tOSU
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I'm glad that they're getting exposed. I never understood why everybody was so in love with this OSU team.
They don't have an effective PG, so they play Evan Turner there. They have four guys in the starting lineup that can't handle the ball at all. They don't have a single effective post player; Dallas Lauderdale is an offensive cipher and one of the most pathetic rebounders you'll ever see. They have no depth to speak of. They're not especially athletic.
One great all around wing player, two jump shooting wings, a defensive specialist wing, a giant ground sloth, and no bench. Yeah, if any team challenges Purdue or MSU, it's going to be THAT team.
They don't have an effective PG, so they play Evan Turner there. They have four guys in the starting lineup that can't handle the ball at all. They don't have a single effective post player; Dallas Lauderdale is an offensive cipher and one of the most pathetic rebounders you'll ever see. They have no depth to speak of. They're not especially athletic.
One great all around wing player, two jump shooting wings, a defensive specialist wing, a giant ground sloth, and no bench. Yeah, if any team challenges Purdue or MSU, it's going to be THAT team.
GophersInIowa
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I wouldn't say losing by 4 to North Carolina is getting exposed.
Gopherholefan
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Took too long for tOSU to get going tonight, they are going to be a tough team to beat this year.
dex8425
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Yeah, they came back and looked good even with Turner and Lauderdale fouled out or in foul trouble. Ohio State played so bad in the first half and still only lost by four. This just proves the ACC is not going to be that good, and Ohio state is for real. They will be tough to beat this year. Thad Matta's teams don't roll over, and the buckeyes sure proved that tonight.
They have an All American and another legit NBA prospects in the backcourt, a very good shooter and a banger in the post. Then they have a glue guy some would argue is just as good as DJ. They have talent
Oh, is THAT all? Don't look now, but that is a pretty good combo of players, particularly when the great all around player is probably the best player in the league. In addition, they have a defensive shutdown guy, a guy who can clog things up in the middle and enforce, a couple of sharpshooters, etc. Point guard is indeed the weak link.
OSU almost certainly won't win the Big Ten title (and not one person who knows college hoops is picking them to), but they are a solid NCAA tourney team and will win their share of games. Picking them third (as was the case at the Big Ten media day) is not a reach at all.
ConferenceChamp
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I saw the the Buckeyes just signed the #1 recruiting class in the nation earlier this month
They could be good for a while.
I saw the the Buckeyes just signed the #1 recruiting class in the nation earlier this month
They could be good for a while.
To bad they will all leave after the first year. But that Matta recuiting for you.
Personally I think OSU is going to be a HUGE challenge for every team in the B10. Turner+Buford+Lighty=Matchup problems like crazy. They are all about 6-6 to 6-8 you can shoot, drive, handle the ball, rebound etc. I think Purdue will win the B10 this year with MSU second but I wouldn't be suprised if OSU gives both teams a run for there money. With all due respect to Tubby and the Gopehrs I thnk OSU is the best of the 2nd tier B10 teams(Minn, Mich, OSU ILL).
Maroon Shower
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I just don't see it. Sure Turner is good (although I don't think he's dominant by any means) and Buford and Lighty are solid, but none of their bigs impress me and PG is going to be a big problem. Although he was underwhelming considering the hype, I think they're going to miss Mullens. He definitely made his fair share of mistakes, but the physical talent was undeniable. They have no one to replace the easy buckets he gave them. I would be very surprised if OSU finished ahead of Illinois and Michigan, and see them on the same level as the Gophers (assuming we won't see any of Trevor or Royce this season).
The-Real-Truth
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I agree. I am not what game he was watching. They are very talented. Turner is a monster. I don't know which one of our players could stop him??
Mullens averaged 3.6 baskets per game. I think they can probably make that up with a healthy Lighty, the JUCO kid Kecman, the Grecian transfer from UAB, and another year of experience for Buford, Madsen, Lauderdale, and Diebler, etc.
We'll see who is right, but I think OSU is the third best team in the league.
