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Weisbrod

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According to Rivals, that's the only other school to offer a scholarship to Minnesota signees Maxx Williams, Phillip Nelson, Isaac Fruechte, Scott Ekpe and Josh Ballesteros combined. Just facts.
 



I'm just saying, doesn't that worry any of you? Most Big Ten signees should at least have offers from other BCS schools. But not Kill's bunch...
 

If this was signing day, maybe I would be a bit concerned but considering that it's only June i'm not worried.
 


Yep, and Tommy Olson, Quinn Baudacco, Crawford Tufts, and Westerhaus had no other offers from ANY SCHOOLS!
They are therefore horrible, and not worthy.
Early commits. Still good football players.

Edit: A few offers I now see, still doesn't matter.
 

As I recall, "Kill's bunch" beat the crap out of the more highly recruited Gopher team last year.
 

Weisbrod said:
doesn't that worry any of you?
Click to expand...

Not even a little bit. If we have a bunch of one-offer players in February, then yes, I will be worried.

Weisbrod said:
Most Big Ten signees should at least have offers from other BCS schools. But not Kill's bunch...
Click to expand...

This is not true, at least not at all schools. Many of the players signed in an average year by Northwestern, Indiana, and Purdue don't have any other BCS offers. Since we, along with these schools, are a lower-quartile Big Ten school, it is completely unsurprising that we aren't able to sign many players who have other BCS options.
 

Weisbrod said:
I'm just saying, doesn't that worry any of you? Most Big Ten signees should at least have offers from other BCS schools. But not Kill's bunch...
Click to expand...

Agreed 100%


Guys like McDonald who's being wooed from big time BCS schools and sees the only guys Kill has gotten to commit are ones he yanked from mediocre at best MAC level talent. Yes he can turn guys like that into very good MAC football players, but he's not in the MAC anymore, he's in the BIGTEN. He needs to start pulling in guys who are of BIGTEN level talent. I have no doubt in his coaching up abilities.... but coaching up non BCS and DIAA type guys to play in our league is going to be harder than he thinks. Therefore, be more patient with a guy like McDonald, don't just pull his offer like some of the rubes on here want to do because he may have doubts and wants to look around. HE'S 17!!!! Of course he would want to look around, and so would all of you. He didn't de-commit (last time I checked) he was a soft verbal, because he sees the 'talent' that Kill is surrounding him with...
 



I will be worried in like 16 months if the team isnt 3-1 or better in nonconference games.
 

Funny that the two brainless monkies from the other thread are in agreement in this thread! Absolutely shocking.

And BTW Weisbrod, do you have the smallest clue about how Rivals works? They rely on the player to update their offer list by the player getting in touch with the Rivals recruiting guy and letting them know. Would it be possible that some of the players don't care to do this??? Let's take Max Shortell, one of the top HS passers in the country last year, his offer lists only shows the Gophers because he committed early, stuck with it, and didn't care about calling the Rivals guy to update his "Offer List". We know that Michigan called Shortell and offered him just before signing day but I don't see if listed as an offer on his "Offer List". You really think the Rivals Offer List is a completed list? Also, summer just started, the evaluation period is just getting started, not a lot of offers are even out at this point.
 

i think that most minnesota fans are under a skewed impression of exactly where the football program is right now.

Minnesota is about even with indiana as the worst program in the big ten.

being in the big ten is going to attract a certain level of player to commit to the program, but being on the bottom is not going to make minnesota competitive with other BCS schools.

players without connections to minnesota are not going to see the gleaming gem, sleeping giant that most of us see when we wonder why more three and four star players are not committing to the gophers. players with a connection to minnesota are more likely to want to play for the gophers because of that connection, but are just as likely to get stars in their eyes when an actual contender comes calling. not until the gophers start winning games will we be winning any recruiting wars with other BCS teams.

i think minnesota can be turned into a winner. after all, if boise state, tcu, etc. can do it, then all the more can a team with rich history, great facilities, world class city, being in the big ten and no instate competition do it. but it is going to be a process. it is not going to be a one year turnaround kind of thing. the coach that does facilitate the turnaround is going to have to be a alvarez/ferentz kind of coach. they are going to have to recruit mid-level palyers who fit their system, plug them into the system where they fit and then build year after year.

only after getting the gophers back to respectability will the gophers start to be able to lock down the borders. and only after getting back to respectability and locking down the borders will the fans start to get fanatical about the program and fill the stadium every saturday. the gophers will start to make mid-level bowl games and start to win them. when that happens, the gophers will be able to start winning some out of state recruiting battles for players with multiple BCS offers and no connections to the state. and after four or five years of building the gophers will go on a run and surprise some people.

when all that happens, then we as fans can start getting uppity about the kind of recruits that are committing.
 

