Updated ESPN Recruit Rankings

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Gopher Warrior said:
Umm, OK, but since he's not...?
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Eric Bossi of Rivals said after the summer that he loves Martin's physical tools and skill level for a 4, but the concern for him was that he had a tendency to disappear and just wasn't as productive as he should have been. If those are the reasons he wasn't a 4-star, and Bossi said they were, then it's only logical to think his ranking would go up after significantly improving his production.

EDIT: I understand that these are ESPN rankings and not Rivals, but if that was truly the biggest concern with him, and he has seemingly improved in that area, his ranking should improve on all scouting sites, not just Rivals.
 

GameDay said:
His grade or star ranking didn't move. He's putting up 27 ppg, 15 rpg this season and leads the state of Washington in both categories! His ranking seems to indicate the only place he could make an impact is at a school like Savannah State. And that's what has people surprised...
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If you go from a two star player (which most question the accuracy) to scoring 27 points a game with 15 rebounds a game and leading the state in both categories....then yeah that is blowing up. Two star players aren't suppose to put up that type of production. I can't say what his competition is like in Washington but from what I have read it is pretty good as well. I agree with you totally. Marquette dude is off base.
 


Martin's downgrade if I recall correctly began after a poor AAU season. It didn't have much to do with his high school season. As far as his production this year it has been great but what type of competition does he play against? I will gladly take this kid as a two star recruit and hope he shows the skills he has been displaying so far this year.
 

We can only hope the odds of Martin panning out are comparable to the odds Mbakwe faced when he applied for his waiver for a 6th year.
 


Gopher Warrior said:
How or why?

He said "Martin has been blowing up" and I think he's making things up. I'm wondering what would cause him to think Martin has been so unbelievable that surely he must be a top 100 recruit in everyone's rankings now.
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You do realize you put words in someone's mouth by making a massive inference, right? Where did he say he was a top 100 recruit? He simply said Martin has been blowing up, and he's surprised he's not ranked higher because of the blow up.

What's so hard about that to understand?
 


I've watched DeLaSalle quite a bit and I'd take Jarvis over Sacar every single time
 

Jaykay said:
I've watched DeLaSalle quite a bit and I'd take Jarvis over Sacar every single time
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Since Sacar averages more points, more rebounds and shoots a higher fg%, and is considered one of the top defensive players in the state your post makes zero sense. Vs. St Rita Sacar had 29 points and 7 rebounds vs 4 points for Jarvis. To say Jarvis outplays Sacar every game is silly.
 



The Brain Trust said:
Since Sacar averages more points, more rebounds and shoots a higher fg%, and is considered one of the top defensive players in the state your post makes zero sense. Vs. St Rita Sacar had 29 points and 7 rebounds vs 4 points for Jarvis. To say Jarvis outplays Sacar every game is silly.
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I have been a big fan of Sacar for while now, and never understood the lack of attention he was getting here in Minnesota. I'd love to see him in maroon and gold. Also, I know Jarvis is from Minnesota and all, but I'd much rather have jelan adams. Nothing against Jarvis, but I just think adams is a lot better shooter and passer, while Jarvis seems to disappear at times, making him fairly inconsistent. Here is a highlight video of adams for those who haven't heard of him, pretty impressive stuff, also note its only his sophmore highlights, the buzzard beater at the end won his team the championship.

 

GuyFawkes said:
I have been a big fan of Sacar for while now, and never understood the lack of attention he was getting here in Minnesota. I'd love to see him in maroon and gold. Also, I know Jarvis is from Minnesota and all, but I'd much rather have jelan adams. Nothing against Jarvis, but I just think adams is a lot better shooter and passer, while Jarvis seems to disappear at times, making him fairly inconsistent. Here is a highlight video of adams for those who haven't heard of him, pretty impressive stuff, also note its only his sophmore highlights, the buzzard beater at the end won his team the championship.

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Chances of getting a top 40 east coast kid with offers from Kansas and Conn are pretty slim
 

The Brain Trust said:
Since Sacar averages more points, more rebounds and shoots a higher fg%, and is considered one of the top defensive players in the state your post makes zero sense. Vs. St Rita Sacar had 29 points and 7 rebounds vs 4 points for Jarvis. To say Jarvis outplays Sacar every game is silly.
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THE SCOUT!
 

