Try not to overthink this too much

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Ogee Ogilthorpe

Ogee Ogilthorpe

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This isn't that complicated. Everybody has 25 reasons as to why things are rough right now but it doesn't take Vince Lombardi to figure this out.

FOUR freshmen have played significant minutes on the O-line (3 have started games). A freshman should NEVER EVER EVER be playing on the offensive line. If you have ONE freshman starting, you're going to have problems. If you have TWO? Forget about it. With Gjere injured yesterday, the line was completely shuffled, again, and once again they started 2 freshmen and a sophomore.

Defensively, I counted 27 guys playing significant minutes yesterday, 16 of them underclassmen. And it's a surprise that the defense is HISTORICALLY bad?

I said before that it wouldn't surprise me (or probably bother me for that matter) if the staff privately considers this a "throwaway" season. They're playing NUMEROUS guys, trying to find out who CAN play, who WANTS to play, and which players are going to be the foundation moving forward.

Blame?

People have plenty of ideas on where the blame for this situation should lay. WHO EFFIN CARES??!?!!?!?!?! People who search for somebody to blame are losers. Period. I'd rather look forward to see how to improve this situation, who's going to be around and who's not.

I think Kill is the man for the job and I believe that more now than I did when he was hired. Not just because he's done it before but because he won't encounter a situation that he and this staff hasn't already seen before. They've been together a long time and have seen it all. I think they'll be just fine and I'm looking forward to watching it unfold.

OH!! And by all means, I think we should have at a MINIMUM six threads on here daily about how worthless Maturi is and how he should be fired. I just can't get enough of that. Those are without a doubt the most original and creative posts appearing on this board every day.
 

Ogee Oglethorpe said:
OH!! And by all means, I think we should have at a MINIMUM six threads on here daily about how worthless Maturi is and how he should be fired. I just can't get enough of that. Those are without a doubt the most original and creative posts appearing on this board every day.
Click to expand...

Thanks Ogee. Have a nice night.
 

Just look at the roster of junior, senior offensive linemen on the roster in 2012. 2-3 max? Compare that to Iowa/Wisconsin offensive lines...filled with juniors/seniors. Imagine if Brew kept same offense, held on to Shaw, didn't fill a class of 29 without a single lineman.
 

Ogee Oglethorpe said:
This isn't that complicated. Everybody has 25 reasons as to why things are rough right now but it doesn't take Vince Lombardi to figure this out.

FOUR freshmen have played significant minutes on the O-line (3 have started games). A freshman should NEVER EVER EVER be playing on the offensive line. If you have ONE freshman starting, you're going to have problems. If you have TWO? Forget about it. With Gjere injured yesterday, the line was completely shuffled, again, and once again they started 2 freshmen and a sophomore.

Defensively, I counted 27 guys playing significant minutes yesterday, 16 of them underclassmen. And it's a surprise that the defense is HISTORICALLY bad?

I said before that it wouldn't surprise me (or probably bother me for that matter) if the staff privately considers this a "throwaway" season. They're playing NUMEROUS guys, trying to find out who CAN play, who WANTS to play, and which players are going to be the foundation moving forward.

Blame?

People have plenty of ideas on where the blame for this situation should lay. WHO EFFIN CARES??!?!!?!?!?! People who search for somebody to blame are losers. Period. I'd rather look forward to see how to improve this situation, who's going to be around and who's not.

I think Kill is the man for the job and I believe that more now than I did when he was hired. Not just because he's done it before but because he won't encounter a situation that he and this staff hasn't already seen before. They've been together a long time and have seen it all. I think they'll be just fine and I'm looking forward to watching it unfold.

OH!! And by all means, I think we should have at a MINIMUM six threads on here daily about how worthless Maturi is and how he should be fired. I just can't get enough of that. Those are without a doubt the most original and creative posts appearing on this board every day.
Click to expand...

Ogee, you're a voice of reason in a cacophony of hysterical babble.
 

Ogee Oglethorpe said:
This isn't that complicated. Everybody has 25 reasons as to why things are rough right now but it doesn't take Vince Lombardi to figure this out.

FOUR freshmen have played significant minutes on the O-line (3 have started games). A freshman should NEVER EVER EVER be playing on the offensive line. If you have ONE freshman starting, you're going to have problems. If you have TWO? Forget about it. With Gjere injured yesterday, the line was completely shuffled, again, and once again they started 2 freshmen and a sophomore.

Defensively, I counted 27 guys playing significant minutes yesterday, 16 of them underclassmen. And it's a surprise that the defense is HISTORICALLY bad?

