Viramontes transferring

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Bob_Loblaw said:
Why are you doing this kind of mental gymnastics - did we offer Annexstad a scholarship? Is he on scholarship? No. He is a walk-on QB.

He might be P5 scholarship worthy, a lot of walk-ons turn out to be, but he is not on scholarship. This is reality.

I know you're obsessed with bringing up the previous regime. You can blame them if you'd like. But now Fleck has had two recruiting classes to address a dumpster fire of a QB position (Kill and Claeys fault) and he made it worse (PJ's fault).

Maybe things will work out with Annexstand and Morgan and they are ready right now and stay healthy. Hopefully that is what happens, but if you can't see that this was a horrible management of the most important position on the team, there is really no point in ever having any sort of debate with you until PJ is gone.
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How did he make it worse if Morgan and Annexstad end up both being better than anyone we saw recruited by Kill or Claeys?

JUCOs are always going to be a gamble. Would you feel that much better about our QB position this year if we had another true freshman scholarship player, and a QB depth chart of RS FR, FR, FR? I wouldn't, and that's squarely on the previous regime for not recruiting any upperclassmen talent at the QB position.
 

WHB Brewer said:
Omg.... if the staff is calling plays worried about injury, why was Rodney on the field in the scenario above? Who us his backup?

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk
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To you, kisarazu & upnorthkid, I brought up those things as to why I disagree with what SON said. Having 1 scholarship QB and 1 PWO and two others who didn't see the light of day at the spring game, will limit our offense this season.
Are you all forgetting the Maryland game last year? CR had multiple occasions in which he could have run with the ball but didn't. After the game PJ said that they had instructed him not to run because they didn't want to risk injury. So now, this coming season with the lack of depth AND experience at QB, the three of you think things will be different? I would say there is a 99.9999% chance that they will instruct either Morgan or Annexstad to do exactly what they instructed Rhoda only it will be an even more cautious approach. That will limit what the offense can do.
 

BarnBurner said:
Spot on. Gwg will not admit pj has not succeeded in qb recruitment.
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Yes, PJ is failing severely in the QB stars rating game. As for the grading that actually matters which is on field performance, not sure how you place a grade on that after 2 years.
 

upnorthkid said:
If you’re calling plays expecting a guy to get injured or worried about it, you are coaching scared and should not be coaching power 5 college football. It’s the same idea with a team like Texas a & m with Manziel. Do you think they had a backup who could do what he did? Did it look like it stopped Sumlin from calling the plays? You coach to win the game, not with fear of a possible injury in your head
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I agree with this 100%. Good thing no Gopher coach has ever done this. It's a more fireable offense than poor ticket sales and recruiting a class that isn't highly regarded in the Internet era.
 

GoldenUMNGopher said:
Yes, PJ is failing severely in the QB stars rating game. As for the grading that actually matters which is on field performance, not sure how you place a grade on that after 2 years.
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to use Fleck's own lexicon. PJ is failing at procuring a BCS quarterback but he is not a failure at procuring a QB.

Who would have thought the Phillip Nelson fiasco would have been such a gut punch to the U Of M football program...well maybe Phillip Nelson but we are still feeling the effects. Kill had no time for players who felt they were bigger than the program. If Kill could have used his players to play in the MAC he would have gone 13-1 just like PJ did.
 


Right now, we don't have a whole lot of track record to attract higher rated QBs here. Morgan and Annexstad must show that the RPO offense works and start winning games. The defense matter also to QBs for a whole slew of reasons.

Until then, we are going to get passed on by higher rated QBs. Patterson at TCU showed Duggan some TCU math. PJ Fleck came up short when compared to the Horny Frog enough to convince him that TCU is the promised land to the NFL.

There is no crying in D1 Football. Start winning baby, and they will come!
 

Bob_Loblaw said:
Why are you doing this kind of mental gymnastics - did we offer Annexstad a scholarship? Is he on scholarship? No. He is a walk-on QB.

He might be P5 scholarship worthy, a lot of walk-ons turn out to be, but he is not on scholarship. This is reality.

I know you're obsessed with bringing up the previous regime. You can blame them if you'd like. But now Fleck has had two recruiting classes to address a dumpster fire of a QB position (Kill and Claeys fault) and he made it worse (PJ's fault).

Maybe things will work out with Annexstand and Morgan and they are ready right now and stay healthy. Hopefully that is what happens, but if you can't see that this was a horrible management of the most important position on the team, there is really no point in ever having any sort of debate with you until PJ is gone.
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I hope PJ offers Annexstad a scholarship. That will immediately make him a better quarterback.
 

