Time for Line-up Change?

kiedro

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Is it time for Richard to change the Gophers starting line-up?
We need more defense and rebounding. Should Murphy replace Buggs at the three?
 

howeda7

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I'd rather start Murphy at the 5. If we're going to get killed on the board either way, may as well have some additional offense from the position. Nothing against Bakary, but he'll play the same amount of minutes and foul out coming off the bench.
 

goldy93

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I do not think it matters. He can change the starting line up all he wants, but the game is 40 minutes long and we do not have the players to compete for a full 40 minutes. This team lacks toughness, discipline and we have a poor inside game. The live-by-the-3, die-by-the-3 game plan will not work and we will upset some teams when we get hot, but we are go to lose to some teams that we should not when we go cold and get out rebounded.

I am not all that impressed with what Pitino has done, or maybe I should say what he has failed to do. After last year, how many people are willing to go through what possibly could be a losing season this year? These are all Pitino’s players (other than Buggs), so the Tubby excuse is gone. I do not see us making a quantum leap next year, maybe an incremental one and probably not enough to get us to the NCAA tourney. Then what? Give it another year? Why? Tubby at least took us to the NCAA tourney 2 out of the first 3 years he was here.
 

GophersInIowa

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I do not think it matters. He can change the starting line up all he wants, but the game is 40 minutes long and we do not have the players to compete for a full 40 minutes. This team lacks toughness, discipline and we have a poor inside game. The live-by-the-3, die-by-the-3 game plan will not work and we will upset some teams when we get hot, but we are go to lose to some teams that we should not when we go cold and get out rebounded.

I am not all that impressed with what Pitino has done, or maybe I should say what he has failed to do. After last year, how many people are willing to go through what possibly could be a losing season this year? These are all Pitino’s players (other than Buggs), so the Tubby excuse is gone. I do not see us making a quantum leap next year, maybe an incremental one and probably not enough to get us to the NCAA tourney. Then what? Give it another year? Why? Tubby at least took us to the NCAA tourney 2 out of the first 3 years he was here.

Well I think we have to wait until next year to see for sure what happens. The hope is the young guys will be more experienced and we will have two transfer players who should help out a lot.

I'm skeptical as well but I think next season will tell us the most in my opinion.
 

Tim1406

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I do not think it matters. He can change the starting line up all he wants, but the game is 40 minutes long and we do not have the players to compete for a full 40 minutes. This team lacks toughness, discipline and we have a poor inside game. The live-by-the-3, die-by-the-3 game plan will not work and we will upset some teams when we get hot, but we are go to lose to some teams that we should not when we go cold and get out rebounded.

I am not all that impressed with what Pitino has done, or maybe I should say what he has failed to do. After last year, how many people are willing to go through what possibly could be a losing season this year? These are all Pitino’s players (other than Buggs), so the Tubby excuse is gone. I do not see us making a quantum leap next year, maybe an incremental one and probably not enough to get us to the NCAA tourney. Then what? Give it another year? Why? Tubby at least took us to the NCAA tourney 2 out of the first 3 years he was here.

I do. I would put money down that Lynch is better than Konate(least confident on this one), That Fitzgerald is better than Buggs and that Coffey is better than Morris right now. That means that even with no improvement 60% of our starting line-up next year will be better than what we have this year. Let alone Mason and Dorsey getting another year and murphy getting another year to develop into a starting quality PF(sometimes he already looks like he could be). Basketball is a funny sport where 1 different player can have a huge impact on how your team plays... but we'll have 3 new starters (minimum, buggs might move to the 4) next year.
 


Goph4phan

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Is it time for Richard to change the Gophers starting line-up?
We need more defense and rebounding. Should Murphy replace Buggs at the three?

I like this idea, as long as Murphy can keep himself out of foul trouble. Murphy brings a nose for the ball. Buggs is one of those guys, unfortunately, who cannot be counted on to show up mentally and physically every night. And its unfortunate.
 

golfing18now

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Well I think we have to wait until next year to see for sure what happens. The hope is the young guys will be more experienced and we will have two transfer players who should help out a lot.

