USC and Potential Violations

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TCF=UnitedWeStand

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http://sports.espn.go.com/los-angeles/ncb/news/story?id=4826748

Is it a coincidence that Garrett (the AD) chooses to fight the allegations for football with signing day three weeks away? I think not.

Delay a decision as long as possible (well after signing day), then let be what may be.

To me, USC is just dirt. And now, they have football's version of Calipari (minus a winning track record). I can't help but hope they fail miserably in every sport.
 

Kiffin is a lamb

As in the kind you sacrifice. Are you telling me that under normal circumstances, USC couldn't do better than Lane Kiffin?? These are not normal times, however, and I think most people know the NCAA HAMMER is coming. Kiffin will happily take the NCAA medicine for a few years and when the NCAA storm passes, USC will hire the real new coach.
 

Removed for posting to the wrong thread.
 

The NCAA notified USC that their investigation was complete. This is an investigation primarily of Bush and parents getting benefits from a would be marketer, as well as the OJ Mayo case. They gave the administration their evidence and scheduled a "hearing" for Feb 19th. Garret has indicated that during those hearings, SC will present their case in defense of the football program. In regards to hoops, they have admitted their culpability with self-sanctions.

What is so hard for you to understand? You're of the opinion that Garrett scheduled these events of his own accord?

The lack of knowledge surrounding this situation, especially displayed on these boards, is staggering. If ESPN reports it....IT MUST BE TRUE! If YahooSports reports it, it's as good as gold!
 

MNWolfman said:
The NCAA notified USC that their investigation was complete. This is an investigation primarily of Bush and parents getting benefits from a would be marketer, as well as the OJ Mayo case. They gave the administration their evidence and scheduled a "hearing" for Feb 19th. Garret has indicated that during those hearings, SC will present their case in defense of the football program. In regards to hoops, they have admitted their culpability with self-sanctions.

What is so hard for you to understand? You're of the opinion that Garrett scheduled these events of his own accord?

The lack of knowledge surrounding this situation, especially displayed on these boards, is staggering. If ESPN reports it....IT MUST BE TRUE! If YahooSports reports it, it's as good as gold!
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What is hard for me to understand is your point.

I can't stand USC. I can't stand that they are lauded for their top recruits and recruiting classes, yet the recruitment of two of their highest profile recruits - Bush an Mayo - has a ton of sliminess attached to both situations.

Then, Garrett goes and hires a supposed great recruiter, who has no winning track record whatsoever that can be attributed to himself whatsoever, and someone who in one year as a college coach toed and in some instances crossed the line on a number of NCAA rule violations and then bailed.

Kiffin is a d-bag, Garret is a scum-bag for hiring him.

Don't take either the board, or yourself, so seriously.
 


I think it's great the NCAA has concluded the Bush investigation. Now they can get to work on the Jarrett investigation and the McKnight investigation.
 

TCF=UnitedWeStand said:
What is hard for me to understand is your point.

I can't stand USC. I can't stand that they are lauded for their top recruits and recruiting classes, yet the recruitment of two of their highest profile recruits - Bush an Mayo - has a ton of sliminess attached to both situations.

Then, Garrett goes and hires a supposed great recruiter, who has no winning track record whatsoever that can be attributed to himself whatsoever, and someone who in one year as a college coach toed and in some instances crossed the line on a number of NCAA rule violations and then bailed.

Kiffin is a d-bag, Garret is a scum-bag for hiring him.

Don't take either the board, or yourself, so seriously.
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there was nothing dubious about the recruitment of Bush, unless you have some facts i'm not privvy to. Mayo...absolutely...as noted. coach was fired, program was put on probation by the university, and the NCAA will weigh in shortly. Bush's issues occurred during his soph/jr seasons when his dad began a relationship with an ex-con trying to start a marketing company.

jarrett lived w/ matt leinart in an off-campus apartment (as most of the SC students do...it's an urban campus) and bob leinart payed the majority of the rent. mcknight drove his girlfriends SUV, a car she makes payments on, after her boss made the downpayment. mcknight was suspended for the bowlgame, even though he has been cleared by the university...all clear indication that USC is CHEATING right?. gimme a *&^!#*&^!#*&^!#*&^!#ing break. Your disdain for SC is clear, that's fine. Is kiffin an asshole? probably...it's not worth arguing that the guy has burned his share of bridges and rubs people the wrong way. is he a good coach? as an sc fan, i hope so...he's pretty young so the jury is still out.

try to stay grounded in the facts somewhat. don't be so blinded by your hate. there were plenty of good reasons to hire kiffin. any coach worth his salt is currently employed, so spare me the crying game if you feel he wronged TN.
 

Why did McKnights girlfriend's boss start the ForJoeMcKnight web site? Gave her the down payment, but she makes the payments, hmmm....?
 