GopherWeatherGuy said:
How did he make it worse if Morgan and Annexstad end up both being better than anyone we saw recruited by Kill or Claeys?

JUCOs are always going to be a gamble. Would you feel that much better about our QB position this year if we had another true freshman scholarship player, and a QB depth chart of RS FR, FR, FR? I wouldn't, and that's squarely on the previous regime for not recruiting any upperclassmen talent at the QB position.
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I’m with GWG on this.
Let’s see what the young guys can do and hope we can land another solid QB in addition to Kramer. The Wide Receiver position will hopefully be better this season as well as the OL.
The offense going into 2018 was really in rough shape at every position group except running back.
 

GFBfan said:
To you, kisarazu & upnorthkid, I brought up those things as to why I disagree with what SON said. Having 1 scholarship QB and 1 PWO and two others who didn't see the light of day at the spring game, will limit our offense this season.
Are you all forgetting the Maryland game last year? CR had multiple occasions in which he could have run with the ball but didn't. After the game PJ said that they had instructed him not to run because they didn't want to risk injury. So now, this coming season with the lack of depth AND experience at QB, the three of you think things will be different? I would say there is a 99.9999% chance that they will instruct either Morgan or Annexstad to do exactly what they instructed Rhoda only it will be an even more cautious approach. That will limit what the offense can do.
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This is correct as the coach said as much. Whether one agrees with that philosophy is another story. IIRC Leidner’s running was dialed back for a time in 2015 due to number of hits and already being half-hobbled and probably lack of faith in the backups.
 



hungan1 said:
Right now, we don't have a whole lot of track record to attract higher rated QBs here. Morgan and Annexstad must show that the RPO offense works and start winning games. The defense matter also to QBs for a whole slew of reasons.

Until then, we are going to get passed on by higher rated QBs. Patterson at TCU showed Duggan some TCU math. PJ Fleck came up short when compared to the Horny Frog enough to convince him that TCU is the promised land to the NFL.

There is no crying in D1 Football. Start winning baby, and they will come!
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I think any opposing recruiter simply had to show a roll of the receiver corps last year, the lack of protection for Croft and it would be effective propaganda. Like with Kill we may need to improve in increments and the better recruits will eventually come. It’s never a bad idea to shoot for the top 10QB stars but there has to be a viable plan B and C at QB.
 

Pompous Elitist said:
This is correct as the coach said as much. Whether one agrees with that philosophy is another story. IIRC Leidner’s running was dialed back for a time in 2015 due to number of hits and already being half-hobbled and probably lack of faith in the backups.
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Frankly if that’s the strategy and that’s truly what went down (rather than a coach throwing out some coach speak) and they continue to do this at the expense of winning games, then PJ will be canned within a few years. You call the plays you need to to win. And again personally, that’s one of the few things I’ve held against PJ is his acting like losing now doesn’t matter and it’s all about the culture. Now I’m a PJ optimist and hopeful he can get us to the next level, but that’s some bs.
 


GopherWeatherGuy said:
How did he make it worse if Morgan and Annexstad end up both being better than anyone we saw recruited by Kill or Claeys?

JUCOs are always going to be a gamble. Would you feel that much better about our QB position this year if we had another true freshman scholarship player, and a QB depth chart of RS FR, FR, FR? I wouldn't, and that's squarely on the previous regime for not recruiting any upperclassmen talent at the QB position.
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He made it worse because we have absolutely no depth. We literally have 1 scholarship QB, that's an historic lack of depth. Morgan and Annexstad both seemed pretty talented in the spring game, and I wouldn't be surprised if one/both of them has a solid career at the U. The problem is that they not only need to develop properly (so far on the right track), but we also need a tremendous amount of luck in terms of health, future recruiting, etc. Our QB position, THIS YEAR, is somehow worse than it was last year.

As far as the lack of depth at the QB position, yeah, I agree, some of that is on Claeys.

I would feel better if Green was still at QB and we had another FR scholarship QB. We all talk about balancing classes, it would be nice if the class that is RSing this year had a QB, no? That's a bad thing?

Get this, there was also another alternative, we could have not swung and missed on VV. That miss hurt.

It hurt when the previous staff missed on DRM, Croft, Parish. It hurt when PJ missed on VV.

I get it, balancing classes no longer matters, player retention doesn't matter, depth doesn't matter, and when PJ misses on a recruit, it's outside of his control. The misses from other staffs, that's the root cause of all of this.
 



