Time to look ahead.......what is your plan?

[tikited]

The answer isn't Giannis. Too old. The answer isn't a big haul for Randle, he's been shit since mid December and the league knows it. The answer isn't Berenger if they decide to trade Rudy. He's at least a year away from being a 10 minute/game player. The answer isn't firing Finch. He's done remarkably well with an unbalanced roster, a charismatic but immature superstar, poor drafting by the FO and inadequate draft capital that is about to get a lot worse. The answer isn't moving to the east. That's 2-4 years away, if ever. With MN sports luck, the wolves would move east just as the conference becomes ridiculously good.

The team has almost no draft capital left. Connelly gives away draft picks like chicklets. Even trading the four seconds plus Dilly and Miller for possibly only two months of Ayo was stupid. Seconds do mean something.

The answer is that the wolves have to get incredibly lucky and, in addition to moving Randle and, possibly, Rudy this summer, they have to trade Jaden.

Zero chance Jaden is traded. Zero.

Even if Ayo walks, it was still a no-brainer. Only chance to do something in the playoffs. Mission accomplished for that. Still a chance to do more.

 

[Gopher_In_NYC]

Zero chance Jaden is traded. Zero.

C’mon AROD - Be bold

Even if Ayo walks, it was still a no-brainer. Only chance to do something in the playoffs. Mission accomplished for that. Still a chance to do more.

 

[GopherWeatherGuy]

I don't know. I feel like if this squad played the last 10 NBA Champs in a 7 game series, they'd come away with a handful of titles. But they feel miles away from OKC and the Spurs in terms of speed and athleticism.

The wolves are big and designed to play slow. Because Ant wants to play slow.

For all of you who wanted a better 'PG' or to get smaller, faster, more athletic, you're going directly against how your superstar wants to play.

So then what?

 

[GopherWeatherGuy]

Doesn't giannis solve a bunch of that?

Can they double Ant like they are if they have a scoring force in the middle? I don't think they can. Rudy is no threat to score, so the pressure comes out deeper.

I dont know, but we can't score enough against teams when we get this far. Every shot seems like a struggle.

They are all over our perimeter players.

The Wolves have given up 126, 115, 133, 125, and 116 in their playoff losses. It has very little to do with offense.

Their offense is good when they attack. When they get lazy and launch contested 3 after contested 3, their offense sucks.

It's 100% coaching.

 

[kg21]

The Wolves have given up 126, 115, 133, 125, and 116 in their playoff losses. It has very little to do with offense.

Their offense is good when they attack. When they get lazy and launch contested 3 after contested 3, their offense sucks.

It's 100% coaching.

They launch many contested 3's because the shot clock is winding down because they can't get by anyone. Who can take you off the dribble other than Ant?

It's painful to watch us score at times. We go long stretches without scoring. Hell, we had 3 points 8 minutes into the game the other day. Just score 10 in the same time span and we are looking to close them out Friday night. Long stretches every single game.

We do have defensive problems, also. We don't have quick feet much of the time. And the elephant in the room is Ant has been pathetic defensively this year.

 

[jamiche]

Zero chance Jaden is traded. Zero.

Even if Ayo walks, it was still a no-brainer. Only chance to do something in the playoffs. Mission accomplished for that. Still a chance to do more.

I think he could have gotten Ayo without the two players and all four seconds.

 

[jamiche]

Zero chance Jaden is traded. Zero.

Even if Ayo walks, it was still a no-brainer. Only chance to do something in the playoffs. Mission accomplished for that. Still a chance to do more.

If they are content with a fifth or sixth seed and a first or maybe second round exit, they tread water by getting medium value back for medium value players like Rudy and Randle. If they want to go for it they have to trade a player or players that everyone would want. Besides Ant, who would that be?

 

[tikited]

If they are content with a fifth or sixth seed and a first or maybe second round exit, they tread water by getting medium value back for medium value players like Rudy and Randle. If they want to go for it they have to trade a player or players that everyone would want. Besides Ant, who would that be?

I don't think they make a huge move. I do think they try to trade Julius for parts and maybe a pick.

 

[tikited]

I think he could have gotten Ayo without the two players and all four seconds.

Maybe, but then why didn't they?

