Thinking like the coaches

[diefirma]

I’m trying to put myself in the coaches' place. In the past they have had success in year three. Even though Coach Kill said year three would not be THE year with the Gophers - there was still more to do - they are a very competitive bunch and I am sure they expected a lot this year.

Going into next year, they can see they have most of the pieces to compete at a very high level. A good offensive line, good running backs, even if Jones doesn’t come here, a good defense but … they need better QB play.

I can see why the coaches liked Nelson. In the spring practices and the open practices in the fall Nelson was very accurate. He was deadly on any passes under 20 yards ( you’ll have to take my word on this) but that practice performance didn’t really translate to games. My guess is he got too psyched up and made decisions too quickly, put too much on the ball, gripped the ball too tightly and so on.

It seems to me that Leidner got better during the year with his best game being the last one - the bowl game. On the other, hand Nelson did not improve. I think the bowl game was one of Nelson’s worst.

So, you’re the coach. You have just seen ...what? 13 quarters without an offensive touchdown. In the bowl game you watch Leidner throw three touchdown passes. This is year four. No excuses. What do you say to Nelson when you have the end of the season meeting with him? What did you say to him during the season when he had bad games? Coaching is like life only more so. Produce or move on.

These coaches want to win and if a player isn’t cutting it they will make changes until they find the right formula. Let’s hope they find it.

 

[MNVCGUY]

Your overall sentiment might not be far off but there is no way they told Nelson to move on. They were probably honest with him that he was going to have to compete like heck to win the job next year but no staff wants to see their most experienced QB who they have invested multiple years in leave the team, even if they are not certain he is the day one starter next season.

This team would have been in a better overall position with Nelson and Leidner on the roster heading into next season. The coaches may feel confident going with Leidner next year but I don't think anyone can sit here and say that Leidner did enough this season to make you think he is definitely the guy for next year. He showed some flashes (so did Nelson for that matter), but neither guy was consistent enough to feel 100% confident in for 2014. Best case scenario for the team was an open competition between the two with the best guy coming out on top. Now we just need to hope that Leidner takes a big step forward because if he doesn't there is no one behind him with any gameday experience.

 

[diefirma]

You're right - I should have said "step aside" rather than "move on". I do think they told Nelson that Leidner would be #1 going into spring. I'm guessing it would have taken a lot for Nelson to win the job back - he had mostly run out of chances.

 

[Coolew01]

I kind of think they may have told Philip there was going to be open competition and he didn't like the message. I like Nelson and wish him the best.

 

[BreakTheGopherCurse]

You're right - I should have said "step aside" rather than "move on". I do think they told Nelson that Leidner would be #1 going into spring. I'm guessing it would have taken a lot for Nelson to win the job back - he had mostly run out of chances.

Why would they say that? I think it's more likely that they didn't say anything remotely like this. I think they want to go into Spring camp like every Spring camp. They want to see how each player is playing, at every position. Then, they would go into Summer camp the same way. See who is playing the best at each position. Then, a week before the season starts, they would pick the 22 starters who are playing the best ball. Period. If Nelson appeared to be playing significantly better than Leidner in camps and in practices prior to the first game, Nelson would've been the starter. To think any differently is kinda silly. To think that they had already made a decision in January about what would likely occur in August/September is not consistent with how Jerry Kill thinks and speaks. For all they know, Leidner could go into summer camp next year and look like he's taken a step backwards, while Nelson may have looked like he really improved in the off-season. The Gopher coaches don't anoint players "number 1". They take one day at a time, one practice at a time, one week at a time, one game at a time.

This was Philip Nelson's decision. He has been thinking about this decision for a long time. Philip Nelson was no different than many Gopher fans. Many of us believed (whether fallaciously or not) that Limegrover was not a great offensive coordinator until the win streak. Many of us believed that play calling and pass patterns reflected a clear lack of confidence in the passing game. Philip Nelson was frustrated with the play calling. He was frustrated that he was being asked to run the ball and get hit hard a lot. I would suggest that he was frustrated with the break down in pass coverage. He may have grown tired of hearing that the offensive personnel wasn't suitable to a dynamic passing game. He probably felt he wasn't being given enough opportunity to show case his talents. He probably grew frustrated with the dual quarterback philosophy. He probably felt frustrated not knowing whether he would start from week to week or whether he would get yanked mid game for Leidner.

