Time to abandon the bench?

[mnsports255]

The bench proved last night among many other games that we have one of the worst benches in the country.

Obviously we can't play our starters 40 mins a game, but it's time to abandon the hockey style substitutions at 14 minutes in the first half.

When we come to play an Indiana, Michigan, Ohio State, and even more importantly, the NCAA tournament, a five minute stretch in the first half by the 5 reserves in the 1st half could completely change the complexity of a game, and that run could prove to be the difference between a win and a loss, or sweet 16 and elite 8 for example.

An idea: Maximum of 2 bench players in at all times in the game.
Pick 1 guard, 1 forward, and 1 center to come in and each play 5 minutes a half to spell the starters and give them a rest so they can stay fresh.

Result: Always a capable lineup on the floor, starters aren't exhausted having to play the whole game, starters on the floor for the majority chunk of the game, all garbage players don't see the floor.

*Basically what Tubby did the 2nd half last night. Little bit of Welch to spare the Hollins bros for a few minutes, and preferrably Ingram to spare the forwards and centers a couple minutes or if they get into foul trouble.

Thoughts on how it should be handled??

 

[station19]

We need Welch to spell the 1 & 2.

We need EE to spell the 5.....badly-needs to get going like last yr NIT run.

We need Oto to spell the 3 & 4.....he's improving.

 

[GuyFawkes]

I'm fine with the bench as long as its not the entire bench on the floor, 2 bench players at most on the floor for me at a time. They just aren't good as a group, but they aren't bad fillers when on the floor if other starters are out there to help take the load of them. Its why I dislike the line change Tubby does, sorta why I was a fan of Trevor coming off the bench, people make a big deal about starters when all that matters is the minutes, so if trevor or any starter can get starter minutes but just at different times of the game it shouldnt matter, only thing that matters is who finishes the game, but I am not too worried about it, the team is rolling, so I can't complain.

 

[GopherJake]

Thoughts on how it should be handled??

Spitting in the wind, my friend. The bench has been very serviceable this year. Hockey style will continue at the under 16 or thereabouts. Tubby is on record for that. Good luck on your quest!

 

[Dr.Don]

We need Welch to spell the 1 & 2.

We need EE to spell the 5.....badly-needs to get going like last yr NIT run.

We need Oto to spell the 3 & 4.....he's improving.

We need mnsports255 to sit on the bench by Tubby and tell Tubby how to use his subs more effectively, and help us win the B1G by key moments of perfect bench play.

 

[barnanimal]

I've been fine with how our bench players have played this year. Sure they struggled last night, but who doesn't struggle now and then? They have been serviceable at worst so far. They'll be fine.

 

[GopherinPhilly]

They are called the bench for a reason...they play when needed...and if they were as good as the starters they'd be starters. We aren't going to play 5 guys for 40 minutes...just not going to happen. And I like the hockey changes...the second string plays together against the starters in practice...they generally play well together...especially defensively, which is their job.

You would know how Tubby feels by three words he yelled at EE when he pulled him against IL...."DO YOUR JOB!" If the second line does their job...we become very tough to beat as we are able to rest all our starters and keep all them on the floor together while our opponent is resting one or two at a time for 10-12 minutes...we rest all 5 for 5 minutes and then play 5 starters on 3 for 7 minutes. In the second half, Tubby plays the match ups and deals with fouls, etc. with the bench...but because our starters typically only played 12 minutes in the first half...they can run 18-20 in the second.

I'm with Tubby on this one.

 

[mntwinsfreak89]

I think they have held their own over the course of the season. Tubby needs them to come in and eat up some min to give the starters a break without letting the game get out of hand. Which is exactly what they have done, so until they start costing us wins, Tubby should use them as much as he feels needed.

 

[gopherbadgerman]

I am not a huge fan of the Gophs bench, but they need them. If they can get a combined 35-40 minutes a game out of them and come close to even while they are on the floor, I wouldbe happy with that. As another poster said, there is a reason they are the bench.

 

[JGopher]

The bench proved last night among many other games that we have one of the worst benches in the country.

Obviously we can't play our starters 40 mins a game, but it's time to abandon the hockey style substitutions at 14 minutes in the first half.