Bob_Loblaw said:
He made it worse because we have absolutely no depth. We literally have 1 scholarship QB, that's an historic lack of depth. Morgan and Annexstad both seemed pretty talented in the spring game, and I wouldn't be surprised if one/both of them has a solid career at the U. The problem is that they not only need to develop properly (so far on the right track), but we also need a tremendous amount of luck in terms of health, future recruiting, etc. Our QB position, THIS YEAR, is somehow worse than it was last year.

As far as the lack of depth at the QB position, yeah, I agree, some of that is on Claeys.

I would feel better if Green was still at QB and we had another FR scholarship QB. We all talk about balancing classes, it would be nice if the class that is RSing this year had a QB, no? That's a bad thing?

Get this, there was also another alternative, we could have not swung and missed on VV. That miss hurt.

It hurt when the previous staff missed on DRM, Croft, Parish. It hurt when PJ missed on VV.

I get it, balancing classes no longer matters, player retention doesn't matter, depth doesn't matter, and when PJ misses on a recruit, it's outside of his control. The misses from other staffs, that's the root cause of all of this.
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I think that I'll wait to actually watch the games in 2018 before declaring this...
 

John Galt said:
I think that I'll wait to actually watch the games in 2018 before declaring this...
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Me too....

I have a sneaky suspicion that this year's 2 unproven "never thrown a D1 pass" QBs will outperform last year's 2 unproven "thrown a couple of D1 passes" QBs. And I mean out perform in a major ass kicking kind of way!....

I hope I am pleasantly surprised, and for now all I can do is an impatiently toe tapping kind of waiting...
 


Bob_Loblaw said:
I get it, balancing classes no longer matters, player retention doesn't matter, depth doesn't matter, and when PJ misses on a recruit, it's outside of his control. The misses from other staffs, that's the root cause of all of this.
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Man, you're really shouting into the wind here. Here are your declarative statements as you simmer and stew at some of these posters:

"Balancing classes no longer matters." Absolutely no one is saying that. Many of us have brought up that it's unfortunate that Annexstad and Morgan will probably be in the same class.

"Player retention doesn't matter." Who's saying that? Most level-headed people, however, are pointing out that transferring is part of the landscape of college football. Unfortunate, but if you're caught flabbergasted by this then you're simply naive or living in a bygone era. Please show us all the P5 teams that had no transfers or other roster turnover this offseason.

"Depth doesn't matter." Again, please provide a link or some other evidence that someone has said this.

"When PJ misses on a recruit, it's outside of his control." My position has always been that Viramontes may have developed into a competent backup or a competent starter - we have no way of knowing. Either one would not have been a "miss". If every scholarship player who doesn't become a starter is labeled a miss, then every college roster is made up mostly of misses. If you're calling Viramontes a miss because he transferred, you could certainly make the claim that it was a bad fit and that's something the staff should have foreseen, I guess.

"The misses from other staffs, that's the root cause of all of this." Ridiculous hyperbole, but I think you know that.

I'm excited about the upcoming season. Then again, I'm always excited about the upcoming season. Call me a cockeyed optimist.
 


Urbandale said:
Man, you're really shouting into the wind here. Here are your declarative statements as you simmer and stew at some of these posters:

"Balancing classes no longer matters." Absolutely no one is saying that. Many of us have brought up that it's unfortunate that Annexstad and Morgan will probably be in the same class.

"Player retention doesn't matter." Who's saying that? Most level-headed people, however, are pointing out that transferring is part of the landscape of college football. Unfortunate, but if you're caught flabbergasted by this then you're simply naive or living in a bygone era. Please show us all the P5 teams that had no transfers or other roster turnover this offseason.

"Depth doesn't matter." Again, please provide a link or some other evidence that someone has said this.

"When PJ misses on a recruit, it's outside of his control." My position has always been that Viramontes may have developed into a competent backup or a competent starter - we have no way of knowing. Either one would not have been a "miss". If every scholarship player who doesn't become a starter is labeled a miss, then every college roster is made up mostly of misses. If you're calling Viramontes a miss because he transferred, you could certainly make the claim that it was a bad fit and that's something the staff should have foreseen, I guess.

"The misses from other staffs, that's the root cause of all of this." Ridiculous hyperbole, but I think you know that.

I'm excited about the upcoming season. Then again, I'm always excited about the upcoming season. Call me a cockeyed optimist.
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No mention of anger. Hmmmm
 

Urbandale said:
Man, you're really shouting into the wind here. Here are your declarative statements as you simmer and stew at some of these posters:

"Balancing classes no longer matters." Absolutely no one is saying that. Many of us have brought up that it's unfortunate that Annexstad and Morgan will probably be in the same class.