The-Real-Truth
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I agree. Although, I still think that Purdue and MSU may choke this year.
Turner should have left after last season IMO, the kid is a lotto pick. I can't think of any other sure fire lotto picks in the Big Ten right now. With that said somebody could and most likely will come out and become a lotto pick.
But just think about the match up problems. You put your best defender on Turner, no problem, then you still have to defend 3 other players 6-6+ 2 of whom are really athletic. I think Purdue matches up about as well as any team but I'm still worried about playing them.
As for there bigs and a PG. No doubt they lost alot of potenial in Mullens but Lauderdale is a very servicable big, he isn't going to light the world on fire but he doesn't have too. He just needs to eat up space, grab rebounds, and play smart. Which is all very doable for him. As for a PG Turner really ran the team last year, sure Hill brought the ball up the court but everything went though Turner and he ran the show.
What an interesting thread
First of all, that first half of OSU on offense vs. UNC was a nightmare. OSU has shooters, but when they rush their shots like they were doing constantly in that first half, they're not going to make them. Turner had a lot of TOs because he was basically taking on their whole defense & that's never a recipe for success - it kind of reminded me of the 1st half of OSU at Illinois last year. They did hold their own in the second half until they finally were able to make a run at the end. Now, you also have to keep in mind that there are no Big Ten teams with a roster quite like UNC - they have a better combination of athleticism, size and depth than any team in the Big 10. Turnovers happen when you play teams with great size and athleticism and you're not used to it! I root for the Big 10 about as much as anybody, but I think UNC will beat MSU somewhat easily when they play in Chapel Hill. MSU lost Goran Suton - he was huge for them last year, and they don't have anybody who'll even be a second round 2010 NBA draft pick to replace him, and Travis Walton was a key player for them as well. Purdue is the Big 10 team that I am most concerned with OSU playing, but even they have some problems now with two of their rotation players out with foot injuries (PG Jackson and backup center Marcius). Bottom line is, I don't think any of the other Big 10 teams "outclass" OSU when I look at them on paper - everybody has some issues! I could be wrong, but I don't see a surefire Final Four team in the Big 10 - all of these teams need to get in a favorable bracket (i.e., one that doesn't include the best or second-best team in the country) in order to have a decent shot at making it to Indy. Viewing the top of the Big 10 as a sort of caste and anointing MSU and Purdue as the top-2 and characterizing teams 3-6 as second-rate is overly conclusory given that the top 5-6 teams in the league are fairly similar considering their players and coaches, and an injury/suspension or two can make a big difference in where teams finish. I actually thought the Gophers should've been in the conference title discussion prior to the season when it was believed White and Mbakwe were playing.
Back to OSU - Buford has talent, but his shot selection has been horrible in at least a couple games this year - he can't just shoot from 18' and beyond all the time and still be effective, but sometimes he settles for that. I think the top problem for OSU this year is getting a quality backup center (Kyle Madsen has gotten the nod so far, but he's not big and/or athletic enough to play the position well against quality teams). Lauderdale looks like he will be fairly solid as the starting center this year - a lot of times, Mullens just caught a bunch of lob passes for dunks & there's little reason to think that Lauderdale will be unable to do that this year. Zisis Sarikopoulos is the biggest player on the team but has played sparingly bc he is new and Matta usually "sprinkles" guys like him into the rotation as the year goes on - I'd like to see him take all the backup center minutes from Madsen eventually, but I don't know if it will happen. Sarikopoulos has the potential to contest shots and rebound in ways that Madsen just can't, but it's going to take a while before he starts seeing significant PT. Long-term, Sarikopoulos replacing Madsen in the rotation is best for the team - neither is very athletic, but again, Sarikopoulos has the size to contest shots well and get rebounds at a reasonably high rate. Kecman isn't going to play/be any good, so forget about him. As for the PG issue, Turner will take care of the ball fairly well (especially considering how much he's doing in terms of scoring and passing) against the teams he'll face in the Big 10, and most teams around the country, but there are a select few that he'll struggle against, UNC was one of them. Hopefully he learned some things he can apply next time he faces a team like that. He had 6 assists and 4 TOs against top-15 Cal, that's really not bad considering he also scored 26 points.
