The U on Pharrel Payne: He’s just getting started. 📈

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I really think Payne is going to surprise an awful lot of people next year. His improvement over the last part of the season was amazing. He is strong, very quick, and a relentless finisher and rebounder. He is the rare player who has talent and seems determined to use all of it. Don’t be surprised if he all of a sudden can shoot the short jumper also. If the guards and forwards get him the ball in the paint, he will take care of the rest. Whether Evans left for the money, or the climate is a moot point. He wasn’t going to play in front of Payne.
 


I know I'm viewed as a negative guy when it.comes to this squad. But I'll give credit where it's due. He started to come along and I DO expect a difference in him this year.. but I still expect many rough outings. But I can't wait to see what he has in store for us...


Fuck the grammar/punctuation police....
 



He is a Beast!!! I’m from Cottage Grove: met, talked, shook hands, since 9th Gr. etc. Great Family!! Raised Super. Almost naive, quiet. Very late (11th Gr.) AAU player. VERY Long Arms, doesn’t care (very non-selfish) about scoring, a fault that better be corrected by Ben J!!. ‘Not Selfish’ >>> Section HS Finals (scored like ‘only’ 14 vs EView). UMN Really good get!!!!!! **NOT a transfer NIL candidate.**
 

Excited for what he can bring. Needs to keep working on footwork and to develop a short range jumper.
 

Oly O Hooper said:
He is a Beast!!! I’m from Cottage Grove: met, talked, shook hands, since 9th Gr. etc. Great Family!! Raised Super. Almost naive, quiet. Very late (11th Gr.) AAU player. VERY Long Arms, doesn’t care (very non-selfish) about scoring, a fault that better be corrected by Ben J!!. ‘Not Selfish’ >>> Section HS Finals (scored like ‘only’ 14 vs EView). UMN Really good get!!!!!! **NOT a transfer NIL candidate.**
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Very long arms and strong hands. Some of his one handed rebounds away from his body were at 18? Yrs old already impressive. Already has improved on not bringing the ball down when rebounding and catching, and his foot work is better than advertised. But it’s his tenacity, it’s off the charts.
 

This guy has a chance to be a transformative player for the Gophers. He came, he stayed, he lead by example and improvement and others followed. He already creates a certain buzz when he makes plays.
 



Oly O Hooper said:
He is a Beast!!! I’m from Cottage Grove: met, talked, shook hands, since 9th Gr. etc. Great Family!! Raised Super. Almost naive, quiet. Very late (11th Gr.) AAU player. VERY Long Arms, doesn’t care (very non-selfish) about scoring, a fault that better be corrected by Ben J!!. ‘Not Selfish’ >>> Section HS Finals (scored like ‘only’ 14 vs EView). UMN Really good get!!!!!! **NOT a transfer NIL candidate.**
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Because he isn’t a transfer NIL threat doesn’t mean Coyle shouldn’t find it for him and Garcia.
 



This kid is elite, the only bright spot on this team. Can't overstate his potential, better frame that Oturo even though Oturo came in more skilled. His play next year will tell me everything I need to know about Johnson's ability to coach. We already know he can't recruit.
 



kix4kix said:
This kid is elite, the only bright spot on this team. Can't overstate his potential, better frame that Oturo even though Oturo came in more skilled. His play next year will tell me everything I need to know about Johnson's ability to coach. We already know he can't recruit.
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If he can't recruit, how did Payne end up at the U?

If he can't recruit, how did we beat out Michigan State and Illinois for a Top 80 player (Christie) this year?
 

WriterGoph said:
If he can't recruit, how did Payne end up at the U?

If he can't recruit, how did we beat out Michigan State and Illinois for a Top 80 player (Christie) this year?
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The first class at which CBJ had a full run netted Payne, Carrington (MN Mr. B’ball), Betts (top 90 last year) and Joseph (a surprisingly bright spot last season). The evidence suggests he can recruit high schoolers. His first portal class was weak; his second can easily be better (Mitchell was a top 10 portal PG when recruited). What Johnson needs to do for sustained improvement is nail both high schools and portal, develop the high-potential recruits he does get, and retain most of them over time. Which is why it’s ludicrous for people to presume to judge his performance after two seasons. I don’t think Mark Coyle will.
 