I said before that it wouldn't surprise me (or probably bother me for that matter) if the staff privately considers this a "throwaway" season. They're playing NUMEROUS guys, trying to find out who CAN play, who WANTS to play, and which players are going to be the foundation moving forward.

Blame?

People have plenty of ideas on where the blame for this situation should lay. WHO EFFIN CARES??!?!!?!?!?! People who search for somebody to blame are losers. Period. I'd rather look forward to see how to improve this situation, who's going to be around and who's not.

I think Kill is the man for the job and I believe that more now than I did when he was hired. Not just because he's done it before but because he won't encounter a situation that he and this staff hasn't already seen before. They've been together a long time and have seen it all. I think they'll be just fine and I'm looking forward to watching it unfold.

OH!! And by all means, I think we should have at a MINIMUM six threads on here daily about how worthless Maturi is and how he should be fired. I just can't get enough of that. Those are without a doubt the most original and creative posts appearing on this board every day.
Click to expand...

A+
 





Ogee Oglethorpe said:
This isn't that complicated. Everybody has 25 reasons as to why things are rough right now but it doesn't take Vince Lombardi to figure this out.

FOUR freshmen have played significant minutes on the O-line (3 have started games). A freshman should NEVER EVER EVER be playing on the offensive line. If you have ONE freshman starting, you're going to have problems. If you have TWO? Forget about it. With Gjere injured yesterday, the line was completely shuffled, again, and once again they started 2 freshmen and a sophomore.

Defensively, I counted 27 guys playing significant minutes yesterday, 16 of them underclassmen. And it's a surprise that the defense is HISTORICALLY bad?

I said before that it wouldn't surprise me (or probably bother me for that matter) if the staff privately considers this a "throwaway" season. They're playing NUMEROUS guys, trying to find out who CAN play, who WANTS to play, and which players are going to be the foundation moving forward.

Blame?

People have plenty of ideas on where the blame for this situation should lay. WHO EFFIN CARES??!?!!?!?!?! People who search for somebody to blame are losers. Period. I'd rather look forward to see how to improve this situation, who's going to be around and who's not.

I think Kill is the man for the job and I believe that more now than I did when he was hired. Not just because he's done it before but because he won't encounter a situation that he and this staff hasn't already seen before. They've been together a long time and have seen it all. I think they'll be just fine and I'm looking forward to watching it unfold.

OH!! And by all means, I think we should have at a MINIMUM six threads on here daily about how worthless Maturi is and how he should be fired. I just can't get enough of that. Those are without a doubt the most original and creative posts appearing on this board every day.
Click to expand...

I agree with all that Ogee, except for the part in bold. Respectfully, if you've been sitting in the stadium for years and watched them figure out creative ways to lose and STILL have tickets, or worse yet MULTIPLE tickets, and you now see a future where they get completely blown out it would bother you. Then imagine that you were going to be surrounded by drunken badger and Hawkeye fans, it would bother you.

Trust me it would bother you a lot.
 



I agree with Iceland, as a season ticket holder it is extremely frustrating to see a power run offense of 8-10 years ago ruined through Brew and now with a new staff expect improvements there only to find terrible play calling resulting in the worst offense I have ever seen at the U.

To go off the original post where it mentions Kill has won everywhere. I think a big point so many people have overlooked is that Kill didn't necessarily turn Northern Illinois around. This was a program that had been consistently good until one 5-7 season before KIll arrived. Before that season they consistently went to bowl games and even won a game @Bama. Kill clearly turned SIU around but that is a whole different game compared to the Big Ten and that has been made abundantly clear by his coordinators thus far. Specifically on the offensive side of the ball.
 

Iceland12 said:
I agree with all that Ogee, except for the part in bold. Respectfully, if you've been sitting in the stadium for years and watched them figure out creative ways to lose and STILL have tickets, or worse yet MULTIPLE tickets, and you now see a future where they get completely blown out it would bother you. Then imagine that you were going to be surrounded by drunken badger and Hawkeye fans, it would bother you.

Trust me it would bother you a lot.
Click to expand...

Duly noted. When you're 2000 miles away, watching from a distance (not to mention not being an alum), it's too easy to not see all the peripheral "pain" the home fans go through. Short term pain for long term gain? I think we all hope so...

If there's an upside to this strategy, there will be returning letter-winners at virtually every position on the field next year. I'm trying to at least find comfort in that as the weeks go by...
 

Okay, I'll keep it simple.

The oppenents players had a better plan of attack for the 6th game in a row.
The team didn't show up to the stadium ready to play football (again).
 

