Updates About Penn State Scandal UPDATED 6/12: PSU has spent $45.9M on scandal

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Dear felons: There's a perverted trophy just sitting there for you. What would you rather be...a nameless, faceless puke who rotted in jail for the rest or your life...or the convict who murdered Jerry Sandusky? Something to think about.
 

Breakin' The Plane said:
Dear felons: There's a perverted trophy just sitting there for you. What would you rather be...a nameless, faceless puke who rotted in jail for the rest or your life...or the convict who murdered Jerry Sandusky? Something to think about.
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A new kind of "Sandusky Blitz."
 



gophmeister said:
I think Paterno's legacy will be tainted, but not so much that people forget all the success. It's terrible what happened, but as with all powerful people when they do something wrong people are either afraid to come forward or those that do don't have the greatest credibility. Sandusky got away scott free until he picked on the wrong kid.
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Paterno's legacy will be destroyed. Forever. That is now sealed.
 






Parski1 said:
Destroyed.
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I don't think so. I don't know if it's a fair comparison or not, but Paterno's legacy reminds me of Michael Jackson's. There are people who so vehemently support JoePa and what he did for Penn State football that his legacy can never be destroyed.
 

Hope they send him to a women's prison, so he doesn't actually enjoy himself there.
 

Now that we have a verdict, I'd like to go back to Mike McQuery. I used to have a lot of disdain for this guy, but my view has shifted. This guy risked everything he has lived for to report on and testify against the pedophile. I think he was caught between a rock and a hard place, and in the end he did the right thing.

Think about it. He saw his tacit boss molest a kid. He reported it to his boss's boss. His boss's boss's boss knew. His boss's boss's boss's boss knew. Any one of these guys, in the town of State College and in the state of Pennsylvania, held McQuery's professional life in their hands. He handled it the way that 95% of us may have at his age. I have a hard time thinking badly of him now.

He may never coach again. Hopefully, some smart coach with some guts will hire this guy. PSU should have to pay his salary for the rest of his life.
 

highwayman said:
Now that we have a verdict, I'd like to go back to Mike McQuery. I used to have a lot of disdain for this guy, but my view has shifted. This guy risked everything he has lived for to report on and testify against the pedophile. I think he was caught between a rock and a hard place, and in the end he did the right thing.

Think about it. He saw his tacit boss molest a kid. He reported it to his boss's boss. His boss's boss's boss knew. His boss's boss's boss's boss knew. Any one of these guys, in the town of State College and in the state of Pennsylvania, held McQuery's professional life in their hands. He handled it the way that 95% of us may have at his age. I have a hard time thinking badly of him now.

He may never coach again. Hopefully, some smart coach with some guts will hire this guy. PSU should have to pay his salary for the rest of his life.
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The odd thing is that the charge in which McQuery testified about, victim 2 being raped in the shower, was one of the charges Sandusky was acquitted of.
 



highwayman said:
Now that we have a verdict, I'd like to go back to Mike McQuery. I used to have a lot of disdain for this guy, but my view has shifted. This guy risked everything he has lived for to report on and testify against the pedophile. I think he was caught between a rock and a hard place, and in the end he did the right thing.
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Sorry, seeing what he saw and then seeing Sandusky still around there with other boys? He might have been in a tough spot, but, no way in hell, did McQuery do the "right thing".
 

Dr.Don said:
Thursday from ESPN.com:

Sandusky referred to himself as the "tickle monster".

http://espn.go.com/college-football...r-claims-jerry-sandusky-called-tickle-monster
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Well Jerry was half right with what he referred to himself as. I wonder if the NCAA is considering any sanctions against PSU for all of this. You hear about schools being looked at for "lack of institutional control" and coaches looking the other way on issues. At PSU, from the football program up, they did not keep a pedophile off campus and away from children and continued abuse occurred right under their noses.
 

CrocShots said:
The odd thing is that the charge in which McQuery testified about, victim 2 being raped in the shower, was one of the charges Sandusky was acquitted of.
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I saw that. However, without him, this thing never got legs...
 

