Way-too-early 2022-23 Big Ten basketball power rankings

Gopherfan84

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If you give two to walkons

You gave 13
Correct, but in those cases those rosters have 11 D1 players. I think a lot of people think how Ben is managing and building his roster by only having 11 scholarship guys is rare, but it’s not anymore. It’s more the status quo. Most don’t fill 13 scholarships with high level guys who will contribute. Most find 9-11 playable guys. Ben just didn’t give a scholarship to a walk ons which is smart unless you know for sure they are graduating otherwise your ARP takes a hit.
 

GopherWeatherGuy

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Correct, but in those cases those rosters have 11 D1 players. I think a lot of people think how Ben is managing and building his roster by only having 11 scholarship guys is rare, but it’s not anymore. It’s more the status quo. Most don’t fill 13 scholarships with high level guys who will contribute. Most find 9-11 playable guys. Ben just didn’t give a scholarship to a walk ons which is smart unless you know for sure they are graduating otherwise your ARP takes a hit.

It is true that many teams are only going with 11 players. My problem with doing it here is that 2-3 players are projects, and guys you don't really want to see significant time on the court this year if you're going to be competitive. 2 others are coming off of significant knee injuries. If there are any additional injuries or time missed due to covid, you're right back down to only having 5 or 6 players available, again.
 

Gopherfan84

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It is true that many teams are only going with 11 players. My problem with doing it here is that 2-3 players are projects, and guys you don't really want to see significant time on the court this year if you're going to be competitive. 2 others are coming off of significant knee injuries. If there are any additional injuries or time missed due to covid, you're right back down to only having 5 or 6 players available, again.
Yeah I’d like 9 playable guys. I think we have 8. The ACL injuries don’t scare me as much with advancements in medical advancements and Fox was showing really good explosiveness last spring already. He seems to have already recovered and not really lost anything. I know game action is different so we still will see of course. It’s fair to critique Ben on the roster not being deep enough and he will have to continue to improve or overachieve with this roster (true of any good coach). The main project for me is TT and Henley. I think JOJ is good at the role he would be needed to play (Defensive stopper, energy, 5th scorer). I’m comfortable with him and TT being our 9th or 10th guy. I think Carrington and Payne are already good enough to contribute 15-20 minutes. To take that next step we just will have to continue finding scoring options on the wings and the staff will have to show they can get a group to defend now that the lack of depth thing is not an excuse.
 
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GopherWeatherGuy

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Yeah I’d like 9 playable guys. I think we have 8. The ACL injuries don’t scare me as much with advancements in medical advancements and Fox was showing really good explosiveness last spring already. He seems to have already recovered and not really lost anything. I know game action is different so we still will see of course. It’s fair to critique Ben on the roster not being deep enough and he will have to continue to improve or overachieve with this roster (true of any good coach). The main project for me is TT and Hardy. I think JOJ is good at the role he would be needed to play (Defensive stopper, energy, 5th scorer). I’m comfortable with him and TT being our 9th or 10th guy. I think Carrington and Payne are already good enough to contribute 15-20 minutes. To take that next step we just will have to continue finding scoring options on the wings and the staff will have to show they can get a group to defend now that the lack of depth thing is not an excuse.

I'm assuming you mean Henley and not Hardy, but I agree he, JOJ, and TT are the 2-3 projects I have in mind. We agree on the top 8, although I am not high on Samuels who wasn't very good for a bad Dartmouth team, so I'm not sure why we would expect him to be a big contributor here. Carrington is going to have to play a lot more than 15-20 minutes with our lack of guard depth.

We all hope for the best with the ACL injuries, but we are not far removed from watching multiple knee injuries derail Eric Curry's once very promising career.
 

Dakota2

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It is true that many teams are only going with 11 players. My problem with doing it here is that 2-3 players are projects, and guys you don't really want to see significant time on the court this year if you're going to be competitive. 2 others are coming off of significant knee injuries. If there are any additional injuries or time missed due to covid, you're right back down to only having 5 or 6 players available, again.
Project players are available if needed during the season.
 


