The Thing I Admire Most About Fleck

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RememberMurray

RememberMurray

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Don't get me wrong; P.J. Fleck has many admirable qualities. I am not trivializing any of them. For example, his charity work is beyond exemplary.

But as a fan of this Gopher football program, the thing I admire most, and the thing that in my mind really sets him apart from past coaches, is his embrace of the Minnesota football program's golden (if long-ago) past.

As a Gopher fan, I get so tired of hearing constant carping about "50 years of terrible teams". It's self-defeating and counter-productive.

Fleck, unlike some other coaches, has not attempted to dial back expectations in order to protect himself from potential failure; on the contrary, he's made it clear that he believes Gopher fans need to raise their own expectations!

He talks about Minnesota being a sleeping giant, and frequently mentions our past championships.

I find that to be a revelation. I find it more than refreshing. And it takes guts, especially after Tim Brewster promised a Rose Bowl and then promptly flopped, and has been jeered and ridiculed since.

My hat's off to you, Coach Fleck. You have courage. Keep the faith; you've got something special going here.
 

RememberMurray said:
Don't get me wrong; P.J. Fleck has many admirable qualities. I am not trivializing any of them. For example, his charity work is beyond exemplary.

But as a fan of this Gopher football program, the thing I admire most, and the thing that in my mind really sets him apart from past coaches, is his embrace of the Minnesota football program's golden (if long-ago) past.

As a Gopher fan, I get so tired of hearing constant carping about "50 years of terrible teams". It's self-defeating and counter-productive.

Fleck, unlike some other coaches, has not attempted to dial back expectations in order to protect himself from potential failure; on the contrary, he's made it clear that he believes Gopher fans need to raise their own expectations!

He talks about Minnesota being a sleeping giant, and frequently mentions our past championships.

I find that to be a revelation. I find it more than refreshing. And it takes guts, especially after Tim Brewster promised a Rose Bowl and then promptly flopped, and has been jeered and ridiculed since.

My hat's off to you, Coach Fleck. You have courage. Keep the faith; you've got something special going here.
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PJ has done great.
He absolutely dialed back expectations his first 2 years here. How soon we forget.
 

Over the past few weeks, I’ve heard him mention several times that Minnesota used to be a blue blood, that he wants to restore that status, and that if we want to be a blue blood again, we need to beat blue blood teams. That’s an interesting picture to paint. It doesn’t sound like someone likely to shop for a new job in the near future....assuming he gets what he wants/needs here.
 

Spoofin said:
PJ has done great.
He absolutely dialed back expectations his first 2 years here. How soon we forget.
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Oh, you mean like this?

“By ’19, I will be able to fix the issues, but we will be young,” Fleck said Monday. “We will be older with some youth, developing depth, creating depth. Then when you hit ’20, that’s when you see a spike in, ‘Holy cow, they’re good. They’re deep, and they are becoming experienced. Wow.’

Seems to me, he was telling us exactly what would happen. But don't let that stop you from trying to convince people that you weren't a jerk in your noble Crusade against him. Don't worry, I won't forget the petty bullshit and the cheapshots.
 

Mulligan said:
Oh, you mean like this?

“By ’19, I will be able to fix the issues, but we will be young,” Fleck said Monday. “We will be older with some youth, developing depth, creating depth. Then when you hit ’20, that’s when you see a spike in, ‘Holy cow, they’re good. They’re deep, and they are becoming experienced. Wow.’

Seems to me, he was telling us exactly what would happen. But don't let that stop you from trying to convince people that you weren't a jerk in your noble Crusade against him. Don't worry, I won't forget the petty bullshit and the cheapshots.
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Spoofin is just trying to get people going. You took the bait.

Lots of posters find it annoying. Personally, I think Its hilarious ??
 


Mulligan said:
Oh, you mean like this?

“By ’19, I will be able to fix the issues, but we will be young,” Fleck said Monday. “We will be older with some youth, developing depth, creating depth. Then when you hit ’20, that’s when you see a spike in, ‘Holy cow, they’re good. They’re deep, and they are becoming experienced. Wow.’

Seems to me, he was telling us exactly what would happen. But don't let that stop you from trying to convince people that you weren't a jerk in your noble Crusade against him. Don't worry, I won't forget the petty bullshit and the cheapshots.
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New Year - same obsession I see.

FTR, you are saying he didn’t dial back expectations his first 2 years?
 






Spoofin said:
PJ has done great.
He absolutely dialed back expectations his first 2 years here. How soon we forget.
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Yeah, so I get it that I'm not really tuned in to all the popular 'trolling' and 'stirring the pot' stuff, and such like. Admittedly, the kids seem to really like it these days, and God know KFAN has found an audience that eats it up, so you do see a lot of it now.

