Twelve Years Later - Was firing Glen Mason the right call?

[Gophers_4life]

And how many Governor's Victory Bells?

Yeah, but who cares about that made up trophy??

Minnesota should be playing Penn State in football as few as times as possible. The programs are as different, geographically, culturally, and historically, as Alabama and Oregon State, as Syracuse and Arizona.

Sure, we'll take the $50M per year from the Big Ten, because in part that PSU is in the conference, but we don't want to play them in football very often.

We need to play the teams in the West. In the East, Indiana is a good match. Rutgers and Maryland are fair as well. We need to avoid Michigan, Michigan State, Ohio St, and Penn St, as much as possible.

 

[GophersInIowa]

That is a poor metric for success.

This year’s Gopher team is 6-6 and may finish with a win against a top 25 team.

2006 and 2017 Wisconsin were 12-1 and 13-1 respectively with one win each against a team that finished in the top 25.

Ten seasons in a row of the former empties the stadium and gets you canned.

Ten seasons of the latter fills the stadium and gets you a bronze statue out front.

Wins against season ending top 25 teams is not a good way to measure success.

That wasn't my point. People who defend Mason like to point at his big wins. The reality is he didn't have a single win over a team that finished in the top 25 over his last 7 years. Winning at Ohio St in 2000 and Michigan in 2005 is always fun. But neither of those teams were great. Ohio St went 8-4, Michigan went 7-5. The year the Gophers beat Ohio St., they also lost to Ohio at home.

 

[God]

I think everyone acknowledges the successes of Mason, the pro Mason guys seem to think that Mason was A) Either capable of producing better results or B) Were satisfied with the results he was producing. The anti Mason guys appreciate what Mason did, but A) don't think he was capable of better results and/or B) Were not satisfied with the results he was producing.

I agree with your statement. However, I think the piece that is missing is that a lot of us felt he was never provided the tools to succeed. The dome was awful, bad practice facilities and not enough financial support for hiring top assistants. I would argue that Kill and more so Fleck (had or) have these tools in place, so I would expect they would be held to a higher standard.

 

[alchemy2u]

I like Mason and appreciate what he did for the program, but he had settled into a place where he was not recruiting good enough players and was not competitive with the better teams in the B1G. When we did win a big game, it felt like we stole it. It got sickening seeing the other team finish their TD celebrations before our defenders reached the end zone.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[A_Slab_of_Bacon]

I think Illinois is suffering from a "hey who are we gonna hire" thing .... maybe MN should have thought of that around that time too.

 

[gopher7]

Firing him was the right call. Watching his offenses from 2003 - 2005 was really fun, however that type of recruiting did not keep up and you could see things trending down, and he never really did recruit a competitive defense. Also, it was clear he had emotionally checked out.

 

[cjbfbp]

I didn't vote, because the correct option isn't listed among the choices. The correct answer is simply "Yes" with no qualifiers.

Actually, the correct answer is "Who cares? That was 12 years ago and it's very unlikely that Mason would still be here anyway if he wasn't fired then."

 

[btowngopher]

The Gopher football team has had a record of 68 wins and 82 losses since Mason was fired.

Mason had a record of 62-57 and he still apparently has a lot of energy, and passion for football so I suspect he would have done better than 68-82 had he been kept with the TCF and the Village to recruit to. Mason knew how to to get the running game going an that equated to winning most games where Minnesota had more talent, most by 30-40 points.

If Mason had been given the budgets of Kill and PJ he would have done even better, with the staff on the D side.

The only answer is that the program would have been better off keeping Mason. the results spoke clearly, it does not matter what I think. The intent of Maturi and others have no role in this. (Sh*t in one hand and wish in the other.. .., if wishes and buts were candy and nuts....") results matter

If PJF can blow this out of the water is a different discussion.

So how long should we have kept Mason to see if he could do better than fourth? Forever? Because the next guy might do worse?