Every recruit who has more than one BCS offer at some point had no BCS offers. The reasoning appears to be that we should wait until someone else has given those recruits offers. That's too passive, and leaves out scouting talent. For the time being at least, I will assume that Kill knows what he is doing, that he is recruiting players who will be good matches for his system.
 



Weisbrod, how many players with BCS offers has NDSU signed in the last 100 years??? Exactly, please come back on here in Sept when we ass-pound your cute little team.
 

I would say Minnesota is ahead of Indiana.
I would say Minnesota is basically in a 3 way tie with Purdue and Illinois for spots 11, 10, and 9 with Northwestern being 8....but even northwestern can be in that group.

Indiana is BY FAR the 12th best program in the conference. Look at winning percentages in and out of conference the last 15-20 years. It is not close.

I would put the teams into 5 groups when compared to the nation

I would group the programs
Elite:
Ohio State
Penn State
Nebraska
Michigan (still in here despite recent woes)

2nd level:
Iowa
Wisconsin

3rd level:
Michigan State

4th level:
Northwestern
Illinois
Purdue
Minnesota

Bottom Dwellers:
Indiana (this section basically consists of Indiana, Washington State, Baylor (though baylor is getting better), Vanderbilt, Duke, and non BCS schools)
 

Gopher028 said:
Agreed 100%


Guys like McDonald who's being wooed from big time BCS schools and sees the only guys Kill has gotten to commit are ones he yanked from mediocre at best MAC level talent. Yes he can turn guys like that into very good MAC football players, but he's not in the MAC anymore, he's in the BIGTEN. He needs to start pulling in guys who are of BIGTEN level talent. I have no doubt in his coaching up abilities.... but coaching up non BCS and DIAA type guys to play in our league is going to be harder than he thinks. Therefore, be more patient with a guy like McDonald, don't just pull his offer like some of the rubes on here want to do because he may have doubts and wants to look around. HE'S 17!!!! Of course he would want to look around, and so would all of you. He didn't de-commit (last time I checked) he was a soft verbal, because he sees the 'talent' that Kill is surrounding him with...
Click to expand...

And what is "BIGTEN" level talent? Is it based on skill? Is it the speed of a recruit? Is it the size of the recruit? He's recruiting to a system, and he's already acknowledged he's gotta get kids who are gonna be able to physically hang in the Big Ten, a conference I'm pretty sure he knows a little about. It is far too early to get wrapped up in offers and star ratings, just not enough has taken place. Evaluations aren't even remotely close to done and camps haven't even gotten into full swing.

Kill is offering guys he wants, that's good enough for me. It's not like he looks at a kid and says "You know, this is a MAC level talent kid, but I'm gonna force him to play at the next level just cause". If we come to next calendar year, and signing day is a month away and we're sitting with a bunch of unrated with no offers, then yes, that will be quite concerning. But looking at the offers Kill has put out there overall, I just don't think that's gonna happen, he's hit a pretty wide range, from studs to high solid guys, to guys under the radar. I'm guessing his crew has done their homework.
 

We're distinctly behind Illinois and Northwestern when it comes to recent successes, I would argue that right now we're no better than 10th, probably 11th because Purdue has one of the most vocal and recognizable faces in the NFL these days in Brees.

Northwestern has gone 34-29 (18-22) in the last five seasons, with three bowl games. Illinois has gone 26-36 (16-24), but has a Rose Bowl appearance. Purdue, 29-34 (16-24), two bowls. Gophers, 23-40 (11-29), three bowl games. Hoosiers 24-37 (9-31), one bowl.

That's not to say we won't get better, or can't get better, under Coach Kill. I'm in the camp that believes it will be a process over time and that we'll see progress on the field, then on the recruiting trail (not the other way around), and they'll build off each other.
 

bigtenchamps1899 said:
i think that most minnesota fans are under a skewed impression of exactly where the football program is right now.

