Tom Powers: U's propaganda puts an unhappy spin on a feel-good story

[RodentRampage]

the same. 8 out of 10 posters here thought his seizure was not that big a deal and it was a walk in the park. We now know it is an issue we don't sweep under the rug like the U's publicity department did. Powers was
right on. Get well Jerry Kill. Don't prostitute your health.

Not one poster said or implied it was a "walk in the park". Powers is off base with his assertion that the U told us that "He's out of bed and turning cartwheels and working out with a hula hoop." Even allowing for hyperbole, that's ridiculous. Doctor Powers (he must be a doctor, since he diagnoses people and decides when it is appropriate to go back to work) is engaging in more propaganda than the U is.

 

[Handsome Pete]

I agree 100% with Powers. I was stunned to hear Kill's comments after the game about drifting in and out of consciousness and having repeated seizures for the 4-5 days prior to the game. To be honest, it made me sick to my stomach

 

[Khaliq]

Lets let it go as Coach would probably want us to and continue to keep his health in our prayers and/or thoughts. Oh, and to continue our support for them boys in maroon and gold.

The health of the head coach as it impacts his ability to perform his duties seems like it would be pretty important to the future of the program and a worthy topic of discussion.

 

[Oneoldgopher]

The facts are easy here. Kill is not in perfect health. Neither are most of us his age. And, it doesn't get easier. It gets harder to adjust to all the new things that ails us. It is the nature of aging.

First, we all hope and pray that Coach Kill can "control" his seizures. That is a matter of all of us sharing legitimate concern for his well being.

I think all of us hope he can continue to contribute to the Gopher program. However, a real concern for his ability to fulfill those duties has legitimately arisen due to ongoing health concerns. It is my hope that he be allowed to keep his job, in some fashion that does not detract from the team progressing from a bottom tier team to a top tier team in the B!G. But, I am not the guy who will need to review this. Joel Maturi needs to assess this. Not only is that a prudent move, it is dictated by common sense to review whether the circiumstances will not continue to interfere with the substance of his duties. It would be appropriate for Joel Maturi to review the impact of the disease on the principle duties of coach Kill and whether his job can accommodate this condition. If it can, good for both Coach Kill and the team. If not, he may need to be reassigned to duties he can perform or be dismissed, for the obvious reason that the evaluation determined he could not fulfill his primary duties. Again, I am not suggesting Kill can not perform his primary duties. I am saying that Joel Maturi will have to address this in the near future. He will have to put this to bed by making a public statement about his support of Jerry Kill one way or another. There is no doubt this is a business decision, not a medical decision from Joel. This is not an easy issue, as it is not based on performance in a classic sense. It is about the ability to perform, the ability to accommodate a disease by the U, and if not, what next step should be taken. This is a nightmare as far as judgement is concerned. We are talking about a good coach, a good employee, and a good representative of the school. But, the University has interests beyond loving this guy as a person. The next few months will be more about the judgement of Joel Maturi than Jerry Kill.

 

[fryguy22]

I keep hearing this... that the doctors will get this under control. If they've been unable to for the past 20 years, why in the world would one believe they suddenly will now?

I am not so sure they have "been unable to for the last 20 years".....he has been a damn successful head coach for much of that time period. Seems like anything wrong with him was controlled well enough, at least, during that time

 

[Mulligan]

BS on the medical privacy talk. They were releasing information that he was fine, that everything was hunky dory, which was false. They didn't feel constrained from lying as a result of any privacy laws.

I'm concerned about Kill because of the multiple seizures, his wife's reluctance to have him go back to work, and because of the obvious fatigue or weariness he's experiencing - just look at his face and listen to his voice - he is unwell.

However unhappy it makes you to hear it, this is true, and reporter Powers is right to point it out.

At least one day before Powers' column, maybe two, Kill was quoted to the effect that this was his toughest seizure yet. The same story also reported that there were other seizures a day or two after the one Saturday. Doctor Smith was vague in the one news conference I saw, but most of the "rosy" outlook came from his assistant coaches. Would you expect any different narrative from them? When I saw the story about the toughest seizure yet, I was surprised there wasn't more of a reaction here. I certainly don't feel duped; not sure why you do.

Ya, he's a public figure. That doesn't mean we're entitled to know everything. It's just amazing how many folks here are so qualified to make assumptions, give advice, and pass judgments and don't have a frickin' idea of what is actually going on or what is going to happen down the road. You can bet University doctors are all over this and maybe we should let them and Coach Kill decide what the best course of action is.

