Tubby speaks...

[GoldInDirt]

Minnesota Roll Call for Basketball

I think this is a State of Minnesota roll call for basketball. I said a while back that I thought Tubby would stay and that this speculation would expedite design and construction of the new practice facility, among other things needed to build and sustain a national level program.

Regardless of who our coach is, we individually and collectively need to decide what type of program we want and whether we're going to support it. A national level program requires good practice facilities, a good arena, and well paid coaches. We need these to bring in national level recruits. When Tubby is no longer here, the same question will remain - will we support a national level program.

This is a gut check for the University of Minnesota and all basketball fans to identify how badly we want a national program and if we're going to support those efforts and that currently includes supporting Tubby's efforts. We're not talking spending crazy money like a few programs, but a new practice facility among things are needed to build a national level program. If I were Tubby, or any national level coach for that matter, if my goal was to build a national level program I would require both financial, physical and verbal support.

This coaching debate is actually a question for us and me, as much or more then it is about Tubby. I have season basketball tickets, I will contribute some money to the practice facility, I will write the President and AD and tell them that good athletic facilities and athletic programs help the overall University's mission and that includes the academic mission. I also support greater financial support overall for the University as it helps create new jobs and companies in Minnesota that is the foundation for an upper tier state and country. I want to be the best in basketball, athletics in general, academics and I want our state to be a leader and not a follower. I need to verbally and financially support those missions.

 

[Go Gophs]

Umm...take a step back. Tubby leaving doesn't signal the end of anything other of his time as Minnesota coach. If another high profile name (eg..Flip Saunders) becomes coach, I don't know how much things will change in terms of talent. If you're convinced that Tubby is our only chance, then you better find another team to root for because got news for you, there are a lot of other good basketball coaches out there.

Don't be so fatalistic. Just let the process play out and see where the chips fall.

I know there are other good coaches out there. Just that I have no faith Maturi would either be able to make the right choice, or that they would come here. Tubby landed in his lap.
Another crappy "make a name for himself" type coach like Monson WOULD be fatal. Just sick of being a second fiddle program for the last how many years. With Tubby, we are relevant and place big names want to play. I am of the belief that with Tubby, we are on the verge of becoming a power in the BT.
I agree though that Flip would probably be pretty close to as good as Tubby recruiting wise. Although I really don't know if there is a bigger name in college sports than Tubby Smith. Would Flip come here though? Would he want to get back into coaching? Sure didn't sound like it the last time this job opened up.

 

[ShowinGoldyLove]

Tubby landed in his lap...Sure didn't sound like it the last time this job opened up.

2 things; I don't think Tubby exactly "landed" in Maturi's lap, Joel actively went after him. And 2, Flip was in the playoff chase with the Pistons last time the job opened up, not exactly in a position to express interest in the U of M job.

 

[Go Gophs]

OK. Well, maybe you are making me feel just a little bit better. Thanks.
Just hate to hear that there is even a decent chance of the beloved one leaving us. That is all.

 

[MRJ]

I know there are other good coaches out there. Just that I have no faith Maturi would either be able to make the right choice, or that they would come here. Tubby landed in his lap.
Another crappy "make a name for himself" type coach like Monson WOULD be fatal. Just sick of being a second fiddle program for the last how many years. With Tubby, we are relevant and place big names want to play. I am of the belief that with Tubby, we are on the verge of becoming a power in the BT.
I agree though that Flip would probably be pretty close to as good as Tubby recruiting wise. Although I really don't know if there is a bigger name in college sports than Tubby Smith. Would Flip come here though? Would he want to get back into coaching? Sure didn't sound like it the last time this job opened up.

Agree with what the previous poster said. Flip was in the middle of the season with the Pistons and was looking like a potential NBA champion coach at the time. This heavily impacted his decision not to discuss the Gopher job, although even at the time there were whispers that he had interest.

Lately, he's been seen around the U a lot according to some sources. His son is on the current staff and he lives in town. So do I think that Flip would come? Yeah, honestly I do and I think he would be as close to a slam dunk hire as we could hope for in the case of Tubby leaving. I don't mean to indicate that I want Tubby gone or that I don't think the administration might drop the ball if he goes.