I think Philip has a very high opinion of himself (not in a bad way, but maybe he believes he's better than he really is). I think Philip has dreams of being a prolific passing quarterback who is capable of putting up big numbers. And I think Philip believed Minnesota was not the program where he was going to fulfill his dreams. That's why decided to leave. I just have a hard time believing that Jerry Kill would ever say to Philip "it's time for you to step aside son; we're going in a different direction".

 

[60's Guy]

Coaching edict: don't make a decision until you have to

Why would they say that? I think it's more likely that they didn't say anything remotely like this. I think they want to go into Spring camp like every Spring camp. They want to see how each player is playing, at every position. Then, they would go into Summer camp the same way. See who is playing the best at each position. Then, a week before the season starts, they would pick the 22 starters who are playing the best ball. Period. If Nelson appeared to be playing significantly better than Leidner in camps and in practices prior to the first game, Nelson would've been the starter. To think any differently is kinda silly. To think that they had already made a decision in January about what would likely occur in August/September is not consistent with how Jerry Kill thinks and speaks. For all they know, Leidner could go into summer camp next year and look like he's taken a step backwards, while Nelson may have looked like he really improved in the off-season. The Gopher coaches don't anoint players "number 1". They take one day at a time, one practice at a time, one week at a time, one game at a time.

This was Philip Nelson's decision. He has been thinking about this decision for a long time. Philip Nelson was no different than many Gopher fans. Many of us believed (whether fallaciously or not) that Limegrover was not a great offensive coordinator until the win streak. Many of us believed that play calling and pass patterns reflected a clear lack of confidence in the passing game. Philip Nelson was frustrated with the play calling. He was frustrated that he was being asked to run the ball and get hit hard a lot. I would suggest that he was frustrated with the break down in pass coverage. He may have grown tired of hearing that the offensive personnel wasn't suitable to a dynamic passing game. He probably felt he wasn't being given enough opportunity to show case his talents. He probably grew frustrated with the dual quarterback philosophy. He probably felt frustrated not knowing whether he would start from week to week or whether he would get yanked mid game for Leidner.

I think Philip has a very high opinion of himself (not in a bad way, but maybe he believes he's better than he really is). I think Philip has dreams of being a prolific passing quarterback who is capable of putting up big numbers. And I think Philip believed Minnesota was not the program where he was going to fulfill his dreams. That's why decided to leave. I just have a hard time believing that Jerry Kill would ever say to Philip "it's time for you to step aside son; we're going in a different direction".

There is no benefit to Leidner to be named starter or anyone else. He needed the competition to improve. I'm even more certain Nelson was not told he was the starter, based on his declining performances. So,
I think the curse's scenario is pretty accurate. I do believe dad also influenced Nelson's decision to search
for greener pastures to display his passing ability.

I also agree with the above poster that Nelson looked better in practice than games. I'd up that to say he looked better as a freshman than a sophomore as well, which is how he got the last seven games as a frosh.
He may flourish somewhere else. He may not. Best of luck but I don't agree with the decision to quit.
As stated, he'd been thinking about leaving for a long time...his performances demonstrated something was
not good. So, quite possibly his own attitude created his subpar performance.

 

[nsmike]

Diefirma; Thanks for nicely summing up Nelson's problems as I see them. Nelson's problems are between the ears, he can't execute on gameday, like he does during practice. He does everything you need a quarterback to do, then misses throws that he's near perfect on, in practice. In my opinion, the only overt thing the coaching staff might have done to trigger Nelson's transfer, it would have been to suggest that he work with a sports psychologist.

 

[BreakTheGopherCurse]

Diefirma; Thanks for nicely summing up Nelson's problems as I see them. Nelson's problems are between the ears, he can't execute on gameday, like he does during practice. He does everything you need a quarterback to do, then misses throws that he's near perfect on, in practice. In my opinion, the only overt thing the coaching staff might have done to trigger Nelson's transfer, it would have been to suggest that he work with a sports psychologist.

