UMKC shocker 80-66 victory over Missouri Tigers...


bc2211

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They also lost to Iowa by 32.

Predicted finish from CBS:
12https://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/teams/MIZZOU/missouri-tigers/
Missouri
Cuonzo Martin guided the Tigers to the NCAA Tournament for the second time in four years last season — but getting back there will be difficult given how much Missouri lost. Six players entered the transfer portal this offseason, which created a situation where the Tigers are returning just one player who averaged more than 6.2 points. There are some talented newcomers on the roster — among them Dajuan Gordon, who averaged 9.4 points and 5.5 rebounds as a sophomore at Kansas State. But what the Tigers lost exceeds what they brought in. So the most likely scenario has Missouri finishing 10th-or-worse in the SEC for the third time in a four-year span.

predicted 13th by ESPN.
 

alchemy2u

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They also lost to Iowa by 32.

Predicted finish from CBS:
12https://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/teams/MIZZOU/missouri-tigers/
Missouri
Cuonzo Martin guided the Tigers to the NCAA Tournament for the second time in four years last season — but getting back there will be difficult given how much Missouri lost. Six players entered the transfer portal this offseason, which created a situation where the Tigers are returning just one player who averaged more than 6.2 points. There are some talented newcomers on the roster — among them Dajuan Gordon, who averaged 9.4 points and 5.5 rebounds as a sophomore at Kansas State. But what the Tigers lost exceeds what they brought in. So the most likely scenario has Missouri finishing 10th-or-worse in the SEC for the third time in a four-year span.

predicted 13th by ESPN.
BFD.....

They beat a respectable P5 school and lost to a team that the trolls are saying doesn't have a single B1G player.
 

bc2211

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BFD.....

They beat a respectable P5 school and lost to a team that the trolls are saying doesn't have a single B1G player.
CBS and ESPN writers don’t respect Missouri very much.

a win is a win, but I’m not going to celebrate beating KC.
 



leib0039

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Maybe its just me but there seems to be an inordinate amount of TERRIBLE P5 teams this year. Just broad strokes you think B1G and everyone says its stacked, and it 100% is loaded up top. But man down low Wisc...maybe not good? Penn St got SMASHED by Umass, Northwestern looks awful, Nebraska already lost a buy game, the PAC12 looks like a disaster losing multiple buy games already. Mizzou is awful, Pitt is terrible. I dont think the Gophers are going to be a top 1/2 of the league team but a few weeks in I feel far more confident we can sneak into 4-6 B1G wins where as about a month ago I was hoping we would win 1-2.
 

Lakers612

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Maybe its just me but there seems to be an inordinate amount of TERRIBLE P5 teams this year. Just broad strokes you think B1G and everyone says its stacked, and it 100% is loaded up top. But man down low Wisc...maybe not good? Penn St got SMASHED by Umass, Northwestern looks awful, Nebraska already lost a buy game, the PAC12 looks like a disaster losing multiple buy games already. Mizzou is awful, Pitt is terrible. I dont think the Gophers are going to be a top 1/2 of the league team but a few weeks in I feel far more confident we can sneak into 4-6 B1G wins where as about a month ago I was hoping we would win 1-2.
Bill Simmons made an interesting comment on his podcast a few weeks ago about how there is finally enough NBA talent that the league could expand from 30 to 32 teams.

I hadn't really thought about professional league expansion in that way. But it makes sense. If there are 30 teams in the league, and only like 25 can actually build competitive roster because there is only a finite amount of talent available, why expand to 32? Now you have an extra 30 roster spots for a player pool that cannot makeup the difference.

Perhaps there is so much parity now days in NCAA basketball because the U.S. (and Canada, Australia, Europe, parts of Africa) are getting better at developing talent, and so now mid-majors of the world have a bigger pool of players to pull from.

I think a lot of this progress has to do with sports science. We just have way more information about what it takes to be a successful athlete (physically and mentally), plus with the addition of data analytics, we have now developed ways to level the playing field so to speak, so that players who would have struggled in the 80s and 90s, all of a sudden are put into situations to succeed despite going up against superior opponents.
 

bga1

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Maybe its just me but there seems to be an inordinate amount of TERRIBLE P5 teams this year. Just broad strokes you think B1G and everyone says its stacked, and it 100% is loaded up top. But man down low Wisc...maybe not good? Penn St got SMASHED by Umass, Northwestern looks awful, Nebraska already lost a buy game, the PAC12 looks like a disaster losing multiple buy games already. Mizzou is awful, Pitt is terrible. I dont think the Gophers are going to be a top 1/2 of the league team but a few weeks in I feel far more confident we can sneak into 4-6 B1G wins where as about a month ago I was hoping we would win 1-2.
This might be the net effect of free agency. Good players abandoning their program if it looks like they are not going to win. This could stratify college basketball in a bad way, making the rich, richer and poor poorer.
 