But Flip will almost certainly be available. And it would only make logical sense that he would be interested in the job and be a front runner.

 

[Friend Of Tubby]

Minnesota Basketball

The Gophers have been a tough opponent ever since I first went to Purdue in 1969.

Not every year, not every game but MOST years, MOST games (particularly at The Barn), the Gophers are/were a very good basketball team.

 

[Holy Man]

NBA to NCAA

Okay, I am buying that should the undesirable happen and Tubby bolts to what he or his wife believe is better situation for them, Flip is the slam dunk hire.

What I am not convinced of is whether he would be a great college coach. He is clearly a top professional coach. College is a different situation. I do not know any situations in which a coach went from being a primarily pro coach to successful college coaching. Obviosuly, there are a number of situations where guys have gone the college-pro-college route (Pitino, Calipari) but strictly pro-college. The only one I recall is John Mcleod at Notre Dame. That did not work out well at all.

 

[Maroon Shower]

Agree with what the previous poster said. Flip was in the middle of the season with the Pistons and was looking like a potential NBA champion coach at the time. This heavily impacted his decision not to discuss the Gopher job, although even at the time there were whispers that he had interest.

Lately, he's been seen around the U a lot according to some sources. His son is on the current staff and he lives in town. So do I think that Flip would come? Yeah, honestly I do and I think he would be as close to a slam dunk hire as we could hope for in the case of Tubby leaving. I don't mean to indicate that I want Tubby gone or that I don't think the administration might drop the ball if he goes.

But Flip will almost certainly be available. And it would only make logical sense that he would be interested in the job and be a front runner.

To me, this would be the ideal situation. I know this is getting way ahead of the game, but if Tubby will be entertaining offers to leave every off season, I think that definitely hurts the program. It gets tougher to sell your program to a kid when he's not even sure you're buying in. I would prefer the stability of Flip, who, by most accounts, would consider this his dream job.

I think the merits of Flip vs. Tubby as coaches is debatable. I would think Tubby may be a slightly more effective recruiter (although we have no way of knowing) and probably a stronger defensive coach. I would think Flip would have a chance to inject some energy into this anemic offense and possibly make some better personnel decisions. The comparison is close enough that "one of us" aspect that Flip would bring tips the scales IMO.

 

[GopherGod]

Okay, I am buying that should the undesirable happen and Tubby bolts to what he or his wife believe is better situation for them, Flip is the slam dunk hire.

What I am not convinced of is whether he would be a great college coach. He is clearly a top professional coach. College is a different situation. I do not know any situations in which a coach went from being a primarily pro coach to successful college coaching. Obviosuly, there are a number of situations where guys have gone the college-pro-college route (Pitino, Calipari) but strictly pro-college. The only one I recall is John Mcleod at Notre Dame. That did not work out well at all.

That would be a valid concern as I to have wondered how a coach would do who has never had to recruit in his life, much less deal with all the other issues college coaches have to deal with such as making sure your players pass their classes, etc...

 

[Go Gophs]

Flip coached college ball way back. I think he would do very well as a college coach, not worried about that in the least.

Staight from Wikipedia:

Saunders began his coaching career at Golden Valley Lutheran College where he compiled a 92-13 record, including a perfect 56-0 mark at home, in four seasons. In 1981, he became an assistant coach at his alma mater, Minnesota, and helped guide the Golden Gophers to the Big Ten championship that season. After five seasons at Minnesota, he became an assistant coach at the University of Tulsa where he worked for two seasons before heading to the pro ranks.

 

[MRJ]

Okay, I am buying that should the undesirable happen and Tubby bolts to what he or his wife believe is better situation for them, Flip is the slam dunk hire.

What I am not convinced of is whether he would be a great college coach. He is clearly a top professional coach. College is a different situation. I do not know any situations in which a coach went from being a primarily pro coach to successful college coaching. Obviosuly, there are a number of situations where guys have gone the college-pro-college route (Pitino, Calipari) but strictly pro-college. The only one I recall is John Mcleod at Notre Dame. That did not work out well at all.

