Top QB Favors Ducks But Gophers in Mix

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John Galt said:
I've watched Green play live 5-6 times and posted this in the 2016 recruiting thread. He's impressive, but never wowed me. When East Ridge played a good but not great CDH team last year, they had at least 3 future D-1 recruits on offense - Hassenauer, Green, and George Behr. They scored 7 points. At home. A lot of his stats have come against the really weak teams in the conference. If you went to an East Ridge game and didn't know who he was, you would never guess that he has multiple D-1 offers. I was much more impressed with Lamonte Edwards in high school, but Green is still young.

Obviously college coaches like what they see in workouts, so maybe he's improved a lot over the last year. I'll be at a game later this month and am interested to see how he looks.
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WR Kline (forgot his first name) also has an offer from Pitt and RB Nick Leach is now a freshman PWO here at the U. So 5 D1 recruits.
 

hungan1 said:
Ragnow, Green, Carlberg - they all give lip service. They end up elsewhere.
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Are we even recruiting Carlberg anymore? It seems that the staff likes the 4 O-lineman we have better than him and they have moved on.
 

Jaykay said:
You're probably thinking of Wilkie and the comparison between him and Green as a recruit is not even close.

Lets not forget that Perra and Wilkie were seniors last year while Green was a sophomore. I like Perra A LOT but I would take Green over him in a heart beat.
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Have you watched Green, or is it based on offers? My issue with those that think offers are the end-all, be-all is that it's the players who are looking for more offers and hit the camp circuit that generally accumulate them.
 

John Galt said:
Have you watched Green, or is it based on offers? My issue with those that think offers are the end-all, be-all is that it's the players who are looking for more offers and hit the camp circuit that generally accumulate them.
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I saw him twice last year so yes, you have seen him more than me.

My main issue is that you seem to be ignoring the age factor here. He was a sophomore last year; he has almost two full high school seasons to improve so comparing his play last year to Perra's isn't exactly fair.
 

Jaykay said:
I saw him twice last year so yes, you have seen him more than me.

My main issue is that you seem to be ignoring the age factor here. He was a sophomore last year; he has almost two full high school seasons to improve so comparing his play last year to Perra's isn't exactly fair.
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Completely agree. My point is that I think some of the interest he's garnering is based on potential instead of how good he is right now.
 


I'm not a D-1 talent scout...but it's fair to say that there is not a lot of creativity or originality of thinking at all levels of football and in my opinion colors the evaluations. Offers beget offers. There is a lot of groupthink amongst coaches at all levels in regards to team and player evaluations and schematic philosophy. Look at the way NFL game has dramatically evolved as have the type of players being drafted. Heresy for years.

Probably the most original football thinking I've read about was a high school coach that flat refused to punt. Ever. He also called onside kicks consistently. He figured on average he could accumulate enough first downs and points to offset the inevitable great field position he would hand the opposing team. I thought that was the coolest thing I had ever heard. Coach has won 3 state championships and is something like 122-22 since 2001.

Here's a link. Coming to a team near you? All football schema passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident.
http://espn.go.com/espn/playbook/st...oach-punt-celebrates-innovative-mind-football
 


Do we have a safety we can convert to QB instead?
 

John Galt said:
Completely agree. My point is that I think some of the interest he's garnering is based on potential instead of how good he is right now.
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I think you're 100% right. Perra was a fantastic HS QB. He really was dynamic. However, physically, he has limits that Seth Green won't ever have. Perra is the better QB right now (and last year), but Seth Green has all the tools in the world.

The QB position is so tough because it is so nuanced, so "potential" can be tougher to gauge but a large part of Green's attention has been based on potential.
 



At SIU Kill had Nick Hill who's numbers were comparable to Joe Flacco (and actually faced Flacco in the 2007 Semi-final). While undrafted, he was still picked up by the Bears, dropped and has had some success in Arena Football.
 

Bob_Loblaw said:
I think you're 100% right. Perra was a fantastic HS QB. He really was dynamic. However, physically, he has limits that Seth Green won't ever have. Perra is the better QB right now (and last year), but Seth Green has all the tools in the world.

