Western Conference Finals Minnesota Timberwolves vs Oklahoma City Thunder

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Slim Tubby said:
Three (3) of the four (4) remaining teams have an All NBA ball-dominant PG that runs the show and allows their teammates to work freely within the constructs of their offensive schemes:

OKC - Shai
NYK - Brunson
IND - Haliburton

To utilize Ant as our primary guy bringing the ball up the court, it makes it easier for other teams to isolate and double team him and thus reduce is overall impact on our offense.

It also expends a ton of energy for Ant on both sides of the ball making him a less effective player and more prone to errors and turnovers.

The Title drought by our men's pro teams devalue how great of an accomplishment it is to make the WCF's two (2) straight years and the credit goes to Connelly. He really has some tough decisions upcoming to try and get this team over the hump.
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You nailed it.

And when the warriors were winning it, they had Curry!

When Denver won it, Murray was all world.

Again, please be God, Dillingham.
 



Slim Tubby said:
Three (3) of the four (4) remaining teams have an All NBA ball-dominant PG that runs the show and allows their teammates to work freely within the constructs of their offensive schemes:

OKC - Shai
NYK - Brunson
IND - Haliburton

To utilize Ant as our primary guy bringing the ball up the court, it makes it easier for other teams to isolate and double team him and thus reduce his overall impact on our offense.

It also expends a ton of energy for Ant on both sides of the ball making him a less effective player and more prone to errors and turnovers.

The Title drought by our men's pro teams devalue how great of an accomplishment it is to make the WCF's two (2) straight years and the credit goes to Connelly. He really has some tough decisions upcoming to try and get this team over the hump.
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we do know haliburton is #53 in usage in the playoffs right? and 141st in the regular season?

it's actually the part that makes the pacers so fun and refreshing is no one "dominates" the ball and they're in constant flow. He is their closer for sure and adjusts game flow, but he's not ball dominant. The other 2 are the epitome of ball dominant I agree
 



upnorthkid said:
we do know haliburton is #53 in usage in the playoffs right? and 141st in the regular season?

it's actually the part that makes the pacers so fun and refreshing is no one "dominates" the ball and they're in constant flow. He is their closer for sure and adjusts game flow, but he's not ball dominant. The other 2 are the epitome of ball dominant I agree
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I do...but Hali also shares the backcourt with Nembhard, Nesmith, Mathurin, Sheppard and McConnell. This drives down his Usage Rate because of the competency of their backcourt depth.

It's true that not as much is asked of Haliburton compared to SGA and Brunson. It's also true that when it matters most, Haliburton is running the show with the ball in his hands.
 

Souhan: Anthony Edwards and Julius Randle flop in the Timberwolves’ biggest game of the season​


He said he didn’t shoot more because of the Thunder’s defensive approach, which cut off his drives.

He’s never technically wrong when he explains his passivity, but he sometimes misses the point.
These are the games the Wolves need him to lead them to victory.

“They didn’t really let me get too many shots off,” Edwards said. “They did a good job of that. … So big shout-out to them. …

“I don’t look at it like I struggled, or [Randle] struggled — they just had a good game plan."

That sounds reasonable, until you remember that every great NBA player faces difficult defenses and smothering strategies. It’s up to Edwards, and Randle, to solve them.

www.startribune.com

Souhan: Wolves' two stars flop in the biggest game of the season

Anthony Edwards and Julius Randle were outscored by Oklahoma City’s lead duo, Shai Gilgeous-Alexander and Jalen Williams, by 53 points.
www.startribune.com www.startribune.com

Howl Wolves!!
 

Slim Tubby said:
I do...but Hali also shares the backcourt with Nembhard, Nesmith, Mathurin, Sheppard and McConnell. This drives down his Usage Rate because of the competency of their backcourt depth.