46Gophers said:
Well Jerry was half right with what he referred to himself as. I wonder if the NCAA is considering any sanctions against PSU for all of this. You hear about schools being looked at for "lack of institutional control" and coaches looking the other way on issues. At PSU, from the football program up, they did not keep a pedophile off campus and away from children and continued abuse occurred right under their noses.
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And none of that has anything to do with the product on the field.
 

46Gophers said:
Well Jerry was half right with what he referred to himself as. I wonder if the NCAA is considering any sanctions against PSU for all of this. You hear about schools being looked at for "lack of institutional control" and coaches looking the other way on issues. At PSU, from the football program up, they did not keep a pedophile off campus and away from children and continued abuse occurred right under their noses.
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This is a legal issue, not an NCAA one. No NCAA rules were broken. This provided NO benefit to the program or the department. There is nothing about this that is under the NCAA's purview.
 

Lack of Institutional Control

GoAUpher said:
This is a legal issue, not an NCAA one. No NCAA rules were broken. This provided NO benefit to the program or the department. There is nothing about this that is under the NCAA's purview.
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Actually, I think you can make a strong case that there was and has been for a long time a lack of institutional control at Penn State. You might say that Jerry Sandusky was just the tip of the iceberg there. It has been well established that Joe Paterno stopped any investigation of his football program and his players when problems were reported. There are many examples of Joe having the final say and not allowing any action to be taken. One of my favorites is when an academic counselor complained to the Board of Trustees that Joe was stopping her from doing her job. What did Joe do? He made sure that she was fired. So was there lack of institutional control at Penn State? Absolutely, and it starts and ends with Joe Paterno. The handling of the Jerry Sandusky case is just one of many examples of it. The problem is that the NCAA also lacks the will for "institutional control” and therefore nothing will come of it.
 

Not that it really matters but this is an interesting "what if" that could have been bitten the University of Virginia. I was chatting with a friend of mine who is a University of Virginia grad and he told me that Sandusky was a finalist for their head coaching job (I think it was sometime around 2000). I'd say the Cavs dodged a bullet a big time!
 

dpodoll68 said:
And none of that has anything to do with the product on the field.
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If you think this had nothing to do with protecting the football program, you are blind.

Steps could have been taken, and they were not. How the heir apparent to Penn State left football entirely, and never even surfaced in d-3, is the big question of the day.

This is far,far, bigger than Woog giving a kid money for a plane flight to a funeral in a hat.
 

saintpaulguy said:
If you think this had nothing to do with protecting the football program, you are blind.

Steps could have been taken, and they were not. How the heir apparent to Penn State left football entirely, and never even surfaced in d-3, is the big question of the day.

This is far,far, bigger than Woog giving a kid money for a plane flight to a funeral in a hat.
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What NCAA rule was broken? Cite it specifically for me, please.

Further, please outline how a single Penn St. football player or coach benefitted from Jerry Sandusky raping little boys.

The Woog comparison is silly. Giving benefits to players is a direct and straightforward violation of NCAA rules. Sheltering pederasts is not. I'm sorry that the NCAA isn't going to punish Penn St. football so you can feel better about yourself.
 

There's probably no NCAA rule that covers this situation, because no one who writes the rules ever conceived of this type of situation.

I think dp is technically correct. What Sandusky did (as I understand NCAA rules) falls outside the scope of the rulebook. But, I also get what SaintPaulGuy is saying. Somebody at Penn State needs to pay for this. There appears to have been more than enough smoke for someone to have seen the fire - but it seems that people did not want to see. Was this done to protect the program? To protect Paterno's legacy? for sheer cowardice? We may never know.

Here's my question - is there a lawyer out there who can speak to SaintPaulGuy's point? Is anybody legally responsible for allowing this to happen (I suppose it could be construed as criminal negligence?)
 

Whether anyone can be held legally culpable has absolutely nothing, at all, to do with the NCAA. The NCAA has no legal authority and has no jurisdiction whatsoever over legal matters. I'm sure it's quite possible that Schultz and/or Spanier could have charges (obstruction, for example) brought against them. However, again, that has nothing to do with the football team specifically or the NCAA in general.
 