MNWolfman said:
there was nothing dubious about the recruitment of Bush, unless you have some facts i'm not privvy to. Mayo...absolutely...as noted. coach was fired, program was put on probation by the university, and the NCAA will weigh in shortly. Bush's issues occurred during his soph/jr seasons when his dad began a relationship with an ex-con trying to start a marketing company.

jarrett lived w/ matt leinart in an off-campus apartment (as most of the SC students do...it's an urban campus) and bob leinart payed the majority of the rent. mcknight drove his girlfriends SUV, a car she makes payments on, after her boss made the downpayment. mcknight was suspended for the bowlgame, even though he has been cleared by the university...all clear indication that USC is CHEATING right?. gimme a *&^!#*&^!#*&^!#*&^!#ing break. Your disdain for SC is clear, that's fine. Is kiffin an asshole? probably...it's not worth arguing that the guy has burned his share of bridges and rubs people the wrong way. is he a good coach? as an sc fan, i hope so...he's pretty young so the jury is still out.

try to stay grounded in the facts somewhat. don't be so blinded by your hate. there were plenty of good reasons to hire kiffin. any coach worth his salt is currently employed, so spare me the crying game if you feel he wronged TN.
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First of all, it's not as though I am losing sleep over USC; my point is that I will root against them now and as long as Lane Kiffin is there.

Regarding Reggie Bush, simply google Reggie Bush and Recruiting Violations. Here is a link that i think gives a nice summary:

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/117568-the-disappearing-scandals-of-the-usc-trojans

NOTE - I don't necessarily agree with this guy's conspiracy theory as to why the NCAA chose to sweep this under the rug. And I know it's a blog, but you can find plenty of other summaries within the same search.

Also, I wasn't there, and I certainly didn't do the investigation.

My point is simply that USC's recruiting practices are "smelly" at best (actually found guilty or not, you can't possibly deny this, can you?), and the school has profited exponentially for them. I just think they are absolute professionals at covering everything up.

I mean, really - shouldn't the Song Girls be enough?
 



And I know the Bush issues mentioned above are regarding while Bush was at USC, but it seems a natural follow up would be to look into how he got there in the first place...

And I don't think USC is alone - as a former relative of a college football coach, I know there are many within the industry who feel the same types of things go on at a lot of different places (even low-profile programs where the oversight isn't nearly as strong; in some cases, even worse), but again, these schools are just experts at covering their tracks.
 

TCF=UnitedWeStand said:
Regarding Reggie Bush, simply google Reggie Bush and Recruiting Violations. Here is a link that i think gives a nice summary:

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/...ns are much less severe than many would wish.
Click to expand...
 

TCF=UnitedWeStand said:
And I know the Bush issues mentioned above are regarding while Bush was at USC, but it seems a natural follow up would be to look into how he got there in the first place...

And I don't think USC is alone - as a former relative of a college football coach, I know there are many within the industry who feel the same types of things go on at a lot of different places (even low-profile programs where the oversight isn't nearly as strong; in some cases, even worse), but again, these schools are just experts at covering their tracks.
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Lol...ok, so you beat my critique with this one...sorry, didn't see it before I posted. :)

However, to say "it seems a natural follow up would be to look into how he got there in the first place" is just silly. You could say that with any big player going to any school. How did Zooker sign Benn? And so on. I'm not saying cheating doesn't happen (we know it does) but you are officially into unfounded allegation territory and you're using the "but I'm just asking the question" defense to back it up.
 

GoAUpher said:
TCF: It's nice that those Google search terms result in a link to that summary, but none of the improper benefits accusations have anything to do with this recruitment to USC. They all took place once he was established as a star RB (in 2005/2006). I haven't seen any allegations of issues before his arrival at USC in 2003. The same is true of McKnight...the allegations are about the car he's been driving now, not something that happened when he was recruited.

I think there were definitely rules broken. And if the NCAA does the right thing they should probably be able to force USC to vacate many wins. And if they can prove the coaching/AD staff knew anything about it then they can go into wider sanctions. But otherwise its an improper benefits case of one player (maybe more if they find stuff in the McKnight case). And the penalties to a school that is deemed unaware of the violations are much less severe than many would wish.
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What difference does it make if it happens before they come or when they are all ready there? Can't they promise these guys stuff once they are in the program awhile?

And if you don't think the school is aware of the violations you are blind. The whole country knows USC cheats.
 



Never use a Bleacher Report article as evidence in an argument. Any of us could go on there and post anything we want right now.
 



Poor USC fan. My heart bleeds for you. Speaking of front runners, when is the NCAA going to get around to
Ohio State?
 

bankonit said:
What difference does it make if it happens before they come or when they are all ready there? Can't they promise these guys stuff once they are in the program awhile?

And if you don't think the school is aware of the violations you are blind. The whole country knows USC cheats.
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Who is promising who what exactly? And when?