Right now, OSU really shouldn't be considered out of the Big 10 title race. You don't think Purdue has an issue with their starting PG sidelined for an extended period of time due to injury? You don't think MSU will struggle to replace Suton and Walton? Turner should be a 1st Team All-American if he keeps up the pace he's on now. I'm not sure how you could view a guy who's had double-doubles in all games (two against teams rated in the top-15) & is averaging 21.8 ppg, 14.8 rpg and 6 apg anything other than dominant. Having the top player in the league and surrounding him with 4 other very talented players is a good start to having the best team. They have some decent guard depth - Simmons should be a pretty good 6th man this year. The lack of depth at center is the real weakness on the team.
First of all, that first half of OSU on offense vs. UNC was a nightmare. OSU has shooters, but when they rush their shots like they were doing constantly in that first half, they're not going to make them. Turner had a lot of TOs because he was basically taking on their whole defense & that's never a recipe for success - it kind of reminded me of the 1st half of OSU at Illinois last year. They did hold their own in the second half until they finally were able to make a run at the end. Now, you also have to keep in mind that there are no Big Ten teams with a roster quite like UNC - they have a better combination of athleticism, size and depth than any team in the Big 10. Turnovers happen when you play teams with great size and athleticism and you're not used to it! I root for the Big 10 about as much as anybody, but I think UNC will beat MSU somewhat easily when they play in Chapel Hill. MSU lost Goran Suton - he was huge for them last year, and they don't have anybody who'll even be a second round 2010 NBA draft pick to replace him, and Travis Walton was a key player for them as well. Purdue is the Big 10 team that I am most concerned with OSU playing, but even they have some problems now with two of their rotation players out with foot injuries (PG Jackson and backup center Marcius). Bottom line is, I don't think any of the other Big 10 teams "outclass" OSU when I look at them on paper - everybody has some issues! I could be wrong, but I don't see a surefire Final Four team in the Big 10 - all of these teams need to get in a favorable bracket (i.e., one that doesn't include the best or second-best team in the country) in order to have a decent shot at making it to Indy. Viewing the top of the Big 10 as a sort of caste and anointing MSU and Purdue as the top-2 and characterizing teams 3-6 as second-rate is overly conclusory given that the top 5-6 teams in the league are fairly similar considering their players and coaches, and an injury/suspension or two can make a big difference in where teams finish. I actually thought the Gophers should've been in the conference title discussion prior to the season when it was believed White and Mbakwe were playing.
Back to OSU - Buford has talent, but his shot selection has been horrible in at least a couple games this year - he can't just shoot from 18' and beyond all the time and still be effective, but sometimes he settles for that. I think the top problem for OSU this year is getting a quality backup center (Kyle Madsen has gotten the nod so far, but he's not big and/or athletic enough to play the position well against quality teams). Lauderdale looks like he will be fairly solid as the starting center this year - a lot of times, Mullens just caught a bunch of lob passes for dunks & there's little reason to think that Lauderdale will be unable to do that this year. Zisis Sarikopoulos is the biggest player on the team but has played sparingly bc he is new and Matta usually "sprinkles" guys like him into the rotation as the year goes on - I'd like to see him take all the backup center minutes from Madsen eventually, but I don't know if it will happen. Sarikopoulos has the potential to contest shots and rebound in ways that Madsen just can't, but it's going to take a while before he starts seeing significant PT. Long-term, Sarikopoulos replacing Madsen in the rotation is best for the team - neither is very athletic, but again, Sarikopoulos has the size to contest shots well and get rebounds at a reasonably high rate. Kecman isn't going to play/be any good, so forget about him. As for the PG issue, Turner will take care of the ball fairly well (especially considering how much he's doing in terms of scoring and passing) against the teams he'll face in the Big 10, and most teams around the country, but there are a select few that he'll struggle against, UNC was one of them. Hopefully he learned some things he can apply next time he faces a team like that. He had 6 assists and 4 TOs against top-15 Cal, that's really not bad considering he also scored 26 points.
