Thomas Giel: Don’t blame Paul Giel for end of the brickhouse

Donate To GopherHole

Seems to me....

Paul Giel is not getting the accolades he deserves, even after his death.
If he were alive, he would have an ear-to-ear grin when TCF Bank Stadium opens. I've not kept up to date on who will be honored as former Gophers, but, I know the last I heard, Giel was kept off the list. How can that be? He may be the #1 Gopher of all time, certainly top 5.
Bud Grant? He happened to attend the University of Minnesota and as far as I can tell, never looked back. I'm sure he'll enjoy the free chicken breast dinner and probably will look for more ways to line his own pocket.
 

Don't know what you mean that Giel hasn't been honored. He has his name up inside the stadium. 1 of 4 Gophers in the history of the program.

If you mean that his family wasn't invited as an honorary captain like Sandy Stephens family was? I guess I'm not sure why.
Along the same lines I didn't see any of Bronko Nagurski's family invited onto the field either.
Or Bruce Smiths.

Let's not read to much into this.

Of course Giel shouldn't be blamed for the Metrodome move. The U of M should be blamed. It also should be said that college football was in a totally different place in 1980 than it is now.

Here is how I look at the past 30 years...the U of M conducted an experiment. They wanted to see what playing in a multipurpose facility (which would be shared by 2 other professional sports) and measure the effect it would have on its college team.

We now can see that teams like Miami (playing in Dolphins Stadium), Pitt (playing in Steelers stadium), and Syracuse (playing in a dome) will not be successful down the road due to the sharing of professional off campus stadiums. They will find over time that kids will chose the college experience over playing close to home. They will find that having a place to call home, to protect and defend goes a longggg ways in the success of the program.

I will predict that the above mentioned schools will be playing in on campus stadiums within the next 25 years. In Syracuse's case they will tear down the Carrier dome in favor of an open air stadium.
 

GoGophers2005 said:
I will predict that the above mentioned schools will be playing in on campus stadiums within the next 25 years. In Syracuse's case they will tear down the Carrier dome in favor of an open air stadium.
Click to expand...

Ummm, you do realize that the Carrier Dome is a pretty awesome college basketball facility, no?
 

And p.s. here is a look at Syracuse's old outdoor stadium.

3088777566_70fbe8e641_b.jpg
 


There are plenty of people to hold responsible for the Gophers move to the Metro Dome. As the AD during that period of time, Paul Giel deserves his share of the blame.
 

I don't think any basketball facility that also is a football facility can be considered to be a great.
That's my opinion.
 

That Paul Giel isn't one of the honorary captains (if that's still the case) is an out & out travesty. The U has done a ton of things right with regards to the new stadium, but this is not one of them.

Kudos to Thomas for a loving & well written tribute to his father.
 

Paul Giel was a great football player/athlete. I never got to see him play but his record speaks for itself. On the other hand, being a great athlete does not translate into being a great administrator (or even a great radio announcer). I'm sure if you went back at looked at the original contracts which transferred our home field to the Metrodome, Paul Giel's signature would be quite visible. I'm not saying he is the only person to blame but in my estimation, he's near the top of the list.
 



As a student at the U in the 70's, I remember many days sitting in a half-full stadium. Now, we remember the Stadium fondly but back then I couldn't get my roommates to go to a game. The stands were half full except for games against Ohio State and Michigan. But then we would take our annual whipping and go back to a half full stadium. Back then there was less to do for students. Now, it will be tougher to keep the Stadium full with more activities to pick from. Winning will be even more important now than it was back then. If TCF becomes a stadium that is half full, people will forget about "bringing the games back to campus" and will talk about how we wasted all that money. Hope for success on the field, it will mean alot.
 

UpnorthGo4 said:
There are plenty of people to hold responsible for the Gophers move to the Metro Dome. As the AD during that period of time, Paul Giel deserves his share of the blame.
Click to expand...

I really do not think the move to the dome is the real issue. Memorial stadium was old and needed upgrading. It still was a grand old building that had many great memories. It should never have been torn down. Money should have been allocated to upgrade it while the gophers played at the dome for the eventual return to it. Probably would have saved the tax payers a couple hundred million. I think the nostalgia of the building would have been no less prominent than Williams Arena is today. Sure you give up some things, but you also get other things in return with an old building.
 

jovs said:
I really do not think the move to the dome is the real issue. Memorial stadium was old and needed upgrading. It still was a grand old building that had many great memories. It should never have been torn down. Money should have been allocated to upgrade it while the gophers played at the dome for the eventual return to it. Probably would have saved the tax payers a couple hundred million. I think the nostalgia of the building would have been no less prominent than Williams Arena is today. Sure you give up some things, but you also get other things in return with an old building.
Click to expand...