It's true that not as much is asked of Haliburton compared to SGA and Brunson. It's also true that when it matters most, Haliburton is running the show with the ball in his hands.
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totally agree. just why I wouldn't call him ball dominant. Clutch time a very different animal and Hali has been a statistical freak this with under 2 min to go, though at the same time he doesn't take that many shots (impressive to stay in the offense versus say Brunson who really forces late), going 11/12 on shots to tie game or take lead this year.

Best thing Hali has done is really crank his turnovers numbers down. some of that is playing against a weaker east, but still is impressive. Its part of what you have to hope Ant can do
 

kg21 said:
You nailed it.

And when the warriors were winning it, they had Curry!

When Denver won it, Murray was all world.

Again, please be God, Dillingham.
Click to expand...
The LAC traded SGA to OKC. SAC traded Haliburton to IND. DAL let Brunson walk for free in FA to sign with the NYK. Crazy stuff.

I haven't seen enough from Dillingham to feel comfortable about him taking over the reins on a championship team. Connelly most likely needs to pull a PG out of his hat.
 



upnorthkid said:
totally agree. just why I wouldn't call him ball dominant. Clutch time a very different animal and Hali has been a statistical freak this with under 2 min to go, though at the same time he doesn't take that many shots (impressive to stay in the offense versus say Brunson who really forces late), going 11/12 on shots to tie game or take lead this year.

Best thing Hali has done is really crank his turnovers numbers down. some of that is playing against a weaker east, but still is impressive. Its part of what you have to hope Ant can do
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Fair enough...I agree that Haliburton certainly isn't as ball dominant and crucial for their team success as the other two (2) guys.
 

kg21 said:
Dort is signed for the next 5 years

Hartenstein is signed for the next 3
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This isn't true as upnorthkid mentioned.

With their current roster they are projected to be at 178 million next season. Chet/Williams are going add 70 million combined to that. Add another 30 million the following season for SGA, with potential Dort/Hartenstein extensions pushing that number even higher.

OKC would quickly be looking at a roster of 300+ million. This year the highest was the Suns at 214 million, with the Wolves 2nd at 202. Next season Boston has the highest projected at 227 million, the following season it's the Cavs at 230 million.

You're looking at OKC becoming the most expensive roster in the league by far in 2-3 years. That's not going to happen. They will lose/move a few guys.
 

Slim Tubby said:
The LAC traded SGA to OKC. SAC traded Haliburton to IND. DAL let Brunson walk for free in FA to sign with the NYK. Crazy stuff.

I haven't seen enough from Dillingham to feel comfortable about him taking over the reins on a championship team. Connelly most likely needs to pull a PG out of his hat.
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Paul George has led to OKCs crazy depth (got both SGA and Williams out of it) and what's happening in Indiana (got Sabonis who turned into Hali)
 

GopherWeatherGuy said:
This isn't true as upnorthkid mentioned.

With their current roster they are projected to be at 178 million next season. Chet/Williams are going add 70 million combined to that. Add another 30 million the following season for SGA, with potential Dort/Hartenstein extensions pushing that number even higher.

OKC would quickly be looking at a roster of 300+ million. This year the highest was the Suns at 214 million, with the Wolves 2nd at 202. Next season Boston has the highest projected at 227 million, the following season it's the Cavs at 230 million.

You're looking at OKC becoming the most expensive roster in the league by far in 2-3 years. That's not going to happen. They will lose/move a few guys.
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they have crazy value on this roster right now

Chet is making 10 and Williams is making 5. They'll both be 30/yr players. Isaiah Joe is making more than both of them.
 



GopherWeatherGuy said:
This isn't true as upnorthkid mentioned.

With their current roster they are projected to be at 178 million next season. Chet/Williams are going add 70 million combined to that. Add another 30 million the following season for SGA, with potential Dort/Hartenstein extensions pushing that number even higher.

OKC would quickly be looking at a roster of 300+ million. This year the highest was the Suns at 214 million, with the Wolves 2nd at 202. Next season Boston has the highest projected at 227 million, the following season it's the Cavs at 230 million.