 

[Gopher Warrior]

I am not so sure they have "been unable to for the last 20 years".....Seems like anything wrong with him was controlled well enough, at least, during that time

We'll disagree here. Big time.

When you're repeatedly at the hospital, unable to perform your time-sensitive job duties... when you've got young players that "are aware of the history" yet are on their knees crying before it's time to try to win a football game... when grown men watching a college football game from the stands are crying because of your "no big deal" illness... when it negatively affects recruiting... when friends and supporters are sincerely concerned about your health... that, to me, is not being "controlled well enough".

Perhaps winning some games equates to everything being fine and dandy in your view. Again, we'll disagree.



Killer Quotes:
"I said we can all learn from this. I'm not sure what the lesson is..."
"I want to be able to coach. [The doctors] have kind of given me the green light. I've kind of forced it a little bit, but that's me being the old ball coach."

 

[DarrenTheGreek]

I'm concerned for Kill's long-term health and agree that he should take it easy.

 

[umn99]

Right now I am worried about his health also, but I think my reaction is based on the fact that this is the first time I am seeing this happen to him. I hope he slows down a bit and lets Claeys and Limegrover handle some of the responsibility. I know that's not in his nature, but I know he trusts them and I thought the way they stepped in last week was fantastic. These kids need stability and they helped give them that last week. Kudos to them.

As far as disclosure during the week, it's hard to say how it should have been handled. As much as Claeys and Limegrover played it off as no big deal, you just knew that wasn't the case. But it also wasn't their place to disclose what was going on at the hospital. Kill's honesty on Friday and Saturday was nice to see, but scary to hear. I guess all you can do is hope, for Coach Kill's sake, that they get everything under control and he is able to coach this game for a long time to come.

 

[anonymous]

I had a conversation with Bleed last Saturday night, a few hours after Kill was taken to the hospital.

At that point, I thought things from the U seemed a little too positive. I didn't understand how everything could be fine and normal that quickly. I would have rather had them say that they were cautiously optimistic, but tests needed to be run, etc.

What happened to JKill was not normal. Being in the hospital that long isn't normal if everything is fine.

I felt the same way when the U released news on Tubby and his prostate cancer. Within about six weeks of the procedure, they said he was cancer-free. My father had prostate cancer about two years ago and doctors were very clear that they don't consider anyone cancer free until they pass the year mark.

I get that the U might be trying to "protect" their coaches or "respect their privacy," but it is not good when a significant media organization writes a column in the Sunday paper accusing the school of lying.

 

[Monty519]

From things I've read about seizures (and trust me I'm not even remotely an expert or even that knowledgeable, just a regular joe reading things on the internet), you aren't going to make them completely stop and never happen again. But for a period of time you can adjust medication to keep them to a heavy minimum. Kill's been fine for years and suddenly now he had episodes. That tells me there is an adjustment needed for him to get this balanced out again. Whether this is caused by the stress of rebuilding a program once again, or just that single day where the dehydration kicked things out of whack and then had his body out of sorts the following week, something needs to be tweaked with his medication, and possibly even things like his diet.

Not being a doctor, but just reading up a little bit, I think in the long run, Kill will be fine. Right now, he needs to rest more, and I would hope he still takes it easy this week. But I would not be surprised if in a few years, something like this happens again and he'll go through the same deal again, probably needing even more time to recover due to his age. I think right now the important part is to keep him taking it easy, and getting him feeling back to normal before he actually starts to work like normal again. If he were 40, I'd be less concerned about how he actually felt, but getting older, I think he needs to make sure he reigns it in a little bit when stuff like this happens.

 

[GoAUpher]

Gopher Warrior asked me in the other thread what it would take to make me feel more worried about Kill. What came out over the weekend did that. I still think a lot of people posting dire predictions don't understand how treatment of chronic illnesses/problems work and there is still more angst here then I'd like. His seizures will never be "cured" and him having a seizure (or even series of smaller seizures) is most likely a symptom of something else being out of whack (meds, etc) and doesn't have to signify a big problem. That said, on a personal level I was a little shocked when I heard about the additional seizures on Saturday. Oddly enough, I heard about them via a friend listening to the pregame KFAN coverage. The person who announced it to the world? Maturi. On KFAN. To my knowledge this was prior to Kill saying anything to the media about it. So yea, not sure how that fits into the coverup storyline. Anywho...

I'm still not going to speculate on how serious this all is, because my number one pet peeve in all of this is the wild speculation happening from folks who have no knowledge of key details. But I am certainly more concerned than I was (even though I have no idea whether or not that concern has any foundation in actual medical outcomes).