Wasn't the decision to tear down Memorial made two or three years after the move to the dome? Wasn't it a "trial" at first? Who was the AD in 85 or 86 when that decision was made? Was it still Giel?
 

Great picture of Archbold Stadium at SU

That place reeked of atmosphere.

As for the Carrier Dome, SU will likely hold onto that a lot longer than
people think. Yes, its a Dome for football, but whenh they were competitive
it really was a strong home field advantage. It is a venue for basketball,
but let's not forget that its also the home field for their lacrosse program
as well.

SU is getting their money's worth from the carrier dome.

Pitt? Yes, they will eventually suffer the same fate as the U did.
They will rue the day they moved to a pro stadium.
 



If the gophers had done well in the dome the article would say something like "Giel moved the team to the Dome...and success"
Earlier poster is correct, MN misread NCAA football future with teams flying all over the country, tv contracts and the internet = $$$. in the past, time to move on.
 

Can't prove it, but the move to the Metrodome was more then likely strongly encouraged by politicians looking for more validation of the dome itself and justification for building it, as well as making them look good. Don't think MN politicians were not wanting to continue to make themselves look good, even though their continual cost cutting voter favor moves ended up making the embarrassment.
 

GoGophers2005 said:
We now can see that teams like Miami (playing in Dolphins Stadium), Pitt (playing in Steelers stadium), and Syracuse (playing in a dome) will not be successful down the road due to the sharing of professional off campus stadiums. They will find over time that kids will chose the college experience over playing close to home. They will find that having a place to call home, to protect and defend goes a longggg ways in the success of the program...
Click to expand...


GG2005,

Are you serious? The 'Canes played in the off-campus Orange Bowl for a few decades. Didn't seem to affect their 'success.'

With Howard Schnellenberger, Jimmy Johnson, Butch Davis, et al. leading the charge, the 'Canes became a recruiting, national championship-winning machine over a 25 year period. Not sure how much better they could have been with an on-campus stadium??

{The end of the Larry Coker era and the current Randy Shannon era not withstanding}:eek:

As soon as they move on from Randy Shannon, Miami (Fl.) will be back in the national title hunt annually, regardless of where they play their home games.
 

I'm sorry, but a lot of this is revisonist history...

There was another plan for fixing Memorial, it did not include a dome, or anything like that. Two millon dollars in phase one, and another two in phase two. Paul Giel refused to listen to student groups, former teammates, and many community people. The only plan he backed was a pie in the sky pipedream brought to him by Harvey McKay which was this dome idea. Student groups begged to meet with him, he refused, even after the move. Intrested citizen groups were met with a simular cold shoulder. Paul was a great player, and from all I heard a nice man, and a good AD, but to call him blameless in the move is silly, and frankly has other motives. I expect his son to attempt to whitewash all blame, but for people here to sign off without the facts bothers me.
On the family thing, I expressed an idea about bringing family members and living former greats to be honored, and it came half true. I'm just glad that a real effort to bring our history with us was made and am very happy for the most part at how it turned out. We can not ignore the mistakes of the past, but work our hardest to not repeat them.
 

re3886 said:
There was another plan for fixing Memorial, it did not include a dome, or anything like that. Two millon dollars in phase one, and another two in phase two. Paul Giel refused to listen to student groups, former teammates, and many community people. The only plan he backed was a pie in the sky pipedream brought to him by Harvey McKay which was this dome idea. Student groups begged to meet with him, he refused, even after the move. Intrested citizen groups were met with a simular cold shoulder. Paul was a great player, and from all I heard a nice man, and a good AD, but to call him blameless in the move is silly, and frankly has other motives. I expect his son to attempt to whitewash all blame, but for people here to sign off without the facts bothers me.
On the family thing, I expressed an idea about bringing family members and living former greats to be honored, and it came half true. I'm just glad that a real effort to bring our history with us was made and am very happy for the most part at how it turned out. We can not ignore the mistakes of the past, but work our hardest to not repeat them.
Click to expand...