You're looking at OKC becoming the most expensive roster in the league by far in 2-3 years. That's not going to happen. They will lose/move a few guys.
Click to expand...
Jalen Williams also made the All Pro Third Team which I believe makes him eligible for a Max deal and an extra $15-20M more against the annual team salary cap on his next deal. This is what primarily triggered the end of KAT's run in MIN.
 

upnorthkid said:
they have crazy value on this roster right now

Chet is making 10 and Williams is making 5. They'll both be 30/yr players. Isaiah Joe is making more than both of them.
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Slim Tubby said:
Jalen Williams also made the All Pro Third Team which I believe makes him eligible for a Max deal and an extra $15-20M more against the annual team salary cap on his next deal. This is what primarily triggered the end of KAT's run in MIN.
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Williams is eligible for a five-year, $246 million rookie extension this offseason.

It could increase to $296 million if All-NBA, Most Valuable Player, or Defensive Player of the Year honors are negotiated into the contract.

Chet will probably be somewhere between 30-40 million per year, but Williams will get 40-50 million per year starting after next season.
 

GopherWeatherGuy said:
Williams is eligible for a five-year, $246 million rookie extension this offseason.

It could increase to $296 million if All-NBA, Most Valuable Player, or Defensive Player of the Year honors are negotiated into the contract.

Chet will probably be somewhere between 30-40 million per year, but Williams will get 40-50 million per year starting after next season.
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sorry yes missed my + after the 30
 

GopherWeatherGuy said:
This isn't true as upnorthkid mentioned.

With their current roster they are projected to be at 178 million next season. Chet/Williams are going add 70 million combined to that. Add another 30 million the following season for SGA, with potential Dort/Hartenstein extensions pushing that number even higher.

OKC would quickly be looking at a roster of 300+ million. This year the highest was the Suns at 214 million, with the Wolves 2nd at 202. Next season Boston has the highest projected at 227 million, the following season it's the Cavs at 230 million.

You're looking at OKC becoming the most expensive roster in the league by far in 2-3 years. That's not going to happen. They will lose/move a few guys.
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In 2 to 3 years.

That's what I said. They are good for 2 more years.

This sucks for us.

And if they are winning titles, they will not care about going over in my opinion.
 

kg21 said:
In 2 to 3 years.

That's what I said. They are good for 2 more years.

This sucks for us.

And if they are winning titles, they will not care about going over in my opinion.
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It's not that long though. It starts after next year.

It's not about just going above, you're talking about one of the smallest market teams having far and away the most expensive roster in the league. Not going to happen.
 

kg21 said:
In 2 to 3 years.

That's what I said. They are good for 2 more years.

This sucks for us.

And if they are winning titles, they will not care about going over in my opinion.
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i think we all say this as fans because it makes sense you want to win. every dollar you're over the luxury tax you're paying back (I think it is) 1.50 to the league. If the salaries for those 2 guys are going up that amount, it's costing them an extra 60million in the smallest market and smallest arena in the league plus hitting the 2nd apron restricts your contracts and how you can move for players and can lead to pushing your draft picks (which is a real source of wealth for OKC) to the back of the draft which tanks your ability to keep building and is why windows for teams have gotten a lot shorter before getting blown up.

Chet and Jalen both have 1 year left on their deals and will need to be extended this year which has cascading financial moves. They should be able to entirely run it back next year if they want, but they've always been forward thinking

Problem for us is we're in even more cap hell with way less assets to move around.
 

I'm not inclined to declare or accept this series being over. As good as the Thunder are, the Wolves have shown what they'te capable of. They're also showing how many bolts they need to tighten to be a championship team. There's no better time for that than the present.
 