Yeah, there would probably be some questions with him in the beginning. But he has a proven track record of success at each of his coaching stops, regardless of what level he was at. His connections to the NBA would almost certainly impress recruits and he is a coach that would be hard pressed to leave for another job, no matter where it is because he would coaching at both he and his son's alma mater's. All of those factors add up to a very impressive resume.

Would he be the right man for the job? Maybe. But the point is that if he was as interested as some believe he would be, his resume is as strong if not stronger than most candidates, plus he's local. All of that adds up to a probable hire given the correct circumstance.

 

[leftyslefty]

Flip is the whole package........

he can recruit, coach, make public appearances, and maintain relationships (except with maybe McHale)

 

[calminnfan]

Flip would be fine at the U and would be a good one, especially for Cobb, but Tubby is not going anywhere at this time so talk of Flip really is misplaced IMO.

What would not surprise me is if after the pro season is over, McHale steps down and Taylor opens his checkbook to Flip with a huge apology.

One thing about Flip that may be a negative in that regard is that the reason the TWolves let him go was that he lost the players and he did not seem to have great authority over them in Detroit. Otherwise, why is he still not coaching?

 

[Go Gophs]

I almost wonder why Tubby hasn't talked to him about being one of his assistants. Maybe that would have created a power struggle or what have you. But those 2 together would be great on the recruiting trail I'll bet.

 

[Plinnius]

Flip coached college ball way back. I think he would do very well as a college coach, not worried about that in the least.

Staight from Wikipedia:

Saunders began his coaching career at Golden Valley Lutheran College where he compiled a 92-13 record, including a perfect 56-0 mark at home, in four seasons. In 1981, he became an assistant coach at his alma mater, Minnesota, and helped guide the Golden Gophers to the Big Ten championship that season. After five seasons at Minnesota, he became an assistant coach at the University of Tulsa where he worked for two seasons before heading to the pro ranks.

Yes, that shows he onced coached in college.

 

[MRJ]

Flip would be fine at the U and would be a good one, especially for Cobb, but Tubby is not going anywhere at this time so talk of Flip really is misplaced IMO.

What would not surprise me is if after the pro season is over, McHale steps down and Taylor opens his checkbook to Flip with a huge apology.

One thing about Flip that may be a negative in that regard is that the reason the TWolves let him go was that he lost the players and he did not seem to have great authority over them in Detroit. Otherwise, why is he still not coaching?

Absolutely agree. But if Tubby is going to be lukewarm, then there is no reason for us not to talk about it. After all, sounds like Tubby might be looking for the bigger, better deal. He's clearly playing a game here and if the conditions are right, he'll bolt tomorrow.

To answer your question regarding flip, I'm not sure why he's not coaching. His record is certainly good enough to indicate he should be in the coaching biz somewhere.

 

[Bronko Nagurski Gopher]

Nicely put. I think you hit the nail on the head. He wants to maintain leverage and I think that when he said he will be here for a long time that he might have felt oops I gave to much away. He wants that practice facility really bad. I don't think we will stop hearing rumors until we break ground on that. I for one really appreciate the foundation he is laying here at MN for a future program that will be good for a long time. He is establishing us as a name program by winning each year then he gets us a first class practice facility. Both of these things will put us on solid footing for a very long time. The longer he stays the better our chances of hiring a name coach when he does retire or leave.

nice follow up comments. i fully agree.

 

[Bronko Nagurski Gopher]

I don't like this at all. I understand the whole "never say never" philosophy, because personally, I kind of have the same philosophy. But to be honest, he's making it sound like he's settling for us. I don't like it when coaches hold mindsets along the lines of "well, I like it here. Just not as much as anywhere else for the right price."

Maybe he is just using it as a bargaining chip. Maybe it will work out in the end. But if he wants to "duck out in the night" all the while acting like he is sincere with recruits and making these public appearances while "never saying never" just so he can cover his hind end when he leaves, then he should just say "I'm on the market and this is how it is." Either way, he's playing us and I don't like it at all.