 

[Panthadad2]

So how long should we have kept Mason to see if he could do better than fourth? Forever? Because the next guy might do worse?

You are correct of course on the standings, but it's a little misleading. The Gophers were an OT loss against WI in 1999 and an epic end-of-game meltdown against MI in 2003 away from tieing for the Big Ten Championship in those years. Mason had them soooooo close to adding a title those two years...closer than the Gophers have been in any year since the 1960s. That's what was so frustrating about Mason's tenture; but also so frustrating with his firing and the subsequent dumpster fire.

 

[BleedGopher]

Firing him was the right move at the right time. His heart was not in the job anymore.

I look forward to seeing how the opinion changes a year from now when we have a poll asking "Was firing Glen Mason the right call 13 years ago?"

Go Gophers!!

 

[imthewalrus]

I do know one thing: TCF BANK was an idea that had become a reality BECAUSE Mason was extended and signed long-term in 2005 and then helped the U get legislative backing and bonding authority from the legislators. He was bought out and fired the next season. But, without Mason on board...there would have been NO new on campus stadium. Thank you Coach Mason.

To those of you who claim Mason's recruiting sucked: Mason turned out a heck of a lot more All-American players than all the coaches who have followed him...and the coaches who came before him starting with Cal Stoll. (Murray... The man obviously turned out a lot of All-American players. I miss all those All-American players that Murray & Mason recruited, coached and turned out.)

The administration at the University of Minnesota AND the fans who longed for Mason's removal have insured that Minnesota Football has been EXACTLY what Minnesota Football has so richly deserved to be in the past dozen years and will continue to be going forward. Some years have been and sometimes will be better than other seasons. Was true for Murray & Mason and that did continue under Kill/TC and will be for Fleck. University of Minnesota Football is exactly what it deserves to be...no more...and no less. Beating Big Ten Football teams is what Big Ten Football Teams have to do earn any respect.

Over the many decades I have been a Gopher Football fan, I. have come to realize that the ONLY way to judge University of Minnesota Football is to keep track of the number of Big Ten wins and the Big Ten losses. That is the only way to determine what kind of a Big Ten Football Program the U of M Football Program is. It is exact. It uses precise numbers. There is NO guessing...spinning or excuse making involved in my method. It is really the only way to rank a Big Ten Coach...Big Ten recruiting...Big Ten coaching...Big Ten competence...Big Ten ranking.

Congratulations to the GOPHER for qualifying for a bowl game and winning that bowl game in this 2018 season. Big Ten wins...and bowl wins help. Big Ten losses and not qualifying for a bowl game hurts. Beat the stinking badger and the stinking hawkeye, GOPHER! This year's seniors won 9 Big Ten games in the past 3 seasons and 2 bowl games. Hats off to them! They all played for multiple coaches. I will remember them.

 

[btowngopher]

Looking at the roster, I don't think the gophers were in any position to do a whole lot for at least a couple years following 2006 whether Mason stayed or not.

 

[KillmeNow]

I was a huge Mason supporter back in the day, and would we have been better in the short term had we kept him on? It's possible, but it's also possible we'd have been worse off. Mason seemed, imo, to be like Tubby on the bb side of things, mailing it in. Both could have benefitted from better facilities and higher pay for assistants and maybe both would have tried harder had they been given those things? But they weren't, and they didn't. As soon as we brought in Kill, I knew we made the right decision to get rid of Mason when we did. Now it didn't work out with Kill, but minus his health issues I think it would have, but now I think we have found a guy who can take us to the next level and had we kept Mason on, that may never have come about. Mason accomplished what we brought him in to do, for the most part, he made us competitive again, and he got us close enough to winning a Conf Title that he made it seem possible, which made the job a more attractive job, made it possible to attract a guy like Fleck. It was a tough transition, but it was a lot less painful than it could have been, as other programs have suffered through longer rough spells and multiple crappy coaches, including us, before Mason.