Try not to overthink this too much

Ogee...I have trouble overthinking because I have trouble thinking. Period.

I am not a thinker. I am a walking, talking pile of impulses.

p.s. Very good OP.
 



Good post Ogee. The biggest thing I agree with you is that I am also excited to watch this team unfold over the next several seasons. I believe Kill & Co. have a plan that is being put in motion as we speak. I travel to every home game and live amongst Husker and iowa fans. It get's so old being the laughingstock of my friends and family (in-laws). I believe that our growing pains now will lead to some bragging from me for a change in the coming years and I'm excited to watch it happen before our eyes. Here's to hope!
 

Ogee Oglethorpe said:
This isn't that complicated. Everybody has 25 reasons as to why things are rough right now but it doesn't take Vince Lombardi to figure this out.

FOUR freshmen have played significant minutes on the O-line (3 have started games). A freshman should NEVER EVER EVER be playing on the offensive line. If you have ONE freshman starting, you're going to have problems. If you have TWO? Forget about it. With Gjere injured yesterday, the line was completely shuffled, again, and once again they started 2 freshmen and a sophomore.

Defensively, I counted 27 guys playing significant minutes yesterday, 16 of them underclassmen. And it's a surprise that the defense is HISTORICALLY bad?

I said before that it wouldn't surprise me (or probably bother me for that matter) if the staff privately considers this a "throwaway" season. They're playing NUMEROUS guys, trying to find out who CAN play, who WANTS to play, and which players are going to be the foundation moving forward.

Blame?

People have plenty of ideas on where the blame for this situation should lay. WHO EFFIN CARES??!?!!?!?!?! People who search for somebody to blame are losers. Period. I'd rather look forward to see how to improve this situation, who's going to be around and who's not.

I think Kill is the man for the job and I believe that more now than I did when he was hired. Not just because he's done it before but because he won't encounter a situation that he and this staff hasn't already seen before. They've been together a long time and have seen it all. I think they'll be just fine and I'm looking forward to watching it unfold.

OH!! And by all means, I think we should have at a MINIMUM six threads on here daily about how worthless Maturi is and how he should be fired. I just can't get enough of that. Those are without a doubt the most original and creative posts appearing on this board every day.
Click to expand...

Like usual, great post Ogee. I think there are a lot of people to blame past and present. Whether you like him or not, Kill will be here for awhile. Hopefully he can get things turned around.
 

GophersInIowa said:
Like usual, great post Ogee. I think there are a lot of people to blame right past and present. Whether you like him or not, Kill will be here for awhile. Hopefully he can get things turned around.
Click to expand...

Bingo.

Hang in there and support Kill and the Gophers.
 

station19 said:
Bingo.

Hang in there and support Kill and the Gophers.
Click to expand...

+1

As Coach Kill said, rebuilding the Gophers is a tough job for a tough person; and over the next few years being a fan of the program will also be a tough job for tough people.
 

Iceland12 said:
I agree with all that Ogee, except for the part in bold. Respectfully, if you've been sitting in the stadium for years and watched them figure out creative ways to lose and STILL have tickets, or worse yet MULTIPLE tickets, and you now see a future where they get completely blown out it would bother you. Then imagine that you were going to be surrounded by drunken badger and Hawkeye fans, it would bother you.

Trust me it would bother you a lot.
Click to expand...

Suck it up Ice!

After all these years, I am beyond being bothered by Gopher football.

What bothers me is having drunken slobs dressed in red or black/gold hurling insults and barnyard vocabulary from seats normally filled with maroon and gold. That is the kind of stuff that keeps dads from bringing their youngsters to TCF and what pi$$es Mrs Bayfield off.

Let's see what Killball can bring before folks go off the deep end.
 

Bayfieldgopher said:
Suck it up Ice!

After all these years, I am beyond being bothered by Gopher football.

What bothers me is having drunken slobs dressed in red or black/gold hurling insults and barnyard vocabulary from seats normally filled with maroon and gold. That is the kind of stuff that keeps dads from bringing their youngsters to TCF and what pi$$es Mrs Bayfield off.

Let's see what Killball can bring before folks go off the deep end.
Click to expand...

Then your wife is going to be very pissed-off. At least they don't sell beer. :eek:
 

Rosemountian said:
Okay, I'll keep it simple.

The oppenents players had a better plan of attack for the 6th game in a row.
The team didn't show up to the stadium ready to play football (again).
Click to expand...

The plan of attack for our opponents hasn't been complicated. Take their 310 pound red shirt senior tackle and pound them at our 240 pound true freshman defensive end. After doing that for awhile, start throwing at our linebackers and secondary, some of who played offense in the last year or even last week.
On offense, the line is simply too young.
No gameplan can overcome our limitations.
Unfortunately, we are in for a long rebuild.
 