Gopherfan84

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I'm assuming you mean Henley and not Hardy, but I agree he, JOJ, and TT are the 2-3 projects I have in mind. We agree on the top 8, although I am not high on Samuels who wasn't very good for a bad Dartmouth team, so I'm not sure why we would expect him to be a big contributor here. Carrington is going to have to play a lot more than 15-20 minutes with our lack of guard depth.

We all hope for the best with the ACL injuries, but we are not far removed from watching multiple knee injuries derail Eric Curry's once very promising career.
Doh! Yeah I meant Henley. I’m fine with Samuels depending on the role/expectation. If he’s playing 10-12 mins and is the 4th/5th option with Garcia and Battle on the floor I’m fine with him as the 8th man. Again not good enough for a B1G winner or top 4, but I think he can be for a top 8-10 team. You’re probably right about Carrington needing to play 25-30 mins vs what I’m comfortable with. Also part of the reason I’m not ready to put us in the top 8 yet, but I think he’s good enough for a top 10 BIG team.
 

60's Guy

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Ahh yes. That plucky draymond green type who was a borderline 5 star with offers from unknown programs like Kentucky. Hard to believe he found a spot as the 36th ranked prospect in the country.
Ya,ya you got a better way to visualize a player who can’t shoot but can provide value in the right role? I promise there are guys available who could contribute with a range of skills. Ya, they probably have a flaw but in the right system it can be minimized.

We got two spots: get a lights out shooter who can’t defend and a lockdown defender who can’t shoot…sub them in and out in offense/defense situations. Among a whole bunch of possibilities versus using volunteers to go 5 on 5 in practice because 2 guys are out.

Just no positive to me in not creating competition among 13 guys who you think can start if they play up to expectations. But it doesn’t happen like that. Kids disappoint, kids totally surprise you. Cover your bets with 13 even if they all stay healthy. Communicate what they need to do to play.
In the last 20 years have we ever had too many good players? Has everyone stayed healthy/eligible? Pitino’s biggest problem was roster management. He had 13 guys but either 5 couldn’t play or he refused to play them. Ben is doing the same thing … just taking a different path to the same result if anybody becomes unavailable.
 

UpAndUnder43

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Ya,ya you got a better way to visualize a player who can’t shoot but can provide value in the right role? I promise there are guys available who could contribute with a range of skills. Ya, they probably have a flaw but in the right system it can be minimized.

We got two spots: get a lights out shooter who can’t defend and a lockdown defender who can’t shoot…sub them in and out in offense/defense situations. Among a whole bunch of possibilities versus using volunteers to go 5 on 5 in practice because 2 guys are out.

Just no positive to me in not creating competition among 13 guys who you think can start if they play up to expectations. But it doesn’t happen like that. Kids disappoint, kids totally surprise you. Cover your bets with 13 even if they all stay healthy. Communicate what they need to do to play.
In the last 20 years have we ever had too many good players? Has everyone stayed healthy/eligible? Pitino’s biggest problem was roster management. He had 13 guys but either 5 couldn’t play or he refused to play them. Ben is doing the same thing … just taking a different path to the same result if anybody becomes unavailable.
I completely agree that they should have filled those spots. It’s lazy and passive to not. But lights out shooters don’t just sit around. They get recruited. Same with lockdown defenders.
 

Chico Gopher

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Some day, we will have a roster of 13 players who are, at least, All Big-10 Honorable Mention caliber players. Of those 13, 5-6 of them will be completely content with between 1 and 15 minutes of playing time per game, because they're team first guys who care about the program first and themselves second.

Oops, the alarm just went off and realized I was having a great dream! :)
 



short ornery norwegian

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Some day, we will have a roster of 13 players who are, at least, All Big-10 Honorable Mention caliber players. Of those 13, 5-6 of them will be completely content with between 1 and 15 minutes of playing time per game, because they're team first guys who care about the program first and themselves second.

