The question must be asked….

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bga1

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We fans think in terms of playing a sport to win and it is a priority for our favorite team to do so.

Here’s a question: What if there is no plan for winning in major sports at the U? What if the higher minds actually see sports as drain on academic goals? What if diversity, equity and inclusion means that a women’s volleyball win is a bigger deal than big time basketball programs? What if we care more than they do and our idea of winning and competing at the highest level is really no more than an irritation to the elites?

If that were true then we would see it in their decision making…and maybe we do. We will find out in the next 6 months.
 

Interesting questions. I would say that the evidence certainly points to us caring more about basketball than they do.

Of course, they may also be, relatively speaking, broke. Remember, it wasn't that long ago (2020) that the athletic department cut 4 men's sports teams and reported a revenue loss of $75 million.

Football appears to be a different matter. They pay Fleck well and appear more willing to invest in that program. Given hockey's cultural importance to the state, the presence of multiple intra-state rivals, and the fact that they can maintain their status as a big fish in a small pond in that sport they likely will continue to invest there.

If Ben Johnson has another losing season, he should by all rights be fired. But, will they spend the money to get an established coach with a demonstrable track record like Penn State (another school that historically didn't seem to care much about basketball) just did? I can't rule that out but I have no confidence that they will.

I wouldn't get too wrapped up in the theory that the sad state of basketball is solely the responsibility of a cabal of insidious academic elites (I know you love a good conspiracy theory). I've lived in this state for a little over 20 years now and I haven't met that many people in my daily life who follow Gopher basketball (although I detected a stronger interest in Tubby's earlier years).
 
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Most universities have come to realize that winning in the major sports people care about brings in more $$ for the University in all areas and increases public engagement. Not all of them, but most of them. I don't know if the U is one of the exceptions or not. I hope not.
 

TwistingMyMelon said:
Interesting questions. I would say that the evidence certainly points to us caring more about basketball than they do.

Of course, they may also be, relatively speaking, broke. Remember, it wasn't that long ago (2020) that the athletic department cut 4 men's sports teams and reported a revenue loss of $75 million.

Football appears to be a different matter. They pay Fleck well and appear more willing to invest in that program. Given hockey's cultural importance to the state, the presence of multiple intra-state rivals, and the fact that they can maintain their status as a big fish in a small pond in that sport they likely will continue to invest there.

If Ben Johnson has another losing season, he should by all rights be fired. But, will they spend the money to get an established coach with a demonstrable track record like Penn State (another school that historically didn't seem to care much about basketball) just did? I can't rule that out but I have no confidence that they will.

I wouldn't get too wrapped up in the theory that the sad state of basketball is solely the responsibility of a cabal of insidious academic elites (I know you love a good conspiracy theory). I've lived in this state for a little over 20 years now and I haven't met that many people in my daily life who follow Gopher basketball (although I detected a stronger interest in Tubby's earlier years).
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There used to be a ton more fans who cared
 



howeda7 said:
Most universities have come to realize that winning in the major sports people care about brings in more $$ for the University in all areas and increases public engagement. Not all of them, but most of them. I don't know if the U is one of the exceptions or not. I hope not.
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This is what the successful schools conclude, and they're right, of course. It could be that the U has concluded and committed likewise and are just bad at this.
 

Bad Gopher said:
This is what the successful schools conclude, and they're right, of course. It could be that the U has concluded and committed likewise and are just bad at this.
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That could be true. Historically we have made moves when the university was embarrassed by scandal or gross incompetence. We’re in the gross incompetence category in basketball now. It’s time for a bold move and not a band aid. For the wrath Coyle takes, his hires, except this one, have followed a pattern of proven previous professionalism. Whalen was outside that box but was worth the risk given her status in the community.

Football was a national laughing stock for a long time and has been pulled from that abyss. I think it’s a lot easier to do that in basketball.
 

Holy Man said:
That could be true. Historically we have made moves when the university was embarrassed by scandal or gross incompetence. We’re in the gross incompetence category in basketball now. It’s time for a bold move and not a band aid. For the wrath Coyle takes, his hires, except this one, have followed a pattern of proven previous professionalism. Whalen was outside that box but was worth the risk given her status in the community.