 

[dpodoll68]

Oddly enough, I heard about them via a friend listening to the pregame KFAN coverage. The person who announced it to the world? Maturi. On KFAN. To my knowledge this was prior to Kill saying anything to the media about it.

Kill told Mason in the BTN interview (released Friday) that there were additional seizures.

 

[Monty519]

That said, on a personal level I was a little shocked when I heard about the additional seizures on Saturday. Oddly enough, I heard about them via a friend listening to the pregame KFAN coverage. The person who announced it to the world? Maturi. On KFAN. To my knowledge this was prior to Kill saying anything to the media about it. So yea, not sure how that fits into the coverup storyline. Anywho...

Actually Kill did a BTN interview on Friday night with Glen Mason and had acknowledged the subsequent seizures he experienced at the hospital, so Maturi was probably just going with it since Kill had mentioned it the night before.

And dp beat me to the punch lol.

 

[GoAUpher]

Kill told Mason in the BTN interview (released Friday) that there were additional seizures.

You and your facts. Bah!

 

[GoAUpher]

Actually Kill did a BTN interview on Friday night with Glen Mason and had acknowledged the subsequent seizures he experienced at the hospital, so Maturi was probably just going with it since Kill had mentioned it the night before.

And dp beat me to the punch lol.

Bah! to your redundant facts as well!

 

[fryguy22]

Perhaps winning some games equates to everything being fine and dandy in your view. Again, we'll disagree.

You have asked others to refrain from putting words in your mouth; I respectfully request that you do the same for me.

My point wasn't that everything is perfectly okay at this moment in time; I too am concerned and if it is better for Jerry Kill to take a week, half a year, or the rest of his career off then that deserves a discussion. However, if he wants to coach and it makes him happy then I think he has shown that the doctors have it under control well enough for him to successfully coach a football program.

 

[Lakeville Goldy]

1. I don't think the U has any obligation to discuss health issues of its employees with the press. In fact, I'm surprised with HIPPA, etc. that they can even comment on it.

2. I'll take Tom Powers's amateur medical opinion with all the credibility it deserves. If Kill's doctors are ok with him coaching, then so be it. Unless you have a medical degree and have actually examined and diagnosed Kill, you have no idea how serious or not serious this is, or what risks there may or may not be.

 

[Khaliq]

1. I don't think the U has any obligation to discuss health issues of its employees with the press.

Kill is a public employee, possibly one of the highest publicly paid employees in the state, whose ability to perform his job directly impacts how much money is generated by that investment in him. He is also effectively a public figure.

In fact, I'm surprised with HIPPA, etc. that they can even comment on it.

Anything they say should be run through Kill and his people obviously.

2. I'll take Tom Powers's amateur medical opinion with all the credibility it deserves. If Kill's doctors are ok with him coaching, then so be it.

This is generally true, but just as you rightly point out there's uncertainty about what Powers or the rest of us can know we don't know to what extent his medical team is comfortable with his return to the sidelines. After all in the press we saw after his release he was told to go home to rest and he went right home, changed, and headed to practice.

The easiest way for Kill et al to clear up uncertainty about this is to keep an open dialog about it and just be honest. Otherwise it lets your opponents write the story for you on the recruiting trail.

 

[GoAUpher]

The easiest way for Kill et al to clear up uncertainty about this is to keep an open dialog about it and just be honest. Otherwise it lets your opponents write the story for you on the recruiting trail.

Which, refreshingly enough, seems to be his style.

 

[SelectionSunday]

I can't quibble much with Powers. This is a lot more serious than it was let on. I was stunned when I heard Mason's interview and Kill told him he had more seizures in the hospital.

Kill's first priority should be himself and his family, not the Gopher football team. Get this under wraps, let your top assistants carry the load for awhile & then go from there. It's not good for him, his family or the Gopher football program if he's having seizures, especially public ones. The scary thing is, they're pretty much saying it's not a matter of "if" but "when" he has more seizures. I don't want this to have an unhappy ending.

 

[Formo]

I had a conversation with Bleed last Saturday night, a few hours after Kill was taken to the hospital.

At that point, I thought things from the U seemed a little too positive. I didn't understand how everything could be fine and normal that quickly. I would have rather had them say that they were cautiously optimistic, but tests needed to be run, etc.

What happened to JKill was not normal. Being in the hospital that long isn't normal if everything is fine.