When we come to play an Indiana, Michigan, Ohio State, and even more importantly, the NCAA tournament, a five minute stretch in the first half by the 5 reserves in the 1st half could completely change the complexity of a game, and that run could prove to be the difference between a win and a loss, or sweet 16 and elite 8 for example.

An idea: Maximum of 2 bench players in at all times in the game.
Pick 1 guard, 1 forward, and 1 center to come in and each play 5 minutes a half to spell the starters and give them a rest so they can stay fresh.

Result: Always a capable lineup on the floor, starters aren't exhausted having to play the whole game, starters on the floor for the majority chunk of the game, all garbage players don't see the floor.

*Basically what Tubby did the 2nd half last night. Little bit of Welch to spare the Hollins bros for a few minutes, and preferrably Ingram to spare the forwards and centers a couple minutes or if they get into foul trouble.

Thoughts on how it should be handled??

This is a ridiculous statement. Our bench is fine, last night was an anomaly in terms of points. They'll continue to do their job, as Tubby asks them to.

Remember that the other team has a bench too. Often times they are playing against ours...

 

[Winasota Gopher]

The bench proved last night among many other games that we have one of the worst benches in the country.

Obviously we can't play our starters 40 mins a game, but it's time to abandon the hockey style substitutions at 14 minutes in the first half.

When we come to play an Indiana, Michigan, Ohio State, and even more importantly, the NCAA tournament, a five minute stretch in the first half by the 5 reserves in the 1st half could completely change the complexity of a game, and that run could prove to be the difference between a win and a loss, or sweet 16 and elite 8 for example.

An idea: Maximum of 2 bench players in at all times in the game.
Pick 1 guard, 1 forward, and 1 center to come in and each play 5 minutes a half to spell the starters and give them a rest so they can stay fresh.

Result: Always a capable lineup on the floor, starters aren't exhausted having to play the whole game, starters on the floor for the majority chunk of the game, all garbage players don't see the floor.

*Basically what Tubby did the 2nd half last night. Little bit of Welch to spare the Hollins bros for a few minutes, and preferrably Ingram to spare the forwards and centers a couple minutes or if they get into foul trouble.

Thoughts on how it should be handled??

No.

Didn't read post or thread, just title... Simple answer to anything you've written is,


No.

 

[minimax]

I'm fine with the bench, as long as Mo Walker is neither on it nor off it.

 

[BarnBoy]

One of the worst benches in the country?

Seriously???

Wow

 

[Costa Rican Gopher]

The bench proved last night among many other games that we have one of the worst benches in the country.

This statement is preposterous. The bench had an off night (aside from Welch), it happens.

Against NW the bench forwards alone had (EE, Ingram, Oto & Mo) 14pts, 15rebs, 3asts, 1stl, 1blk.

Against MSU the bench forwards alone had (in half the minutes) 4pts, 11rebs, 2ast, 2stl, 2blk & changed the course of the game by taking Derrick Nix completely out of the game (figuratively & literally).

 

[mnsports255]

We need mnsports255 to sit on the bench by Tubby and tell Tubby how to use his subs more effectively, and help us win the B1G by key moments of perfect bench play.

Dr Don, I love your posts, as long as it doesn't involve me. You have awesome insight that really contributes to the forum, but could you maybe just layoff of my posts since you don't like me on here?

I just figure if you don't like what I have to say, than instead of prodding me like you do, just leave the topic alone, because you have some great stuff to say otherwise!

Don't take this the wrong way though Dr. Don! You have my respect.
Go Gophers!

 

[MisterGopher]

This statement is preposterous. The bench had an off night (aside from Welch), it happens.

Against NW the bench forwards alone had (EE, Ingram, Oto & Mo) 14pts, 15rebs, 3asts, 1stl, 1blk.

Against MSU the bench forwards alone had (in half the minutes) 4pts, 11rebs, 2ast, 2stl, 2blk & changed the course of the game by taking Derrick Nix completely out of the game (figuratively & literally).

+1

Must not be watching many other college basketball teams. Ours is pretty solid.

 

[Parski1]

Tubby should just keep doing what he's doing - because it's working.

 

[mnsportsgeek]

Didn't we have like 20 some bench points against Northwestern? I guess NU is really thankful that we have such a sucky bench. They may have lost by 45 had we had a good one.