 

[Zeppelin Gopher]

Mason was the Gophers coach 10 years, not 12. We finished tied for 4th in the conference in 1999 and 2003. He won Floyd 4 times, the Axe twice, and the Jug once. He also won the regular season finale each year 1998 through 2001.

Haha I was gonna say, there were so many inaccuracies and made up stats in that post

 

[2727Gopher]

Haha I was gonna say, there were so many inaccuracies and made up stats in that post

They were "alternative facts".

 

[2727Gopher]

There were many members of this forum who were at Joe Sensor's in Roseville watching the game. After the offense sputtered on the second series of 3Q, at least three of us who were seated together all looked at each other and said at the same time "38 points isn't enough."

I've told this story before on this board, but it's worth mentioning again. I took a trip to Chicago that year with someone who I had been dating for a few months and it coincided with the Bowl game, so that night, I went to a Gopher bar near Wrigley Field to watch the game while she went to a comedy show down the block. She came back to the bar just as the Gophers kicked the FG to go up 38-7 in the middle of the 3rd quarter and after seeing the score, she tried to talk me into leaving so we could do something else since the game was a blowout. I refused, saying that if she knew the Gophers at all, she'd realize this game was far from over. Now, 12 years later, she definitely understands.

 

[Gophers_4life]

I've told this story before on this board, but it's worth mentioning again. I took a trip to Chicago that year with someone who I had been dating for a few months and it coincided with the Bowl game, so that night, I went to a Gopher bar near Wrigley Field to watch the game while she went to a comedy show down the block. She came back to the bar just as the Gophers kicked the FG to go up 38-7 in the middle of the 3rd quarter and after seeing the score, she tried to talk me into leaving so we could do something else since the game was a blowout. I refused, saying that if she knew the Gophers at all, she'd realize this game was far from over. Now, 12 years later, she definitely understands.

Nice that you still keep in touch with this person after 12 years!

 

[Ope3]

Looking at the roster, I don't think the gophers were in any position to do a whole lot for at least a couple years following 2006 whether Mason stayed or not.

JJ Watt and Greg Jones (Mich St Def player of the year) were Mason signees that bailed after he was axed.

 

[die hard gopher]

JJ Watt and Greg Jones (Mich St Def player of the year) were Mason signees that bailed after he was axed.

Dang, never knew Greg Jones was committed here.

 

[btowngopher]

JJ Watt and Greg Jones (Mich St Def player of the year) were Mason signees that bailed after he was axed.

Yeah but who knows what they become if they stayed here. Watt was being recruited to play TE.

 

[God]

Dang, never knew Greg Jones was committed here.

Rumor was that Lauranitas would’ve come here if Mason stayed. That’s what I recall, but who knows.

 

[Panthadad2]

Rumor was that Lauranitas would’ve come here if Mason stayed. That’s what I recall, but who knows.

Mason just shared this story with Barrerio recently. He talked about how he lost Lauranitas when Ohio State invited him on campus very late in the process and immediately got him to flip. It was an interesting take...might be on podcast.

 

[GopherVotary]

Rumor was that Lauranitas would’ve come here if Mason stayed. That’s what I recall, but who knows.

Laurinaitis was part of tOSU’s 2005 recruiting class. Mason wasn’t fired until nearly two years later.

 

[MennoSota]

Mason just shared this story with Barrerio recently. He talked about how he lost Lauranitas when Ohio State invited him on campus very late in the process and immediately got him to flip. It was an interesting take...might be on podcast.

I heard the same show. Yep, Lauranitas jumped ship at the last moment. Other MN coaches thought he was a lock, but the f&ckeyes got him.

 

[#2Gopher]

Mason was a decent coach who burned many bridges with high school coaches in Minnesota. That is a known fact. He appeared to be looking for other jobs while in Minnesota and of course everyone was up in arms about that. Mason is a good television and radio commentary and I believe he found his home. I believe he also realizes the mistakes he made once he got out of coaching watching Kill and Fleck take over. I don't believe he liked Brewster or perhaps any coach that would have replaced him. Mason is history and I'm surprised we're dealing with something like this that happened years ago.