In other words, he's being honest, but not really being honest all at the same time. At this point, wouldn't be surprised if he went to the highest bidder. Thought he was committed, but I guess it does come down to everybody having a price.

well, you know what they say mrj........DON'T HATE THE PLAYER, HATE THE GAME!

 

[Bronko Nagurski Gopher]

You may well be correct in that assessment. But my point is this: I don't like being used as a bargaining chip under any circumstance, whether it be with coaches or otherwise. This is why I have been so critical of professional sports franchises over the years. It's just a personal view of mine, that's all.

To me, it smacks of insincerity and personally, I have better things to do then to be led on by coaches, players or whole organizations (such as what the Twins and Vikings have tried to pull in recent years). If you want to go, then go. But don't try to cover your butt just so you can feel good about yourself in the end.

again mrj i will just say: "don't hate the player, hate the game." it is just part of highly competitive college and pro sports and is not likely to ever go away. just have to try and "roll with it" i guess.

 

[ShowinGoldyLove]

again mrj i will just say: "don't hate the player, hate the game." it is just part of highly competitive college and pro sports and is not likely to ever go away. just have to try and "roll with it" i guess.

Bronko, I appreciate your posts...but you don't have to quote the entire post when you respond to something, it just takes that much longer to page through. Thanks!

 

[tjgopher]

To answer your question regarding flip, I'm not sure why he's not coaching. His record is certainly good enough to indicate he should be in the coaching biz somewhere.

Flip is not coaching because he's being paid over $5 million by the Pistons this year (the final year of his contract). If he got another job, then the Pistons would not have to pay him. So, Flip's choice was to sit back and relax for a year, collecting $5+ million from the Pistons - OR - sign on to coach somewhere (probably for less than $5 million) and in essence LOSE MONEY while he's working 80 hours per week. Easy choice.

I don't think there's any doubt he will coach somewhere next year.

 

[Bronko Nagurski Gopher]

Bronko, I appreciate your posts...but you don't have to quote the entire post when you respond to something, it just takes that much longer to page through. Thanks!

thanks and i appreciate your honesty, but didn't you already give this same posting etiquette lecture to Friend of Tubby (FOT) as well?!

it is what it is bro!

 

[ShowinGoldyLove]

thanks and i appreciate your honesty, but didn't you already give this same posting etiquette lecture to Friend of Tubby (FOT) as well?!

it is what it is bro!

Yes I did, and he has thankfully begun to follow the posting etiquette. In this thread alone you quoted 3 huge paragraphs and responded with one line answers!

 

[MN Gopher Fan]

I decided to skip a lot of the comments here because they're redundant...but I trust Tubby in what he says that you can never say never because stuff happens. I think he really does like it here and will stay here until we piss him off and he gets another golden opportunity. Tubby is here for at least another 3 years if we don't get a new practice facility because he knows he's got some really good young talent coming in. I'm not going to say anything about the "what if" question of him bolting, because extreme anger would come about...

 

[Bronko Nagurski Gopher]

what can i say. technology scares me.....guess i am stuck in my ways!

 

[MRJ]

again mrj i will just say: "don't hate the player, hate the game." it is just part of highly competitive college and pro sports and is not likely to ever go away. just have to try and "roll with it" i guess.

Yeah, I see your point. I guess I could state it this way: I hate the player who plays the game like one of their players plays the game. Err, um, does that make any sense??

Seriously though, it's just a personal thing with me. My stance is if you are straightforward and honest with me right from the start, I'll tend to believe you and be less pissed off. I also understand that Tubby is probably being a lot more straight up with Maturi and Bruinicks than he is with any of us. After all, we're just part of the general public.

But I tend to have a kneejerk reaction when somebody tries to use word games with me to cover up what's actually going on. Enough of the PC language. Let me know the truth and I'll deal with it. However, I also understand that in cases like this, that probably isn't the best policy.