Your damn right about "revisonist history" and the Strib is engaging in it!

Giel lobbyed at the State Senate to upgrade Memorial Stadium and not just for a Dome. When Minneapolis business leaders, big labor and finally the Administration at the U all decided to go for the HHH Dome, Giel did his job and lobbyed for the Dome. His heart didn't seem in it though.

To blame him now is bull#$it.
 

He was a great athlete, but . . . .

I’m sure that Paul Giel was a great father and any son would want to highlight the positives of his father’s time on this earth. I get that.

Paul Giel though was an unmitigated disaster as an AD.

I don’t think that he worked very hard at the job and most of his hire decisions were pretty crumby. I really don’t remember what level of leadership he had in the move to the dome, but I damn sure remember he wasn’t against it. If he was pro-Memorial stadium, the fight was his to take up. He didn’t.

The record’s of his teams was never good and got worse the longer he hung around.

He had almost two decades to foster a culture of excellence in athletics at a world-class institution with a proud history. He didn’t.

The wreckage of his tenure haunts UofM athletics to this day.
 

minimax said:
I’m sure that Paul Giel was a great father and any son would want to highlight the positives of his father’s time on this earth. I get that.

Paul Giel though was an unmitigated disaster as an AD.

I don’t think that he worked very hard at the job and most of his hire decisions were pretty crumby. I really don’t remember what level of leadership he had in the move to the dome, but I damn sure remember he wasn’t against it. If he was pro-Memorial stadium, the fight was his to take up. He didn’t.

The record’s of his teams was never good and got worse the longer he hung around.

He had almost two decades to foster a culture of excellence in athletics at a world-class institution with a proud history. He didn’t.

The wreckage of his tenure haunts UofM athletics to this day.
Click to expand...

Unbelieveable...

Giel probably traveled this state 50 times over trying to fund raise for the athletic dept. He single handedly revamped the Williams Fund in the 70's and 80's. Austin, Grand Rapids, Blue Earth, Rochester, White Bear, Alexandria, etc.. golf events, speaking... he raised thousands...

coaches Giel hired:
Brooks (3 national championships and an olympic gold medal - legend) Buetow, Woog... ??
Anderson (still coaching - legend)
Robinson (still coaching - national champs - legend)
Musselman/Dutcher/Haskins (you decide? b10 champs - final 4* )
Stoll/Salem/Holtz/Gutekunst (coup to get Holtz and had Bobby Ross to replace him before admin and sid sunk it. gutey got job)
Noyce (multiple big ten champs)
Roethlisburg(multiple b10 champs - legend in college gymnastics)
Dennis Dale (swimming- legend)

No Sports cut under his direction. Few Big Ten schools can say the same during the 70's and 80's.

I could go on, but I am getting tired. He may not have been an elite adminstrator, BUT question his effort, c'mon!!!!!!???????
 

No, he went with that horrible...

Iceland12 said:
Your damn right about "revisonist history" and the Strib is engaging in it!

Giel lobbyed at the State Senate to upgrade Memorial Stadium and not just for a Dome. When Minneapolis business leaders, big labor and finally the Administration at the U all decided to go for the HHH Dome, Giel did his job and lobbyed for the Dome. His heart didn't seem in it though.

To blame him now is bull#$it.
Click to expand...

Dome plan. He refused to listen to anyone else but
Harvey McKay. I was there, where were you? I was in a group of students who wanted to save the stadium, he refused to see us. I was in a group that tried to stop him from starting to tear down the walls, where were you? We were ignored again. You can try and spin this, but he was front and center and joined Sid in forcing us into the dome. He had made up his mind, we were going to play in some sort of Dome. Case closed. Your defense of him is the only bull#$#it here.
 

". I was there, where were you? "

"..When Minneapolis business leaders, big labor and finally the Administration at the U all decided to go for the HHH Dome, Giel did his job and lobbyed for the Dome"

Yeah, I was, at least in the State Senate in the mid-70's when he was lobbying for money to re-model Memorial Stadium. The Senator I worked for worked with Bloomington interests to get a football stadium built next to Metropolitan Stadium and get the money for Memorial Stadium. Geil was on board then. We didn't get the money and the bill was defeated. It came back with a vengance.

It sounds like you were there AFTER the University had made it's it's decision and Giel started lobbying for the Dome. Sorry if your feelings were hurt, you should have seen the Bloomington guys. They ended-up with the Mall of America though, so they probably have let it go by now.