 

[oak_street1981]

Mason was a decent coach who burned many bridges with high school coaches in Minnesota. That is a known fact. He appeared to be looking for other jobs while in Minnesota and of course everyone was up in arms about that. Mason is a good television and radio commentary and I believe he found his home. I believe he also realizes the mistakes he made once he got out of coaching watching Kill and Fleck take over. I don't believe he liked Brewster or perhaps any coach that would have replaced him. Mason is history and I'm surprised we're dealing with something like this that happened years ago.

The great Minnesota HS Coach relationship narrative rises yet again! Teacher lounge egomaniacs!


The Minnesota HS football coaches are not going to make or break any any U of M coach, the high on their horse types are going to keep going to Notre Dame, OSU, Iowa Wisconsin, and even lowly Nebraska (thank you Lakeville North 2018 ), so let us stop beating that dead horse. The third tier Ohio and Florida guys Mason used to bring in were better than most the great Minnesota HS coaches were supposed to deliver. Mason was correct to deflect these a'holes.

This topic of the great HS coaches fading. When Fleck starts winning big,most of those those guys will all crawl to MN for the ego stroking they need, and the players will decide on their own with most signing with PJ.

 

[Bayfield Gopher]

Mason did OK with MN kids. Guys like Spaeth, Utecht, the Barber and Sherel boys, Decker, Setterstrom, Tapeh, Melander, Triplett, Willie V, Schletcht, Nystrom to name a few.

 

[#2Gopher]

The great Minnesota HS Coach relationship narrative rises yet again! Teacher lounge egomaniacs!


The Minnesota HS football coaches are not going to make or break any any U of M coach, the high on their horse types are going to keep going to Notre Dame, OSU, Iowa Wisconsin, and even lowly Nebraska (thank you Lakeville North 2018 ), so let us stop beating that dead horse. The third tier Ohio and Florida guys Mason used to bring in were better than most the great Minnesota HS coaches were supposed to deliver. Mason was correct to deflect these a'holes.

This topic of the great HS coaches fading. When Fleck starts winning big,most of those those guys will all crawl to MN for the ego stroking they need, and the players will decide on their own with most signing with PJ.

Say what you want, bottom line is that Mason had communication issues with people in general.

 

[Some guy]

The great Minnesota HS Coach relationship narrative rises yet again! Teacher lounge egomaniacs!


The Minnesota HS football coaches are not going to make or break any any U of M coach, the high on their horse types are going to keep going to Notre Dame, OSU, Iowa Wisconsin, and even lowly Nebraska (thank you Lakeville North 2018 ), so let us stop beating that dead horse. The third tier Ohio and Florida guys Mason used to bring in were better than most the great Minnesota HS coaches were supposed to deliver. Mason was correct to deflect these a'holes.

This topic of the great HS coaches fading. When Fleck starts winning big,most of those those guys will all crawl to MN for the ego stroking they need, and the players will decide on their own with most signing with PJ.

I agree HS coaches thing is overblown.
Perception happens based on a couple of coaches.
I personally know about the same amount of coaches that disliked mason as Brewster. Who disliked Claeys and kill about the same as who disliked Fleck or mason.

One thing that is true. Ron Stolski and Dave Nelson Love Kill. Don’t know Stolskis connection, but Dave Nelson’s son was a GA for Kill.

When two of the most involved/legendary coaches in the association love one coach it creates the perception that everyone loves them better than the coaches who came before. I know just as many coaches who disliked Kill as I know coaches who disliked Brewster/Mason.
Mason
Kill
Claeys
Fleck


All coaches who are good HS coaches want the Best for their kids, and I think most generally like all 4 of those names.