Too late to bring back Mason?

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maliksealy said:
Are you serious? Bigger and better things? 10 wins is about as good as we're gonna get. We will never be able to compete with Wisconsin and Iowa on a regular basis. Take a dose of reality son.
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If you believe that, we may as well tear down TCF Bank Stadium and use the space for the basketball practice facility or baseball stadium. No reason to get upset over a game like today if we're just happy to be here in the Big Ten.

We may never win another Big Ten championship, but we better F'n try.
 

Hates Monikers said:
If you believe that, we may as well tear down TCF Bank Stadium and use the space for the basketball practice facility or baseball stadium. No reason to get upset over a game like today if we're just happy to be here in the Big Ten.

We may never win another Big Ten championship, but we better F'n try.
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That implies that Mason didn't want to win. Of course he did. Could he have tried harder towards the end? Probably. But it's not as though he stopped caring. Sometimes you have to accept your lot in life. Mason's 1999 and 2003 teams are probably as good as we can do in the modern era.

Northwestern basketball should clearly fire Bill Carmody. They're clearly never going to win the B1G with him. Yet they don't. Why?
 

maliksealy said:
Yeah. He did pretty well to make bowl games with "semi-recruiting." Must be a pretty decent coach.
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A decent coach with zero conference titles in 20 years as a Division I head coach. A decent coach that couldn't finish higher than fourth in the Big Ten in 10 years on the job. A decent coach with the biggest bowl choke job in the history of college football on his resume. A decent coach that enjoys insulting his student fan base. A decent coach that lost leads of 24 and 31 points in two bowl game losses. A decent coach that lost by 25, 36 and 44 on the road in his 10th year on the job.
 

howeda7 said:
That implies that Mason didn't want to win. Of course he did. Could he have tried harder towards the end? Probably. But it's not as though he stopped caring. Sometimes you have to accept your lot in life. Mason's 1999 and 2003 teams are probably as good as we can do in the modern era.

Northwestern basketball should clearly fire Bill Carmody. They're clearly never going to win the B1G with him. Yet they don't. Why?
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No, it implies that maliksealy is satisfied with 10 wins and 5-3 in the conference, and losing to Iowa and Wisconsin every year. Five wins look pretty good right now, but that shouldn't be our ultimate goal.

I also disagree that Mason's 1999 and 2003 teams are are as good as we can do. Mason himself could've done that. Hold a 28-7 fourth quarter lead in 2003, and suddenly we've got 11 wins (more than 10?) overall and six in the Big Ten for the first time in 30 years. Beat Indiana the week after winning at Ohio State in 1999 and we win six conference games that season. I'm not ragging on Mason; I'm just saying that six Big Ten wins can be achieved. A Big Ten championship can be won. If that's not the goal, at least, I wish someone would tell me so I know. I'll spend my season ticket money on something else.
 

Maximus said:
A decent coach with zero conference titles in 20 years as a Division I head coach. A decent coach that couldn't finish higher than fourth in the Big Ten in 10 years on the job. A decent coach with the biggest bowl choke job in the history of college football on his resume. A decent coach that enjoys insulting his student fan base. A decent coach that lost leads of 24 and 31 points in two bowl game losses. A decent coach that lost by 25, 36 and 44 on the road in his 10th year on the job.
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Ok...now name a Minnesota HC in the last 30 years that did better...

Don't worry, I'll wait...
 



Maximus said:
A decent coach with zero conference titles in 20 years as a Division I head coach. A decent coach that couldn't finish higher than fourth in the Big Ten in 10 years on the job. A decent coach with the biggest bowl choke job in the history of college football on his resume. A decent coach that enjoys insulting his student fan base. A decent coach that lost leads of 24 and 31 points in two bowl game losses. A decent coach that lost by 25, 36 and 44 on the road in his 10th year on the job.
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Still 100 times better than the other bums we've had here. Through 5 games, Kill and company look closer to Wacker regime than Mason Regime.
 

Visions of Wacker coming to mind more and more as I watch the Gophers this season. Everybody liked him, had a lot of success at lower levels, etc, etc.

As for today getting blasted by Michigan not nearly as disturbing as losing to New Mexico State.

Geezo beezo we've got a long way to go.
 

Hates Monikers said:
No, it implies that maliksealy is satisfied with 10 wins and 5-3 in the conference, and losing to Iowa and Wisconsin every year. Five wins look pretty good right now, but that shouldn't be our ultimate goal.

I also disagree that Mason's 1999 and 2003 teams are are as good as we can do. Mason himself could've done that. Hold a 28-7 fourth quarter lead in 2003, and suddenly we've got 11 wins (more than 10?) overall and six in the Big Ten for the first time in 30 years. Beat Indiana the week after winning at Ohio State in 1999 and we win six conference games that season. I'm not ragging on Mason; I'm just saying that six Big Ten wins can be achieved. A Big Ten championship can be won. If that's not the goal, at least, I wish someone would tell me so I know. I'll spend my season ticket money on something else.
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A Big 10 championship can be won, but it will have to be by a team at 1999 or 2003 level rolling the stone back up the mountain and getting it done. It's not doing to be done by bringing in vastly superior talent to those two teams.
 