 

[Dr.Don]

Dr Don, I love your posts, as long as it doesn't involve me. You have awesome insight that really contributes to the forum, but could you maybe just layoff of my posts since you don't like me on here?

I just figure if you don't like what I have to say, than instead of prodding me like you do, just leave the topic alone, because you have some great stuff to say otherwise!

Don't take this the wrong way though Dr. Don! You have my respect.
Go Gophers!

mnsports, I in no way dislike you, as you oftentimes make some great posts that add insight to a discussion. All I tried to sarcastically do (silly me for trying that without the sarcasm icon) was to make light of your impulsive thread about how bad our bench is using a one game example for a sample space. I think, by the various comments made here, that several other posters agree that your thread was a little out of whack for what really is needed.

 

[Winasota Gopher]

Dr Don, I love your posts, as long as it doesn't involve me. You have awesome insight that really contributes to the forum, but could you maybe just layoff of my posts since you don't like me on here?

I just figure if you don't like what I have to say, than instead of prodding me like you do, just leave the topic alone, because you have some great stuff to say otherwise!

Don't take this the wrong way though Dr. Don! You have my respect.
Go Gophers!

Don't post dumb sensationalist posts and this will never happen again....

You've done this to yourself and have no one to blame but you.

 

[SelectionSunday]

We need our bench & will continue to need our bench, but I'm glad Tubby has shortened it considerably with the advent of Big Ten play. When you have horses, ride 'em.

I hope it sticks that Welch is the guy Tubby turns to when Andre (or Austin) needs a break or is in foul trouble. I prefer when Welch is the first guard off the bench.

 

[SonOfTheVarsity]

The bench proved last night among many other games that we have one of the worst benches in the country.

Others have said it, but, man, this is a dumb take. Different bench players have stepped up with key contributions in different games this year. They did struggle against Illinois, but each bench player played for about 5 minutes (outside of Welch, who had a solid game). If you only looked at the first 5 minutes our starters played, you would have been almost equally unimpressed.

The fact is, this was a fast-paced, hectic, up-and-down game. It's tough to just step in cold from the bench and immediately adjust to that pace of play (especially for Goose or Mo, who aren't suited for a fast-paced game anyway). I bet if Mav, Andre Ingram, or even Goose got to stay in a while, settle down, and adjust to the pace of play, they would have been OK. But they're bench players, so if they struggle, they get yanked before they can work it out by themselves.

They stunk, but it's one bad game from a bench that has otherwise been pretty solid.

 

[tinyarch]

Is the bench an offensive juggernaut that will spark the team and extend leads? Nope. But, neither will anyone else's bench. The announcers for the Illini game went out of their way to talk about the defensive tenacity of the Gophers. In that area there is very little dropoff with the bench. That is what reserves are often called on to do...they are to play great defense and score a couple points if they can. In that light, the Gophers bench does exactly what reserves are supposed to do.

Where I get frustrated is in the wholesale subbing that takes all offensive minded players off the court in exchange for five guys who will play hardnosed defense, but struggle to cash in on the offensive end. That becomes a liability if those reserves can't score and struggle to keep the opponents offense in check. I would prefer seeing a couple substitutes at a time rather than the wholesale substitution pattern Tubby uses. However, Tubby's system hasn't cost us a victory yet this season so I guess until his substitution pattern clearly results in a loss, I can't spend too much time harping on it.

 

[lakesgopher]

Is the bench an offensive juggernaut that will spark the team and extend leads? Nope. But, neither will anyone else's bench. The announcers for the Illini game went out of their way to talk about the defensive tenacity of the Gophers. In that area there is very little dropoff with the bench. That is what reserves are often called on to do...they are to play great defense and score a couple points if they can. In that light, the Gophers bench does exactly what reserves are supposed to do.

Where I get frustrated is in the wholesale subbing that takes all offensive minded players off the court in exchange for five guys who will play hardnosed defense, but struggle to cash in on the offensive end. That becomes a liability if those reserves can't score and struggle to keep the opponents offense in check. I would prefer seeing a couple substitutes at a time rather than the wholesale substitution pattern Tubby uses. However, Tubby's system hasn't cost us a victory yet this season so I guess until his substitution pattern clearly results in a loss, I can't spend too much time harping on it.