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Keep in mind, during the pre-game coach interview the KC coach said he was missing two starters for our game. Not sure if they played at Missouri though. Ill take wins anyway this year. We are building for the future, if they showcase Ben's coaching abilities and game management for prospective recruits, its a win win in my book.
 



dlnavra

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I think I must be in the minority, bc I just don't see this year's early games as so much different from previous years. There's a tendency to lock on to these surprise losses and decide it means a team is bad. I'd instead agree with the comments saying there's talent spread all over, and on a given night most any team can win a game. I don't, for example, think Nebraska is as bad as what appears based on the Western Illinois game. They have a freshman, projected top 20 NBA pick, Alonzo Verge was a good pickup from Arizona State, and their young big's will come along. Today's game vs. Creighton might show us more. Same for a bunch of other schools with similar bad losses.

Excited for the Gophers and should be fun to watch them all year, with really good coaching making an immediate impact. Battle will have some tough matchups though.
 

Holy Man

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I think I must be in the minority, bc I just don't see this year's early games as so much different from previous years. There's a tendency to lock on to these surprise losses and decide it means a team is bad. I'd instead agree with the comments saying there's talent spread all over, and on a given night most any team can win a game. I don't, for example, think Nebraska is as bad as what appears based on the Western Illinois game. They have a freshman, projected top 20 NBA pick, Alonzo Verge was a good pickup from Arizona State, and their young big's will come along. Today's game vs. Creighton might show us more. Same for a bunch of other schools with similar bad losses.

Excited for the Gophers and should be fun to watch them all year, with really good coaching making an immediate impact. Battle will have some tough matchups though.
Agreed. Way too much bashing of P5 middling teams. This is early. Roster turnover has been devastating in many places, if not as pronounced as ours. We're coming off a brutal year for players. Everyone is trying to get sea legs back and gel with new players and coaches. Completely agree that Nebraska won't be nearly as bad as a loss to Western Illinois suggests, and they have a lot more talent than the Gophers.

I don't know much about Missouri. Penn State is in a similar situation to the Gophers with more returning talent. Pitt may be "terrible" but the few minutes I saw of them, they had a lot more size and speed than the Gophers. The chaos may benefit the Gophers a bit over the season. Small sample size reveals a team that is pretty mature, which is much different than previous years. That maturity will be confirmed or denied after they get trounced by teams with much more talent, speed, and size. Will they be able to hang in there or not? That will make the difference in whether they can beat the Penn States and Northwesterns.
 

stocker08

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IMO....this just goes to show that the Gophers aren't the only team in a power five conference that have questions. But it definitely gives me some optimism that the Gophers won't be run over by bottom Big Ten teams. The Gophers have found a way to win....even when completely gassed. Now have wins over teams that have beaten Missouri and South Carolina. No reason why the Gophers can't exceed expectations and leapfrog a few B10 teams. With the way that Willis and Battle have played thus far....we have two legit go-to guys.
 

jamiche

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Before we get too pumped up about this year's team and UMKC's win over Mizzou, the gophers are fully capable of losing to any of the upcoming "cupcakes." I will be very surprised if we don't lose at least one of the "easy" games.
 




matt

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I think I must be in the minority, bc I just don't see this year's early games as so much different from previous years. There's a tendency to lock on to these surprise losses and decide it means a team is bad. I'd instead agree with the comments saying there's talent spread all over, and on a given night most any team can win a game. I don't, for example, think Nebraska is as bad as what appears based on the Western Illinois game. They have a freshman, projected top 20 NBA pick, Alonzo Verge was a good pickup from Arizona State, and their young big's will come along. Today's game vs. Creighton might show us more. Same for a bunch of other schools with similar bad losses.
I like the idea of these P5 teams being inordinately bad because it makes me feel better about the Gophers holding serve so far. It means they might be only a fairly bad P5 team instead of a really bad P5 team. I fully reserve the right to change my stance if the Gophers start to drop some of these games as well.
 

alchemy2u

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Agreed. Way too much bashing of P5 middling teams. This is early. Roster turnover has been devastating in many places, if not as pronounced as ours. We're coming off a brutal year for players. Everyone is trying to get sea legs back and gel with new players and coaches. Completely agree that Nebraska won't be nearly as bad as a loss to Western Illinois suggests, and they have a lot more talent than the Gophers.