I get you may be miffed that the U sugar coated Coach's diagnosis.. but after having multiple seizures, being in the hospital that long IS normal. I know this first hand. Either way, the U is most definitely keeping things on the up and up for good enough reason. People need to understand having all doom and gloom doesn't do anyone any good, especially those that 'made the news' (ie Coach Kill & Tubby).

You have to remember.. The U never once said that Kill didn't have any more seizures, or that he was doing cartwheels and jumping jacks as Powers implied. They said that Coach was doing fine and getting his meds balanced out.

The health of the head coach as it impacts his ability to perform his duties seems like it would be pretty important to the future of the program and a worthy topic of discussion.

Ok. It's been discussed. My point is the doom-and-gloomers here seem to know and understand that Coach is not ok and are setting out a path to recovery. All without any diagnosis or understanding outside of what has been reported by Mr. Powers and other media interviews. To me, and probably to a few others, those 'discussions' aren't doing anyone any good. It's pretty obvious that if Coach does go down with something for an extended period of time that the continuity of his coordinators would step in and the team wouldn't miss a beat when it comes down to preparation and execution for their games on Saturday. This last week proved that to be true.

 

[Formo]

I can't quibble much with Powers. This is a lot more serious than it was let on. I was stunned when I heard Mason's interview and Kill told him he had more seizures in the hospital.

Kill's first priority should be himself and his family, not the Gopher football team. Get this under wraps, let your top assistants carry the load for awhile & then go from there. It's not good for him, his family or the Gopher football program if he's having seizures, especially public ones. The scary thing is, they're pretty much saying it's not a matter of "if" but "when" he has more seizures. I don't want this to have an unhappy ending.

I agree with you in that I don't want this to be an unhappy ending for the Kill family either.

But he's not a 14 year old, he's a grown man. If he pushes himself too far, he can (and probably would) only blame himself for whatever consequences that may be dealt. Let the man do his thing. I can't stand people telling me or others how to live.. Especially when it comes to something that only physically affects oneself. Fact is.. With Coach's issue, chances are that he WILL have more seizures. That is accepted. Seizures, especially the type of ones that he has been diagnosed with, aren't killers. They are exactly what Coach Limegrover/Claeys said they are.. Looks a lot worse than what they actually are.

The most damage that can happen when he has a seizure (generally speaking that is) is the fall from the collapse itself or while having the seizure if he bangs into stuff/or is attempted to be restrained. I know this because my brother has a seizure disorder his whole life and the occasional trip to Abbot wasn't out of the ordinary with some of his seizures (most of his, like Coach Kill's, are controlled by meds).

 

[SelectionSunday]

I agree with you that Coach Kill is a grown man and is old enough to make his own decisions. I'm not telling him how to live. I'm giving my take on the situation, the big picture on how his health & decision affects him, his family & the overall well being of the Gopher program.

Respectfully, my question to you would be, do you think it will be healthy for the Gopher football program if their head coach has (public) seizures on multiple occasions while performing his duties? Will his decision to coach affect other people than himself (i.e. the program) in any negative way whatsoever?

It's not my intent to be a party pooper, just a realist. Here's to Coach Kill's health and no more cancer or seizures.

 

[Formo]

I agree with you that Coach Kill is a grown man and is old enough to make his own decisions. I'm not telling him how to live. I'm giving my take on the situation, the big picture on how his health & decision affects him, his family & the overall well being of the Gopher program.

Respectfully, my question to you would be, do you think it will be healthy for the Gopher football program if their head coach has (public) seizures on multiple occasions while performing his duties? Will his decision to coach affect other people than himself (i.e. the program) in any negative way whatsoever?

I wouldn't consider it HEALTHY. But I also wouldn't consider it unhealthy either. Coach isn't having seizures on a weekly or monthly basis. If it came down to that, then I'd express far greater concern not only for him and his health but also the effect it would have on the football program. As of right now, this is a once every 5 year thing. That's a FAR cry from being unhealthy to the program. Same goes for your second question. I'm not going to entertain this level of concern right now because there's a serious lack of data (ie seizures/episodes during Coach's duties). Maybe that's because I'm somewhat used to this type of disorder because of my personal experiences but I don't think this much concern is warranted right now.

Here's to Coach Kill's health and no more cancer or seizures.

I'll toast to that!!

 

[GoAUpher]

Maybe that's because I'm somewhat used to this type of disorder because of my personal experiences but I don't think this much concern is warranted right now.

I have the same take as you. Not because of personal experience with seizures, but b/c of personal experience (through myself and my immediate family) in dealing with other chronic conditions that are treated by medication. That's why I've been so bullheaded about combating the assumptions and what-ifs.