Bad Gopher said:
I'm not inclined to declare or accept this series being over. As good as the Thunder are, the Wolves have shown what they'te capable of. They're also showing how many bolts they need to tighten to be a championship team. There's no better time for that than the present.
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I'm with you. The odds are against them, but they are not that far off from OKC. It can be done.
 


Games will be decided on the margins. I didn’t like 3 things from this game.

Finch was complaining about calls the entire first half and looked like an a$$. All he did was allow the entire team to complain about calls. That’s a loser attitude and helps you to lose.

Ant has really bad body language the entire first quarter and simply did not give good effort in that quarter.

Randle taking a shot to end the half with 8 left in the half was terrible. There was maybe 3 seconds between the clock and shot clock and he put up a 3 with 8 to go. The wolves were down 3 at that point. He missed, OKC rebounded, and SGA got 2 FT’s to end the half putting the wolves down 5. In a game decided by so little, those small attention to detail plays are huge. Each possession is huge and the wolves just didn’t value offensive or defensive possession enough last night.
 



BleedGopher said:

Souhan: Anthony Edwards and Julius Randle flop in the Timberwolves’ biggest game of the season​


He said he didn’t shoot more because of the Thunder’s defensive approach, which cut off his drives.

He’s never technically wrong when he explains his passivity, but he sometimes misses the point.
These are the games the Wolves need him to lead them to victory.

“They didn’t really let me get too many shots off,” Edwards said. “They did a good job of that. … So big shout-out to them. …

“I don’t look at it like I struggled, or [Randle] struggled — they just had a good game plan."

That sounds reasonable, until you remember that every great NBA player faces difficult defenses and smothering strategies. It’s up to Edwards, and Randle, to solve them.

www.startribune.com

Souhan: Wolves' two stars flop in the biggest game of the season

Anthony Edwards and Julius Randle were outscored by Oklahoma City’s lead duo, Shai Gilgeous-Alexander and Jalen Williams, by 53 points.
www.startribune.com www.startribune.com

Howl Wolves!!
Click to expand...
In a way Ant did solve it. OKC decided that Ant wasn't going to beat them. He had two guys on him at all times on the perimeter and the defense completely collapsed on him in the paint (plus Rudy was in there). DDV, Jaden and NAW were wide open and he found them some of the time. Dort is also a brick. I'd guess he's the best defender in the league. As for Randle, he dribbled too much (as does Ant).

It looked like we played SGA pretty much straight up, only occasionally bringing the second defender. They just have too many weapons.

OKC was really, really focused, the way teams need to be to get a playoff win on the road. Maybe the wolves will have that kind of focus tonight.
 

We lost by 2.

Randle was 1-7 FG (14.3%)
Ant was 5-13 FG (38.5%)

Sure, I can buy that Ant was heavily guarded/limited by their defense. But I saw plenty of solid shot attempts he took that just would not go in.

Super stars make the ball go in the hoop.
 

Also curious what people think on this:

should there be some kind of rule change, with whatever stipulations you want (eg. only late in the game, only if a team is down by 3 or less, etc.) such that a foul outside the 3pt line automatically gives 3 free throw shots?

Blasphemy?
 

GopherGrit said:
Also curious what people think on this:

should there be some kind of rule change, with whatever stipulations you want (eg. only late in the game, only if a team is down by 3 or less, etc.) such that a foul outside the 3pt line automatically gives 3 free throw shots?

Blasphemy?
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Giving 3 free throws doesn't bother me I guess.

Regarding free throws I would like to not shoot them at all during play. I would shoot all free throws at the end of quarters 1-3 and also with five minutes to go in the game. Then the last 5 minutes of the game shoot free throws as they occur.

The beauty of basketball is the action flowing up and down the court, not free throws.
Like hockey, reserve players would then also need to be used more as there would no longer be breaks at the free throw line during game time.

Would be a big improvement imo.
 

The key to ending 4th quarter, end of game fouling, is to implement the Elam Ending. It eliminates all incentives to foul.
 

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