Breakin' The Plane said:
I don't think so. I don't know if it's a fair comparison or not, but Paterno's legacy reminds me of Michael Jackson's. There are people who so vehemently support JoePa and what he did for Penn State football that his legacy can never be destroyed.
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I had the same thought only with Nixon v. Jackson.
 

GoAUpher said:
This is a legal issue, not an NCAA one. No NCAA rules were broken. This provided NO benefit to the program or the department. There is nothing about this that is under the NCAA's purview.
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Hey, was just trying to point out that with all of the unethical behavior and coverup by PSU officials that they might finally get looked at by the NCAA since the criminal case is closed. In fact, in November the NCAA let PSU know that they were going to investigate (see link). If they were willing to allow a pedophile amongst them and look the other way, who knows what else they may have looked the other way at. With all the new information coming out, who knows what may come of it?

http://aol.sportingnews.com/ncaa-fo...investigate-penn-states-institutional-control
 

Killjoy said:
Actually, I think you can make a strong case that there was and has been for a long time a lack of institutional control at Penn State. You might say that Jerry Sandusky was just the tip of the iceberg there. It has been well established that Joe Paterno stopped any investigation of his football program and his players when problems were reported. There are many examples of Joe having the final say and not allowing any action to be taken. One of my favorites is when an academic counselor complained to the Board of Trustees that Joe was stopping her from doing her job. What did Joe do? He made sure that she was fired. So was there lack of institutional control at Penn State? Absolutely, and it starts and ends with Joe Paterno. The handling of the Jerry Sandusky case is just one of many examples of it. The problem is that the NCAA also lacks the will for "institutional control” and therefore nothing will come of it.
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+1
 

dpodoll68 said:
Whether anyone can be held legally culpable has absolutely nothing, at all, to do with the NCAA. The NCAA has no legal authority and has no jurisdiction whatsoever over legal matters. I'm sure it's quite possible that Schultz and/or Spanier could have charges (obstruction, for example) brought against them. However, again, that has nothing to do with the football team specifically or the NCAA in general.
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That defense didn't work at Nuremberg. This is what Judge Haywood had to say about defendant Janning: "Janning, to be sure, is a tragic figure. We believe he "loathed" the evil he did. But compassion for the present torture of his soul must not beget forgetfulness of the torture and death of millions by the government of which he was a part. Janning's record and his fate illuminate the most shattering truth that has emerged from this trial. If he and the other defendants were all depraved perverts - if the leaders of the Third Reich were sadistic monsters and maniacs - these events would have no more moral significance than an earthquake or other natural catastrophes. But this trial has shown that under the stress of a national crisis, men - even able and extraordinary men - can delude themselves into the commission of crimes and atrocities so vast and heinous as to stagger the imagination. No one who has sat through this trial can ever forget. The sterilization of men because of their political beliefs... The murder of children... How "easily" that can happen! There are those in our country today, too, who speak of the "protection" of the country. Of "survival". The answer to that is: "survival as what"? A country isn't a rock. And it isn't an extension of one's self. "It's what it stands for, when standing for something is the most difficult!" Before the people of the world - let it now be noted in our decision here that this is what "we" stand for: "justice, truth... and the value of a single human being!"

If the NCAA doesn't stand for justice and truth, then what does it stand for? Simply because it has no legal authority, does not mean it has no moral authority to act.
 

Institutional Control

When USC lost scholarships one of the things they were also cited for was lack of institutional control. I have always wondered how the rules define “lack of institutional control” and what potential penalties are listed for this offense. Dpodoll has stated several times that the Sandusky case is a legal matter and does not fall under the jurisdiction of the NCAA rules. He certainly may be right but depending on how lack of institutional control is defined it may be the “catch all” that the NCAA could use to go after Penn State for what took place there.
 

Dean S said:
If the NCAA doesn't stand for justice and truth, then what does it stand for? Simply because it has no legal authority, does not mean it has no moral authority to act.
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Organizing tournaments.

Selling TV rights.

Making sure student-athletes are really student-athletes.

That's it.
 

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