VCU and Wichita - better jobs than UMN?

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TCF=UnitedWeStand

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Judd and Mackey claiming both jobs are better because Shaka and Marshall both said "no" to the Gophers - that's the proof. To me, that's not really fair - both guys have their programs rolling. It would take a pretty special job to get anyone to leave a situation like that. And both guys are basically Gods at their current schools - wouldn't be the case for anybody that would replace them.

But to me, the UMN wins out on location, academics, conference, revenue potential, recruiting base, recruiting competition (the next nearest Power 5 school is four+ hours away - WI), etc.

It loses on current roster and facilities, but shovels are supposedly going in the ground this fall.

Am I just being a total homer here?
 

TCF=UnitedWeStand said:
Judd and Mackey claiming both jobs are better because Shaka and Marshall both said "no" to the Gophers - that's the proof. To me, that's not really fair - both guys have their programs rolling. It would take a pretty special job to get anyone to leave a situation like that. And both guys are basically Gods at their current schools - wouldn't be the case for anybody that would replace them.

But to me, the UMN wins out on location, academics, conference, revenue potential, recruiting base, recruiting competition (the next nearest Power 5 school is four+ hours away - WI), etc.

It loses on current roster and facilities, but shovels are supposedly going in the ground this fall.

Am I just being a total homer here?
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No you are not, that is a snapshot call by them and only looking at the now. Marshall and Smart have the chance to wait for a top 10 job, face facts if Minnesota and those two schools had offered Marshall when he was at Winthrop are you telling me he is taking Witchita State come on, those two know very litle of college athletics and Louie lit them up as he should have. Those two coaches have made those programs into the powers they are currently, when they both leave those schools will revert to their previous success levels. They are both good programs but are not historically the powers they currently are. I cannot listen to PA so 1500 it is in the office but those two I would not call experts on college sports.
 

Better jobs now? Definitely. Better jobs if current performance of the teams is eliminated from the equation? Definitely not.
 

rivergopher said:
No you are not, that is a snapshot call by them and only looking at the now. Marshall and Smart have the chance to wait for a top 10 job, face facts if Minnesota and those two schools had offered Marshall when he was at Winthrop are you telling me he is taking Witchita State come on, those two know very litle of college athletics and Louie lit them up as he should have. Those two coaches have made those programs into the powers they are currently, when they both leave those schools will revert to their previous success levels. They are both good programs but are not historically the powers they currently are. I cannot listen to PA so 1500 it is in the office but those two I would not call experts on college sports.
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I'm the guy whose email they read and basically said on air that I'm the one who is out of his mind.
 

I'd say no but there is something to be said for being a big fish in the A10 and MVC versus having to compete with Izzo, Matta, Ryan, Belein, Turgeon, ect. while being able to make the title game (unlike football). Being in the bottom 1/3rd of a power conference doesn't carry the prestige it does in football.
 


adchester said:
Better jobs now? Definitely. Better jobs if current performance of the teams is eliminated from the equation? Definitely not.
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I would agree with this. Overall not a better job. But right now given the state of these schools, for these coaches, yes.

If you have a good thing going, you enjoy your current job, and you are the top dog at your school, then you don't have to be in a rush to leave. While moving from a place like VCU to Minnesota would have a higher upside, there is definitely some risk. So if you're Shaka, why take the chance when he can afford to stay at his current school and wait for what he considers to be a perfect position to come up? As long as he keeps winning as he has been doing, he will have his pick of opportunities.
 

Not surprised these two talking muppets delivered such a scorching hot take. By their infallible logic, VCU is a better job than UCLA, since Shaka turned them down as well.
 

adchester said:
Better jobs now? Definitely. Better jobs if current performance of the teams is eliminated from the equation? Definitely not.
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No way! The quality of the job is based upon the potential that it gives you and not by the level of the current coach! Any B1G job is much better than any second tier job. It is up to you to take advantage of that potential. To be the best you need to play against the best. Recruiting to a B1G school has got to be a much bigger draw than playing for a second tier school. Every week you are playing against the best players and legendary coaches, the other schools work all year to hope to play in a few games at the level. No contest.

It is like saying that your tricked out escort is a better car than my corvette that has a flat tire.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

goldengophers said:
I'd say no but there is something to be said for being a big fish in the A10 and MVC versus having to compete with Izzo, Matta, Ryan, Belein, Turgeon, ect. while being able to make the title game (unlike football). Being in the bottom 1/3rd of a power conference doesn't carry the prestige it does in football.
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+1000
 



Depends on how you define "better." I submit that one consideration is how fast can you turn around a program? Some coaches may not want to go to a school where it is going to take 4-5 years of solid recruiting just to get to a point where you can be competitive. At a mid-major school - or in a less competitive conference - you can probably turn things around quicker if you can land 1 or 2 good recruits, or get lucky with JUCO's and transfers.

Utimately, it comes down to what each coach feels is a better fit, and a better situation for their career, and for their family. I could see a lot of coaches looking at the MN job, considering the level of competition, and saying "no thanks." Because, if you take a job like that and you are not successful, it will have an impact on your career. If Rich Pitino had stayed at FIU, and cranked out a few more winning seasons, he might have wound up in a better overall position than he is today at MN.
 

If we ever lose a coach to a mid major like VCU or Wichita State, then those programs are better. Not happening now or in the near future.
 

