Was firing Richard Pitino a panic move?

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We hired the wrong Pitino.

If anything, hiring Johnson was the panic move.

OMG! We can’t recruit Minnesota kids! We need someone who is creditable with the Minnesota basketball scene!

How many Minnesota kids in our latest signing class? Oh yeah, zero.

And remember, that’s not a bad thing at all.
 


roadrunner said:
Hindsight, as they say, is 20/20, but let's look at Richard Pitino's accomplishments...
In 8 years at Minnesota, his teams had a .534 win pct, were ranked 24th, 12th and 16th in the country, won an NIT and made 2 NCAA tournaments. In 2 years at the outpost New Mexico, his teams have a .574 win pct, are ranked 21st in the country, and are currently 14-1.
More and more, a coach like Richard Pitino is looking like something to which to aspire.
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Welcome to the board!!

Obviously a newbie who missed many years of discussions about his firing and when it should/should have taken place.
 
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golfing18now said:
No. Even as a big fan of Richard Pitino the person, I finally had to acknowledge that keeping him on beyond 8 years would send a signal to your fanbase that winning conference games at a 35% clip in a half empty arena and 1 one tournament win in 8 years would be good enough for this program. Think Northwestern.

However, by hiring a guy with no head coaching experience that hasn't even really sat on the bench of a winning program, you have sent a signal to your fanbase that winning conference games at a 35% clip in a half empty arena and 2 tournament wins in 25 years IS good enough for this program. Frustrating.
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Sad but true.
 


roadrunner said:
Can we at least admit Pitino knew how to find guards? Nate Mason, Dupree McBrayer, Amir Coffee, Isaiah Washington, Marcus Carr, Payton Willis, and Jamal Mashburn would all be standouts on this year's team.
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Yes. We can agree on that. He did a nice job of developing guards and clearly understood that college basketball is a guard driven reality. Local ball people didn’t like him and as Bad said, that was the final foot of his six foot grave.
 


DanvilleGopher said:
Welcome to the board!!

Obviously a newbie who missed many years of discussions about his firing and when it should/should have taken place.
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Actually, I've been here under a different name for years so...you are mistaken.
 




SelectionSunday said:
I'll answer.

No, it was not a panic move. It was time.

I like Richard Pitino and will pull for him to do great at New Mexico.

Both things can be true.
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I'm seeing a lot of false dichotomies on the boards these days. If premise A is true than B cannot be true even if they have nothing to do with each other. Kind of amazing to me. The firing of Pitino and the hiring of Ben are only related in that Ben could not have been hired if Pitino were not fired. He did not HAVE to be hired because Pitino was fired. The firing and the hiring are two completely separate events.
 


roadrunner said:
Hindsight, as they say, is 20/20, but let's look at Richard Pitino's accomplishments...
In 8 years at Minnesota, his teams had a .534 win pct, were ranked 24th, 12th and 16th in the country, won an NIT and made 2 NCAA tournaments. In 2 years at the outpost New Mexico, his teams have a .574 win pct, are ranked 21st in the country, and are currently 14-1.
More and more, a coach like Richard Pitino is looking like something to which to aspire.
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Bob assures us that everyone on here realizes were rebuilding.

But I'm seeing meltdowns game by game. Calls for Pitino to return.

My suggestion to you is to take a step back and monitor the progress by the box scores. Don't watch the games and get all riled up.
 

Otis said:
We hired the wrong Pitino.

If anything, hiring Johnson was the panic move.

OMG! We can’t recruit Minnesota kids! We need someone who is creditable with the Minnesota basketball scene!

How many Minnesota kids in our latest signing class? Oh yeah, zero.

And remember, that’s not a bad thing at all.
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9/14 current players are from Minnesota
 



It was time to move on. He had a couple of good moments but wasn't the answer here. Might just be the case he's better as a mid-major coach.

At FIU he led the team to its first winning season in more than a decade. He seems to be righting the ship at New Mexico. Seems to be able to coach fairly well, just not at the Big Ten level.
 


Holy Man said:
I'm seeing a lot of false dichotomies on the boards these days. If premise A is true than B cannot be true even if they have nothing to do with each other. Kind of amazing to me. The firing of Pitino and the hiring of Ben are only related in that Ben could not have been hired if Pitino were not fired. He did not HAVE to be hired because Pitino was fired. The firing and the hiring are two completely separate events.
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What's that line from the Hold Steady song about everyone liking a comeback story? Even if Bill Belichick rubs you the wrong way, you have to appreciate him bouncing back from his Cleveland experience, figuring some things out, and getting back on the right track somewhere else.

I always thought Richard had great potential, but he played too many of his hands out the wrong way and, in the process, lost the confidence of just about everyone around here.
 

Nope, not a panic move. Didn't get it done here.

I have seen New Mexico play three times this year already, and there are small clues to suggest he's learning from past mistakes...

1) Guards are still ball-dominant, but nothing close to Gopher Marcus Carr ball-dominant. While House and Mashburn are taking the most shots on the team, there's a lot of passing and moving around on offense. The offense looks good.
2) He's getting the bigs in better spots to score. Udeze is nothing special (I don't mean that negatively) and doesn't hold a candle to Oturu, but he's out-of-nowhere averaging a career high 16 points a game because the offense is getting him the ball in advantageous spots.
3) He has a really nice five guard rotation, with two of them coming off the bench that bring a legit scoring punch.
4) Haven't seen him yank players immediately after a bad play, even the younger players.

I wish him the best of luck and hope he gets to the NCAA tournament this year.
 
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Bad Gopher said:
What's that line from the Hold Steady song about everyone liking a comeback story? Even if Bill Belichick rubs you the wrong way, you have to appreciate him bouncing back from his Cleveland experience, figuring some things out, and getting back on the right track somewhere else.

