Tubby Smith says he felt he stayed too long at Minnesota

[BleedGopher]

per USA Today:

Tubby Smith calls it "The Dip." It is that turning point in a coach's tenure when the trajectory of the program, at least in terms of public perception, steers downward, whispers from critics turn to shouts and Internet rumors spread like wildfire.

When a coach's name begins to circulate as one on the so-called hot seat, it's hard to reverse course, much like swimming upstream. Smith felt he stayed too long at Minnesota and that, in the end, not even a victory in the 2013 NCAA tournament proved enough to save his job.

"Whenever you hear those rumblings, you have to make sure to keep your ear to the ground," Smith, now at Texas Tech, told USA TODAY Sports. "In every organization, when you see things change, it's already coming down, it may be too late. You've got to be proactive. You've got to know when to move."

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sport...h-travis-ford-tom-crean-dana-altman/25056875/

Go Gophers!!

 

[Bad Gopher]

per USA Today:

Tubby Smith calls it "The Dip." It is that turning point in a coach's tenure when the trajectory of the program, at least in terms of public perception, steers downward, whispers from critics turn to shouts and Internet rumors spread like wildfire.

When a coach's name begins to circulate as one on the so-called hot seat, it's hard to reverse course, much like swimming upstream. Smith felt he stayed too long at Minnesota and that, in the end, not even a victory in the 2013 NCAA tournament proved enough to save his job.

"Whenever you hear those rumblings, you have to make sure to keep your ear to the ground," Smith, now at Texas Tech, told USA TODAY Sports. "In every organization, when you see things change, it's already coming down, it may be too late. You've got to be proactive. You've got to know when to move."

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sport...h-travis-ford-tom-crean-dana-altman/25056875/

Go Gophers!!

Perhaps the trick is to avoid The Dip or the turning point or whatever you want to call it. When your program loses momentum, who do you blame? The buck stops at the top.

 

[mplarson7]

In before s*** storm.

 

[bga1]

Perhaps the trick is to avoid The Dip or the turning point or whatever you want to call it. When your program loses momentum, who do you blame? The buck stops at the top.

The problem is not the dip. People here will accept the dip if it is preceded by a sufficient rise. Tubby never got above 6th place or .500 in conference so there was never the high achievement that we had hoped for to hang our hats on when things didn't look as good. Clem -for example had a number of troughs in his tenure but also provided the runs to the top or near it.

 

[Maximus]

The problem is not the dip. People here will accept the dip if it is preceded by a sufficient rise. Tubby never got above 6th place or .500 in conference so there was never the high achievement that we had hoped for to hang our hats on when things didn't look as good. Clem -for example had a number of troughs in his tenure but also provided the runs to the top or near it.

It's been so long since I looked at those vacated years for Clem. He had two huge dips following the Elite Eight (12-16, 5-13 the year after) and the final four (15-15, 6-10 the year after).

Clem finished above .500 in the Big Ten in six of his last 7 years. Totally forgot that. Also finished 11-7 in the Big Ten in '93 and still didn't make the tournament.

 

[bleedsmaroonandgold]

Unfortunately both Tubby and Pitino had pretty bad dips this year. I'll echo what was said earlier, I think he would have survived the low points if he would have provided higher high points. If the two 6-12 years had been sandwiched between a couple of top 4 B1G finishes and Sweet 16s, he'd still be our coach.

 

[Tim1406]

Unfortunately both Tubby and Pitino had pretty bad dips this year. I'll echo what was said earlier, I think he would have survived the low points if he would have provided higher high points. If the two 6-12 years had been sandwiched between a couple of top 4 B1G finishes and Sweet 16s, he'd still be our coach.

+1. What did him in was that he never had any high points with the team.

 

[Bad Gopher]

The problem is not the dip. People here will accept the dip if it is preceded by a sufficient rise. Tubby never got above 6th place or .500 in conference so there was never the high achievement that we had hoped for to hang our hats on when things didn't look as good. Clem -for example had a number of troughs in his tenure but also provided the runs to the top or near it.

The key is what recruits think. In the case of both Monson and Smith, the perception of lost momentum cost them recruits. Clem's troughs were never all that deep, and when they were he had good excuses (e.g. injuries in 1990-91). In 1997-98 they dipped pretty good because of the loss of Charles Thomas and Courtney James, but they recovered to win the NIT.

 

[El Amin Fan]

He might as well leave Texas Tech now if that's the case.

 

[El Amin Fan]

The key is what recruits think. In the case of both Monson and Smith, the perception of lost momentum cost them recruits. Clem's troughs were never all that deep, and when they were he had good excuses (e.g. injuries in 1990-91). In 1997-98 they dipped pretty good because of the loss of Charles Thomas and Courtney James, but they recovered to win the NIT.

