Tubby Smith on Minnesota: "It may be the first or second toughest job in the Big Ten."

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maroonfive said:
The best excuse is the big city is not for everyone lol. The Twin Cities are not big lol. Chicago is not big for that matter. People need to get out more.
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The excuse is lame but the Twin Cities and definitely Chicago are both big. We all understand that there are larger cities, but those ones are large too.
 

maroonfive said:
The best excuse is the big city is not for everyone lol. The Twin Cities are not big lol. Chicago is not big for that matter. People need to get out more.
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This isn’t in comparison to Mumbai and São Paulo. It’s in comparison to Iowa City, Ames, Lawrence, Madison, Boulder, etc.

Hopefully you realize this.

We aren’t recruiting vs Universities in Mexico City.

Go Gophers!!
 

Crappie said:
Please. Mn went to the extreme. Opposite of any other university when facing similar circumstances.

I’m sure you love the Tar Heels and Jayhawks and their clean programs.
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By the start of Monson's third season he had a McDonald's All-American on the team, had already been to the NIT and were set up to compete for NCAA berths. The sanctions were not all that debilitating.

Pretty nonsensical to suggest I'm an admirer of North Carolina or Kansas.
 

60's Guy said:
It was stereotyped a bad job for many reasons back in the day.
1. Used to be no facilities.
2. No idea where this is at now, but it was very tough to get players into school compared to other colleges. Tougher standards and requirements.
3. Before the Big Ten Network windfall we were always trying to compete on the cheap.
Coaches had no budgets to get things done, pay assistants etc.
4. Administration was not athletic department friendly and so it was just tough to establish change.
5. Williams Arena and it's negatives
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Ssounds like you are describing Wisconsin when Bennett took over and the old Fieldhouse was half empty.
 


60's Guy said:
It was stereotyped a bad job for many reasons back in the day.
1. Used to be no facilities.
2. No idea where this is at now, but it was very tough to get players into school compared to other colleges. Tougher standards and requirements.
3. Before the Big Ten Network windfall we were always trying to compete on the cheap.
Coaches had no budgets to get things done, pay assistants etc.
4. Administration was not athletic department friendly and so it was just tough to establish change.
5. Williams Arena and it's negatives
Add Tubby's: The weather, the scandals, all the losing seasons.
Add the no boosters with money.

There were more things like this I've forgotten but I think maybe some of that lingers giving us a
bad reputation. To be successful in coaching you need an AD who is your biggest fan. One who gives you what you need. He has your back. Fights fires behind the scenes. Coyle doesn't seem to check all the boxes but he seems to fully fight for his football and basketball coaches.

Truly believe in 2022 the right coach can win at Minnesota.
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I truly believe the Gophers suffer most from lack of well-funded boosters. The cultural scene in MSP is surprisingly strong for a metro our size. We have a lot of well-educated people here who value education/culture over sports. They see the U as an educational institution first and an athletic institution second. They will support the teams but most are not going to throw crazy money around to buy a top-tier athletic department.

Sports are an extracurricular here. We've seen this with the lack of appetite for new stadiums and arenas. Most successful university programs are found in smaller cities where sports are THE THING. Donors want to be a part of that because that may be all they can do. This breeds the fanatic business owner fan who is willing to write checks in the 7 and 8 figures.
 

whogoofed said:
Haskins first couple years were terrible. 86-87 I think. He had several recruits (Burton, Coffey, Shik) that got a lot better by the time they were Juniors/Seniors). I think they won 2 games or so Haskins first year and not much better the second. Is there no patience for this kind of build anymore? Maybe this team will follow that path? who knows right now.
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It’s not 1986 anymore though.
 

ecoperson said:
I truly believe the Gophers suffer most from lack of well-funded boosters. The cultural scene in MSP is surprisingly strong for a metro our size. We have a lot of well-educated people here who value education/culture over sports. They see the U as an educational institution first and an athletic institution second. They will support the teams but most are not going to throw crazy money around to buy a top-tier athletic department.

Sports are an extracurricular here. We've seen this with the lack of appetite for new stadiums and arenas. Most successful university programs are found in smaller cities where sports are THE THING. Donors want to be a part of that because that may be all they can do. This breeds the fanatic business owner fan who is willing to write checks in the 7 and 8 figures.
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+o4, very good point about us not having a "big booster" culture. it's unfortunate.
 

Ope3 said:
The sanctions were self-inflicted, not self-imposed.
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I remember this differently. As I recall, after the revelation of academic cheating, Minnesota hired a law firm out of someplace like Kansas to help the Gophers prepare and present a list of punishments to the NCAA. The theory was if the Gophers offered a stiff list of penalties, the NCAA wouldn’t impose harsher penalties. I don’t recall if the NCAA imposed penalties in addition to what were presented.

A few years later Ohio State fought harsh sanctions in the Maurice Clarett scandal and basically won.
 



Ope3 said:
The sanctions were self-inflicted, not self-imposed.
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The sanctions were 100% self-imposed.

It was even worse than going into a big criminal trial without a lawyer. We were literally begging for the maximum punishment.

