Tillman Committed

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Is this the thread where people are talking about the Dave Matthews band and funny smelling objects?
 

Ole said:
Who would have been starting had Wills and Simmons not been recruited? Maybe Collado and ?
Do you remember Collado in 08 against NIU? Simmons stepped in and played lights out for most of 08, regressed a bit this year under a new scheme. Wills struggled early, but also was an upgrade to Wynn from 08.
Brock was a stud that obviously didn't take school seriously enough. Watch the 08 wisky game and tell me he wouldn't have helped at least slow the grinding running game that beat us this past year. His maturity and thirst for knowledge can be questioned but not his talent.
If we get JUCO contributions similar to Wills, Brock and Simmons out of Eyre, Thornton, Lewis, and Tillman we'll be sitting good. That would mean 4 day 1 starters that play 12 games at a solid level.
That's not even bringing in Lawrence and Mckinley who were not only solid, but high impact guys.
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I agree with everything you wrote with a couple of exceptions:

1. "(Wills) was an upgrade to Wynn from 08." Not from what I saw. Wills was a giagantic liability last year. That doesn't mean he can't improve and perform well during his senior year but Wynn in '08 >>>>>>Wills in '09

2. McKinley was solid at times but I would never describe him as a high impact player.

My personal opinion is that of all the JUCOs that Brewster has brought into the program, only Lawrence and McKinley have met expectations. I expected more from BPT and getting only 1 year from Brock can't be seen as anything other than a disappointment, regardless of the fact that it most likely had nothing to do with Brewster. That's certainly not an embarrassment in terms of productivity from his JUCOs but let's not rewrite history. Not great, not poor. Somewhere in between.

For the record, I'm quite skeptical of signing a JUCO player with no other offers from a school 9 days before National Signing Day. That's a red flag to me. Certainly he'll have the chance to prove whether he can play but to an unbiased outsider with the facts presented, it would look troubling.
 

ConferenceChamp said:
Isn't this more of a Glen Mason recruiting philosophy?:eek:

Didn't someone say the Brew was gonna recruit at a 'different level'?
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This year's defense was the best it's been in 10 years. The offense will come around and Brew will have one of the best teams in the country, hopefully in 2010.
 

Iceland12 said:
Ole: this isn't a argument of facts or logic with this guy. What's the point. Take a look at his posts. He's either a troll of the first order or he considers Hauenstein and Corn Flakes the breakfast of Champions...
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If it involves Hauenstein, it is fit for Kings. A mere champion is not enough.
 

Schlic Daddy said:
This year's defense was the best it's been in 10 years. The offense will come around and Brew will have one of the best teams in the country, hopefully in 2010.
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Technically when looking at scoring defense it was better in 2003 and 2004
 


GopherGod said:
Technically when looking at scoring defense it was better in 2003 and 2004
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2003/2004 we had an offense that was run based and took great time off the clock. The best defense we had then was our offense.
 

GopherGod said:
Technically when looking at scoring defense it was better in 2003 and 2004
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I think you have to account for opponents and the type of offense that was being played a little bit there.

2003: They gave up 10 to Tulsa, 7 to Troy, 20 to Ohio, 14 to LA-Laffayette, 7 to Indiana. You don't think their scoring defense was boosted by those opponents? They gave up 38 to Michigan, 44 to MSU, 34 to Wisconsin, and 40 to Iowa, and this was with a ball control offense that should have eaten up a lot of clock.

2004: 21 to Toledo, 21 to Illinois State, 16 to Colorado State, not as good against the cupcakes. But they shutout Illinois, 7 to Penn State, so they had some good performances. They also gave up 51 to MSU, 30 to Indiana, and 38 to Wisconsin. Again, this is with an offense that limited their time on the field.


2009: 13 to SD State, 20 to Syracuse, 12 to Iowa. Gave up 38 to OSU, 34 to MSU, 35 to Cal, 35 to Illinois. I think we can all agree however, that offense did them zero favors and had them in bad positions quite often. They never gave up 40 to anyone, though OSU came close lol. This defense was better than '03 or '04. That's why it was such a shame the offense blew so much.
 


Pewterschmidt said:
I agree with everything you wrote with a couple of exceptions:

1. "(Wills) was an upgrade to Wynn from 08." Not from what I saw. Wills was a giagantic liability last year. That doesn't mean he can't improve and perform well during his senior year but Wynn in '08 >>>>>>Wills in '09

2. McKinley was solid at times but I would never describe him as a high impact player.

My personal opinion is that of all the JUCOs that Brewster has brought into the program, only Lawrence and McKinley have met expectations. I expected more from BPT and getting only 1 year from Brock can't be seen as anything other than a disappointment, regardless of the fact that it most likely had nothing to do with Brewster. That's certainly not an embarrassment in terms of productivity from his JUCOs but let's not rewrite history. Not great, not poor. Somewhere in between.