Not to mention even after the dips, Clem kept most of the in-state kids he wanted. Granted he lost El-Amin, but he got Joel P and then had Bauer and Schilling coming in the year he got fired. Those three (especially Joel) were big time recruits and Schilling and Bauer were big as well.

 

[The-Real-Truth]

Is he giving Richard some more advice? After all, he told him how hard it was to recruit here.

 

[cncmin]

Unfortunately both Tubby and Pitino had pretty bad dips this year. I'll echo what was said earlier, I think he would have survived the low points if he would have provided higher high points. If the two 6-12 years had been sandwiched between a couple of top 4 B1G finishes and Sweet 16s, he'd still be our coach.

He'd probably still be the coach if two things never happened:
1. Royce White didn't flake out.
2. Al Nolen didn't have academic issues followed by bad injury his senior year.

Those two issues led to most of the "dip", about which Tubby is right - it's difficult to get out.

Saul's DUI didn't help matters.

 

[tinyarch]

Unfortunately both Tubby and Pitino had pretty bad dips this year. I'll echo what was said earlier, I think he would have survived the low points if he would have provided higher high points. If the two 6-12 years had been sandwiched between a couple of top 4 B1G finishes and Sweet 16s, he'd still be our coach.

Tubby would still be here if he would have found an assistant who could teach his players how to move the ball on offense. Tubby was an above average defensive coach, but his offense became so stagnant that it resulted in mediocrity within the B1G conference. I kept hoping that Tubby would find a coach who could develop efficient offensive sets, but he never did. It was his downfall at Minnesota. Just one little change like drop kicking his deadbeat son out the door and getting a talented offensive minded coach would likely have kept him endeared at Minnesota even to this day.

I wish Tubby the best, but he is entirely responsible for his removal at Minnesota. Don't blame the culture of negativity, blame the failure of a coach to get over the hump of mediocrity.

 

[jovs]

A couple of things comes out in this article, the first it seems he is talking about perception, this would only really matter as far as recruiting is concerned, if there is the perception that the program is on the downswing it probably becomes harder to recruit and this probably happened making the dip that much worse.

The second thing is change, when Maturi left he obviously was put on a short leash, new managers want their own guy no matter what the endeavor is.

The bottom line though is that neither of these matter if you are successful at some point which didn't happen.

 

[Bad Gopher]

Tubby would still be here if he would have found an assistant who could teach his players how to move the ball on offense. Tubby was an above average defensive coach, but his offense became so stagnant that it resulted in mediocrity within the B1G conference. I kept hoping that Tubby would find a coach who could develop efficient offensive sets, but he never did. It was his downfall at Minnesota. Just one little change like drop kicking his deadbeat son out the door and getting a talented offensive minded coach would likely have kept him endured at Minnesota even to this day.

I wish Tubby the best, but he is entirely responsible for his removal at Minnesota. Don't blame the culture of negativity, blame the failure of a coach to get over the hump of mediocrity.

The "advice" we got from UK Tubby bashers when he took the job here was to pay attention to who he hires as his assistants. His success here, they said, would depend on whether he got young, hungry, future head coaches or went back to his familiar, crony, career assistant coaches.

 

[Bad Gopher]

Is he giving Richard some more advice? After all, he told him how hard it was to recruit here.

If he is, that would be bad advice, and I wouldn't expect Richard to take it. Dutcher and Haskins proved you can recruit to Minnesota, sufficient to win a conference championship and contend for a national title. Naysaying is just noise.

 

[watertown 1987 guy n]

Is he giving Richard some more advice? After all, he told him how hard it was to recruit here.

He is giving all coaches advice. It comes down to winning and if you as a coach have not had any above average seasons to fall back on over multiple years when there is the occasion drought, fans lose patients and there is a turning point. Wow, shocking.

Patino is fine and for the next few years has NOTHING to worry about (the AD is behind him 100%) and he knows it, despite all the negativity on this board from a few curmudgeons in the 2nd year of a building process. He is not sweating his job, he is focused on building a franchise and bringing in top recruites. Not saying year 2 was a success, just that it is silly to extrapolate it to the next 3-4 years.

 

[e.bigelow]

He might as well leave Texas Tech now if that's the case.

LOL.

 

[goldy93]

If he is, that would be bad advice, and I wouldn't expect Richard to take it. Dutcher and Haskins proved you can recruit to Minnesota, sufficient to win a conference championship and contend for a national title. Naysaying is just noise.

Not a good comparison. So much has changed in the state of facilities at other schools since then that we are essentially in the stone ages and these things matter to recruits. Tubby was handcuffed by it and Pitino is finding out just how difficult it is to recruit here with our abysmal facilities.

 

[watertown 1987 guy n]

He might as well leave Texas Tech now if that's the case.

Great point. Sounds like this is a bead on his (forced, Shhh) retirement.