No gameplan can overcome our lack of talent to the point where we stick within 40 of Michigan and 20 of purdue?


Tell me, what color is the sky in your world where you think this is as good as this roster of talent can do? This is the best gameplan?

If we had kept Brewster how much would have we lost by?
80 at Michigan? 50 at purdue?


I understand give him more time, you should understand that despite needing more time this coaching staff has really sucked thus far.
 

Yes, why didn't Kill take the fumbles and pick 6 and shanked punts out of the gameplan, that no doubt would have helped. You coached what again?
 

Curious to what part of the game plan you've been disturbed with?

It's hard to watch, I agree, and everyone needs to be accountable....but I guarantee you the 1st quarter game plan was not to run with little success, fumble the ball, shank a punt, and throw a pick 6. His gameplan did not include Devon Wright running into a punter with zero shot to block a punt to keep a drive alive for a Purdue TD.

Just because Brewster didn't get the right guys didn't mean he was totally off with his belief in "Jimmy's & Joe's over X's & O's"......

I'm honestly curious....break it down for me, HS coach. What would you do to gameplan with the current roster against Nebraska? Let me guess....does it involves a dose of "Force Taylor Martinzez to throw the ball" along with "attack Nebraska's other front 7 players not named Crick & David?" Or do we "need to account for Crick & David on every play?"

I'm also not trying to be a *&^!#*&^!#*&^!#*&^!#*&^!#*&^!# about it...I just happen to see a roster right now that, other than running ahead 3 straight plays, taking down the play clock to :01 before we snap the ball, and punting, there's not much way to gameplan for a guaranteed smaller outcome. The coaches & players are "playing to win the game" (copyright Herm Edwards). Right now, it involves players fumbling the ball, pick 6's, occassional bad punts to go along with good punts, poor tackling, not being in position despite the fact that I GUARANTEE they went over it during the week in preparation, and penalties. Mix all that in with a roster that isn't talented enough to overcome that by a long shot and you have results like we've seen.
 

Okay, that is all a theory, but just a theory. Turner Gill took over a winning Kansas program and went into the dumpster. His second season is worse than the first. Apply that here and it may be just as true (next year will be as bad or worse). After the bye, we'll see if this team regroups, starts to fight, scrap, show some intelligence on offense or defense and maybe win a game or two. The proof is on the field.
 

Maximus said:
Just look at the roster of junior, senior offensive linemen on the roster in 2012. 2-3 max? Compare that to Iowa/Wisconsin offensive lines...filled with juniors/seniors. Imagine if Brew kept same offense, held on to Shaw, didn't fill a class of 29 without a single lineman.
Click to expand...
I don't think this has gotten nearly enough discussion here. It's a shocking fact when you think about the makeup of a football team and how essential linemen are to success in the Big Ten.
 

Rosemountian said:
No gameplan can overcome our lack of talent to the point where we stick within 40 of Michigan and 20 of purdue?


Tell me, what color is the sky in your world where you think this is as good as this roster of talent can do? This is the best gameplan?

If we had kept Brewster how much would have we lost by?
80 at Michigan? 50 at purdue?


I understand give him more time, you should understand that despite needing more time this coaching staff has really sucked thus far.
Click to expand...

If you honestly think a team with a new coaching staff, new systems, a QB who played wide reciever last year, a true freshman back up QB, 3-4 starting offensive lineman who can't legally drink, running backs starting at LB and Safety, the top DB was a WR at the beginning of last year, and a 5'8" true freshman WR isn't going to have some serious growing pains....I might question the color of the sky in your world.
There are going to be some ugly games this year. The coaching staff is installing their systems, their culture, and some discipline. It is going to take time.
 

FireDaveLee said:
Curious to what part of the game plan you've been disturbed with?

It's hard to watch, I agree, and everyone needs to be accountable....but I guarantee you the 1st quarter game plan was not to run with little success, fumble the ball, shank a punt, and throw a pick 6. His gameplan did not include Devon Wright running into a punter with zero shot to block a punt to keep a drive alive for a Purdue TD.

Just because Brewster didn't get the right guys didn't mean he was totally off with his belief in "Jimmy's & Joe's over X's & O's"......

I'm honestly curious....break it down for me, HS coach. What would you do to gameplan with the current roster against Nebraska? Let me guess....does it involves a dose of "Force Taylor Martinzez to throw the ball" along with "attack Nebraska's other front 7 players not named Crick & David?" Or do we "need to account for Crick & David on every play?"