SS, I think you're approaching things in a much more reasonable way than others have. While you are asking a what-if question, you're doing specific to the context of if Kill has more seizures right now (which A) happened in the hospital and B) was something he seems to have readily admitted could happen). So while my gut is to say "lets not engage in what-if's", I don't find your reasons for wondering to be out of left field. So, IMO, no, it would not be ideal. But that's about as far as I feel like "what-if-ing" given the fact that he has yet to have another public seizure, we have no idea about how likely another public episode is, etc.

 

[SelectionSunday]

Fair enough.

Let's all root for the best-case scenario to occur. Most importantly, that Coach Kill is healthy, and second that the program goes on an up-tick under his direction and Minnesota becomes a program like (similar schools) Iowa and/or Wisconsin.

 

[GoAUpher]

Let's all root for the best-case scenario to occur. Most importantly, that Coach Kill is healthy, and second that the program goes on an up-tick under his direction and Minnesota becomes a program like (similar schools) Iowa and/or Wisconsin.

+Infinity. Should we all hold hands and sing a happy song now?

 

[Gopher Warrior]

But I also wouldn't consider it unhealthy either. Coach isn't having seizures on a weekly or monthly basis. If it came down to that, then I'd express far greater concern not only for him and his health but also the effect it would have on the football program. As of right now, this is a once every 5 year thing. That's a FAR cry from being unhealthy to the program...I don't think this much concern is warranted right now.

That's quite a take. This is not "a once every 5 year thing". It's far more frequent than you think.

Let's go back just one year, same week as this year's five night hospital stay. Coaching Northern Illinois... after their home opener, he winds up in the hospital for four nights. Even though some in this thread now want to believe he is Mr. open and forthright, spilling out everything as of late, you really don't think he was having seizures last year at this time when he missed the majority of a week during the season? I'll bet the house (it's not that much, really - my LTV is ridiculously high) that he was.

2005 - in the hospital for six nights
2006 - seizure on a Sunday after the taping of TV show - in the hospital for four nights
2010 - in the hospital four nights, I'll put money where my mouth is that he was having seizures
2011 - in the hospital five nights

Call me kookie, but I come to the understanding that, at a minimum, in four of the last seven seasons head coach Kill has missed a week during the football season because of his "routine & not unhealthy" seizures.


Killer Quotes:
"[doctors believe the seizures are caused by] fatigue and lack of sleep"
"I'm not going to have somebody tell me I can't do something."

 

[Mulligan]

2005 - in the hospital for six nights
2006 - seizure on a Sunday after the taping of TV show - in the hospital for four nights
2010 - in the hospital four nights, I'll put money where my mouth is that he was having seizures
2011 - in the hospital five nights

Call me kookie, but I come to the understanding that, at a minimum, in four of the last seven seasons head coach Kill has missed a week during the football season because of his "routine & not unhealthy" seizures.


Killer Quotes:
"[doctors believe the seizures are caused by] fatigue and lack of sleep"
"I'm not going to have somebody tell me I can't do something."

All right, Kookie, even if you're right, that begs the question, "So what?" Seriously, what should the University and Kill do now?

-The University could attempt to fire him because he is physically unable to carry out his duties. Even if they wanted to (which they don't) it might present some legal and p.r. issues. Don't you think?
-Kill could offer to resign because he feels that he can't do the job. Can't really see him doing that. Can you?
-The University could have Kill take a medical leave of absence. That really would open them and Kill to a whole lot of questions about being able to do the job, recruiting, cheating the players, etc. Probably not going to happen. Besides, he is probably still going to have more seizures anyway. As I understand it, this isn't a condition you can cure.
-Give shamans, witch doctors, medicine men, Pat Robertson, etc. a crack at him?
-Let him try to do his job, giving him the best medical attention you can.

It's pretty clear as to what is going to happen. Most people seemed to agree this was a good hire. His medical issues haven't prevented him from having success elsewhere. This is a bigger stage, but there is no reason to think it's going to be different here. It's just football. Jerry Kill doesn't have his finger on the nuclear trigger. If there's another episode this season you do have to look more seriously at this, but that also hasn't happened before. Right now, Kooie, way too much consternation and speculation.

The fact it's been multiple night stays doesn't alarm me at all either. Just as you're so sure about what happened in 2010, I'm just as sure that at least half of those nights are due to his wife and doctors keeping him longer just to make him rest up or else he would have been out the door to you know where.