 

[GopherWeatherGuy]

They launch many contested 3's because the shot clock is winding down because they can't get by anyone. Who can take you off the dribble other than Ant?

It's painful to watch us score at times. We go long stretches without scoring. Hell, we had 3 points 8 minutes into the game the other day. Just score 10 in the same time span and we are looking to close them out Friday night. Long stretches every single game.

We do have defensive problems, also. We don't have quick feet much of the time. And the elephant in the room is Ant has been pathetic defensively this year.

Nonsense. The only person who can't drive to the hoop is Rudy.

Every game they've won in both series they did it by driving to the hoop, kicking it back out and moving the ball around. They either made baskets at the rim or had an open 3.

Every game they have lost they play iso ball, don't move the ball, and launch contested long 2s and 3s for long stretches of the game. That's when their offense looks like shit. Even the announcers have called it out nearly every game. This type of offense plus lazy D has led to all of their losses.

It's not a talent issue. It hasn't been for the last 3 years.

 

[kg21]

Nonsense. The only person who can't drive to the hoop is Rudy.

Every game they've won in both series they did it by driving to the hoop, kicking it back out and moving the ball around. They either made baskets at the rim or had an open 3.

Every game they have lost they play iso ball, don't move the ball, and launch contested long 2s and 3s for long stretches of the game. That's when their offense looks like shit. Even the announcers have called it out nearly every game. This type of offense plus lazy D has led to all of their losses.

It's not a talent issue. It hasn't been for the last 3 years.

I'm watching a totally different series.

Who are you seeing that is going by people. The spurs are going by us at will.

Who is doing that for the wolves?

 

[Ope3]

The answer isn't moving to the east. That's 2-4 years away, if ever. With MN sports luck, the wolves would move east just as the conference becomes ridiculously good.

My comment about moving to the East was mostly facetious for being "the plan to change the Wolves fortunes".

I would still really want it to happen though, not just to get away from the Okies or Wembys.

- Less travel.
- More games against natural geographic rivals.
- Fewer late night starts, especially in the Playoffs which are a drag.

In the past decade Cleveland, Toronto & Milwaukee have all won the LOB Trophy out of East. Each is a non-traditional power. Totally willing to roll the dice that it would be come out of that conference, even though short term the West will be watered down with a couple of Expansion teams.

 

[jamiche]

I don't think they make a huge move. I do think they try to trade Julius for parts and maybe a pick.

You are probably right. Then we get a reprise of 25-26.
I'm not thrilled about trading a key piece at all. If the goal is to win a championship (and to get the public to pay for a new building) I'm not sure how else the wolves get out of this "good but not great" position. Can we count on Connelly finding another Jokic with either the 28th or 59th picks in the draft? His track record since then suggests not.

 

[jamiche]

Maybe, but then why didn't they?

I don't know. I wasn't there. People overpay for things all the time. Considering the overall lack of draft assets on hand and the two month rental player hard to believe two players and two seconds doesn't get it done.

 

[GopherWeatherGuy]

I'm watching a totally different series.

Who are you seeing that is going by people. The spurs are going by us at will.

Who is doing that for the wolves?

So you're saying no one on the wolves is driving to the hoop in this series? If so, I don't believe you've even watched one game. I didn't realize Wemby's 12 blocks in game 1 were all out at half court.

 

[JimmyJamesMD]

I think he could have gotten Ayo without the two players and all four seconds.

You think?

 

[JimmyJamesMD]

I don't know. I wasn't there. People overpay for things all the time. Considering the overall lack of draft assets on hand and the two month rental player hard to believe two players and two seconds doesn't get it done.

2 players with how much value? Not much


And 2nd rounders are low value, especially if you're a playoff team and picking very low

 

[JimmyJamesMD]

Nonsense. The only person who can't drive to the hoop is Rudy.

Every game they've won in both series they did it by driving to the hoop, kicking it back out and moving the ball around. They either made baskets at the rim or had an open 3.

Every game they have lost they play iso ball, don't move the ball, and launch contested long 2s and 3s for long stretches of the game. That's when their offense looks like shit. Even the announcers have called it out nearly every game. This type of offense plus lazy D has led to all of their losses.