 

[The-Real-Truth]

Tubby would still be here if he would have found an assistant who could teach his players how to move the ball on offense. Tubby was an above average defensive coach, but his offense became so stagnant that it resulted in mediocrity within the B1G conference. I kept hoping that Tubby would find a coach who could develop efficient offensive sets, but he never did. It was his downfall at Minnesota. Just one little change like drop kicking his deadbeat son out the door and getting a talented offensive minded coach would likely have kept him endeared at Minnesota even to this day.

I wish Tubby the best, but he is entirely responsible for his removal at Minnesota. Don't blame the culture of negativity, blame the failure of a coach to get over the hump of mediocrity.

As always great post Tiny. How many time have we heard that Gophers offense was not working this year. When will you start bashing Richard for that. Maybe never. You were among those who created the culture of negativity. I can only imagine how many letters you sent to the AD in addition to all of your wonderful posts here.

 

[watertown 1987 guy n]

Not a good comparison. So much has changed in the state of facilities at other schools since then that we are essentially in the stone ages and these things matter to recruits. Tubby was handcuffed by it and Pitino is finding out just how difficult it is to recruit here with our abysmal facilities.

I'll add - I don't think a top 35 recruiting class can be characterized as not successful. Therefore, if recruiting "here" is in fact so difficult than Patino has done a hell of a job over coming those difficulties - just wait until he has the new practice facility.

 

[goldy93]

I'll add - I don't think a top 35 recruiting class can be characterized as not successful. Therefore, if recruiting "here" is in fact so difficult than Patino has done a hell of a job over coming those difficulties - just wait until he has the new practice facility.

One top 35 recruiting class by one service does not a great team make. I would refer you to Tubby's 17th ranked class as an example.

 

[Bad Gopher]

Not a good comparison. So much has changed in the state of facilities at other schools since then that we are essentially in the stone ages and these things matter to recruits. Tubby was handcuffed by it and Pitino is finding out just how difficult it is to recruit here with our abysmal facilities.

The victim mentality. These are things we can do something about; we've just chosen not to.

 

[cncmin]

Not a good comparison. So much has changed in the state of facilities at other schools since then that we are essentially in the stone ages and these things matter to recruits. Tubby was handcuffed by it and Pitino is finding out just how difficult it is to recruit here with our abysmal facilities.

In Tubby's first couple of season or two he recruited well. The problem was, he didn't get along with some of those players (e.g., Devoe Joseph, Colton Iverson), or he played favorites (e.g., Sampson over Iverson), or those players flaked out altogether (e.g., Royce White). Oddly, perhaps his two biggest player successes were not highly touted in terms of recruiting rankings, and they were recruited by his predecessor: Blake Hoffarber and Al Nolen.

I do believe his biggest mistake in recruiting was, given some roster issues that opened up 3 spring recruits (6 recruits total for the year (2010?), he used all of those on mediocre recruits who could not contribute at the high level needed to bring the U to the next level. I said it then and still believe it, those scholarships should have been banked instead.

It wasn't until his later years (during the "dip") that recruiting to Tubby's Gophers became a negative instead of a positive.

 

[Tim1406]

One top 35 recruiting class by one service does not a great team make. I would refer you to Tubby's 17th ranked class as an example.

They best player from that class never made it to the court. Meaning it was probably a lot closer to the 35th from this year than you might otherwise realize.

 

[watertown 1987 guy n]

One top 35 recruiting class by one service does not a great team make. I would refer you to Tubby's 17th ranked class as an example.

The gophers sure have a a heck-of-a better chance for succcess than if you never land any top 100 recruits. It is also worth mentioning that Mr. Hurt has committed for 2016 (a top 75 recruit my some services). Admitt it, come on, there are signs of progress.

 

[goldy93]

I agree with much of the above, but Pitino has had many of the same problems in only his second year. McNeil (much like White) got in trouble with the law. Martin and Ellison (much like Joseph) either did not get along or like their playing time and transferred. I believe the loss of Martin and McNeil this year was huge to our bad season and we were relatively injury free.

 

[Gopher Warrior]

Tubby knows not that of which he speaks.

As said a couple of years ago and consistently since then, Texas Tech will be ugly with Tubby. It's just a matter of how soon and how bad... awful.

Teague was put into a bad situation with regard to the extension he gave Tubby... but he allowed both that one and Borton's when he could have made a stance. Troubling.

 

[goldy93]

The gophers sure have a a heck-of-a better chance for succcess than if you never land any top 100 recruits. It is also worth mentioning that Mr. Hurt has committed for 2016 (a top 75 recruit my some services). Admitt it, come on, there are signs of progress.

Has Mr. Hurt signed a LOI? If we tank in the B1G next year, will he still sign? I am excited that he gave a verbal, but I will wait until he actually signs to celebrate.

Pitino has had just as much success (or actually less) than Tubby did his first couple of years and look where that got us. People are reading something in the tea leaves that I just do not see as far as their definition of "progress".