I'm skeptical as well but I think next season will tell us the most in my opinion.

I think what gives me the most hope for the Gophers in general and this coaching regime in particular is the fact that each Gophers recruiting class has been arguably/clearly better than the previous under Pitino. We obviously will have some growing pains this year, but hopefully we will see some development and improvement as the year goes by. That being said, we will need to see some improvement in the record next year or this program will start to develop a stink/level of apathy that gets tough to remove. It will also be key to not lose any or these players to defections or other issues.
 

bga1

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We should play Konate as much as possible in these non-conference games. He needs game time badly, and of course he needs to foul less to stay in the game longer. I also think Murphy needs more time. I would move Buggs to backup center - in addition to filling in at the 3 and 4. Gaston is just not ready and Buggs is plenty big enough to put some time in at the 5 and can block some shots in there. Buggs is a good passer out of the high post- he moves it quickly.
 

scools12

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These are all Pitino’s players (other than Buggs), so the Tubby excuse is gone. I do not see us making a quantum leap next year, maybe an incremental one and probably not enough to get us to the NCAA tourney. Then what? Give it another year? Why?

Curious on what you are suggesting here. Are you saying based on last year's performance and 5 games into this freshmen's class season it's time to move on from Pitino after this season? Maybe I am reading it wrong but I would think that might be a bit premature.

Most people understand what type of season the team is looking at as far as their win loss record. Hopefully the team shows improvement each month. Asking a whole lot more than that is unrealistic.
 



jovs

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I do. I would put money down that Lynch is better than Konate(least confident on this one)

Lynch just doesn't move well enough to be the starter, he will be fine as a backup that gives quality minutes, I just don't ever see him starting.
 

adchester

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Lynch just doesn't move well enough to be the starter, he will be fine as a backup that gives quality minutes, I just don't ever see him starting.

Lynch can rebound and play great D, that alone will get him in the starting lineup IMO. You can't overlook the effect an elite rim protector has on the game.
 

bemidjigopher

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As for this year, you could see it coming two years ago based on the make up of the roster. The only way it wasn't was if Pitino could pull in a recruiting class in 2014 that for a guy who had one year as a head coach at FIU is unrealistic. Having Reid Travis would've helped a lot this year. Him and Murphy rebounding down low would have put less of an emphasis on Konate and let king do what he does best on the perimeter. The calvary is coming next year, the infantry just needs to hold the line
 

Moonlight

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As for this year, you could see it coming two years ago based on the make up of the roster. The only way it wasn't was if Pitino could pull in a recruiting class in 2014 that for a guy who had one year as a head coach at FIU is unrealistic. Having Reid Travis would've helped a lot this year. Him and Murphy rebounding down low would have put less of an emphasis on Konate and let king do what he does best on the perimeter. The calvary is coming next year, the infantry just needs to hold the line
Yes. I'll restate my view for this year: the most important thing is that these players don't get their confidence destroyed on their way to next year.
 



cjbfbp

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Curious on what you are suggesting here. Are you saying based on last year's performance and 5 games into this freshmen's class season it's time to move on from Pitino after this season? Maybe I am reading it wrong but I would think that might be a bit premature.

I don't think that is what he is saying. He's saying that if the Gophers have a bad year this year, followed by a better but still underwhelming one next year, perhaps Pitino should not be given a 5th year. If that is the way the two years unfolded, I don't think I'd be sorry to see him go.
 

cjbfbp

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We should play Konate as much as possible in these non-conference games. He needs game time badly, and of course he needs to foul less to stay in the game longer. I also think Murphy needs more time. I would move Buggs to backup center - in addition to filling in at the 3 and 4. Gaston is just not ready and Buggs is plenty big enough to put some time in at the 5 and can block some shots in there. Buggs is a good passer out of the high post- he moves it quickly.

I agree that Konate needs to play. There really is no other choice. He looked good against Temple and I still believe he has the potential to be a significant contributor.
 

cjbfbp

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I do not think it matters. He can change the starting line up all he wants, but the game is 40 minutes long and we do not have the players to compete for a full 40 minutes.