The Strib spin is and was bull#$it because it reads as if Geil was the driving force behind the Dome. He wasn't.

Amy Kloubacher wrote a book about the battle in the 80's "Uncovering the Dome". I think it was originally for her thesis.
 

re3886 said:
Dome plan. He refused to listen to anyone else but
Harvey McKay. I was there, where were you? I was in a group of students who wanted to save the stadium, he refused to see us. I was in a group that tried to stop him from starting to tear down the walls, where were you? We were ignored again. You can try and spin this, but he was front and center and joined Sid in forcing us into the dome. He had made up his mind, we were going to play in some sort of Dome. Case closed. Your defense of him is the only bull#$#it here.
Click to expand...

The walls of Memorial Stadium were not torn down until 1992.
Paul Giel was fired in 1988.

Did your student group have the dollars to renovate Memorial in 1984? I highly doubt it. Did you have a plan to raise the funds? I'd like to hear it. They could use it for John Anderson who desperately needs a new baseball stadium, now.

Kudos for your efforts to save Memorial, but by 1984, the die had been cast.

At least I'm not a wisconsin student who lost baseball and gymnastics because the department couldn't afford it anymore (in the late 80's fyi)

name the last sport minny cut. name it...
 

casual observer said:
Unbelieveable...

Giel probably traveled this state 50 times over trying to fund raise for the athletic dept. He single handedly revamped the Williams Fund in the 70's and 80's. Austin, Grand Rapids, Blue Earth, Rochester, White Bear, Alexandria, etc.. golf events, speaking... he raised thousands...

coaches Giel hired:
Brooks (3 national championships and an olympic gold medal - legend) Buetow, Woog... ??
Anderson (still coaching - legend)
Robinson (still coaching - national champs - legend)
Musselman/Dutcher/Haskins (you decide? b10 champs - final 4* )
Stoll/Salem/Holtz/Gutekunst (coup to get Holtz and had Bobby Ross to replace him before admin and sid sunk it. gutey got job)
Noyce (multiple big ten champs)
Roethlisburg(multiple b10 champs - legend in college gymnastics)
Dennis Dale (swimming- legend)

No Sports cut under his direction. Few Big Ten schools can say the same during the 70's and 80's.

I could go on, but I am getting tired. He may not have been an elite adminstrator, BUT question his effort, c'mon!!!!!!???????
Click to expand...

Over his nearly two decades as AD, I hope he was able to travel the state at least 50 times. Why that’s almost three times a year. Geesh! Sorry, but the athletics’ funds and endowments are barely average for a B10 school. His concentration on getting money from the “swells” did not leave a broadly developed fundraising apparatus that could endure over time.

As to coaching hires, none of his FB coaches had a career winning record at UM, and one of them is a disingenuous sputtering fool. Each of his BB coach hires left the program more of an embarrassment than when he came to it. Mussleman (fights), Dutch – whom I like (crime), Haskins (what 6 years of novated records?).

Amazingly, he was able to get Brooks, Woog and Buetow at the premier hockey school in the country. Really, Mr. Giel can’t take credit for that. I’m sure that you could have gotten those guys to coach at the UofM before breakfast on a bad day.

As to the non-rev sports, Anderson and Dale are awesome indeed, but as the saying goes “the sun even shines on a lazy dog’s ass every once in a while”.

Where it counted, Mr. Giel was pretty pathetic.
 

minimax said:
Over his nearly two decades as AD, I hope he was able to travel the state at least 50 times. Why that’s almost three times a year. Geesh! Sorry, but the athletics’ funds and endowments are barely average for a B10 school. His concentration on getting money from the “swells” did not leave a broadly developed fundraising apparatus that could endure over time.

As to coaching hires, none of his FB coaches had a career winning record at UM, and one of them is a disingenuous sputtering fool. Each of his BB coach hires left the program more of an embarrassment than when he came to it. Mussleman (fights), Dutch – whom I like (crime), Haskins (what 6 years of novated records?).

Amazingly, he was able to get Brooks, Woog and Buetow at the premier hockey school in the country. Really, Mr. Giel can’t take credit for that. I’m sure that you could have gotten those guys to coach at the UofM before breakfast on a bad day.

As to the non-rev sports, Anderson and Dale are awesome indeed, but as the saying goes “the sun even shines on a lazy dog’s ass every once in a while”.