Someone turning you down does not equate to that job being better. But the upgrade has to be worth leaving what they've built. If Shaka , Marshall and Pitino all took other jobs tomorrow, and VCU, Wichita and Minnesota all offered Ben Jacobsen the job, I think he'd be coming to MN.
 

Or it could be they turned down Minnesota because they were happy with where they are...
 



Is it even a question? Of course they're better jobs because of what the coach has built.

VCU with Shaka is a better job than Minnesota with Shaka. Same with Marshall and Wichita State.

Shaka and Marshall have developed their programs to be better than Minnesota. If either one of them left, they would have to start over.
 

Better is a relative term. Both VCU and Wichita St have shown they can win in the NCAA tournament. Since they play in a mid-major conference, they can get to the dance much more often than what Minnesota has been able to do. From that perspective, why would a coach who gets to the dance nearly every year with his current team go to a program that realistically will get to the dance perhaps once every five years? How easy is it to say no to Minnesota when you can get to the dance more often at VCU and Wichita St?

On the flip side. If a coach can develop a consistent top 5 team in the B1G that gets into the dance 4 out of 5 years...then the job is much more enticing to the "Marshall's" and "Smarts" within the coaching community. We are not a better job...yet...than VCU or Wichita St. However, the potential to be better is obviously there to be had. With a little luck and a lot of hard work, Richard Pitino will be the guy who makes this program a destination that most coaches aspire to be at.
 

As a fan would you trade places with vcu or Wichita fans? I would.
 

Grant said:
As a fan would you trade places with vcu or Wichita fans? I would.
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For their current success, yes, absolutely. My father is an MSU grad and I get more & more envious every year of his alma mater's football and basketball success. Highly successful seasons are the expectation, not just the norm. Sometimes I have to remind him how good he has it.

But even with the current state of the Gophers' program (B1G bottom third), will take following Big Ten basketball day in & day out every season over watching the A-10 and MVC, hoping that someday soon (preferably before I'm 10 toes up) it will be the Gophers' time to be relevant year in & year out.
 

goldengophers said:
I'd say no but there is something to be said for being a big fish in the A10 and MVC versus having to compete with Izzo, Matta, Ryan, Belein, Turgeon, ect. while being able to make the title game (unlike football). Being in the bottom 1/3rd of a power conference doesn't carry the prestige it does in football.
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Well, that's exactly right. They are better jobs in the sense that they have very strong foundations for their level of competition. As you say, it is very difficult for a young coach taking over a team in the lower portion of the Big Ten to raise that program to the level where it can compete for a position in the conference's top 6 or 7 consistently.

Of course, those foundations could deteriorate within a few years after Smart and Marshall leave those programs causing a lot of pressure for their successors to live up to their legacies. 10 years ago a coach could probably get by pretty well at VCU by making the NCAA tournament once or twice every five years and making the NIT couple of times during those five years, but that probably would be considered failure now.
 

TCF=UnitedWeStand said:
Judd and Mackey claiming both jobs are better because Shaka and Marshall both said "no" to the Gophers - that's the proof. To me, that's not really fair - both guys have their programs rolling. It would take a pretty special job to get anyone to leave a situation like that. And both guys are basically Gods at their current schools - wouldn't be the case for anybody that would replace them.

But to me, the UMN wins out on location, academics, conference, revenue potential, recruiting base, recruiting competition (the next nearest Power 5 school is four+ hours away - WI), etc.

It loses on current roster and facilities, but shovels are supposedly going in the ground this fall.

Am I just being a total homer here?
Click to expand...

I really hope they aren't that stupid. Them turning down the job doesn't prove anything.

It all depends on how you look at it. Obviously those to programs are in much better situations right now. I'll ask this: if Smart had left VCU two years ago for another school (not MN) and Pitino was offered the job at both Minnesota and VCU, which one would he take?
 

GophersInIowa said:
I really hope they aren't that stupid. Them turning down the job doesn't prove anything.

It all depends on how you look at it. Obviously those to programs are in much better situations right now. I'll ask this: if Smart had left VCU two years ago for another school (not MN) and Pitino was offered the job at both Minnesota and VCU, which one would he take?
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I actually agree with Phil on this one. That wasn't the only reason he gave. VCU spends money like a power conference team. He would have every opportunity for success at VCU that he would have here and in many cases it would be easier than doing it in the Big 10. Conference affiliation means very little in basketball, and the A10 is no pushover.

Minnesota, as it stands right now, is not a good job. The vast majority think people are crazy to live here, and it's not easy to recruit to. Our neighboring states don't produce any recruits. Our practice facility is a glorified hallway. We haven't had a winning conference season in who knows how long. The only thing we have to hang our hat on is our arena, and 18 year olds don't even fully appreciate it. And the fact that we play against Bo Ryan and Tom Izzo.

VCU had a final four. Shovels nearly in the ground for their practice facility. A wide open conference, a desirable location in the heart of basketball country, and a program on the rise. Unless Minnesota offered way more money, I'd choose VCU in a second two years ago.
 

This thread can't be serious
 

I'd say VCU and WSU have better programs at this time, so you could say they're better jobs since they're more successful of late, but it's an open question whether they can both sustain the level they're at now after coaching changes.
 

Smart and Marshall turned down jobs because they were betting on themselves. No different than a Free Agent coming off an injury or something taking a one year contract in hopes that his stock will be higher next year. In Shaka's case, it has worked out. Texas is a great job. Now Marshall is just hoping he can keep winning at WSU until some big time job (IU?) opens up.
 

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