Captain Willard said:
The first class at which CBJ had a full run netted Payne, Carrington (MN Mr. B’ball), Betts (top 90 last year) and Joseph (a surprisingly bright spot last season). The evidence suggests he can recruit high schoolers. His first portal class was weak; his second can easily be better (Mitchell was a top 10 portal PG when recruited). What Johnson needs to do for sustained improvement is nail both high schools and portal, develop the high-potential recruits he does get, and retain most of them over time. Which is why it’s ludicrous for people to presume to judge his performance after two seasons. I don’t think Mark Coyle will.
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Thanks Ben!

Any update on Howard?
 



kix4kix said:
This kid is elite, the only bright spot on this team. Can't overstate his potential, better frame that Oturo even though Oturo came in more skilled. His play next year will tell me everything I need to know about Johnson's ability to coach. We already know he can't recruit.
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I'm very excited about his potential and his development for this coming year. Just had to avoid silly fouls so he can stay on the floor. Him and Dawson should be a good big to big combo.
 

WriterGoph said:
If he can't recruit, how did Payne end up at the U?

If he can't recruit, how did we beat out Michigan State and Illinois for a Top 80 player (Christie) this year?
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Apparently you haven't watched many games the last two years
 
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GopherWeatherGuy said:
Apparently you haven't watched many games the last two years
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I list two easily apparent recruiting wins under Ben the past two years and you come in talking about games?

Maybe take it to the coaching debate? Unless you want to out your agenda here and now and try and claim that Payne doesn't appear to be a good young player with tons of potential and that beating MSU and Illinois for players isn't noteworthy?

Someone said Ben is bad at recruiting. My examples still stand.
 

kix4kix said:
This kid is elite, the only bright spot on this team. Can't overstate his potential, better frame that Oturo even though Oturo came in more skilled. His play next year will tell me everything I need to know about Johnson's ability to coach. We already know he can't recruit.
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To keep this thread on Payne, I'll agree with you on this- Payne's development will tell you a lot about this staff's coaching. And I'd be pretty shocked if Payne doesn't show he can hit a short jumper, drive to the hoop more often, improve his variety of moves underneath, and to better stay out of foul trouble.

It's pretty rare to get a kid with his combination of strength, quickness, great hands and feet, and a motor that's off the charts. This kid will work his butt of this summer, and he'll come back better, Through all the agony of watching this team last year, some of the best moments were Payne making unreal spin moves, blocking shots, dishing passes to teammates, and catching any pass that came anywhere close to him.

He's got a lot to work on-but when you're still fairly new to the sport, you have that kind of talent, and you're an extremely hard worker, I like his chances to be much better this year.
 

WriterGoph said:
I list two easily apparent recruiting wins under Ben the past two years and you come in talking about games?

Maybe take it to the coaching debate? Unless you want to out your agenda here and now and try and claim that Payne doesn't appear to be a good young player with tons of potential and that beating MSU and Illinois for players isn't noteworthy?

Someone said Ben is bad at recruiting. My examples still stand.
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So games don't matter now? And what agenda? The record speaks for itself.

I like Payne, but he's one dimensional, and landing another player who hasn't even stepped on campus yet, doesn't mean you're a good recruiter. The rest of the roster is proof of that.

Ben is bad at recruiting, otherwise we wouldn't continue to trot out historically bad rosters.
 

GopherWeatherGuy said:
So games don't matter now? And what agenda? The record speaks for itself.

I like Payne, but he's one dimensional, and landing another player who hasn't even stepped on campus yet, doesn't mean you're a good recruiter. The rest of the roster is proof of that.

