This board needs to see this Nick Saban Rant



GopherPete

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Well said, I'd do well to keep this in mind when evaluating a team in the future.
 

KoolAid

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Ya know - one of the better aspects of the PJ era is we do tend to come out focused after bad losses. Like 2018 - we had some BAD losses, but also some huge victories. Purdue, Wisconsin and GT were all very enjoyable wins
 

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Gawd, stop it with the “pride in performance” schtick.
 


Some guy

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Wait, so Illinois was trying to win that game too? As was Iowa?
 

Dakota2

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Well said, I'd do well to keep this in mind when evaluating a team in the future.
Yes, well said but a little self-serving in making it only about players. Yes, they work their butts off, don't get paid, are not professionals, and go to school. That's why fans support them so vigorously.

On the other hand, coaches are highly paid professionals from Fleck's $5 million per year to Saban's $11-13 million. Power 5 coordinators like Sanford make a million or so.

Sorry coaches, but if you are listening closely you will notice fan discontent is mostly directed at you, not amateur players. Fleck has made a fair number of game mistakes. Fans see that and know it.

Fleck and Sanford have run an offense that is not balanced enough to stretch defenses or keep them guessing. The Gopher offense is easier to defend against than many good teams. Sanford is slow, reluctant, or simply unable to make in-game adjustments to counter the defense.

For fans to want to see a good team be better and to see good coaches improve to excellent is not surprising.
 

goldengophers

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I'm thankful to live in a market where everyone doesn't live and die with a singular sports entity. There's a built in perspective here that I appreciate more and more each year.
 
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Pompous Elitist

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People will discount it because of the source but could Not agree more with what Sabin says here


Saban is obviously an incredible coach. Ironically re: this video about toxic fans he is extremely critical of his players, self, and staff for poor performances. He is probably one of the most negative, bitchiest people to ever walk the sideline or at least up there with the other greats. Old school.

That said, he is also a coach that adapt to opponents and changing times. He isn’t afraid to pull starters, or change entire philosophies. Alabama has gone from old school “Tressel-ball” ( yes still relatively successful with best players in nation) to a more balanced prolific top 10 pass attack the last 4 years to better compete with other top programs. I suppose fans will argue about the wisdom of that and pine for the old days. I also suspect the fans that ridiculed other fans for asking for more passing are now singing the praises of the philosophy switch.
 

Pompous Elitist

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Saban on his decision to change offensive philosophy/direction



 

goldengophers

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Saban is obviously an incredible coach. Ironically re: this video about toxic fans he is extremely critical of his players, self, and staff for poor performances. He is probably one of the most negative, bitchiest people to ever walk the sideline or at least up there with the other greats. Old school.

That said, he is also a coach that adapt to opponents and changing times. He isn’t afraid to pull starters, or change entire philosophies. Alabama has gone from old school “Tressel-ball” ( yes still relatively successful with best players in nation) to a more balanced prolific top 10 pass attack the last 4 years to better compete with other top programs. I suppose fans will argue about the wisdom of that and pine for the old days. I also suspect the fans that ridiculed other fans for asking for more passing are now singing the praises of the philosophy switch.
Ohio State doesn't even run Tressel ball, it's only a winning formula for teams with other worldly defenses or beating middling to poor B1G West teams.
 



Gophergrandpa

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Wait, so Illinois was trying to win that game too? As was Iowa?
I wish we would have known this at the time those games were played! Sounds like a critical piece of information that could have informed our game plan. So frustrating to learn this stuff after the fact.
 

Bob_Loblaw

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Yes, well said but a little self-serving in making it only about players. Yes, they work their butts off, don't get paid, are not professionals, and go to school. That's why fans support them so vigorously.

On the other hand, coaches are highly paid professionals from Fleck's $5 million per year to Saban's $11-13 million. Power 5 coordinators like Sanford make a million or so.

Sorry coaches, but if you are listening closely you will notice fan discontent is mostly directed at you, not amateur players. Fleck has made a fair number of game mistakes. Fans see that and know it.

Fleck and Sanford have run an offense that is not balanced enough to stretch defenses or keep them guessing. The Gopher offense is easier to defend against than many good teams. Sanford is slow, reluctant, or simply unable to make in-game adjustments to counter the defense.

For fans to want to see a good team be better and to see good coaches improve to excellent is not surprising.
I think you're conflating whatever criticism you have with Fleck with what Saban was getting at. There isn't much discontent directed at Nick Saban at Alabama.

Nick Saban isn't getting a lot of heat from Bama fans, he's worshipped there. When Alabama does poorly, the fan base turns on the players because they know they have the best coach in the country.
 

Bob_Loblaw

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Ohio State doesn't even run Tressel ball, it's only a winning formula for teams with other worldly defenses or beating middling to poor B1G West teams.
I'm not a big fan of Tressel ball but you can beat good teams and win at a high level playing ball control offense. Wisconsin and Iowa have been doing it for years.

There is also no distinction between the B1G West and B1G East. The only distinction is Ohio State and everyone else. The rest of the B!G East vs. B1G West is even (with a slight edge to the B1G West in recent years).

The more talent you have the more silly it is to run the offense. If you have a talent surplus against your opponents, you want there to be as many plays as possible. If you're at a talent deficit, you want to shorten the game. So it actually made less sense for Tressel to play Tressel ball than lesser programs.
 

Dakota2

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I think you're conflating whatever criticism you have with Fleck with what Saban was getting at. There isn't much discontent directed at Nick Saban at Alabama.