Because I don't quite get it, I really don't know if you're serious with your post or if you're just doing... ummm... those things.

But just for fun I'll assume you are not being facetious, and so here goes with my (serious) reply to your post:

Fleck mentioned Minnesota as a sleeping giant in his introductory press conference. Day One. So much for "dialing back expectations."

As far as goals and expectations for the first two years of his tenure here are concerned, Fleck would have had to be delusional — or think Gopher fans were delusional — to promise a championship in the first two years. First... Two... Years, Spoof. Of course he made it clear it would take time to get there. Of course!

C'mon, man.

It seems pretty obvious (to some of us, at least) what his longer-term goals were. Longer-term, as in, y'know... maybe... three years.

They included (as he has repeatedly stated) a return to championship status. Gold Glory. National prominence.

We were within a whisker of that this season... yes, in Year Three. 11-2. Rare air. Circa A.D. 1903-level stuff. Amazing.

Nevertheless, hey, man... you just keep doing your thing, Spoof. I'll freely admit I don't grasp it, but... whatever turns your crank, as we used to say.
 

Marooned said:
sounds to me he set appropriate expectations. Do you disagree?
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PitinoFan said:
He was just letting people know they probably weren’t going to be very good right out of the gate. He wasn’t wrong.
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Both of your posts may very well be true - but the OPs claim was still wrong.

“Fleck, unlike some other coaches, has notattempted to dial back expectations in order to protect himself from potential failure; on the contrary, he's made it clear that he believes Gopher fans need to raise their own expectations!”
 

I Fleck absolute, positively, doesn't care what people think, and moves forward resolutely. So un-Minnesotan. So absolute, positively needed to not only change U f M culture, but change Minnesota culture. I LOVE IT!!!
 

RememberMurray said:
Yeah, so I get it that I'm not really tuned in to all the popular 'trolling' and 'stirring the pot' stuff, and such like. Admittedly, the kids seem to really like it these days, and God know KFAN has found an audience that eats it up, so you do see a lot of it now.

Because I don't quite get it, I really don't know if you're serious with your post or if you're just doing... ummm... those things.

But just for fun I'll assume you are not being facetious, and so here goes with my (serious) reply to your post:

Fleck mentioned Minnesota as a sleeping giant in his introductory press conference. Day One. So much for "dialing back expectations."

As far as goals and expectations for the first two years of his tenure here are concerned, Fleck would have had to be delusional — or think Gopher fans were delusional — to promise a championship in the first two years. First... Two... Years, Spoof. Of course he made it clear it would take time to get there. Of course!

C'mon, man.

It seems pretty obvious (to some of us, at least) what his longer-term goals were. Longer-term, as in, y'know... maybe... three years.

They included (as he has repeatedly stated) a return to championship status. Gold Glory. National prominence.

We were within a whisker that this season... yes, in Year Three. 11-2. Rare air. Circa A.D. 1903-level stuff.

Nevertheless, hey, man... you just keep doing your thing, Spoof. I'll freely admit I don't grasp it, but... whatever turns your crank, as we used to say.
Click to expand...

Selective memory here. Of course he wasn’t claiming to win a title in year 1 and 2, but he often made it sound like our players couldn’t tie their own shoes. He dialed back expectations those first 2 years. That may very well not be a big deal to you, but your statement that he didn’t do it was false.

Pro-Tip: not everyone who disagrees with or corrects you is “trolling” or “doing their thing”. Sometimes they might just appreciate accuracy.
 



Spoofin said:
Both of your posts may very well be true - but the OPs claim was still wrong.

“Fleck, unlike some other coaches, has notattempted to dial back expectations in order to protect himself from potential failure; on the contrary, he's made it clear that he believes Gopher fans need to raise their own expectations!”
Click to expand...

Short term expectations: Dialed back for good reason, IMO.

Long term expectations: Lofty to the point where people were laughing at him, and comparing him to Brewster.
 

I think it was oft debated on here during PJs first two years about him dialing back expectations (how young the team was, etc.). There were a lot of comparisons between how he did it and how Kill did it and then I think we all (or most) agreed that all coaches do it in their own way.
I think Fleck this year really changed his tone and definitely set high expectations for the team and fans as HWM and RM are stating. It was a breath of fresh air to hear PJ talk that way (but he definitely dialed back expectations the first 2 years).
 

Spoofin said:
Selective memory here. Of course he wasn’t claiming to win a title in year 1 and 2, but he often made it sound like our players couldn’t tie their own shoes. He dialed back expectations those first 2 years. That may very well not be a big deal to you, but your statement that he didn’t do it was false.

Pro-Tip: not everyone who disagrees with or corrects you is “trolling” or “doing their thing”. Sometimes they might just appreciate accuracy.
Click to expand...