XMan said:
If you go from a two star player (which most question the accuracy) to scoring 27 points a game with 15 rebounds a game and leading the state in both categories....then yeah that is blowing up. Two star players aren't suppose to put up that type of production. I can't say what his competition is like in Washington but from what I have read it is pretty good as well. I agree with you totally. Marquette dude is off base.
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You would be shocked how many UNRANKED players put up those numbers (or very similar). Every player that scores 20+ per game with 10+ boards in HS isn't always going to be ranked. What confuses me is that if, say, a Wisconsin recruit drastically dropped from 4 stars to 2 like Martin, we would be all over that and ragging on that player for digressing and ripping Bo Ryan for signing such a player.
 



SI has Josh a 6'7" 2 Star. Word now he is 6'9" with late growth spurt. He has doubled his prep stats from last year. Had offers from Ok St,Fla St. and Pitts. So yeah he should be a 3 star now
 

BigGopherFan said:
You would be shocked how many UNRANKED players put up those numbers (or very similar). Every player that scores 20+ per game with 10+ boards in HS isn't always going to be ranked. What confuses me is that if, say, a Wisconsin recruit drastically dropped from 4 stars to 2 like Martin, we would be all over that and ragging on that player for digressing and ripping Bo Ryan for signing such a player.
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Digressing to what? Football?
 


I like Sacar's game and think he is a solid player, but he might only be the 4th best player in that class. You could make a good argument for Wilson over Anim.
 

GophersOnTheRise said:
I like Sacar's game and think he is a solid player, but he might only be the 4th best player in that class. You could make a good argument for Wilson over Anim.
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Wilson may very well be a better prospect, but his grades probably make Sacar more recruitable. I like Anim, but I'm not sure he's quite reached the high major level. That said, he's close given how well he has played this season, such that open period in the spring will be very important for his recruitment. The Badger staff has shown a good deal of interest in him, and I will not be surprised if they eventually offer, as they will probably have 5 openings for the 2015 class. I like Wilson too, and while he claims a UW offer, I'd be surprised of he was able to commit at this point.
 

dpodoll68 said:
Digressing to what? Football?
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"digressing" is certainly the wrong word. Good thing I'm just a hated rube and not a hated writer. But my point is we have to see Martin for what he is. Bottom line is someone, somewhere, with at least some knowledge of basketball thought is overall game declined enough to drop him not one, but two stars. One instance of that happening: Wisconsin's Evan Anderson. He started before his sophomore season as the No. 11 player...IN THE NATION. Then dropped from 5 stars to 4 after his junior year. By the time he was a senior, he was a 3 star out of most to all Top 100s/150s. He currently sits on the bench and never plays. We are now hoping for some sort of growth spurt or whatever on Martin and making excuses. I just hope the same people on here who say stars don't matter say the same thing when Pitino inks his first 4 or 5 star guy. I have never, ever seen Martin live, so all I have to go by are first-hand accounts, and one just so happens to be unimpressed enough to summarily drop him from an elite recruit to a below average one.
 

Winasota Gopher said:
Gw

Are you saying you don't think Josh is better than the 2 stars he has from Espn?? What's your read of his ability and future impact?
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I don't know what the difference is between "2 stars" and "3 stars" and I don't often get into those types of conversations or concern myself with it.

I was merely curious as what was behind Madtown's claim that Martin was "blowing up". They probably use different/odd/bizarre language in Madison, Wisconsin, but to me blowing up means outsiders are mentioning someone / giving him respect. You can't be "blowing up" if you're not being "blown up".

What I think Madtown meant was that he believes Martin's game has dramatically improved because he's putting up a lot numbers and therefore he SHOULD BE blowing up.

I get understand that line of thinking, although there are many players who put up crazy numbers that aren't great HM or D-I prospects.

I focus on what I saw of Martin this summer and the advanced statistics around what he and his team produced in the EYBL.

As for high school, one could point out that last year his team was one of the best in the state. They lost their top player to graduation and now it's Martin's team. They are a ~.500 type team this year despite his individual production rising. That doesn't necessarily mean much about Martin specifically, but it's important to consider along with other factors.