This is the classic Minnesota response. Always satisfied with "good enough." One coach in 50 years has won a major championship. Still, Bud Grant is an effin' saint around these parts. When the Twins finally wise up and kick Gardenhose to the curb, he'll have a street named after him, even though his squads consistently choked under pressure.
 

KSU didn't fire him, but watching Bill Snyder beat a ranked team today certainly raises the question. KSU is a similarly crappy job and he was a similar oasis in the desert for them.
 

Breakin' The Plane said:
This is the classic Minnesota response. Always satisfied with "good enough." One coach in 50 years has won a major championship. Still, Bud Grant is an effin' saint around these parts. When the Twins finally wise up and kick Gardenhose to the curb, he'll have a street named after him, even though his squads consistently choked under pressure.
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Bud Grant and Gardy were what they were, good coaches. If the Twins haven't won a play-off series by 2013 Gardy will be gone. But it's silly to act as though 6 division titles is 9 years is some accident and shouldn't buy any leeway.
 

howeda7 said:
Bud Grant and Gardy were what they were, good coaches. If the Twins haven't won a play-off series by 2013 Gardy will be gone. But it's silly to act as though 6 division titles is 9 years is some accident and shouldn't buy any leeway.
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Ask Terry Francona about leeway. He has not one, but two World Series titles. The Red Sox held him accountable for failure. That doesn't happen here. Gardenhire's been "good enough" by beating 4 other teams (3 if you discount KC) 6 out of 9 years. It's not like he won the AL West when Canseco and McGwire were in their prime. The Central's been pretty week; well, other than the year when the White Sox won it all or the year the Tigers went to the World Series.
 



Breakin' The Plane said:
Ask Terry Francona about leeway. He has not one, but two World Series titles. The Red Sox held him accountable for failure. That doesn't happen here. Gardenhire's been "good enough" by beating 4 other teams (3 if you discount KC) 6 out of 9 years. It's not like he won the AL West when Canseco and McGwire were in their prime. The Central's been pretty week; well, other than the year when the White Sox won it all or the year the Tigers went to the World Series.
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Good for the Red Sox. I'd say they probably erred in firing him, but a $200 million payroll will cover up a lot. The Twins have only been even mid-market for 2 years. It requires a slightly different perspective. No excuse for this season, but Gardy has earned some rope. His replacement is far more likely to be worse than better. Not yet worth rolling those dice.
 

howeda7 said:
Good for the Red Sox. I'd say they probably erred in firing him, but a $200 million payroll will cover up a lot. The Twins have only been even mid-market for 2 years. It requires a slightly different perspective. No excuse for this season, but Gardy has earned some rope. His replacement is far more likely to be worse than better. Not yet worth rolling those dice.
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Well, you're 100% right there. They've been itching for years to give that job to Ullger.
 

Breakin' The Plane said:
Ask Terry Francona about leeway. He has not one, but two World Series titles. The Red Sox held him accountable for failure. That doesn't happen here. Gardenhire's been "good enough" by beating 4 other teams (3 if you discount KC) 6 out of 9 years. It's not like he won the AL West when Canseco and McGwire were in their prime. The Central's been pretty week; well, other than the year when the White Sox won it all or the year the Tigers went to the World Series.
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I thought Francona chose to leave
 

howeda7 said:
KSU didn't fire him, but watching Bill Snyder beat a ranked team today certainly raises the question. KSU is a similarly crappy job and he was a similar oasis in the desert for them.
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Bill Snyder had success at KSU. He wasn't mired in mediocrity like the Gophs with Mase.
 

Breakin' The Plane said:
Well, you're 100% right there. They've been itching for years to give that job to Ullger.
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Lack of excitement for Wayne Krivsky or Terry Ryan as GM is the same reason to give Billy Smith another shot. Saying the Twins should fire the manager because the Red Sox did is like saying OSU fired the coach for going 8-4, so the Gophers should too.
 

howeda7 said:
Lack of excitement for Wayne Krivsky or Terry Ryan as GM is the same reason to give Billy Smith another shot. Saying the Twins should fire the manager because the Red Sox did is like saying OSU fired the coach for going 8-4, so the Gophers should too.
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No, the Twins should fire their manager because he's proven that he doesn't have what it takes to lead his club to a championship. Give him two more seasons though, I'm sure he'll turn this thing around. He's better than the unknown. Somebody's gotta hold Joe Mauer's hand.
 

It appears some have forgotten about our recent road history under Mason at the B1G's better teams. Some examples going back...

2006, @ Wisconsin, trailed 41-3 in the third, lost 48-12.
2005, @ Iowa, trailed 35-0 in the 2nd, 45-7 in the third, eventually lost 52-28
2005, @ PSU, trailed 37-7 in the 3rd, lost 44-14
2004, @ Wisky, tailed 31-0 in the 2nd, lost 38-14
2004, @ MSU, trailed 44-10 in the 3rd, lost 51-17
2003, @ Iowa, trailed 40-6 in the 4th, eventually lost 40-22.