Well, that might be the long and short of it, but the coach can't take that attitude 5 games into the season and I'm not ready to take it either.
 

cjbfbp

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I understand why all this talk of tinkering with the lineup focuses on the big men, but there is another area where some tinkering might be warranted. Dupree is 2-17 from the floor, has a .247 true shooting percentage (mostly because of making 7 of 11 free throws), and has a player efficiency rating of -2.4 after five games. That's only slightly better than Gaston's PER of -3.3.

Meanwhile, Ahmad Gilbert has played in only 2 games so far. I think Pitino should consider giving Ahmad more minutes at the expense of Dupree. I don't see how he can do any worse.

Dorsey has been pretty ugly so far, too, but there really isn't any alternative to playing him significant minutes.
 

goldy93

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Well, that might be the long and short of it, but the coach can't take that attitude 5 games into the season and I'm not ready to take it either.

I am just frustrated, because I am not so convinced Pitino knows what he is doing and people keep saying just wait until next year and I guess I see it as just blind faith. What evidence is there that he is going to get it done? None. Teague took a flyer on someone with a grand total of 1 year head coaching experience and, much like last year, I get the feeling he is in over his head. If his name was Bob Johnson with the same resume, I think there would be a lot more questions from people, but due to his last name and famous father he is given way too much latitude. Nothing like using our program for learning on the job....
 

cjbfbp

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I am just frustrated, because I am not so convinced Pitino knows what he is doing and people keep saying just wait until next year and I guess I see it as just blind faith. What evidence is there that he is going to get it done? None. Teague took a flyer on someone with a grand total of 1 year head coaching experience and, much like last year, I get the feeling he is in over his head. If his name was Bob Johnson with the same resume, I think there would be a lot more questions from people, but due to his last name and famous father he is given way too much latitude. Nothing like using our program for learning on the job....

I agree with everything you've said. The Big Ten is a veteran coaches' league where men who have paid their dues are elevated after some level of accomplishment in the profession. Even Chris Collins who had no previous head coaching experience was an assistant since the late nineties and spent 13 years of that time under Coach K. He was 39 when he was named Northwestern's head coach. He also did something else that Pitino never did: played the game at a high level.

I don't know whether Pitino will succeed here or not, but we're stuck with him for the present so we might as well hope that he does.
 

goldy93

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I agree with everything you've said. The Big Ten is a veteran coaches' league where men who have paid their dues are elevated after some level of accomplishment in the profession. Even Chris Collins who had no previous head coaching experience was an assistant since the late nineties and spent 13 years of that time under Coach K. He was 39 when he was named Northwestern's head coach. He also did something else that Pitino never did: played the game at a high level.

I don't know whether Pitino will succeed here or not, but we're stuck with him for the present so we might as well hope that he does.

I know. I want him succeed. I love watching Gopher hoops and it is going to be painful this year.
 

60's Guy

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Pitino can coach...he is not good at managing a roster.
 

adchester

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This is just a weird year, almost a complete roster turnover occurred, for reasons that had nothing to do with Pitino. Any coach would struggle with this roster. I'm just looking for improvement among the young guys, and at least a bubble team next year. If that doesn't happen I'll start getting worried.
 

Zeppelin Gopher

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This thread is funny. Did people actually think we would be good this season?

Get the youngsters some experience, try to sneak out a big win or two @ the Barn, figure out which guys are in over their heads and could be best off transferring (cough cough Diedhou). Then roll it out next fall and we will really see what Pitino can do.
 

bga1

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I understand why all this talk of tinkering with the lineup focuses on the big men, but there is another area where some tinkering might be warranted. Dupree is 2-17 from the floor, has a .247 true shooting percentage (mostly because of making 7 of 11 free throws), and has a player efficiency rating of -2.4 after five games. That's only slightly better than Gaston's PER of -3.3.

Meanwhile, Ahmad Gilbert has played in only 2 games so far. I think Pitino should consider giving Ahmad more minutes at the expense of Dupree. I don't see how he can do any worse.