"Player retention doesn't matter." Who's saying that? Most level-headed people, however, are pointing out that transferring is part of the landscape of college football. Unfortunate, but if you're caught flabbergasted by this then you're simply naive or living in a bygone era. Please show us all the P5 teams that had no transfers or other roster turnover this offseason.

"Depth doesn't matter." Again, please provide a link or some other evidence that someone has said this.

"When PJ misses on a recruit, it's outside of his control." My position has always been that Viramontes may have developed into a competent backup or a competent starter - we have no way of knowing. Either one would not have been a "miss". If every scholarship player who doesn't become a starter is labeled a miss, then every college roster is made up mostly of misses. If you're calling Viramontes a miss because he transferred, you could certainly make the claim that it was a bad fit and that's something the staff should have foreseen, I guess.

"The misses from other staffs, that's the root cause of all of this." Ridiculous hyperbole, but I think you know that.

I'm excited about the upcoming season. Then again, I'm always excited about the upcoming season. Call me a cockeyed optimist.
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If it makes you feel better to think I'm simmering about this, please go right ahead. I'm merely pointing out a problem. I expected a backlash on this board from it, but seriously not upset. Please stick with the discussion rather than attempt to predict the emotional state of the person with whom you disagree, it's really not part of the discussion and you couldn't be further from the truth.

As to the actual discussion:

(1) Balancing classes no longer matters - This statement is directly tied to my point that our QB situation stinks, even if Morgan/Annexstad perform well for Freshman. So when I was asked why I thought the QB situation was worse now, it's because we went from having a SR, SO, FR, RS to two FR QBs. Our class balance stinks. I'm pretty surprised I had to spell that out for you.

(2) Player retention doesn't matter - Please see the Vic thread. You'll see plenty of apologists dancing around this idea.

(3) Depth doesn't matter - I believe I quoted someone on this thread who said that if they aren't starters, he doesn't care. It's hard to really argue that he isn't making the claim that depth doesn't matter.

(4) "When PJ misses on a recruit, it's outside of his control." - We have a coach who inherited a terrible QB situation and his only scholarship QB from his first full class transfers out by June 1st and you cautiously concede that I could claim that as a miss, you guess? LOL. Ok.

(5) You got one half correct. Yes, that last statement was hyperbole. However, this board has gotten so out of touch that it's certainly not far off from several claims on these threads (see your response to number 4).
 



I think SON needs a cold shower tonight.
 



Bob_Loblaw said:
If it makes you feel better to think I'm simmering about this, please go right ahead. I'm merely pointing out a problem. I expected a backlash on this board from it, but seriously not upset. Please stick with the discussion rather than attempt to predict the emotional state of the person with whom you disagree, it's really not part of the discussion and you couldn't be further from the truth.

As to the actual discussion:

(1) Balancing classes no longer matters - This statement is directly tied to my point that our QB situation stinks, even if Morgan/Annexstad perform well for Freshman. So when I was asked why I thought the QB situation was worse now, it's because we went from having a SR, SO, FR, RS to two FR QBs. Our class balance stinks. I'm pretty surprised I had to spell that out for you.

(2) Player retention doesn't matter - Please see the Vic thread. You'll see plenty of apologists dancing around this idea.

(3) Depth doesn't matter - I believe I quoted someone on this thread who said that if they aren't starters, he doesn't care. It's hard to really argue that he isn't making the claim that depth doesn't matter.

(4) "When PJ misses on a recruit, it's outside of his control." - We have a coach who inherited a terrible QB situation and his only scholarship QB from his first full class transfers out by June 1st and you cautiously concede that I could claim that as a miss, you guess? LOL. Ok.

(5) You got one half correct. Yes, that last statement was hyperbole. However, this board has gotten so out of touch that it's certainly not far off from several claims on these threads (see your response to number 4).
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Both points that were previously explained to dale. Dale having issues with comprehension. Or blatantly lying.
 

Maverick said:
Oh please share the "how to use sarcasm correctly" instructions...
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We can give it a try if you'd really like.

The key is that you want to sort of be ironically mocking a point I was making. If your attempt to do so misses the entire point, you failed (see your post).

For instance, if I was saying "Annexstad stinks, he's only a walk-on" or anything like that, you would have correctly used sarcasm.

So, let's say I would have responded to your post by saying "that's a great use of sarcasm!" Now, that would have been a proper use of sarcasm. I would have been mocking your point (that you were being sarcastic), by calling it great, when it clearly was not.

The key is that it sort of has to be tethered to an actual point/argument, that's where the irony is created.
 

There are some cheap motels around town...
 



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