The QB position is so tough because it is so nuanced, so "potential" can be tougher to gauge but a large part of Green's attention has been based on potential.
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That's what irks me about recruiting (and to a lesser extent the NFL draft). When coaches and scouts obsess about things like "potential" and measurables, rather than at flat out how well they can play the game. I could care less about 40-times or bench presses - a good quarterback is a good quarterback. That's how NDSU continuously fields solid teams - they take kids that may not have the measurable speed or athleticism that the big schools want, but they know how to play the game well and win. Rather than trying to out-southern the SEC schools, take the local talent and mold your system around that.
 

I don't think I will be able to complain too much if we lose a recruiting battle with Oregon.
 

imho...
Green's dad was able to get his kid in the QB rotation in 5th grade thru general tactics that many dads... esp famous dads, incorporate.
No one at Eastridge has beaten him out.. so give him that...
However, Seth has ridden the 'great athlete' and 'upside' moniker to this day...
but is he really a great QB? when does 'upside' finally pay off in on-field production?.... i am still waiting...
 



Don't let the door hit you in the ass. Seth Green should be null and void on the Gopher Hole. Why even give these guys the time of day?
 

BJN said:
That's what irks me about recruiting (and to a lesser extent the NFL draft). When coaches and scouts obsess about things like "potential" and measurables, rather than at flat out how well they can play the game. I could care less about 40-times or bench presses - a good quarterback is a good quarterback. That's how NDSU continuously fields solid teams - they take kids that may not have the measurable speed or athleticism that the big schools want, but they know how to play the game well and win. Rather than trying to out-southern the SEC schools, take the local talent and mold your system around that.
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Totally agree with this, but this is also the reason why the Gophers were able to land Steven Richardson.
 

BJN said:
That's what irks me about recruiting (and to a lesser extent the NFL draft). When coaches and scouts obsess about things like "potential" and measurables, rather than at flat out how well they can play the game. I could care less about 40-times or bench presses - a good quarterback is a good quarterback. That's how NDSU continuously fields solid teams - they take kids that may not have the measurable speed or athleticism that the big schools want, but they know how to play the game well and win. Rather than trying to out-southern the SEC schools, take the local talent and mold your system around that.
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But measurables and those little things do matter otherwise Tim Tebow would have been all-pro at the NFL level. Like it or not these things do matter and the process of evaluating and scouting a player has been developed and refined over decades. Are they right everytime? Absolutely not. Are they likely right more with this formula than they would be by the formula you outline? I'd say absolutely.
 

BJN said:
When coaches and scouts obsess about things like "potential" and measurables, rather than at flat out how well they can play the game.
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This is a strange thing for you to say as a Gopher fan, given that a lot of the recruiting strategy of Kill and staff is based on finding players that they think will grow into good players at the Big Ten level.
 

How about when a four star has neither measurable or production? A four star grade implies elite talent and production.
 

I'd blame the East Ridge Coach - isn't the east ridge coach the same guy that coached holy angels? Has he ever sent a player to the U? Stocco, Fitzgerald, Alabama kid, etc...
 

This kid is always an option. Last years starter at Minnetonka, good student but no one showed interest, doing well at Community College level, may not translate to B1G but better than looking at high school stats.

Rochester Community College
No. Name Yr Pos gp comp att pct yds y/g y/a td int lg
8 Nick Rooney Fr QB 2 34 46 73.90% 544 272 11.8 8 2 50
 

LakerFan said:
This kid is always an option. Last years starter at Minnetonka, good student but no one showed interest, doing well at Community College level, may not translate to B1G but better than looking at high school stats.

Rochester Community College
No. Name Yr Pos gp comp att pct yds y/g y/a td int lg
8 Nick Rooney Fr QB 2 34 46 73.90% 544 272 11.8 8 2 50
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Haven't seen him play but I wouldn't really look at his stats too close just knowing the MCAC conference well as it really is a mixed bag with some pretty good teams but some real bad teams as well. Looking at their schedule Rochester has played Mesabi Range who has been on a downward trend for a few years and Vermilion who was better than they have been in a while last year but were still pretty bad.
 

maroonedinCA said:
But measurables and those little things do matter otherwise Tim Tebow would have been all-pro at the NFL level. Like it or not these things do matter and the process of evaluating and scouting a player has been developed and refined over decades. Are they right everytime? Absolutely not. Are they likely right more with this formula than they would be by the formula you outline? I'd say absolutely.
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'measurables' are less important for a QB.. though they do matter a bit more for a 'dual threat' QB...
 