If I was recruiting against Minnesota...I'd say that their administration doesn't allow them to have good teams. They self-impose sanctions/suspensions every time they have a good team.
 

WAGopher said:
I remember this differently. As I recall, after the revelation of academic cheating, Minnesota hired a law firm out of someplace like Kansas to help the Gophers prepare and present a list of punishments to the NCAA. The theory was if the Gophers offered a stiff list of penalties, the NCAA wouldn’t impose harsher penalties. I don’t recall if the NCAA imposed penalties in addition to what were presented.

A few years later Ohio State fought harsh sanctions in the Maurice Clarett scandal and basically won.
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MNJay said:
The sanctions were 100% self-imposed.

It was even worse than going into a big criminal trial without a lawyer. We were literally begging for the maximum punishment.

If I was recruiting against Minnesota...I'd say that their administration doesn't allow them to have good teams. They self-impose sanctions/suspensions every time they have a good team.
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The Gophers asked for a 1 Year Postseason Ban in a year which they were not going anywhere anyway. The NCAA agreed. Hardly the maximum/Death Penalty and by following season they were in the NIT.

Now that is semantics. It was going to be the punishment regardless, just based on the Pioneer Press article alone.

Note: Bobby Jackson, never an eligible player. They cheated just to get him enrolled in the first place.

Speaking of Ohio State, under Jim O'Brien they took a page out of the Clem Haskins handbook. They were hit with the same 1 year Postseason ban.
 

Ope3 said:
By the start of Monson's third season he had a McDonald's All-American on the team, had already been to the NIT and were set up to compete for NCAA berths. The sanctions were not all that debilitating.

Pretty nonsensical to suggest I'm an admirer of North Carolina or Kansas.
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Well, ok. We disagree on the impact of the sanctions. Hell, tubby couldn’t hire certain assistants because of the administration. Carry on.
 

whogoofed said:
Haskins first couple years were terrible. 86-87 I think. He had several recruits (Burton, Coffey, Shik) that got a lot better by the time they were Juniors/Seniors). I think they won 2 games or so Haskins first year and not much better the second. Is there no patience for this kind of build anymore? Maybe this team will follow that path? who knows right now.
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There doesn't need to be this kind of patience anymore. There are lots of coaches that flat out win in their first year or definitely their second. This season, if they are bad, which they are HURTS BIG TIME. With the transfer portal etc, to be rebuilding for years and years just isn't something that should happen anymore.
Flat out just win. Quit making excuses why we can't be good. It takes 3 kids that are studs and some role players to win big in NCAA basketball. Actually it doesn't even take studs. It takes a couple guys that can knock down 3 pointers.
 



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Go Gophs said:
There doesn't need to be this kind of patience anymore. There are lots of coaches that flat out win in their first year or definitely their second. This season, if they are bad, which they are HURTS BIG TIME. With the transfer portal etc, to be rebuilding for years and years just isn't something that should happen anymore.
Flat out just win. Quit making excuses why we can't be good. It takes 3 kids that are studs and some role players to win big in NCAA basketball. Actually it doesn't even take studs. It takes a couple guys that can knock down 3 pointers.
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I think this is a bit overstated in terms of ease of getting better quickly, but your point about the challenges of rebuilding from the bottom up through high school recruiting and development is well taken. The risk, oft mentioned, is that two seasons in a row of horrible could derail the whole enterprise on perception alone.

If we’re second guessing, and that is what we do, the current staffs lack of aggressiveness in the portal could be its downfall. Injuries happened, but they happened to unproven at this level players. They could have recruited proven players more assertively and at least avoided what could easily be the second disaster in a row.
 

GopherWeatherGuy said:
This job is tough because of weather and not winning recently....sorry those are two pretty terrible excuses.
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Ridiculous excuses. Tell me why Wisconsin can be successful and Minnesota can't, it all has to do with things that are completely in control of those who run the program. It's not like when Wisconsin turned things around they were sub Tropical and a dominant program, they were far worse than Minnesota.
 

Holy Man said:
I

I think this is a bit overstated in terms of ease of getting better quickly, but your point about the challenges of rebuilding from the bottom up through high school recruiting and development is well taken. The risk, oft mentioned, is that two seasons in a row of horrible could derail the whole enterprise on perception alone.

If we’re second guessing, and that is what we do, the current staffs lack of aggressiveness in the portal could be its downfall. Injuries happened, but they happened to unproven at this level players. They could have recruited proven players more assertively and at least avoided what could easily be the second disaster in a row.
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Exactly, being close to the very bottom of the NCAA for 2 straight years is gonna hurt. He flat out has to win next year or he's done. Whether the U lets him continue or not, the perception of the program will be that much worse than it already is, if that is possible.
 


Gopher Teeth said:
Ridiculous excuses. Tell me why Wisconsin can be successful and Minnesota can't, it all has to do with things that are completely in control of those who run the program. It's not like when Wisconsin turned things around they were sub Tropical and a dominant program, they were far worse than Minnesota.
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No, they hired Bennet, who was a stud. And when he was done they hired Bo Ryan, who was also a stud. They won with guys with very little talent and when they had 1-2 studs, they took it to the final four.
Madison is a college town. Minneapolis isn't. At all. Put the U in Mankato and there is ZERO way we would have been this bad, this long. Kids don't want to come to the middle of a huge city, especially when all they have seen growing up is that this place can't win.
 