I don't know much about Missouri. Penn State is in a similar situation to the Gophers with more returning talent. Pitt may be "terrible" but the few minutes I saw of them, they had a lot more size and speed than the Gophers. The chaos may benefit the Gophers a bit over the season. Small sample size reveals a team that is pretty mature, which is much different than previous years. That maturity will be confirmed or denied after they get trounced by teams with much more talent, speed, and size. Will they be able to hang in there or not? That will make the difference in whether they can beat the Penn States and Northwesterns.
Right. Many people seem to forget that for every win there is a loss. There many P5 teams that are not that bad, but they are just not as good as the top teams in the conference.
 

bc2211

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Agreed. Way too much bashing of P5 middling teams. This is early. Roster turnover has been devastating in many places, if not as pronounced as ours. We're coming off a brutal year for players. Everyone is trying to get sea legs back and gel with new players and coaches. Completely agree that Nebraska won't be nearly as bad as a loss to Western Illinois suggests, and they have a lot more talent than the Gophers.

I don't know much about Missouri. Penn State is in a similar situation to the Gophers with more returning talent. Pitt may be "terrible" but the few minutes I saw of them, they had a lot more size and speed than the Gophers. The chaos may benefit the Gophers a bit over the season. Small sample size reveals a team that is pretty mature, which is much different than previous years. That maturity will be confirmed or denied after they get trounced by teams with much more talent, speed, and size. Will they be able to hang in there or not? That will make the difference in whether they can beat the Penn States and Northwesterns.
https://www.barttorvik.com/returningmins.php

Minnesota is 356th of 358 in returning minutes, and I think this was calculated including inhen’s minutes. Not all minutes are equal of course, but objectively only 2 teams can make the case that their turnover is as pronounced.

(Unsolicited) Factchecking aside, Missouri is 351 on this list. To me that’s a legit comparison point: neither Minnesota or Missouri have any experience together as a unit, however BJ was able to coach us to a win. As someone pointed out, though, KC was missing two impact players when we faced them, so who knows.

One more nugget maybe only I will find interesting. Marquette is 350 on the list and just beat a Kofi-less top ten team.
 

alchemy2u

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Here are the box scores of the Gopher game and the Missu game. Looks like the same basic lineup, no magical new players that helped them beat Missu. Shemarri played but only scored 7 points.

Looks to me like the Minnesota Defense is what beat KC.

Screen Shot 2021-11-16 at 9.12.09 PM.png

Screen Shot 2021-11-16 at 9.12.24 PM.png
 

howeda7

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Before we get too pumped up about this year's team and UMKC's win over Mizzou, the gophers are fully capable of losing to any of the upcoming "cupcakes." I will be very surprised if we don't lose at least one of the "easy" games.
I won't be "very" surprised. I think WKU and Princeton are far better than any of our remaining cupcakes. But I still won't be shocked if stub our toe on one. UW-Green Bay is probably the most likely.
 

minnyrules11

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I won't be "very" surprised. I think WKU and Princeton are far better than any of our remaining cupcakes. But I still won't be shocked if stub our toe on one. UW-Green Bay is probably the most likely.
Wisconsin beat them by almost 40 points. No just no.
 

bc2211

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Here are the box scores of the Gopher game and the Missu game. Looks like the same basic lineup, no magical new players that helped them beat Missu. Shemarri played but only scored 7 points.

Looks to me like the Minnesota Defense is what beat KC.

View attachment 15371

View attachment 15372

Thanks for looking at the box scores to see who played. We can agree that Minnesota has outperformed Missouri thus far in the year.
 
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You sure have some magical snark towards people who try to stay objective and bring data/information to a topic.

Thanks for looking at the box scores to see who played. We can agree that Minnesota has outperformed Missouri thus far in the year. Hooray.
I appreciated the post. Someone made a post implying that we only won because 2 starters for KC didn't play. The box score shows me a little different picture than that.
 

bc2211

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I appreciated the post. Someone made a post implying that we only won because 2 starters for KC didn't play. The box score shows me a little different picture than that.
I appreciate the box scores, and fair enough.. I honestly wrote my reply thinking it was a quote of my post about returning minutes (it was not). Will edit and rescind.
 




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