So, by your logic, a wannabe agent promises something to a potential recruit, and that implicates the University in your eyes? Again, all very interesting.

would this be worse than doing the actual school work for current students?
 

bankonit said:
What difference does it make if it happens before they come or when they are all ready there? Can't they promise these guys stuff once they are in the program awhile?

And if you don't think the school is aware of the violations you are blind. The whole country knows USC cheats.
Click to expand...

Well first off, TCF's initial post using the link talked used it as evidence of recruiting violations (which it isn't). He qualified his post pretty quickly (before my post went up in fact) but then went on to make the same kind of specious argument you do.

As for the bolded, you can say that about any school. You could claim it about Brew if Henderson ends up here. "Well, he must have promised his family something!". Saying something is so doesn't make it true. You trotting out the "well I have no proof but its possible" argument. It's intellectually lazy and completely pointless without evidence. Its the same as me saying I know for a fact that you make your living by scamming old people. Sure, I have no proof and don't actually know but I believe it so it must be true.

Personally, I think it is likely that some folks at USC were aware of at least some of the Bush stuff. But I also think it is likely that the NCAA won't be able to prove it. And unless they have proof, USC will skate by with minor penalties (vacated wins not lost scholarships) because without evidence of the school's complicity this is only a amateur status/improper benefits issue.
 

Writing on Wall Wolfman

Carroll, who has turned down several pro jobs before just up and leaves the #1 QB recruit in 2009, the #1 WR recruit in 2010, the #1 OL recruit in 2010, etc. etc. etc. for Seattle, who fires Jim Mora after only one year? Riley, Sarkasian, Fischer, Del Rio, etc. etc. ALL turn down the job?

My guess is that Seattle wanted Carroll before they hired Mora, but Pete turned them down. Carroll gets hot feet because he knows the jig is up and calls Seattle for a $35 million life boat.
Under normal circumstances, Kiffin could NEVER get the USC job.

Could be wrong, but a lot of smoke usually means there is a fire.
 

balds said:
Carroll, who has turned down several pro jobs before just up and leaves the #1 QB recruit in 2009, the #1 WR recruit in 2010, the #1 OL recruit in 2010, etc. etc. etc. for Seattle, who fires Jim Mora after only one year? Riley, Sarkasian, Fischer, Del Rio, etc. etc. ALL turn down the job?

My guess is that Seattle wanted Carroll before they hired Mora, but Pete turned them down. Carroll gets hot feet because he knows the jig is up and calls Seattle for a $35 million life boat.
Under normal circumstances, Kiffin could NEVER get the USC job.

Could be wrong, but a lot of smoke usually means there is a fire.
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Sure enough. But how much fire can the NCAA link directly to USC's coaches or athletic department members? If they can't link anything directly to USC this is about Bush, Jarrett, or McKnight being ineligible b/c of improper benefits. That sort of thing costs a team wins but probably won't cost them scholly's. I don't even know if it costs them their recent national titles since the NCAA doesn't actually determine or declare an official NCAA champion for D-I football. The titles USC won were the 2004 BCS title (a separate entity from the NCAA) and the 2003 AP title (again, separate) and I'd bet that those groups would have to revoke the titles. Same thing for Bush's Heisman...the Downtown Athletic Club would have to strip him of the award.

Is that dumb? Yep. So if you want USC punished harshly you better hope they find a way to pin a connection between USC and the "fires"...otherwise you're probably going to be disappointed.

Also, Wolfman hasn't denied that there is "fire or smoke"...he's simply pushed back on the "cheating" comments because they assume a direct link between USC and the improper benefits (which have yet to be proven). Since he's admitted that he has ties to members of the USC athletic department I don't think its some random agenda.
 

I don't know any specifics about cheating

Just looking at this from a wide angle, and knowing there is some smoke, these things don't make sense. Coaches talk and know people. Why would all of these coaches turn down the job and why would they hire Lane Kiffin? The guy has more secondary NCAA violations than he has college wins. It is still my guess that he falls on the knife and is gone as soon as they have served their time.
 

balds said:
Just looking at this from a wide angle, and knowing there is some smoke, these things don't make sense. Coaches talk and know people. Why would all of these coaches turn down the job and why would they hire Lane Kiffin? The guy has more secondary NCAA violations than he has college wins. It is still my guess that he falls on the knife and is gone as soon as they have served their time.
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I'm not saying you're wrong. I'm just pessimistic that there might not be much of a knife to fall on if they can't come up with more proof of athletic dept involvement. The best chance of that (IMO) is via the Bush civil suit where Carroll and other USC folks could be called to testify under oath.
 

Only time will tell

But I think the fact that USC had to settle for their 8th option should tell us something.
 

An interesting look back

Fun to look back at when big things go down.
 


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