I agree, but I would add many fans are building unfair expectations for the gophers. People get pissed when we miss a shot or our opponent scores. I noticed so many people throwing fits over the smallest things vs Illinois and I think it's solely based on unfair expectations. People need to remember that the other teams are pretty good and they will beat us at certain points of the game, its all about how we respond

 

[bga1]

We need our bench & will continue to need our bench, but I'm glad Tubby has shortened it considerably with the advent of Big Ten play. When you have horses, ride 'em.

I hope it sticks that Welch is the guy Tubby turns to when Andre (or Austin) needs a break or is in foul trouble. I prefer when Welch is the first guard off the bench.

^ This is right. Our bench is okay. I agree with those that say they don't want all of the bench out on the floor together. The one thing I wish for is a "6th man". I wish we had a guy who is a sparkplug and understands his role. But that's just wishing- we are having a great year so I am happy.

 

[Winnipegopher]

^ This is right. Our bench is okay. I agree with those that say they don't want all of the bench out on the floor together. The one thing I wish for is a "6th man". I wish we had a guy who is a sparkplug and understands his role. But that's just wishing- we are having a great year so I am happy.

I agree. Oto seems like he could be that guy but never seems to put it together.

 

[tmvander]

The guys announcing the game the other night said it best. The job of the bench is to MAINTAIN the basketball game when they come in. They don't need to come in and double our lead in 5 minutes. They need to give our starters a breather, eat come clock, and like others said, do their job.

I would lie if I said my butthole didn't pucker a little every time Mav has a little press on him, or Oto jacks a deep 3, but we need to understand that the role of the bench is simply to maintain where the game is at and not to take it over.

 

[GophersInIowa]

The bench proved last night among many other games that we have one of the worst benches in the country.

Obviously we can't play our starters 40 mins a game, but it's time to abandon the hockey style substitutions at 14 minutes in the first half.

When we come to play an Indiana, Michigan, Ohio State, and even more importantly, the NCAA tournament, a five minute stretch in the first half by the 5 reserves in the 1st half could completely change the complexity of a game, and that run could prove to be the difference between a win and a loss, or sweet 16 and elite 8 for example.

An idea: Maximum of 2 bench players in at all times in the game.
Pick 1 guard, 1 forward, and 1 center to come in and each play 5 minutes a half to spell the starters and give them a rest so they can stay fresh.

Result: Always a capable lineup on the floor, starters aren't exhausted having to play the whole game, starters on the floor for the majority chunk of the game, all garbage players don't see the floor.

*Basically what Tubby did the 2nd half last night. Little bit of Welch to spare the Hollins bros for a few minutes, and preferrably Ingram to spare the forwards and centers a couple minutes or if they get into foul trouble.

Thoughts on how it should be handled??

What did the Northwestern game prove then? You know when the bench scored at almost the same rate per minute as the starters. You know when the bench had nearly twice as many assists as the starters in a lot less minutes.

I don't disagree with the rest of your take though. Most agree that the line changes sucks. I think our bench players would do very well if they got to play with some starters. Most every team in the country would see drop offs in production most games if they had five subs in at one time.

 

[GopherJake]

The one thing I wish for is a "6th man". I wish we had a guy who is a sparkplug and understands his role. But that's just wishing- we are having a great year so I am happy.

Biggest differences between this team and the 96-97 team:

1. Bobby Jackson!

2. Quincy Lewis (6th man - "Instant Offense")

3. Charles Thomas (7th man - more offense)

That said, teams just aren't as deep now with all the early departures to the NBA. But yes, one reliable scorer off the bench anywhere near Quincy or Charles Thomas would be very helpful, but I don't think we have it. So, they need to play to their strengths. Defense, rebounding and chip in a few here and there. Maintain.

 

[HOOP DREAMS]

The bench proved last night among many other games that we have one of the worst benches in the country.QUOTE]

What makes it so glairing we have one of the best starting five players in the country that play extreamly well with each outher.

The bench is just fine. How do you expect them to get into a rytem playing 5 minutes a game? There job right now is to get our starting 5 a quick rest and not turnover the ball!