Right now, OSU really shouldn't be considered out of the Big 10 title race. You don't think Purdue has an issue with their starting PG sidelined for an extended period of time due to injury? You don't think MSU will struggle to replace Suton and Walton? Turner should be a 1st Team All-American if he keeps up the pace he's on now. I'm not sure how you could view a guy who's had double-doubles in all games (two against teams rated in the top-15) & is averaging 21.8 ppg, 14.8 rpg and 6 apg anything other than dominant. Having the top player in the league and surrounding him with 4 other very talented players is a good start to having the best team. They have some decent guard depth - Simmons should be a pretty good 6th man this year. The lack of depth at center is the real weakness on the team.
Down with Goldy
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I disagree. Talent-wise, this year's UNC team looks like one of Matt Doherty's teams. I wouldn't be surprised if they don't win a single game against MSU, Kentucky, and Texas.
First of all Down with Goldy, I made a general sweeping statement, on I should have been more specific on. But if you think that Thomas and Sullinger aren't gone after this year you are crazy. Also look at Matta track record with one and done's, I haven't looked it up, but I would be extreamly suprised if any other coach has had more one and done's than him.
OSUfan on your comment about avoiding the 1 or 2 best teams in the country during the tourny. Isn't that what the is about more than anything, matchups? Last year look at the Purdue-UConn match. They were a terrible match up for Purdue(and for many other teams) now you put Purdue vs Nova for example, I'm not saying Purdue would win but I would like Purdue's chances a whole lot better.
I also agree with you on the loss of Suton and Walton. They are a much bigger loss than most people think they will be.
Going to the Purdue injuries. I'm much more concerned about the Macius injury simply becuase of depth reasons. Right now Purdue's big consist of JuJuan Johnson(IMO best big in the B10), Robbie Hummel(he is closer to a 3 than a 4), and Patrick Bade(a rough freshmen) then who DJ Byrd(a 6-6 freshmen). Personally I'm not nearly as worried about the injury to Lewis Jackson because 1. we still have Keaton Grant who did a hell of job in the PG role 2 years ago and 2. Kelsey Barlow a 6-6 freshmen who is athletic as hell and has been very impressive this year.
Now going to the early season Big 10 favorites. I think the reason that Purdue and MSU are considered the top tier is because they have been there before in there before with there core players. Thats something no other team can say. And as I have stated before in this thread I think OSU is going to end up in 3rd this year and will be much better than many other people think.
OSUfan on your comment about avoiding the 1 or 2 best teams in the country during the tourny. Isn't that what the is about more than anything, matchups? Last year look at the Purdue-UConn match. They were a terrible match up for Purdue(and for many other teams) now you put Purdue vs Nova for example, I'm not saying Purdue would win but I would like Purdue's chances a whole lot better.
I also agree with you on the loss of Suton and Walton. They are a much bigger loss than most people think they will be.
Going to the Purdue injuries. I'm much more concerned about the Macius injury simply becuase of depth reasons. Right now Purdue's big consist of JuJuan Johnson(IMO best big in the B10), Robbie Hummel(he is closer to a 3 than a 4), and Patrick Bade(a rough freshmen) then who DJ Byrd(a 6-6 freshmen). Personally I'm not nearly as worried about the injury to Lewis Jackson because 1. we still have Keaton Grant who did a hell of job in the PG role 2 years ago and 2. Kelsey Barlow a 6-6 freshmen who is athletic as hell and has been very impressive this year.
Now going to the early season Big 10 favorites. I think the reason that Purdue and MSU are considered the top tier is because they have been there before in there before with there core players. Thats something no other team can say. And as I have stated before in this thread I think OSU is going to end up in 3rd this year and will be much better than many other people think.