they are not young, they are injured, and Ben needs next year's recruiting class badly. We're all hoping for a point guard.
Whalen's team WILL IMPROVE! She has the talent. She has cut the minutes of a few players. If you want to see what Whalen is seeing, look at game minutes. Once again, Whalen doesn't pass, shot, or rebound. Players play. If you're telling me there's no game plan, then I'd agree with you. Freshman Have difficulty from paper to performance. The only area that really stands out is Rebounding (offensive/defensive). Shooting and passing are not their strong point THIS YEAR.
bleedsmaroonandgold said:
This is getting absurd. If, near the end of year 5 in a coach's tenure, the best thing you can say about the program is you are excited about the recruits on year 6, it is not going well. I have followed enough Minnesota college and pro sports to know how easy it is to sell optimism about next year. At some point, the proof needs to be in the pudding (or at least in the conference standings).
Click to expand...
 

Mnwhiteshoes said:
I can understand that based on wins and losses it's not good. I can't watch the Men's team because they are not young, they are injured, and Ben needs next year's recruiting class badly. We're all hoping for a point guard.
Whalen's team WILL IMPROVE! She has the talent. She has cut the minutes of a few players. If you want to see what Whalen is seeing, look at game minutes. Once again, Whalen doesn't pass, shot, or rebound. Players play. If you're telling me there's no game plan, then I'd agree with you. Freshman Have difficulty from paper to performance. The only area that really stands out is Rebounding (offensive/defensive). Shooting and passing are not their strong point THIS YEAR.
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Yes Ben Greve we have already thanked you once for your contributions….
 

CoachJD said:
I feel like the money train for Whalen and friends is coming to an end.
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This year? Next year? Barring something like an 0-6 or 1-5 finish, I think she will certainly get another year. And even with a disastrous finish to a disastrous year, resignation might be more likely than termination.
 

Bfan said:
I previously games ago had posted a defense of keep things rolling, as a season ticket holder I vote to continue a rebuild.

I am no longer of that view. I niw wonder if these young players would blossom more with a coach that is a proven turnaround coach. Also the ability to recruit with that kind of past record.

This team lost to North Dakota State, got hammered by Michigan (like last year hammered by Iowa), and seems to have regressed. Coming out of Virginia game it looked like this team just needed to better handle turnovers. I am concerned with erosion. It doesn't look like improvement to me.

Wisconsin and Rutgers at times looked shocking.

Same old blow ties and leads. I don't see improvement.

I think Mara Braun and Maya Battle deserve better IF there is such a thing.

And at the same time how can I really know.

I know attendance is down. People sitting around me at games make critical comments, and I bet it erodes further this offseason. Where is the improvement?

Last year started with a shocking loss to a nobody school.

This year started with a shocking loss to a nobody schoolm

Last year blown out or ties/leads lost again and again. This year same thing.

I think about the new coach at Illinois with a turnaround record before.

This program is not headed to where Iowa or Michigan are

In fact, Michigan is the destination now for Minnesota kids

Next year more of the same.
Click to expand...
I truly hope that you're not right. Minnesota has trouble recruiting in many sports. So to bring in very good classes back to back is very positive. I can't predict what can happen tomorrow. Perhaps your have powerful prognostication will serve you well.
 


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