Minnesota is about even with indiana as the worst program in the big ten.

being in the big ten is going to attract a certain level of player to commit to the program, but being on the bottom is not going to make minnesota competitive with other BCS schools.

players without connections to minnesota are not going to see the gleaming gem, sleeping giant that most of us see when we wonder why more three and four star players are not committing to the gophers. players with a connection to minnesota are more likely to want to play for the gophers because of that connection, but are just as likely to get stars in their eyes when an actual contender comes calling. not until the gophers start winning games will we be winning any recruiting wars with other BCS teams.

i think minnesota can be turned into a winner. after all, if boise state, tcu, etc. can do it, then all the more can a team with rich history, great facilities, world class city, being in the big ten and no instate competition do it. but it is going to be a process. it is not going to be a one year turnaround kind of thing. the coach that does facilitate the turnaround is going to have to be a alvarez/ferentz kind of coach. they are going to have to recruit mid-level palyers who fit their system, plug them into the system where they fit and then build year after year.

only after getting the gophers back to respectability will the gophers start to be able to lock down the borders. and only after getting back to respectability and locking down the borders will the fans start to get fanatical about the program and fill the stadium every saturday. the gophers will start to make mid-level bowl games and start to win them. when that happens, the gophers will be able to start winning some out of state recruiting battles for players with multiple BCS offers and no connections to the state. and after four or five years of building the gophers will go on a run and surprise some people.

when all that happens, then we as fans can start getting uppity about the kind of recruits that are committing.
Click to expand...

Nicely said with a big dose of reality...but in the meantime, it's more fun getting uppity and contentious about the quality of recruits and other fb stuff until the promised land actually arrives.
 

Gopher07 said:
We're distinctly behind Illinois and Northwestern when it comes to recent successes, I would argue that right now we're no better than 9th, probably 10th because Purdue has one of the most vocal and recognizable faces in the NFL these days in Brees.

Northwestern has gone 34-29 (18-22) in the last five seasons, with three bowl games. Illinois has gone 26-36 (16-24), but has a Rose Bowl appearance. Purdue, 29-34 (16-24), two bowls. Gophers, 23-40 (11-29), three bowl games. Hoosiers 24-37 (9-31), one bowl.

That's not to say we won't get better, or can't get better, under Coach Kill. I'm in the camp that believes it will be a process over time and that we'll see progress on the field, then on the recruiting trail (not the other way around), and they'll build off each other.
Click to expand...
Go back to when Penn State joined the conference and it is real interesting.

Indiana is by far worst.
Illinois is 2nd worst, but I would tend to give them a little bit of an edge over the gophers due to the Rose Bowl and Sugar Bowl seasons.
Purdue and Northwestern are close to the gophers but I would give them the edge for the big ten championship (s).

If you look at 4-5 years Minnesota looks a lot worse than they do if you look at 15-20 years.

To me, it is clear that Indiana is by far the worst.

It is also clear to me if you look at 15 years....that Minnesota, Illinois, Purdue, and Northwestern are all pretty close...the difference being that Illinois is terrible the most often of those four and Minnesota has a breakout season the least often of those four.
 

Rosemountian said:
Go back to when Penn State joined the conference and it is real interesting.

Indiana is by far worst.
Illinois is 2nd worst, but I would tend to give them a little bit of an edge over the gophers due to the Rose Bowl and Sugar Bowl seasons.
Purdue and Northwestern are close to the gophers but I would give them the edge for the big ten championship (s).

If you look at 4-5 years Minnesota looks a lot worse than they do if you look at 15-20 years.

To me, it is clear that Indiana is by far the worst.

It is also clear to me if you look at 15 years....that Minnesota, Illinois, Purdue, and Northwestern are all pretty close...the difference being that Illinois is terrible the most often of those four and Minnesota has a breakout season the least often of those four.
Click to expand...

True, and I'll agree that over a long period we stack up favorably (with the exception of having that "breakout" year, as you mention). But fifteen years is a long time in today's news cycle, and recruits will never remember that far back. Fifteen years ago Bill Clinton was President, there were only 45 million cell phone subscribers in the US, less than 40% of the country used the internet. That's ancient history to kids today.
 

sonnygarcia said:
Weisbrod, how many players with BCS offers has NDSU signed in the last 100 years??? Exactly, please come back on here in Sept when we ass-pound your cute little team.
Click to expand...

NDSU? Where did that come from? I do not follow NDSU football what so ever.
 

Remember there lots of good players out there and a good coach is one that coach's up and not down like Brewster. We heard about all the big Rivals stars and it didn't matter when you get in the games and the ratings don't mean anything. Its all about match ups and making adjustments. The key is to get coachable kids that want to play for this State. Decker, Barber, Spaeth, Setterstrom , Weber to name a few that didn't have any big ratings but wanted to represent the home state. Key is to get the local guys and the Midwest and fill the roster with some out side talent. Brewster tried going down South and then fill with Minnesota kids which didn't work. Kill is on the right track on getting all the kids into camp that want to play here. Juco's , Transfers, walk-ons etc. Look at Nebraska they get 25% of their starters from walk on's that learn the system and they plug them into roles. Give Kill some time to and he will turn it around.
 