I'm also not trying to be a *&^!#*&^!#*&^!#*&^!#*&^!#*&^!# about it...I just happen to see a roster right now that, other than running ahead 3 straight plays, taking down the play clock to :01 before we snap the ball, and punting, there's not much way to gameplan for a guaranteed smaller outcome. The coaches & players are "playing to win the game" (copyright Herm Edwards). Right now, it involves players fumbling the ball, pick 6's, occassional bad punts to go along with good punts, poor tackling, not being in position despite the fact that I GUARANTEE they went over it during the week in preparation, and penalties. Mix all that in with a roster that isn't talented enough to overcome that by a long shot and you have results like we've seen.
Click to expand...

I pretty much agree with a lot of this. I'm not sure how much different they are supposed to be doing out there. You don't have a QB who you are comfortable with throwing too much out there. So you're gonna see a rather vanilla set up on offense. Problem is, vanilla isn't cutting it because we don't have the line play to support a vanilla offense. So hence, 3-and-out is going to be a common refrain for this offense unless MarQueis has a great day and gets into a rhythm running and throwing.

Defensively, we saw how bad they were last year, and this year isn't any different (and has become worse probably due to Kill playing a lot of young guys). Could they probably mitigate some of the issues by just simply playing the older guys more so we only lose by 40, instead of 50? Sure, but Kill has chosen the youth movement route to get these kids some reps. I can't argue that methodology really. I think next year we'll appreciate him doing some of that, as it will probably be quite rough again, and it will be nice to at least have a larger group of guys who have seen reps out there.

Early in the year, I thought the staff was trying to be a little too "cute" with the offense when they had physical matchups that were more in their favor (NMSU specifically). Now though, they are physically overmatched, and with the QB play still struggling to gain any traction, I don't know what kind of gameplan sees much more success than we've had so far.

I understand some sentiment of catering your stuff to your current crop of players, but there is also something to be said for teaching your system, letting the kids work through the lumps of learning your system, and just plain establishing exactly what you want done over the next bunch of years. Rather than mixing and matching and trying to mess around with patchwork stuff just to cut your deficits from 50 to 35 points.
 

If anyone doubts the "Jimmy's and Joe's" over "X's and O's," you missed the Ohio State/Nebraska game. Can't prove the negative, but my guess is if Barrett Miller stays in the game and Fickell takes the field goal, the inexperienced 4- and 5-stars from Ohio State win that game over a decent Nebraska team (that also has its share of 4-star guys).

Ohio State is wilting under the penalties from its own stupidity (and cupidity), but that team is going to be back in a big way because it still gets the top-tier kids. If there's no long probation, they'll be riding high again shortly.

Just to make sure no one misunderstands me, I realize you can't go all "Al Davis" and assemble a team solely based on 40-yard dash times and bench press performance. You still need to find guys who can play football and from what I saw the other night, these OSU kids have more than a faint idea of how to play the game.
 

Breakin' The Plane said:
I don't think this has gotten nearly enough discussion here. It's a shocking fact when you think about the makeup of a football team and how essential linemen are to success in the Big Ten.
Click to expand...

FYI, OL for each team broken down by year:
Minnesota (19) - 3 SR, 1 JR, 3 SO, 12 FR
Wisconsin (16) - 3 SR, 3 JR, 4, SO, 6 FR
Iowa (18) - 3 SR, 4 JR, 5 SO, 6 FR

The lone junior is walk on Jacob Glickstein. Ideally, you'd like to sign 3 or 4 OL each year, enabling all of them to redshirt unless they are a great talent and can start right away. It's usually not a good sign when you have a lot more freshman (frosh and redshirts) than sophomores, juniors, and seniors combined.
 

GophersInIowa said:
FYI, OL for each team broken down by year:
Minnesota (19) - 3 SR, 1 JR, 3 SO, 12 FR
Wisconsin (16) - 3 SR, 3 JR, 4, SO, 6 FR
Iowa (18) - 3 SR, 4 JR, 5 SO, 6 FR

The lone junior is walk on Jacob Glickstein. Ideally, you'd like to sign 3 or 4 OL each year, enabling all of them to redshirt unless they are a great talent and can start right away. It's usually not a good sign when you have a lot more freshman (frosh and redshirts) than sophomores, juniors, and seniors combined.
Click to expand...

Agreed. I think the goal should be to go three deep with scholarship guys, seniors through red-shirt freshmen, with a set of freshmen ready to roll into the third string the following season. You're always going to have a star or two that's ready to go when they leave high school, but it is extremely rare.
 

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