....or Jerry Kill may have asked him a few questions: "Philip, how do you think things are going....Philip, how badly do you want this.....Philip, do you like what we're asking you to do.....Philip, is your heart 100% in this with us....Philip, are you having fun being the quarterback of this team...." Kill may have sensed something in Nelson and pulled it out of him that he, Philip, just wasn't having fun. Kill may have said that "if you're not having fun, you should re-evaluate things. If you're not happy, you owe it to yourself to find a way to be happy. Things are only going to get more challenging for you as new qb's compete with you for the starting job." These are the things I would have asked and told Philip in the event I noticed he was not fully committed or pouting. Philip also may have shared some of his frustrations with friends, teammates or his position coach and those feelings may have eventually made their back way to Coach Kill. All speculation of course, but this is how these issues usually come to the forefront in other situations, such as the working world.

 

[Spoofin]

I do believe dad also influenced Nelson's decision

I won't call it a source to avoid disputes, but someone I trust with knowledge of the situation has indicated to me that this was a HUGE factor in Nelson's decision. I hope it works out for Philip. He is a good person.

 

[highwayman]

I do believe dad also influenced Nelson's decision to search for greener pastures to display his passing ability.

I won't call it a source to avoid disputes, but someone I trust with knowledge of the situation has indicated to me that this was a HUGE factor in Nelson's decision. I hope it works out for Philip. He is a good person.

And, like most dads, he thinks his son is Payton Manning--when he's more than likely Christian Ponder. I liked Philip, I thought he would get better, and he didn't. I thought the coaches were using too much hyperbole with Leidner, but guess what--he got better. In the end, Leidner's only Achilles heel seems to be that he holds the ball too long. Nelson was inaccurate, made poor decisions on who to throw to, and performed poorly on the read option. Leidner got better, Nelson did not.

 

[CWCWCW]

I won't call it a source to avoid disputes, but someone I trust with knowledge of the situation has indicated to me that this was a HUGE factor in Nelson's decision. I hope it works out for Philip. He is a good person.

I'm sure it's a factor. Most parents still have a big influence on their kids who are still in college.

I was a Phillip Nelson fan. I was rooting for him and shocked that he transferred. I hope he does well at his new school.

Phillip will go down as the best hair in Golden Gopher history, but I hear the new juco linebacker is pressing hard.

 

[ruppertflywheel]

One defining.play that probably caused the second shoe to drop. Nelsons last pass to Donovan Jones that he air mailed 15 yards over his head. A simple sideline pass from the middle of the field to a wide open receiver. If I'm Kill,
Clayse, and QB. Coach " Z" you have to be thinking. " Houston, we've a problem "

 

[Governor Sibley]

Nelson has talent.

Limegrower couldn't manage and cultivate it.

Limegrower sucks.

 

[Mulligan]

And, like most dads, he thinks his son is Payton Manning--when he's more than likely Christian Ponder. I liked Philip, I thought he would get better, and he didn't. I thought the coaches were using too much hyperbole with Leidner, but guess what--he got better. In the end, Leidner's only Achilles heel seems to be that he holds the ball too long. Nelson was inaccurate, made poor decisions on who to throw to, and performed poorly on the read option. Leidner got better, Nelson did not.

Um ... I get just as upset when he doesn't hold onto it as he's running.

 

[corcoran1]

I believe the bowl game changed a lot. We did not throw much early and when we did, Nelson did not throw well. When we reached the point in the game where we had to throw (late third quarter), Leidner had replaced Nelson and played pretty well.
So our passing QB is on the bench without ever having much of a chance to throw, and our running QB is out there leading a comeback, mostly by passing.
If you are Nelson this does not look like a system that is going to help you grow as a passing QB.
I think the transfer was probably inevitable, and after two years of eligibility gone it was probably now or never..