Yes, then. You are all about accuracy, then. Straight up. You're not actually all about 'getting people going', as someone said?

You're sort of... the "Accuracy Watchdog, and "Correction Officer" of GopherHole?
 

RememberMurray said:
Yes, then. You are all about accuracy, then. Straight up. You're not actually all about 'getting people going', as someone said?

You're kind of the "Accuracy Watchdog" and "Correction Officer" of GopherHole?
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Who’s stirring the pot now?
You made a false statement. I corrected it. Really no more complicated than that.
 

RememberMurray said:
Yes, then. You are all about accuracy, then. Straight up. You're not actually all about 'getting people going', as someone said?

You're kind of the "Accuracy Watchdog" and "Correction Officer" of GopherHole?
Click to expand...

Multi tasking... I think Spoofin has the capacity to be working two keyboards, one with each hand... simultaneously.
 

Spoofin said:
Who’s stirring the pot now?
You made a false statement. I corrected it. Really no more complicated than that.
Click to expand...

Oh, I think we're actually dealing with a very complex situation here.
 

Spoofin said:
Selective memory here. Of course he wasn’t claiming to win a title in year 1 and 2, but he often made it sound like our players couldn’t tie their own shoes. He dialed back expectations those first 2 years. That may very well not be a big deal to you, but your statement that he didn’t do it was false.

Pro-Tip: not everyone who disagrees with or corrects you is “trolling” or “doing their thing”. Sometimes they might just appreciate accuracy.
Click to expand...

Also pro tip: Setting expectations for year 3 right out of the gate is still setting high expectations...It’s just that he added a timeline to help inform the fan base. I appreciate that. You don’t need to die on this hill.
 

PoockItInfor6 said:
Also pro tip: Setting expectations for year 3 right out of the gate is still setting high expectations...It’s just that he added a timeline to help inform the fan base. I appreciate that. You don’t need to die on this hill.
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He actually set them high for year 4 (not 3) out of the gate - but yes, he did set them high for the future. Not sure why folks keep telling me about that? He did do that. He delivered too. Awesome, but nothing to do with this debate either.
 

Spoofin said:
He actually set them high for year 4 (not 3) out of the gate - but yes, he did set them high for the future. Not sure why folks keep telling me about that? He did do that. He delivered too. Awesome, but nothing to do with this debate either.
Click to expand...
Keep digging. The tippy top of your head is still above ground.
 



Recalling a school's great tradition is something you SHOULD do, if you have one. Minnesota does. It deep down tells the players what was possible before and what can happen again. Not every school can do that (admittedly, what Snyder was able to do at Kansas State might be the best coaching job in CFB history).

Like Urban Meyer has said....Minnesota has been a good program. Just in this century we have fielded many good football teams. Had some decent to good teams in every decade, in fact. What's different now is that the U is finally making a REAL commitment to doing something other than just "Maintenance-level funding" for football.

This goes back farther than one thinks. I believe it started when Bierman was let go after the 1950 season. Too many at the U got caught-up in the "de-emphasis" movement that cost many schools their programs and formed the Ivy League. Many wanted the U to go that route. Minnesota stayed near
the bottom in school support for decades. Frankly, its actually amazing that the team did as well as it did over the decades given that. That's why we should applaud the Williams, Spears, and Bierman teams, as well as Warmath's. But, we should also honor the efforts made under the other coaches. Many fans today have no idea how "upstream" those teams were rowing. Ask anyone who played for Stoll.

That said, its finally nice to see the support. I have been saying for decades that if the U only would support football at the middle of the pack level in the conference, you would see dramatic improvement on the field. Those 6-5s would have been 8-3s, and those 7-4s could have been 9-2 or better. Winning in football, believe it or not, is a NATURAL position for the U. Again, the fact that they had the winning seasons they did at the bottom of the support list establishes that, just as much as the 11-2 season does.

Tradition restored!
 

John Galt said:
Great Post Murray. Fleck has the highest expectations of any coach we’ve ever had.
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Um.....Bierman :)

I never could believe that he was as pessimistic as he sounded. He always expected his teams to win, 100% of the time.
 


I like that we are somewhat following his chart of success.
 

Wait, what? I'm confused.....what happened to "Year Zero"? ;)
 

Holy crap some of the back and forths in this place get mind numbingly stupid sometimes :)

The tricky part for Fleck when he took over was that he had to set some realistic expectations right off the bat. There was a subset of the fanbase that saw 9 wins in 2016 so expected that level of success right away. For those people, yes Fleck had to dial back expectations some right off the bat.

I personally never saw it as dialing things back initially because I looked at the roster and didn't see much there to give me a lot of hope for early success. The reality is that Fleck has pretty much laid out the way things were going to go. We were a bit ahead of schedule this past season but if we stay on track next year should be the one where we really take off.
 

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