It's not a talent issue. It hasn't been for the last 3 years.

In hindsight, best thing for wolves would have been to get swept by denver so finch goes. As much as I dislike randles game Finch's coaching was junk before the trade

 

[atsgopher]

2 players with how much value? Not much


And 2nd rounders are low value, especially if you're a playoff team and picking very low

Maybe, but then why didn't they?

I think he’s forgetting about the Cap rules.

The order of deadline dealing was telling.

And at the time there was criticism from the NBA press apparatus that we could have gotten Ayo straight up for Conley. I saw it multiple places.

The real value was future flexibility:

Instead we got rid of 3 contracts we needed to get rid of. Meanwhile, we added the player we wanted, and got Conley back.

The draft pick swap and 4 2nds reflect the value of said flexibility as understood at the GM level of being under 1st apron, AND obtaining “2 month rental player’s” bird rights, And the trade exceptions (we have a $10.77 and 6.58 trade exceptions from both deadline deals).

Being under 1st apron is of course complex, but means something to those that get paid to do the job, and means nothing to those that pay to bitch.

Obviously it’s misunderstood at the Jamiche level. Or done so deliberately so he can maintain his position of hating everything Connelly, so that he can uphold his hatred of Arod/Lore.

 

[kg21]

So you're saying no one on the wolves is driving to the hoop in this series? If so, I don't believe you've even watched one game. I didn't realize Wemby's 12 blocks in game 1 were all out at half court.

You never touched my question.

Who are you seeing on the wolves going by spurs defenders?

You said we are launching 2's and 3's for long stretches of the game. Why are we launching all of those when we can go by them.

Please do tell.

 

[upnorthkid]

You never touched my question.

Who are you seeing on the wolves going by spurs defenders?

You said we are launching 2's and 3's for long stretches of the game. Why are we launching all of those when we can go by them.

Please do tell.

ayo, tj, ant, and jaden all are getting towards the basket. often they are aborting it partway there for a pull up to avoid wemby, other times they are going to the hoop and trying to score over him.

Julius is getting completely locked down (exact same as last year) and can't bully decent defenders which entirely ruins his post game. Mike really doesn't give you a ton of penetration ever but has run the pick and roll alright but cannot score anywhere remotely close to the hoop when wemby is in. Naz can navigate around some people occasionally, but he struggles heavily with tense ball pressure due to his handle, leading to him launching 3s at times (he's actually made a decent clip this series).

They're launching shots due to worry going into wemby because of his size and because his unique length makes it so he doesn't have to jump early which makes getting him into foul trouble really challenging (part of why I'd wish we'd run pick and roll with someone who's not terrible ass rudy when he's in the game to get him out of the paint but having to respect his guy staying outside).

 

[GopherWeatherGuy]

You never touched my question.

Who are you seeing on the wolves going by spurs defenders?

You said we are launching 2's and 3's for long stretches of the game. Why are we launching all of those when we can go by them.

Please do tell.

I already answered this question with everyone except Rudy. Everyone else drives to the hoop and gets to the rim.

 

[kg21]

I already answered this question with everyone except Rudy. Everyone else drives to the hoop and gets to the rim.

I'll watch more closely.

I will ask one more time. You said we are launching way to many contested 2's and 3's for long stretches, but we are going by them. That makes little sense, but again, I will watch more closely

 

[jamiche]

2 players with how much value? Not much


And 2nd rounders are low value, especially if you're a playoff team and picking very low

Miller is now a rotation player and, given the cyclical nature of the NBA and Connelly's handouts, the 2031 and 2032 2nd's will likely be early seconds. Additionally, as of today, the wolves have no picks in 2031 in exchange for Dilly and maybe 2026 Ayo.

 

[Bob_Loblaw]

IMO, the Timberwolves will be desperate to make a big move. They just do not have the pieces to compete with OKC or SAS right now and they know it. We also have a unique situation where a star player (who has all the leverage) seems interested in a sign and trade with the Wolves. I realize this is pipedream and some of these trades will need to be structured differently, but here go.

There are two routes: Giannis and Durant.

Do I think it's enough to put us over the edge? Nope. But I think it keeps us right there.