Nick Saban isn't getting a lot of heat from Bama fans, he's worshipped there. When Alabama does poorly, the fan base turns on the players because they know they have the best coach in the country.
Don't disagree with your interpretation. Alabama fans probably don't have many gripes about Nick. And yes, I really was talking more about Minnesota. Fleck hasn't whined about some questioning the offense. He just deflects it which means either he is too stubborn to adjust or he has plans he is not ready to share.

I lean toward the latter option because of the fantastic balanced attack he presided over in '19 and the good offense he developed at WM. I think he understands taking Tresseball to extremes not even envisioned by Tress himself is not the pathway to BIG and national prominence.
 

Bob_Loblaw

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Don't disagree with your interpretation. Alabama fans probably don't have many gripes about Nick. And yes, I really was talking more about Minnesota. Fleck hasn't whined about some questioning the offense. He just deflects it which means either he is too stubborn to adjust or he has plans he is not ready to share.

I lean toward the latter option because of the fantastic balanced attack he presided over in '19 and the good offense he developed at WM. I think he understands taking Tresseball to extremes not even envisioned by Tress himself is not the pathway to BIG and national prominence.
Honestly, I think it's that he is doesn't trust his passing game at all. I do think there will be changes this offseason.

In Fleck's defense, there were a couple of plays against Iowa that the right play was called and we just missed it. The missed throw to CAB and the missed throw at the end zone were egregious. We even had Brown-Stephens running wide open on that last drive and we just missed it. If we connect on those plays, we win in Iowa by at least a TD.

That said, if we have a QB who can't make those easy plays, that's on Fleck. He should have recruited the replacement or if it's OC related, he hired the OC.
 

Face The Facts

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Nick is dead on.
We have a toxic wasteland of people quick the criticize the team and the coaches who the players choose to play for.

That's like saying "No, I don't think you're an idiot. It's the guy you trust and believe in who is a fraud. No offense at you for being so dumb to believe in that fraud you work 7 days a week to support!"
 

Some guy

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Honestly, I think it's that he is doesn't trust his passing game at all. I do think there will be changes this offseason.

In Fleck's defense, there were a couple of plays against Iowa that the right play was called and we just missed it. The missed throw to CAB and the missed throw at the end zone were egregious. We even had Brown-Stephens running wide open on that last drive and we just missed it. If we connect on those plays, we win in Iowa by at least a TD.

That said, if we have a QB who can't make those easy plays, that's on Fleck. He should have recruited the replacement or if it's OC related, he hired the OC.
I agree
 

Some guy

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Nick is dead on.
We have a toxic wasteland of people quick the criticize the team and the coaches who the players choose to play for.

That's like saying "No, I don't think you're an idiot. It's the guy you trust and believe in who is a fraud. No offense at you for being so dumb to believe in that fraud you work 7 days a week to support!"
Facts
 

Dakota2

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Honestly, I think it's that he is doesn't trust his passing game at all. I do think there will be changes this offseason.

In Fleck's defense, there were a couple of plays against Iowa that the right play was called and we just missed it. The missed throw to CAB and the missed throw at the end zone were egregious. We even had Brown-Stephens running wide open on that last drive and we just missed it. If we connect on those plays, we win in Iowa by at least a TD.

That said, if we have a QB who can't make those easy plays, that's on Fleck. He should have recruited the replacement or if it's OC related, he hired the OC.
Correct on the three missed throws. I would also opine that on the early first and goal from the four you pound it four downs. With our line that has to be a TD 95% of the time.
 

Pompous Elitist

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Nick is dead on.
We have a toxic wasteland of people quick the criticize the team and the coaches who the players choose to play for.

That's like saying "No, I don't think you're an idiot. It's the guy you trust and believe in who is a fraud. No offense at you for being so dumb to believe in that fraud you work 7 days a week to support!"

Sometimes coaches and players make mistakes that lead to losses. Sometimes coaches and players make mistakes that lead to losses to teams they should beat. Alabama arguably should never lose a game until the CFP given their coaches, players. Minnesota shouldn’t lose to Eden Parairie, were they to play. Fair to get upset if they that goes sideways, I think.

I said it before, but Saban is insane about winning. He’s probably worse and over the top than 99% of the fans. Fair to argue we shouldn’t care about sports or sports teams. It is pretty silly, when we think about it. So we don’t.
 

Dakota2

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Sometimes coaches and players make mistakes that lead to losses. Sometimes coaches and players make mistakes that lead to losses to teams they should beat. Alabama arguably should never lose a game until the CFP given their coaches, players. Minnesota shouldn’t lose to Eden Parairie, were they to play. Fair to get upset if they that goes sideways, I think.

I said it before, but Saban is insane about winning. He’s probably worse and over the top than 99% of the fans. Fair to argue we shouldn’t care about sports or sports teams. It is pretty silly, when we think about it. So we don’t.
We don't care? You can speak for yourself but not others.
 

Pompous Elitist

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We don't care? You can speak for yourself but not others.

Wait, what? I’m pretty sure you misunderstood what I was trying to say. I have failed to communicate, in the same way Sanford has failed to coach Morgan.

This thread is about fans going ballistic about expectations, and I certainly have high expectations. It doesn’t rise to the level of sending private emails or letters to coaches or their employers, or insane level things like death threats and so on, but I have posted on this board from time to time in restrained ways about my significant displeasure with the way the games were conducted earlier this season, and the competence of certain staff members, and strengths and weaknesses of others. This is my agency as a fan and supporter of the team. I care enough… to sully my made-up moniker and persona here by disagreeing with the coaches and strong-minded fans…😄
 





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