Spaulding!No! said:
I have been told it doesn’t matter if the gophs don’t win another game til 2025. Peace and love to all.
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2-3 years of being terrible is plenty to convince talented kids to not consider it. He has to win next year. At least be a competitive bubble team.
 

Go Gophs said:
No, they hired Bennet, who was a stud. And when he was done they hired Bo Ryan, who was also a stud. They won with guys with very little talent and when they had 1-2 studs, they took it to the final four.
Madison is a college town. Minneapolis isn't. At all. Put the U in Mankato and there is ZERO way we would have been this bad, this long. Kids don't want to come to the middle of a huge city, especially when all they have seen growing up is that this place can't win.
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If you have something good to sell, it doesn’t matter where it is. It’s not about the big city as much as it about not having a history of winning. We don’t have that. Ben needs to hit the portal hard this spring to supplement the young talent.

Bennet was a proven D-1 coach. It was not well known outside of in the know basketball circles that Ryan had a good chance to succeed. It wasn’t obvious to us in the masses.
 


Spaulding!No! said:
I have been told it doesn’t matter if the gophs don’t win another game til 2025. Peace and love to all.
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I respect a good troll job, but you're neither good nor funny at trolling. Do better or stop annoying everyone
 

60's Guy said:
And I do believe Ben will get the same opportunity.
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I don't think Ben's seat would get hot until year four and that's only if this year and next year end with very little progress. I don't think there's any consequences for on court results this year and next year if he has a Tubby Smith type season I think he will be safe as well as long the kids compete, go to class and aren't poor representations of the University off the court. Some might not like that, but it appears Coyle will have a long leash on this one.
 

ecoperson said:
I truly believe the Gophers suffer most from lack of well-funded boosters. The cultural scene in MSP is surprisingly strong for a metro our size. We have a lot of well-educated people here who value education/culture over sports. They see the U as an educational institution first and an athletic institution second. They will support the teams but most are not going to throw crazy money around to buy a top-tier athletic department.

Sports are an extracurricular here. We've seen this with the lack of appetite for new stadiums and arenas. Most successful university programs are found in smaller cities where sports are THE THING. Donors want to be a part of that because that may be all they can do. This breeds the fanatic business owner fan who is willing to write checks in the 7 and 8 figures.
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Ding Ding Ding. 100% It's our #1 issue. Donors don't prioritize the U because the U isn't going anywhere. You stated everything very well.
 

Johnnyboy18 said:
I'd crawl through broken glass for a 2nd round exit within the next 2 years.
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I'd like to think IF by next 2 years you mean after this year...that you are likely to get bloody.
So many factors beyond how good of a coach Ben is...do the 7 freshmen stay? are they healthy? do we get a couple more ball handlers who can shoot? I'd like our chances if just that foundation was in place.
 

Crappie said:
Well, ok. We disagree on the impact of the sanctions. Hell, tubby couldn’t hire certain assistants because of the administration. Carry on.
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Because that assistant was connected to a previous violations in the 70s & 80s. Poor due diligence on Tubby Smith's part.
 

Dupreefor3 said:
I don't think Ben's seat would get hot until year four and that's only if this year and next year end with very little progress. I don't think there's any consequences for on court results this year and next year if he has a Tubby Smith type season I think he will be safe as well as long the kids compete, go to class and aren't poor representations of the University off the court. Some might not like that, but it appears Coyle will have a long leash on this one.
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How many coaches has Coyle fired? He's a coaches AD. He seems to support them to the fullest. Most coaches that get fired at other schools have a bunch of issues that come to light. There doesn't seem to be any of that in our programs at this time. Johnson should and will get every opportunity to coach through the building process.
 

Zeppelin Gopher said:
I respect a good troll job, but you're neither good nor funny at trolling. Do better or stop annoying everyone
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Speak for yourself, I find nearly everything Spaulding says to be funny because I get his perspective. It's sarcasm more than trolling IMO. Place on ignore or give a better clap back if you don't like, he's not hurting anyone.
 


ecoperson said:
I truly believe the Gophers suffer most from lack of well-funded boosters. The cultural scene in MSP is surprisingly strong for a metro our size. We have a lot of well-educated people here who value education/culture over sports. They see the U as an educational institution first and an athletic institution second. They will support the teams but most are not going to throw crazy money around to buy a top-tier athletic department.

Sports are an extracurricular here. We've seen this with the lack of appetite for new stadiums and arenas. Most successful university programs are found in smaller cities where sports are THE THING. Donors want to be a part of that because that may be all they can do. This breeds the fanatic business owner fan who is willing to write checks in the 7 and 8 figures.
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We had all of the same sports and culture in the late 90s when we were headed for the Final Four. The town, including people with fat wallets, loved the Gophers....because they were successful.

You aren't wrong about the competition, but there is enough money around town to go around + fill the arena if we are successful. We've been losing too long. Way too long. These people have lost interest in a University that seems to have other things on their mind than winning, when it comes to sports.
 

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