With regard to his ability and future impact... I see his value as a guy who could mix it up inside, rebound, defend.. not sold on his ability to shoot the ball away from the basket (or at the FT line :)). I think he'll compete, has an edge that can be good for a locker room if used the right way.

Probably will struggle with fouls early on; may be a slow start... but he does have the ability to be a solid player. And a player of his type is needed on the roster.. so not a bad fit at Minnesota.
 

Have you actually seen him play? I have a hard time getting excited/turned off by stats and highlight videos without some real game insight. JM could be a black hole in the paint and a completely terrible shot selector and still make highlight reels and produce big box numbers... In EYBL it's tough to take advanced stats with more than a grain of salt considering the style of play hardly reflects that of what someone would play in league basketball not to mention the sample size is extremely tight.

JM intrigues me as he LOOKS like a b1G pf at age 18, so he doesn't have some of the classic "needs to grow into his body" concerns. He's supremely athletic, or appears to be via videos, which is something we sorely lack. And then he seems to be able to score... How he is getting those points is what concerns me, there's a big difference between how a physically gifted hs gets 30 ppg and how he would fair in the B1G as a freshman.

I'm excited to see how these 3 recruits pan out as each has a completely different sell sheet based on there most recent results, and I tend to think not a one of us has an idea of how they will fit other than the positions they will play...
 

Winasota Gopher said:
Have you actually seen him play? I have a hard time getting excited/turned off by stats and highlight videos without some real game insight. JM could be a black hole in the paint and a completely terrible shot selector and still make highlight reels and produce big box numbers... In EYBL it's tough to take advanced stats with more than a grain of salt considering the style of play hardly reflects that of what someone would play in league basketball not to mention the sample size is extremely tight.

JM intrigues me as he LOOKS like a b1G pf at age 18, so he doesn't have some of the classic "needs to grow into his body" concerns. He's supremely athletic, or appears to be via videos, which is something we sorely lack. And then he seems to be able to score... How he is getting those points is what concerns me, there's a big difference between how a physically gifted hs gets 30 ppg and how he would fair in the B1G as a freshman.

I'm excited to see how these 3 recruits pan out as each has a completely different sell sheet based on there most recent results, and I tend to think not a one of us has an idea of how they will fit other than the positions they will play...
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Yes, I have seen him play. As far as EYBL advanced stats (which I prepared myself - there is not much out on websites publicly)... you might be surprised how similar they are to NCAA D-I stats. It's a far deeper topic, but there are some good predictors within EYBL numbers as to NCAA performance.

Definitely would not call him supremely athletic - he can get nasty with dunks and work at the rim - can elevate nicely inside... but is not a guy that will glide in from the perimeter gracefully.

His size.. to me he's a 4 who guards 4's without strong perimeter games and/or 5's at times.

You're right on the 'grow into the body'.. he's been a strong young dude. That obviously helps a lot at the high school level. Going up against length and height in the Big Ten will present different challenges. Early on I'd like to see him focused on defense... if he can help there then all is good.

Oto without the 3-point stroke? Maybe. ;) More of a boost / lift at the rim though.. Martin does do some impressive things at the rim. Also, I think he'll be a "go all out" type of hustler and a player who shows emotion - fans will like that.
 

The Brain Trust said:
Since Sacar averages more points, more rebounds and shoots a higher fg%, and is considered one of the top defensive players in the state your post makes zero sense. Vs. St Rita Sacar had 29 points and 7 rebounds vs 4 points for Jarvis. To say Jarvis outplays Sacar every game is silly.
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:rolleyes: Ok, first of all I didn't say he outplays him every game, that would be pretty tough to do, congrats on pointing out a game where Sacar played better. I would hope he averages more rebounds than a point guard, that would be like me saying Jarvis is better because he averages more assists. Jarvis is a very unselfish player, almost to the point where it's a flaw in his game. Sacar shoots more and his main role on that team is to score so he averages more points, but their FG% is nearly identical. Since we're cherry picking stats I'll throw in that Jarvis turns the ball over less despite handling the ball most of the game.

The point I was trying to make is that I've seen the two play a lot and to me it's clear which one I think will be the better college player. Jarvis is a tremendous athlete, does not turn the ball over, can really distribute, and can score when needed. I think he'll only get better as he gets to the college level and rounds out his game.
 

I want the Gophers to offer Sacar. He is worth a B1G offer now, that simple.
 