Ben is bad at recruiting, otherwise we wouldn't continue to trot out historically bad rosters.
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Okay, so you're on record that beating out Tom Izzo for a recruit is "bad". Got it.
 

WriterGoph said:
Okay, so you're on record that beating out Tom Izzo for a recruit is "bad". Got it.
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Izzo will have the most loaded roster in the B1G next season, and one of the best in the country. They offered Cam early because of Max, but besides an unofficial in 2021, there was very little steam there later in the recruitment.

Izzo recruited over Cam just like Iowa St recruited over Asuma.
 

GopherWeatherGuy said:
Izzo will have the most loaded roster in the B1G next season, and one of the best in the country. They offered Cam early because of Max, but besides an unofficial in 2021, there was very little steam there later in the recruitment.

Izzo recruited over Cam just like Iowa St recruited over Asuma.
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OMG. You really had to explain a lot of background there to try and take credit from Ben. It's hard for you to give any credit at all, isn't it? Sorry for your plight.

The whole point of this exercise is that there are middle grounds in life. Things are not just "bad" or "good" - unless you have an agenda. Calling Ben a "bad" recruiter is disingenuous. I'm not saying he has proven to be great, but he is definitely not bad at recruiting HS kids.
 

Formerswish said:
To keep this thread on Payne, I'll agree with you on this- Payne's development will tell you a lot about this staff's coaching. And I'd be pretty shocked if Payne doesn't show he can hit a short jumper, drive to the hoop more often, improve his variety of moves underneath, and to better stay out of foul trouble.

It's pretty rare to get a kid with his combination of strength, quickness, great hands and feet, and a motor that's off the charts. This kid will work his butt of this summer, and he'll come back better, Through all the agony of watching this team last year, some of the best moments were Payne making unreal spin moves, blocking shots, dishing passes to teammates, and catching any pass that came anywhere close to him.

He's got a lot to work on-but when you're still fairly new to the sport, you have that kind of talent, and you're an extremely hard worker, I like his chances to be much better this year.
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I think that's a bit of wanting people to bet on Payne rather than CBJ.

Payne is a beast and Johnson deserves credit for getting him here and some credit for developing him, but Payne has such a unique physical profile that might or might not develop regardless of the coach.

When judging a staff, you need to look at it in the totality. Watch the development of Christie, Carrington, Payne, Thompson, Battle, etc. and looking at that in totality will tell you how are staff can develop talent. You don't just find the most talented kid and make him the litmus test.
 

WriterGoph said:
OMG. You really had to explain a lot of background there to try and take credit from Ben. It's hard for you to give any credit at all, isn't it? Sorry for your plight.

The whole point of this exercise is that there are middle grounds in life. Things are not just "bad" or "good" - unless you have an agenda. Calling Ben a "bad" recruiter is disingenuous. I'm not saying he has proven to be great, but he is definitely not bad at recruiting HS kids.
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It's not disingenuous, he's a bad recruiter. It's unlikely Cam still had a committable offer from Izzo and you're acting like Ben went toe to toe and beat him out.

You want to point to 2 players then disregard all of the other schools including several lesser schools that have beaten Ben out for players. That's disingenuous.
 

GopherWeatherGuy said:
It's not disingenuous, he's a bad recruiter. It's unlikely Cam still had a committable offer from Izzo and you're acting like Ben went toe to toe and beat him out.

You want to point to 2 players then disregard all of the other schools including several lesser schools that have beaten Ben out for players. That's disingenuous.
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So Cam Christie (the #77 player in America) didn't have any other quality offers? I'll hang up and listen.
 

WriterGoph said:
So Cam Christie (the #77 player in America) didn't have any other quality offers? I'll hang up and listen.
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You're again trying to put words in my mouth that I didn't say. Yeah he had other good offers, but you specifically mentioned Izzo. Izzo took a better guard from the same state.

Ben landing 2 players doesn't make him a good recruiter. No one with a B1G winning percentage of .154 through 2 seasons is a good recruiter.
 

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