Dorsey has been pretty ugly so far, too, but there really isn't any alternative to playing him significant minutes.

With McBrayer and Dorsey - you can see the talent. They need game time and a little more calm confidence and their outside shots will start falling Dupree has a good stroke. Those kids will be fine, maybe even great players in time.
 

Blackhammer

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This thread is funny. Did people actually think we would be good this season?

Get the youngsters some experience, try to sneak out a big win or two @ the Barn, figure out which guys are in over their heads and could be best off transferring (cough cough Diedhou). Then roll it out next fall and we will really see what Pitino can do.
x2 well stated.
 

station19

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We should play Konate as much as possible in these non-conference games. He needs game time badly, and of course he needs to foul less to stay in the game longer. I also think Murphy needs more time. I would move Buggs to backup center - in addition to filling in at the 3 and 4. Gaston is just not ready and Buggs is plenty big enough to put some time in at the 5 and can block some shots in there. Buggs is a good passer out of the high post- he moves it quickly.

This thread is funny. Did people actually think we would be good this season?

Get the youngsters some experience, try to sneak out a big win or two @ the Barn, figure out which guys are in over their heads and could be best off transferring (cough cough Diedhou). Then roll it out next fall and we will really see what Pitino can do.

Yep and Yep..with emphasis.
 

tinyarch

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I do not think it matters. He can change the starting line up all he wants, but the game is 40 minutes long and we do not have the players to compete for a full 40 minutes. This team lacks toughness, discipline and we have a poor inside game. The live-by-the-3, die-by-the-3 game plan will not work and we will upset some teams when we get hot, but we are go to lose to some teams that we should not when we go cold and get out rebounded.

I am not all that impressed with what Pitino has done, or maybe I should say what he has failed to do. After last year, how many people are willing to go through what possibly could be a losing season this year? These are all Pitino’s players (other than Buggs), so the Tubby excuse is gone. I do not see us making a quantum leap next year, maybe an incremental one and probably not enough to get us to the NCAA tourney. Then what? Give it another year? Why? Tubby at least took us to the NCAA tourney 2 out of the first 3 years he was here.

Always pining for leaks and onions in Egypt when you should be looking toward the promised land. :rolleyes:
 

rkhmncfo

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Always pining for leaks and onions in Egypt when you should be looking toward the promised land. :rolleyes:
I have no idea what this means, but if it means we will have 20+wins next year, great.

Sent from my SM-T800 using Tapatalk
 

bleedsmaroonandgold

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Curious on what you are suggesting here. Are you saying based on last year's performance and 5 games into this freshmen's class season it's time to move on from Pitino after this season? Maybe I am reading it wrong but I would think that might be a bit premature.

Most people understand what type of season the team is looking at as far as their win loss record. Hopefully the team shows improvement each month. Asking a whole lot more than that is unrealistic.

Is it unrealistic to hope that this is not the worst Gophers team of the last 8 years? I don't want to judge this year's team too prematurely, but they look bad so far.
 

cjbfbp

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Is it unrealistic to hope that this is not the worst Gophers team of the last 8 years? I don't want to judge this year's team too prematurely, but they look bad so far.


Indeed they have looked bad and they might be the worst Gopher team of the past 8 years. In fact, if not for Monson/Molinari team that won 9 games, they might end up being the worst team of the century.

We should consider two things, though:

1) Pitino's teams have had disappointing Thanksgiving time tournaments in each of his three years and he's appeared outcoached in each of them. After those tournaments, though, his teams played well for the rest of the nonconference. We have a poorer roster and a harder nonconference this year, so I don't expect quite the same results but we could look like a much better team going into the conference schedule than we look now.

2) We're not the only Big Ten team that is struggling. Illinois has been worse. They needed a three pointer at the buzzer to beat perennial bottom feeder Chicago State and avoid going 1-4. So far the Big Ten looks like a league with 6 or 7 good to very good teams and remaining teams that range from weak to so-so. The good news is that we play only 7 games against the likely top 6 teams.
 




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