Weisbrod said:
According to Rivals, that's the only other school to offer a scholarship to Minnesota signees Maxx Williams, Phillip Nelson, Isaac Fruechte, Scott Ekpe and Josh Ballesteros combined. Just facts.
Click to expand...

A - why would you know that?

B - 100% irrelevant to anything. Let me know in a few years how many wins the team has when these guys are playing.
 

It's not acceptable to go backwards in recruiting. If Kill bring in a class ranked 9-12 in the Big 10, that does not bode well for his tenure here. He's going to have to win with the kids he brings in this year and history shows that bottom of the barrell recruiting classes don't win. That said, I am not sure he's recruiting poorly. Losing McDonald would hurt especially when he was Kill's first major get. Why don't we wait until after the official visits in the fall to see how this class shapes up. So far, we have a CB with a Nebraska offer, a QB who most on the board were excited to land, a Lb from Florida, and DT from Texas...it could easily be spun that the staff is hitting the right areas and landing some kids who can play.
 

EG#9 said:
It's not acceptable to go backwards in recruiting. If Kill bring in a class ranked 9-12 in the Big 10, that does not bode well for his tenure here.
Click to expand...

Kill's tenure has nothing to do with this year's recruiting. It has to do with how the team performs under his direction and the relationships he builds in year one. Pull off an upset or two and beat the teams you should and the Gophers will be on their way. Recruiting will then take care of itself.
 

Weisbrod said:
NDSU? Where did that come from? I do not follow NDSU football what so ever.
Click to expand...

Oh sorry, wrong guy, you're the one everyone on the Bball board thinks is Myron from the Strib (the anonymous name he uses, as opposed as the one he is open with)........ Sounds about right, a sportwriter from the area who tries to flame
 

Rosemountian said:
I would say Minnesota is ahead of Indiana.
I would say Minnesota is basically in a 3 way tie with Purdue and Illinois for spots 11, 10, and 9 with Northwestern being 8....but even northwestern can be in that group.

Indiana is BY FAR the 12th best program in the conference. Look at winning percentages in and out of conference the last 15-20 years. It is not close.

I would put the teams into 5 groups when compared to the nation

I would group the programs
Elite:
Ohio State
Penn State
Nebraska
Michigan (still in here despite recent woes)

2nd level:
Iowa
Wisconsin

3rd level:
Michigan State

4th level:
Northwestern
Illinois
Purdue
Minnesota

Bottom Dwellers:
Indiana (this section basically consists of Indiana, Washington State, Baylor (though baylor is getting better), Vanderbilt, Duke, and non BCS schools)
Click to expand...

Washington State has stunk for a few years now, but they have had some excellent seasons not so long ago. I wouldn't lump them with Duke, Vandy, Baylor and Indiana.
 

I hate quoting the medicine man (Lou Holtz)but here goes:
"you need to win before you get better".
Coach-em-up Jerry!
 

sonnygarcia said:
Funny that the two brainless monkies from the other thread are in agreement in this thread! Absolutely shocking.

And BTW Weisbrod, do you have the smallest clue about how Rivals works? They rely on the player to update their offer list by the player getting in touch with the Rivals recruiting guy and letting them know. Would it be possible that some of the players don't care to do this??? Let's take Max Shortell, one of the top HS passers in the country last year, his offer lists only shows the Gophers because he committed early, stuck with it, and didn't care about calling the Rivals guy to update his "Offer List". We know that Michigan called Shortell and offered him just before signing day but I don't see if listed as an offer on his "Offer List". You really think the Rivals Offer List is a completed list? Also, summer just started, the evaluation period is just getting started, not a lot of offers are even out at this point.
Click to expand...

Not sure how one could come to that conclusion about Max Shortell. He completed 53% of his passes as a senior and he was named honorable mention all conference, meaning the high school coaches in his league felt there were two QB's in his own conference better than him. This is not the resume of one of the "top HS passers in the country last year." Plus, if he was truly as you have stated, why would Kill feel the need to bring in another HS QB this fall?
 

Wins will help....

in regards to who Coach Kill brings in next year. If we go 3-9 I look for a class rated about 9th in the Big Ten. I think the majic number for Coach Kill to have a top 6 or 7 class in the Big Ten would be 7 wins, which would include a signature win. On the bright side I think this staff is much more competent at coaching up then what Coach Brewster had. As far as relating to the MAC, I wouldn't be surprised to see NIU upset Becky at Soldier's Field on September 17th. NIU has virtually there whole team back on offense and ex-Badger ass't coach Dave Doeren as their new coach.
 

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