For the record, I'm quite skeptical of signing a JUCO player with no other offers from a school 9 days before National Signing Day. That's a red flag to me. Certainly he'll have the chance to prove whether he can play but to an unbiased outsider with the facts presented, it would look troubling.
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Nice, some actual football talk broken down intelligently!

I actually stand by my Wills vs Wynn take. Wynn was probably playing at 270 lbs in 08 and was manhandled in alot of games. Wills could at least hold up once in awhile. The change in offenses might have something to do with it all too. Wynn was playing in a spread scheme that pretty much allowed the defense to deal out punishment to the pass blocking Olinemen all game.
Lets be clear though, whoever played RT the last 2 years needs to improve in 2010, neither Wills nor Wynn were stellar.

The JUCOS were solid, you are correct not great not poor. Mckinley's impact was more substantial this year especially in the NW game and his absence was felt badly in the wisky game.
Lawrence, Simmons, and Brock all made big plays on occasion, which complimented the bluecollar solid defense guys like Campbell, Tripplett, Small, Brown, Theret etc provided.

The JUCOS this year do point to some heat on Brewster and his staff to produce a successful campaign, I don't think many would argue against that. However, he is replacing some of the JUCOS and guys that left from 08, if the production is solid these guys will help out immediately and allow the large group of 09 redshirts to contribute gradually like many 08 RSfreshmen and sophmores did this year. If the kids can play they'll help the team out, if not they'll get beat out by younger guys(see Rex Sharpe)

As for arguing with trolls, I don't mind it, at least it might help clarify false assumptions and rumors the troll idiots bring into a place like this where new or mildly interested fans might come to read things.
 




dpodoll68 said:
I guess you missed the part where Wills started and played every game.

Simmons was 2nd-team all conference in 2008, regressed somewhat last year, but was still starting at the end of the season (and was still honorable mention).

Brock was our best defender in 2008. You're right, though, it's Brewster's responsibility to hold every player's hand, walk them to each class, and make sure they get their work done.

If your expectations for success are that each player comes in and makes first-team All-America, you're going to be left wanting.

You're not trying hard enough. Keep digging.
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Apparently you are content with 6-7 and being in the rearview mirror of programs like Iowa State and their ROOKIE coach; I will leave you to wallow in your satisfaction. You would think the gentleman who single-handedly brought Vince Young to Texas would be able to do a little better than Wills or Wynn. Yes, true freshmen do start.. RS sophs too!
 


Gopher Realist62 said:
Apparently you are content with 6-7 and being in the rearview mirror of programs like Iowa State and their ROOKIE coach; I will leave you to wallow in your satisfaction. You would think the gentleman who single-handedly brought Vince Young to Texas would be able to do a little better than Wills or Wynn. Yes, true freshmen do start.. RS sophs too!
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Non sequiturs are awesome.

When proven wrong on one point, you randomly go off on another tangent? Fantastic.

You act like my 3-year-old son. Alex, is that you? Get away from the keyboard!!
 



dpodoll68 said:
Non sequiturs are awesome.

When proven wrong on one point, you randomly go off on another tangent? Fantastic.

You act like my 3-year-old son. Alex, is that you? Get away from the keyboard!!
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Nice try, but the point is the same; you can't get it done in the Big 10 with JUCOs and CCs.
 

Gopher Realist62 said:
Nice try, but the point is the same; you can't get it done in the Big 10 with JUCOs and CCs.
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Again with the non sequiturs! Awesome!

First, your point was "we have gone the CC/JUCO route and it has not worked out." By saying that, there is an inherent implication that that route could work out.

You got lost somewhere in the middle, but now at least you're backing talking about JuCos again. Only now, this time, you say that you can't win in the Big Ten with JuCos?

So which is it? It can't be both.

What is more likely is that you don't know your ass from a hole in the ground, and you're just bitching to hear your own head rattle.

News flash: it's not at all difficult to be pessimistic with Gopher football. You are in no way, shape, or form unique whatsoever.

One other tip: the words "realistic" and "optimistic" are not mutually exclusive. You should try it sometime.
 

MNBadgerGuy said:
Is anyone concerned about the amount of JUCOS being brought in?
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Maybe a little, but not really. 4 out of 23 isn't a huge deal to me. Oregon has 3 of 17, Nebraska has 3 of 18, FSU has 3 of 21. You won't see many, if any next season. When you have a bigger class, you will use JUCOs to sometimes add some depth to weak areas, which for us would be TE and secondary.
 