 

[50PoundHead]

I'm not reading too much into things. I think it just became apparent to Nelson that the fully operational Kill/Limegrover offense features a ton of designed inside running for the QB that Nelson didn't think fit his style/interest. If Nelson envisions himself as a passer, this was never the offense for him. He probably has dreams of at least getting a shot at the pro level and this offense is hardly a training ground for that goal (at least in Nelson's eyes). Of course, Chandler Harnish has been on the Colts' practice squad for a couple of seasons, so maybe I'm reading too much into that. Nelson reminds me of Harnish, which made me think could work well.

I'm not going to rag on Limegrover, but his passing game just doesn't look like much. Not much in terms of design and inventiveness.

 

[short ornery norwegian]

Question I can't answer:

Is Limegrover calling plays because that's his system, OR
iis he calling plays because he thinks that's what fits the current personnel?

I remember the Northern Illinois team that beat the Gophers looked a lot more explosive. Same coaching staff - different players.

For all we know, Limegrover is trying to protect his players and not ask more of them than they're capable of.

Give him a better QB and better WR's, and we might see a very different looking offense.

 

[killme]

Nelson has talent.

Limegrower couldn't manage and cultivate it.

Limegrower sucks.

Any chance of you transferring?

 

[nsmike]

Question I can't answer:

Is Limegrover calling plays because that's his system, OR
iis he calling plays because he thinks that's what fits the current personnel?

I remember the Northern Illinois team that beat the Gophers looked a lot more explosive. Same coaching staff - different players.

For all we know, Limegrover is trying to protect his players and not ask more of them than they're capable of.

Give him a better QB and better WR's, and we might see a very different looking offense.

Dead on! I think it's the latter.

 

[Ogee Ogilthorpe]

Nelson has talent.

Limegrower couldn't manage and cultivate it.

Limegrower sucks.

I'm sensing a recurring theme here?...

This is what I believe; some guys are gamers, some are not. Perhaps Phillip is a Sun-Fri All-American. I have no clue if Leidner is a gamer or not yet. I guess we'll find out soon enough.

Question I can't answer:

Is Limegrover calling plays because that's his system, OR
iis he calling plays because he thinks that's what fits the current personnel?

I remember the Northern Illinois team that beat the Gophers looked a lot more explosive. Same coaching staff - different players.

For all we know, Limegrover is trying to protect his players and not ask more of them than they're capable of.

Give him a better QB and better WR's, and we might see a very different looking offense.

I think this is precisely correct. Coaches see these guys every day in practice, for a couple of years now. I believe the play-calling the last few years was to minimize risk, plain and simple. Don't put the defense in tough spots, try to stay ahead of the chains, play field position, make enough plays to win. I don't believe, based on the previous performance of offenses under this same coaching staff, that this is the way they want to run things forever. I don't believe that for a minute, because history says otherwise.

 

[Spoofin]

Question I can't answer:

Is Limegrover calling plays because that's his system, OR
iis he calling plays because he thinks that's what fits the current personnel?

I remember the Northern Illinois team that beat the Gophers looked a lot more explosive. Same coaching staff - different players.

For all we know, Limegrover is trying to protect his players and not ask more of them than they're capable of.

Give him a better QB and better WR's, and we might see a very different looking offense.

Spot on.

 

[gopherveteran]

The future looks positive for the Gophers.

Leidner put 17 points on the board in half against Syracuse. He also put the
potential winning pass on the receiver’s hands with less than 30 seconds remaining.

He throws a good ball and can run. He is well liked by his teammates and coaches. Many college teams would like to have a 6’4”, 235lb sophomore quarterback.

A change had to be made after nearly 4 games without an offensive touchdown.

 

[station19]

Question I can't answer:

Is Limegrover calling plays because that's his system, OR
iis he calling plays because he thinks that's what fits the current personnel?

I remember the Northern Illinois team that beat the Gophers looked a lot more explosive. Same coaching staff - different players.

For all we know, Limegrover is trying to protect his players and not ask more of them than they're capable of.

Give him a better QB and better WR's, and we might see a very different looking offense.

Dead on! I think it's the latter.

Spot on.

Add me to the list.

 

[Killjoy]

Any chance of you transferring?