Gopher Warrior said:
Yes, I have seen him play. As far as EYBL advanced stats (which I prepared myself - there is not much out on websites publicly)... you might be surprised how similar they are to NCAA D-I stats. It's a far deeper topic, but there are some good predictors within EYBL numbers as to NCAA performance.

Definitely would not call him supremely athletic - he can get nasty with dunks and work at the rim - can elevate nicely inside... but is not a guy that will glide in from the perimeter gracefully.

His size.. to me he's a 4 who guards 4's without strong perimeter games and/or 5's at times.

You're right on the 'grow into the body'.. he's been a strong young dude. That obviously helps a lot at the high school level. Going up against length and height in the Big Ten will present different challenges. Early on I'd like to see him focused on defense... if he can help there then all is good.

Oto without the 3-point stroke? Maybe. ;) More of a boost / lift at the rim though.. Martin does do some impressive things at the rim. Also, I think he'll be a "go all out" type of hustler and a player who shows emotion - fans will like that.
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I'll have to look into the link you provided, as an outsider (someone who doesn't follow the summer league scene to any extent whatsoever) it's easy for me to discount the performance as being able to "play ball" rather than a player that fits well playing within a system. I might be completely off base, but I just don't expect a summer league team to work with a high number of sets or a very sophisticated motion style offense. More about matchup and pure ability than having the right pieces for a particular system. Does that support/hurt Josh Martin, I'll openly admit I have no freaken clue.

Glad to hear you've seen him play, as you might be one of the first to comment on him who actually has. Scaring the sh1t out of me with the Oto comment. I'm hoping that he's got alot more athleticism than Oto, although Oto has shown some flashes lately.


panndder said:
Are we talking about Sacar Anim or Sacar Amin? This is important.

http://espn.go.com/college-sports/b...kings/_/state/minnesota/class/2015/view/state
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Espn Rocks!
 

Josh now at 6'9" 230 does have exceptional hops 39 inch vertical per Josh. That puts him at the elite level as far as length ,strength, and vertical package for prep players
 


Gopher Warrior said:
Yes, I have seen him play. As far as EYBL advanced stats (which I prepared myself - there is not much out on websites publicly)... you might be surprised how similar they are to NCAA D-I stats. It's a far deeper topic, but there are some good predictors within EYBL numbers as to NCAA performance.

Definitely would not call him supremely athletic - he can get nasty with dunks and work at the rim - can elevate nicely inside... but is not a guy that will glide in from the perimeter gracefully.

His size.. to me he's a 4 who guards 4's without strong perimeter games and/or 5's at times.

You're right on the 'grow into the body'.. he's been a strong young dude. That obviously helps a lot at the high school level. Going up against length and height in the Big Ten will present different challenges. Early on I'd like to see him focused on defense... if he can help there then all is good.

Oto without the 3-point stroke? Maybe. ;) More of a boost / lift at the rim though.. Martin does do some impressive things at the rim. Also, I think he'll be a "go all out" type of hustler and a player who shows emotion - fans will like that.
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If it's true that he's added two inches, then he's a completely different player from the one you saw.
 

Oto without the 3-point stroke? Doesn't that already describe Oto? Jk... kinda. Anyway, Oto doesn't seem like a good comparison at all.

Gopher Warrior said:
Yes, I have seen him play. As far as EYBL advanced stats (which I prepared myself - there is not much out on websites publicly)... you might be surprised how similar they are to NCAA D-I stats. It's a far deeper topic, but there are some good predictors within EYBL numbers as to NCAA performance.

Definitely would not call him supremely athletic - he can get nasty with dunks and work at the rim - can elevate nicely inside... but is not a guy that will glide in from the perimeter gracefully.

His size.. to me he's a 4 who guards 4's without strong perimeter games and/or 5's at times.

You're right on the 'grow into the body'.. he's been a strong young dude. That obviously helps a lot at the high school level. Going up against length and height in the Big Ten will present different challenges. Early on I'd like to see him focused on defense... if he can help there then all is good.

Oto without the 3-point stroke? Maybe. ;) More of a boost / lift at the rim though.. Martin does do some impressive things at the rim. Also, I think he'll be a "go all out" type of hustler and a player who shows emotion - fans will like that.
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