 

[Bob_Loblaw]

ayo, tj, ant, and jaden all are getting towards the basket. often they are aborting it partway there for a pull up to avoid wemby, other times they are going to the hoop and trying to score over him.

Julius is getting completely locked down (exact same as last year) and can't bully decent defenders which entirely ruins his post game. Mike really doesn't give you a ton of penetration ever but has run the pick and roll alright but cannot score anywhere remotely close to the hoop when wemby is in. Naz can navigate around some people occasionally, but he struggles heavily with tense ball pressure due to his handle, leading to him launching 3s at times (he's actually made a decent clip this series).

They're launching shots due to worry going into wemby because of his size and because his unique length makes it so he doesn't have to jump early which makes getting him into foul trouble really challenging (part of why I'd wish we'd run pick and roll with someone who's not terrible ass rudy when he's in the game to get him out of the paint but having to respect his guy staying outside).

I believe they would just switch and Rudy would take whoever was closer to the rim (Rudy). When we started running out lineups with fewer post players, we were getting murdered on the defensive end.

The truth is that SAS is a really awful matchup for us. They're good and they take away the thing we do best.

 

[Bob_Loblaw]

I think he’s forgetting about the Cap rules.

The order of deadline dealing was telling.

And at the time there was criticism from the NBA press apparatus that we could have gotten Ayo straight up for Conley. I saw it multiple places.

The real value was future flexibility:

Instead we got rid of 3 contracts we needed to get rid of. Meanwhile, we added the player we wanted, and got Conley back.

The draft pick swap and 4 2nds reflect the value of said flexibility as understood at the GM level of being under 1st apron, AND obtaining “2 month rental player’s” bird rights, And the trade exceptions (we have a $10.77 and 6.58 trade exceptions from both deadline deals).

Being under 1st apron is of course complex, but means something to those that get paid to do the job, and means nothing to those that pay to bitch.

Obviously it’s misunderstood at the Jamiche level. Or done so deliberately so he can maintain his position of hating everything Connelly, so that he can uphold his hatred of Arod/Lore.

Connelly has been fantastic here.

The biggest realistic issue I have with our roster construction is that we don't go after PGs but that's a Finch thing. I know I'm in the minority here, but I think Finch is a good coach. I do disagree with him on the amount of minutes we play without a true PG, but that's clearly his style.

 

[upnorthkid]

I believe they would just switch and Rudy would take whoever was closer to the rim (Rudy). When we started running out lineups with fewer post players, we were getting murdered on the defensive end.

The truth is that SAS is a really awful matchup for us. They're good and they take away the thing we do best.

yeah more meaning offensive end. Rudy is a great screener and that's about it. he's not a great rim runner/finisher. Unfortunately he offers nothing shooting outside of about 2 feet so it really hamstrings you against Wemby who can just sag off Rudy to contest shots with enough ability to recover and still contest rudy getting to the rim because Wemby is such a special talent.

SAS is probably the worst matchup for us in the league, particularly when Castle is hitting outside shots

 

[upnorthkid]

Connelly has been fantastic here.

The biggest realistic issue I have with our roster construction is that we don't go after PGs but that's a Finch thing. I know I'm in the minority here, but I think Finch is a good coach. I do disagree with him on the amount of minutes we play without a true PG, but that's clearly his style.

i also think Finch is a good coach (and league execs and fellow coaches seem to agree). I don't know if he is the right coach for this team as currently assembled and think its an interesting question of is he the right coach for maximizing Ant.

 

[Bob_Loblaw]

yeah more meaning offensive end. Rudy is a great screener and that's about it. he's not a great rim runner/finisher. Unfortunately he offers nothing shooting outside of about 2 feet so it really hamstrings you against Wemby who can just sag off Rudy to contest shots with enough ability to recover and still contest rudy getting to the rim because Wemby is such a special talent.

SAS is probably the worst matchup for us in the league, particularly when Castle is hitting outside shots

Yep, if you would have told me we would play a version of of SAS with Castle hitting shots and Dylan Harper playing the best ball of his young career, I would have have expected it to be difficult for us to compete.

They have 4 good guards - legitimately good, a couple really solid role players, and a top 3 player. I'll be rooting for them against OKC.