Gopher Realist62 said:
Apparently you are content with 6-7 and being in the rearview mirror of programs like Iowa State and their ROOKIE coach; I will leave you to wallow in your satisfaction. You would think the gentleman who single-handedly brought Vince Young to Texas would be able to do a little better than Wills or Wynn. Yes, true freshmen do start.. RS sophs too!
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Nobody here is content with 6-7. Nobody including the fans, AD, coaches, and players.

We got beat by ISU, it sucked, it might have even hurt our pride. We'll bounce back.

Their rookie coach did a good job, no reason not to give credit, no reason to make it more than it is.

Again, nobody is satisfied.

Vince Young was a QB, Wills and Wynn are linemen, apples to oranges. Linemen take time to develop strength, Wynn was forced into duty due to poor talent in the upperclassmen, Wills was recruited specifically to keep that from happening to the 09 freshmen Olinemen. BTW Vince Young was very up and down early in his career, he matured and developed, so will Brewster's recruits.

Yes, true freshmen do start. Not often, and when they do they often are surrounded by talented teammates to take pressure off them.
RS sophs often start, I'm incredibly excited to see some of Brewster's RS Sophs next year, Cooper and Wilhite should be ready to have great years. It would have been nice to have had the luxury to RS some of the other 08 recruits like stoudemire, green, mcknight, edwards, kirksey, tinsley, eskridge, salamon, etc.
Wynn was hurt this year, you know that right?
 

dpodoll68 said:
Again with the non sequiturs! Awesome!

First, your point was "we have gone the CC/JUCO route and it has not worked out." By saying that, there is an inherent implication that that route could work out.

You got lost somewhere in the middle, but now at least you're backing talking about JuCos again. Only now, this time, you say that you can't win in the Big Ten with JuCos?

So which is it? It can't be both.

What is more likely is that you don't know your ass from a hole in the ground, and you're just bitching to hear your own head rattle.

News flash: it's not at all difficult to be pessimistic with Gopher football. You are in no way, shape, or form unique whatsoever.

One other tip: the words "realistic" and "optimistic" are not mutually exclusive. You should try it sometime.
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Are you this mean to the New Guy (FNG) at work as well?
 

Ole, agree the idea that JUCO's give the redshirts time to be integrated slowly. It will be a good stop gap and pay off down the line.
 

littlebigboy said:
Ole, agree the idea that JUCO's give the redshirts time to be integrated slowly. It will be a good stop gap and pay off down the line.
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Honestly that's what they are recruited for, to be solid pieces to fill in until young players are ready.
 

I agree, at least on the defensive side of the ball. We're bringing in DB's that can allow our young guys to develop. Now on offense? I think it's a horrible idea to bring in a JuCo, since they seem to struggle to learn the offense in their limited time.
 

magpie said:
I agree, at least on the defensive side of the ball. We're bringing in DB's that can allow our young guys to develop. Now on offense? I think it's a horrible idea to bring in a JuCo, since they seem to struggle to learn the offense in their limited time.
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We've done pretty well with the JUCO defenders, so I am not too worried about the guys there are bring in. I am still optimistic about Hayo's chances to be an impact player this fall.
 

MNBadgerGuy said:
Is anyone concerned about the amount of JUCOS being brought in?
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Not really. 4 seems about right to me given the fact that the program is graduating a ton of senior starters. We're not to the point where we've turned into Kansas State. I think it was just 2 years ago when they brought in around 15 JUCOs.

I'm more concerned about their position and whether they can actually play. Bringing in Eure makes sense given the loss of Tow-Arnett and it means competition for Lair (and I'll throw McGarry in the mix as well). Thornton will be in the mix at safety, which needed some depth due to the departure of Dandridge. Lewis for the same reasons because of the exodus of Simmons and Sherels. Every team needs at least 4 corners. As for Tillman, I don't quite understand it yet for several reasons.

I'd be puzzled if they brought in a JUCO LB for example. That would signal to me the coaches aren't completely sold on the prospects of the large group of supposedly talented underclassman at the position. As for TE, S, and CB, I don't see a problem with one JUCO at each position this year.
 

magpie said:
I agree, at least on the defensive side of the ball. We're bringing in DB's that can allow our young guys to develop. Now on offense? I think it's a horrible idea to bring in a JuCo, since they seem to struggle to learn the offense in their limited time.
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That's a great point. I think the learning curve for offense is so much higher than it is for defense. It usually can take a year to learn an offense and get comfortable with it and at the point, a JUCO has one year left. In Pittman's case, he gets injured his senior year and never really gets an opportunity.
 


I have no problem with bringing in a number of JUCO players into this years class. I think that it may help to balance the # of students in each class. We are unbalanced and this may be one of the factors in the decision to bring in a few JUCO's this year.
 

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