LOL - Thanks for the laugh killme. Your comment pretty much capture my feeling also. But your use of humor was perfect. The word perfect is almost always an over exaggeration but in this case it was not.

 

[Lakeville Goldy]

I'm not reading too much into things. I think it just became apparent to Nelson that the fully operational Kill/Limegrover offense features a ton of designed inside running for the QB that Nelson didn't think fit his style/interest. If Nelson envisions himself as a passer, this was never the offense for him. He probably has dreams of at least getting a shot at the pro level and this offense is hardly a training ground for that goal (at least in Nelson's eyes). Of course, Chandler Harnish has been on the Colts' practice squad for a couple of seasons, so maybe I'm reading too much into that. Nelson reminds me of Harnish, which made me think could work well.

I'm not going to rag on Limegrover, but his passing game just doesn't look like much. Not much in terms of design and inventiveness.

When the QB can't hit a wide open receiver 10 yards away how inventive can you get? And when the QB actually makes the pass and the WR drops it...

I think the offense is fine. When the players execute they move the ball, even against stout defenses.

 

[50PoundHead]

Question I can't answer:

Is Limegrover calling plays because that's his system, OR
iis he calling plays because he thinks that's what fits the current personnel?

I remember the Northern Illinois team that beat the Gophers looked a lot more explosive. Same coaching staff - different players.

For all we know, Limegrover is trying to protect his players and not ask more of them than they're capable of.

Give him a better QB and better WR's, and we might see a very different looking offense.

All good points, but our offense is almost a carbon copy of what they run at NIU and I don't know if it's scheme or athletes (or lack thereof) that is causing our problems in the passing game. Just seems to be a very vanilla passing game. Of course, when you're intent on rushing the football (and I like that), you're going to see more tight formations.

 

[MNVCGUY]

Question I can't answer:

Is Limegrover calling plays because that's his system, OR
iis he calling plays because he thinks that's what fits the current personnel?

I remember the Northern Illinois team that beat the Gophers looked a lot more explosive. Same coaching staff - different players.

For all we know, Limegrover is trying to protect his players and not ask more of them than they're capable of.

Give him a better QB and better WR's, and we might see a very different looking offense.

Common sense would say that with a better QB and WR the offense is going to look better, that just makes sense. One thing I would be careful of is the assumption that what worked for NIU in the MAC is going to work for Minnesota in the Big Ten. Defenses in the Big Ten in general are going to be significantly bigger, faster, and stronger then defenses in the MAC so an offense that works great in that conference may not work nearly as well at the next level up.

 

[highwayman]

I'm sensing a recurring theme here?...

This is what I believe; some guys are gamers, some are not. Perhaps Phillip is a Sun-Fri All-American. I have no clue if Leidner is a gamer or not yet. I guess we'll find out soon enough.



I think this is precisely correct. Coaches see these guys every day in practice, for a couple of years now. I believe the play-calling the last few years was to minimize risk, plain and simple. Don't put the defense in tough spots, try to stay ahead of the chains, play field position, make enough plays to win. I don't believe, based on the previous performance of offenses under this same coaching staff, that this is the way they want to run things forever. I don't believe that for a minute, because history says otherwise.

Stud has evolved into our own ???????????

You are absolutely correct about the playcalling. If it doesn't work in practice, it doesn't work in a game.

 

[Governor Sibley]

I just hate Limegrower. I have since day one.

He is so terrified of harming the fragile confidence of his players that it backfires. They sense that he doesn't trust them. Nelson is a case in point.

 

[Thorviking]

Common sense would say that with a better QB and WR the offense is going to look better, that just makes sense. One thing I would be careful of is the assumption that what worked for NIU in the MAC is going to work for Minnesota in the Big Ten. Defenses in the Big Ten in general are going to be significantly bigger, faster, and stronger then defenses in the MAC so an offense that works great in that conference may not work nearly as well at the next level up.

While true that defensive players in the Big Ten are bigger, faster and stronger so are the offensive players. It's not a question of if this offense will work or not, it's a question of can they get the players in here to run it as effectively against an increased level of competition.