I always thought Richard had great potential, but he played too many of his hands out the wrong way and, in the process, lost the confidence of just about everyone around here.
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Too many early recruiting mistakes and not a definitive identity. The two guards he has in Albuquerque are as close to his vision as we have ever seen, mimicking Papa at Louisville. He should have started at a lower level for a longer prep period.
 

Holy Man said:
Too many early recruiting mistakes and not a definitive identity. The two guards he has in Albuquerque are as close to his vision as we have ever seen, mimicking Papa at Louisville. He should have started at a lower level for a longer prep period.
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I've posted this before, but I'll say it again. I saw a film about Notre Dame football, and they interviewed Ara Parseghian. He said that every experience he'd had in his years prior to taking that job was instrumental to his ability to do that job. I do believe that's true of any high-major job in a tough conference. Sure there may be some prodigies that can perform at a high level without much experience, but they're so rare that they're the exceptions that prove the rule. Both Richard and Ben were hired based on the hope that they were or would be prodigies. That's like hoping to hit a single number on a roulette wheel with your entire bankroll.
 



Dumb question. How can firing someone after 8 years be a "panic" move? He had 9 lives as it is.

-He'd have been out after 2015-16 but we didn't have an AD.

-He'd have been out after 2019-20 if not for Covid.

-And he would have been out in 2018-2019 if he hadn't gone on a late run and made the tournament (and we might well have Musselman as our coach ):(
 

To be clear, I'm not dismissing Ben Johnson. He may well turn out to be a good hire. I just don't understand the Pitino Derangement Syndrome. His record was respectable for Minnesota and he seemed like a good person as well.
 

MNJay said:
Bob assures us that everyone on here realizes were rebuilding.

But I'm seeing meltdowns game by game. Calls for Pitino to return.

My suggestion to you is to take a step back and monitor the progress by the box scores. Don't watch the games and get all riled up.
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To be fair...I am now starting to see some posts about redistributing the minutes and giving more to the freshmen.
 

roadrunner said:
To be clear, I'm not dismissing Ben Johnson. He may well turn out to be a good hire. I just don't understand the Pitino Derangement Syndrome. His record was respectable for Minnesota and he seemed like a good person as well.
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He was a good guy. No his record was not respectable. He didn't win enough games. Simple as that. I don't think anyone was "deranged" about him.
 
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MNJay said:
Bob assures us that everyone on here realizes were rebuilding.

But I'm seeing meltdowns game by game. Calls for Pitino to return.

My suggestion to you is to take a step back and monitor the progress by the box scores. Don't watch the games and get all riled up.
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Who is calling for Pitino to return? No one. I see multiple opinions about why he needed to go, and a few admiring current success at Albuquerque. No one wants him back.

Box scores never tell us the whole story.
 

roadrunner said:
To be clear, I'm not dismissing Ben Johnson. He may well turn out to be a good hire. I just don't understand the Pitino Derangement Syndrome. His record was respectable for Minnesota and he seemed like a good person as well.
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I don't think about Pitino much anymore (I hope he does well at New Mexico, I liked the guy as a person), but his record was not close to respectable. His conference winning percentage was .360. That is significantly lower than Tubby Smith (.426) and Dan Monson (.393), and both of those guys were also fired for poor performance. He missed the NCAA and NIT in 5 of 8 years (2020, postseason was cancelled, but his 4-14 conference record that season wasn't getting us there). He has a losing conference record in 7 of 8 seasons. His results were objectively awful.
 

bleedsmaroonandgold said:
I don't think about Pitino much anymore (I hope he does well at New Mexico, I liked the guy as a person), but his record was not close to respectable. His conference winning percentage was .360. That is significantly lower than Tubby Smith (.426) and Dan Monson (.393), and both of those guys were also fired for poor performance. He missed the NCAA and NIT in 5 of 8 years (2020, postseason was cancelled, but his 4-14 conference record that season wasn't getting us there). He has a losing conference record in 7 of 8 seasons. His results were objectively awful.
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I've caught a few games on CBSSN or FS1 where the Mountain West games reside. He fits nicely in the Mountain West where the play isn't so rugged and physical like the B1G. Someone compared him to Steve Alford who also was successful in the MW, but not in the B1G, nor in the PAC12. In the MW he can play teams that are solid, but not elite, and compete. Good for him, but there was enough time here to see that it wasn't working.
Will Ben get the same opportunity here? Not if he has 3 strait bottom dweller seasons. Ben has to show solid progress this year in development. Next year that development must result in at least an NIT invitation. If he cannot get to that level, it will be hard for him to keep his job.
Next year, NIT at minimum.
2024-25, make the Dance.
 

It's not that Pitino couldn't coach, but he needed to be fired. It was ground hog day every year. Tease us with potential or promise and a Top 25 ranking most every season only to implode annually. Somebody gets hurt, suspended or isn't available and we spiral in the wrong direction...every year. 8 chances was probably a couple too many.

The problem was in the hiring. There were many more qualified candidates to be hired. We gambled on an inexperienced local guy who checked the administration boxes.
 

Holy Man said:
Who is calling for Pitino to return? No one. I see multiple opinions about why he needed to go, and a few admiring current success at Albuquerque. No one wants him back.

Box scores never tell us the whole story.
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Oh sure, technically the exact words "I am calling for Pitino to return" haven't been written here. Or "I am calling for Dennis Gates" or "I am calling for Ben to be fired".

But this headline, the Gates headline, the 'Ben is a disaster' headline, etc., etc., etc....you guys want to have your cake and eat it too. Blast Ben daily but still claim you know it's a rebuild.
 

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