Where it counted, Mr. Giel was pretty pathetic.
Click to expand...


I'm curious of your opinion of:

Rick Bay
McKinley Boston
Mark Dienhart
Tom Moe (interim)
Joel Maturi
What's their record in FB, BB and the sports "that count"???

5 AD's in 20 years...

What does that tell you smart guy?? Pretty unstable environment over at Bierman. Is that all on the AD, or does the President, Board of Regents, administration have a little to do with it?
 


casual observer said:
I'm curious of your opinion of:

Rick Bay
McKinley Boston
Mark Dienhart
Tom Moe (interim)
Joel Maturi
What's their record in FB, BB and the sports "that count"???

5 AD's in 20 years...

What does that tell you smart guy?? Pretty unstable environment over at Bierman. Is that all on the AD, or does the President, Board of Regents, administration have a little to do with it?
Click to expand...

Not really sure that's a group that I personally would like to be considered my peers (too early to tell about Mr. Maturi). But Mr. Giel seems to fit in with them OK. He just happened to engineer an 18 year run for himself to do the same kind of job it took the others two or three years to get called on the carpet for. Results were about the same though.

If you really believe that Division 1 ADs are hired and make high 6 and 7 figure salarys in order to maintain high quality swimming programs, then I have some very unsettling news for you.

I agree with you on the regents though. They have been absolutely feckless, confused and confusing in . . . . . well just about everything that they do. Mr. Giel had quite a bit more time than the others though to help them help UofM athletics. He just did not do it.
 

re3886 said:
There was another plan for fixing Memorial, it did not include a dome, or anything like that. Two millon dollars in phase one, and another two in phase two. Paul Giel refused to listen to student groups, former teammates, and many community people. The only plan he backed was a pie in the sky pipedream brought to him by Harvey McKay which was this dome idea. Student groups begged to meet with him, he refused, even after the move. Intrested citizen groups were met with a simular cold shoulder. Paul was a great player, and from all I heard a nice man, and a good AD, but to call him blameless in the move is silly, and frankly has other motives. I expect his son to attempt to whitewash all blame, but for people here to sign off without the facts bothers me.
On the family thing, I expressed an idea about bringing family members and living former greats to be honored, and it came half true. I'm just glad that a real effort to bring our history with us was made and am very happy for the most part at how it turned out. We can not ignore the mistakes of the past, but work our hardest to not repeat them.
Click to expand...

There was more pressure on Giel than ever was public knowledge. In a strange twist of wrong place at wrong time, I happened to get to hear Mr. Giel talk about what happened on the move to the dome.

To this day it sickens me what was done politically to get him "on board" with the move. All I can say is that he had no choice as it was related to me. If I were him, I would have done the exact same thing as he did and regretted the decision for the rest of my life as he did. He had only one way out to try to keep the team on campus. He would have lost and it would have destroyed him if he'd tried it.
 

minimax said:
Not really sure that's a group that I personally would like to be considered my peers (too early to tell about Mr. Maturi). But Mr. Giel seems to fit in with them OK. He just happened to engineer an 18 year run for himself to do the same kind of job it took the others two or three years to get called on the carpet for. Results were about the same though.

If you really believe that Division 1 ADs are hired and make high 6 and 7 figure salarys in order to maintain high quality swimming programs, then I have some very unsettling news for you.

I agree with you on the regents though. They have been absolutely feckless, confused and confusing in . . . . . well just about everything that they do. Mr. Giel had quite a bit more time than the others though to help them help UofM athletics. He just did not do it.
Click to expand...

Mini - You have every right to dislike Paul Giel. No Rose Bowls, No Nat'l Champs in BB, (You're not giving him any credit for hockey program, so I won't mention). The non revs were kept alive because of him, however. And that does matter to the hundreds of student athletes who go through the program.

He may have called on the "swells" but who would you have called on for donations...? The people Giel got involved in the program donate to this day (Dick Ames, Rod Wallace, Lee Sundet, etc...) No telethons, just personal contact , a thousand banquets and speeches, and asking for help. To call him lazy is absolute bs.

I agree that the FB record under his tenured sucked. But, that's as far as I'll go with you on your assertions. And, fyi Giel's salary was public record back then... not high 6 to 7 figure, believe me.
 


You must log in or register to reply here.



Top Bottom