Oops, the alarm just went off and realized I was having a great dream! :)

to follow up - that type is situation is possible - I say possible - IF you are talking about a team that has a legitimate chance to win a national title.

a really good player may be willing to accept less playing time IF they're on a team that plays on national TV every game and will be a very high seed in the NCAA tournament.

But, would a player of that caliber accept the same deal for a program like MN? No freakin' way.

and we have a perfect example: Dawson Garcia was coming off the bench at North Carolina. Dawson Garcia is not coming to MN to be a bench player.

like it or not, as things presently stand, the type of player who is willing to be the 12th or 13th scholarship player at MN is not going to be a game-changer.

speaking for myself, if I was looking at a choice of being the 13th guy at MN, or starting at a lower-level school, I'd rather be starting and playing as opposed to sitting on the bench as an insurance policy just in case 2 or 3 other guys get injured.
 

CoMn

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And which All Big Ten players were available? Just asking for a friend, he’s not sure who you might be talking about?
There might not be any All Big Ten players but there are a lot of players in the portal with no teams to go to as the party winds down. At this point you could probably get some depth for a player who is happy just to have a scholarship again.
 

CoMn

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I like Ben Johnson a lot but I really hate that he isn't giving those last two scholarships to graduate transfers....there is no risk....they remain open for next year, it protects you from injuries...it makes practice easier when you have some more bodies around. There must be many more good reasons because nearly every other coach uses all 13...
 

Spaulding!No!

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I like Ben Johnson a lot but I really hate that he isn't giving those last two scholarships to graduate transfers....there is no risk....they remain open for next year, it protects you from injuries...it makes practice easier when you have some more bodies around. There must be many more good reasons because nearly every other coach uses all 13...
Ben is waitin for them to call him.
 



Johnnyboy18

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I like Ben Johnson a lot but I really hate that he isn't giving those last two scholarships to graduate transfers....there is no risk....they remain open for next year, it protects you from injuries...it makes practice easier when you have some more bodies around. There must be many more good reasons because nearly every other coach uses all 13...
Maryland 13
Wisconsin 11
MSU 10
Ohio State 13
Iowa 11

Found those in like 2 minutes. Don't think the situation is unique.
 

Gopherfan84

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to follow up - that type is situation is possible - I say possible - IF you are talking about a team that has a legitimate chance to win a national title.

a really good player may be willing to accept less playing time IF they're on a team that plays on national TV every game and will be a very high seed in the NCAA tournament.

But, would a player of that caliber accept the same deal for a program like MN? No freakin' way.

and we have a perfect example: Dawson Garcia was coming off the bench at North Carolina. Dawson Garcia is not coming to MN to be a bench player.

like it or not, as things presently stand, the type of player who is willing to be the 12th or 13th scholarship player at MN is not going to be a game-changer.

speaking for myself, if I was looking at a choice of being the 13th guy at MN, or starting at a lower-level school, I'd rather be starting and playing as opposed to sitting on the bench as an insurance policy just in case 2 or 3 other guys get injured.
Dawson left because of family issues, but the bball situation wasn’t good. He went to UNC to start. Manek outplayed him and took his minutes and he left.
 

Gopherfan84

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I like Ben Johnson a lot but I really hate that he isn't giving those last two scholarships to graduate transfers....there is no risk....they remain open for next year, it protects you from injuries...it makes practice easier when you have some more bodies around. There must be many more good reasons because nearly every other coach uses all 13...
This is not true. Teams that use all 13 are giving a couple of token ones to walk ons who will graduate. Banking scholarships has been happening for a long time now. They used that term so people would calm down about them not being filled.

The risk is they don’t want to be here and be good teammates when they don’t get playing time. There are not a ton of guys willing to come be a grad transfer and not play.
 




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