Gopher_Nutz said:
Enlighten us with how it should be "managed".
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We've started 4 QB's in four years, 3 of which have little to no experience & 2 of the 4 decided to leave the program completely. We also changed offensive systems once in there as well. We have a lightly recruited QB in Leidner, a QB who doesn't look to be much of a passer in Streveler, a QB with less-than-perfect measurables (6' 220lb) in McKinzy & another lightly recruited QB coming in, in Croft. That doesn't mean Kill is a bad coach, or that the program is doomed, but I'm sure Kill would tell you that he'd prefer to have some continuity & more highly rated talent at the position.
 

Costa Rican Gopher said:
We've started 4 QB's in four years, 3 of which have little to no experience & 2 of the 4 decided to leave the program completely. We also changed offensive systems once in there as well. We have a lightly recruited QB in Leidner, a QB who doesn't look to be much of a passer in Streveler, a QB with less-than-perfect measurables (6' 220lb) in McKinzy & another lightly recruited QB coming in, in Croft. That doesn't mean Kill is a bad coach, or that the program is doomed, but I'm sure Kill would tell you that he'd prefer to have some continuity & more highly rated talent at the position.
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What are you referring to? Are you having flashbacks to the Basement Brew era?
 

BJN said:
That's what irks me about recruiting (and to a lesser extent the NFL draft). When coaches and scouts obsess about things like "potential" and measurables, rather than at flat out how well they can play the game. I could care less about 40-times or bench presses - a good quarterback is a good quarterback. That's how NDSU continuously fields solid teams - they take kids that may not have the measurable speed or athleticism that the big schools want, but they know how to play the game well and win. Rather than trying to out-southern the SEC schools, take the local talent and mold your system around that.
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I don't think it should irk you. We have a staff that is really good at it (like Dpo mentioned).

Look at a guy like Cockran. We offered him because of his frame and athleticism, the stuff had faith they could make a good football player out of him.

Pirsig. Go back and watch his highlights from HS. He was decent, but he wasn't even the best OL on his small town MN team. He had the most potential (by far).

Keith, Campbell, Jones are all guys we wanted because they had impressive/rare measureables.

I don't know why it bothers people when teams draft or recruit on potential. It really has a proven track record of working.
 

The stats don't lie, about 50% of five stars will go on to be drafted, 15-25% of 4 stars, similar percentage of 3 stars in any given year. Teams with 4 star average rosters will beat 3 star average ranked rosters about 2/3 of the time. The assessments aren't useless.

However, the sensitivity of the individual recruiting assessments is pretty awful.

The coaches who are better at reducing their false positives in recruiting can build more competitive teams than the services would predict. I'd like to think this staff has that ability. Time will tell.

Even NFL scouts, coaches, and management have a tough time identifying the players that have "it", ie football IQ/smarts/animal spirits despite a more normalized level of competition in college vs high school.
 

I actually believe one of these years the Ducks will fall back to the pack, which will be perfect justice for a rich, dirty program.
It is obvious we have not made enough progress on offense for the front runner recruits to be interested yet. And we probably won't get them on offense until Limegrover shows he can make things happen a lot more consistently than he has so far. That could be another year or two given the fact that we need a QB who can execute consistently to make anything but a power running offense work.
 

Goldy247 said:
I'd blame the East Ridge Coach - isn't the east ridge coach the same guy that coached holy angels? Has he ever sent a player to the U? Stocco, Fitzgerald, Alabama kid, etc...
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I believe that is a fair concern.
He got fired with the rest of the staff, and has been an issue ever since. Could not recruit for us a lick, but is a hell of a negative recruiter based on results so far, or maybe it is just conicidence.
 


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