I'll stop there. Obviously, none of those are 58-0, or 38-0 at halftime. But I don't believe any of those included a true freshman making his very first start of his career, on a team that has few weapons for him, with a coach just getting started in his tenure, and inheriting a 3 win team that in its previous season had already lost to the likes of USD and NIU.

My only point is, some point to Mason, but his teams laid eggs on the road numerous times, and during seasons in which they were supposed to be actually decent squads. I didn't even bring up numerous OSU beat downs, or other poor performances on the road we had under Mason after his 2003 Michigan letdown.

Games like this are gonna happen when you have such a poor defense. Couple that with an offense playing with so many young guys, and a true freshman at the helm, and it's gonna get even worse. Kill's got his work cut out for him, no doubt about that. He wasn't lying when he said it could get worse before it gets better.
 

"He wasn't lying when he said it could get worse before it gets better."

We only know he wasn't lying about the first part. His Assistants are making sure of that.
 

Monty519 said:
It appears some have forgotten about our recent road history under Mason at the B1G's better teams. Some examples going back...

2006, @ Wisconsin, trailed 41-3 in the third, lost 48-12.
2005, @ Iowa, trailed 35-0 in the 2nd, 45-7 in the third, eventually lost 52-28
2005, @ PSU, trailed 37-7 in the 3rd, lost 44-14
2004, @ Wisky, tailed 31-0 in the 2nd, lost 38-14
2004, @ MSU, trailed 44-10 in the 3rd, lost 51-17
2003, @ Iowa, trailed 40-6 in the 4th, eventually lost 40-22.

I'll stop there. Obviously, none of those are 58-0, or 38-0 at halftime. But I don't believe any of those included a true freshman making his very first start of his career, on a team that has few weapons for him, with a coach just getting started in his tenure, and inheriting a 3 win team that in its previous season had already lost to the likes of USD and NIU.

My only point is, some point to Mason, but his teams laid eggs on the road numerous times, and during seasons in which they were supposed to be actually decent squads. I didn't even bring up numerous OSU beat downs, or other poor performances on the road we had under Mason after his 2003 Michigan letdown.

Games like this are gonna happen when you have such a poor defense. Couple that with an offense playing with so many young guys, and a true freshman at the helm, and it's gonna get even worse. Kill's got his work cut out for him, no doubt about that. He wasn't lying when he said it could get worse before it gets better.
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Thank you for this post. Facts are helpful.
 

thailleagle said:
Mason was the best thing to happen to Gopher Football in the last 20 years... I don't see how anyone can despute that... even if you hate the guy...
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It had little to do with mason and a ton to do with his staff and ability to develop o lineman.
 

Gardy may be dumber than a chicken, but I never ever have the impression that he leaves anything on the field as a manager. He's thorough and he's engaged. In his last couple of seasons, I didn't feel the same way about Mason. I'll admit I could be dead wrong, but he just didn't seem to enjoy doing those nuts-and-bolts things to promote the program. Maybe he did and the athletic department didn't do enough to make certain we were aware of what Mason was doing in the community.
 

maliksealy said:
Are you serious? Bigger and better things? 10 wins is about as good as we're gonna get. We will never be able to compete with Wisconsin and Iowa on a regular basis. Take a dose of reality son.
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What!!!! We used to be the big dog in thus conference... We can compete with these teams. The badgers used to be worst then us
 

Mason was the best coach in at least 20 years.

That doesn't mean he wasn't mediocre, and that he didn't deserve to be fired far earlier than he was. Calling him the best coach at Minnesota in 20 years is damning with faint praise.
 

So, the Mason hating mobbers and bashers are at it again...

Just hate on fools.

Coming on the day when our Gophers were smacked around by a 58-0 score, you people look REALLY foolish bithching about Mason.

Will you fools ever learn ANYTHING?

We are all getting what we so richly deserve for not having run badger joel macturi off years ago.

And you fools bitch about Mason?

This is going to get really ugly this year.

And you fools bitch about Mason?

You'll most likely receive what you all deserve from a Golden Gopher Football Program that has had to put up with badger joel macturi's hiring and firing and extending and buying out snafus during the past decade.

And you fools bitch about Mason?

Take a look at what is happening. Count the wins. Count the losses. And then...

just keep right on bitching about Mason.

You get what you deserve...


; 0 (
 

Regardless of whether Mason was a mediocre Coach or not...he was *STILL* the best thing to happen to this program in the last 20 years. If you really believe different then you have some strong hate in your blood that is making you delusional...
 

50PoundHead said:
Gardy may be dumber than a chicken, but I never ever have the impression that he leaves anything on the field as a manager. He's thorough and he's engaged. In his last couple of seasons, I didn't feel the same way about Mason. I'll admit I could be dead wrong, but he just didn't seem to enjoy doing those nuts-and-bolts things to promote the program. Maybe he did and the athletic department didn't do enough to make certain we were aware of what Mason was doing in the community.
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I don't think Gardenhire is dumb off the field. He played at the University of Texas and I think graduated(not 100 certain) some of his coaching decisions make him look dumber than a chicken.
 

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