Football was a national laughing stock for a long time and has been pulled from that abyss. I think it’s a lot easier to do that in basketball.
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I also think there was an alterior motive in the CBJ hiring. Money i don't think is an issue for coaches and facilities anymore, but getting the right one for winning (and not being off field issue) is proving to be harder for them.
 




Holy Man said:
For the wrath Coyle takes, his hires, except this one, have followed a pattern of proven previous professionalism. Whalen was outside that box but was worth the risk given her status in the community.
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That's good to hear because a Big Ten basketball coaching position should not be an entry level job. I'd prefer to embrace the theory that Ben's hiring was an anomalous, one-time compromise anyway so I'll hold out hope that the AD's next hire embodies that "proven previous professionalism" that you mentioned.
 

bga1 said:
We fans think in terms of playing a sport to win and it is a priority for our favorite team to do so.

Here’s a question: What if there is no plan for winning in major sports at the U? What if the higher minds actually see sports as drain on academic goals? What if diversity, equity and inclusion means that a women’s volleyball win is a bigger deal than big time basketball programs? What if we care more than they do and our idea of winning and competing at the highest level is really no more than an irritation to the elites?

If that were true then we would see it in their decision making…and maybe we do. We will find out in the next 6 months.
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Look at the years Joel Maturi was AD. How did downplaying revenue earning sports and pushing funding to non-revenue earning sports work out? The Public at-large will dead-eye you regarding those sports unless they have a personal tie-in, a kid, a neighbor or a relative, who played a specific sport. It would be great to elevate those sports, but it has to be done by results, not simply funding.
 

Couldn't we ask this question about Minnesota for decades? It just dawned on me the other day that I am now in the age range that my Dad and Uncles stopped having any interest in Gopher sports. They were around for a National Title in football and one of my Uncles was a few years ahead of McHale as a basketball player in the same area of the state. One thing I remember them being upset about was us no longer being ever being competitive with Michigan who was a "rival" in football. I haven't even been alive for a single home football win against Michigan. In my lifetime, we've went from being at the bottom of the conference with our other rivals in football (Wisconsin and Iowa) to seeing both of them dominate us and occasionally reach the top of the conference. What has the "U" really ever done to suggest that bothers them? What clearly bothered them was the supposed Gopher Basketball scandal that most other schools would have lashed out against. The '97 final four inculded Minnesota, Kentucky, Arizona, and North Carolina. All 4 schools have been found to have "cheated". By continuing to punish ourselves over and over, people STILL talk about it. Players not doing their own schoolwork? The HORROR. Next thing your are going to tell me is kids were getting paid before NIL! By making compliance with NCAA rules such a focus because of this alleged embarrassment, the U has actually succeeded in constantly reminding people that their program once "cheated" (by doing what everybody does) because the basketball program has done nothing since that point. Compare that to Baylor which had a much uglier actual scandal that occurred much more recently...which program is thought of in a better light?

Everything at the U with regards to athletics seems to be reactionary instead of forward thinking. When they ask for money it's because they are behind and want to try to mimic what someone else has already done. We're on the same NIL track that we were on with facilities over the decade prior. It's the same pitch that we're way behind and we need your money just to be competitive. In the case of the facilities drive, they leave Pitino in place with the new facilities (when they are actually a slight competitive advantage) even though his basketball program is near the bottom of the conference. We miss out on all the local recruits. Did the "U" do it's part here? How do people who put up money for the needed practice facility feel when they are approached to donate for NIL? Between Pitino and Johnson, how long has the U been at the bottom of the Conference now in terms of compensation? I'd guess we haven't paid above 10th in the Conference (at the very top) since we fired Tubby 11 years ago. When people talk about big donors for NIL and the fact we don't have any, who are these people supposed to be. Football followed a similar story with TCF bank stadium. It opened in 2009 and there wasn't a truly significant home moment until the 2019 win over Penn State...we didn't even beat Wisconsin at home until 2020!

Clearly something weird happened with the Ben Johnson hire. He would not have received an interview at any other power 5 school. There is a lot of smoke out there that Dutcher was the guy. I think it shows how far the program has fallen that there hasn't been enough outratge to even get to the bottom of what/how this exactly happened. I remember the absolute venom that was on this board early in the Monson years when people were already convinced he couldn't coach and we made a massive mistake. Most of those names are long gone from this board.

What is the U doing to show it actually wants to compete? It's not about being a pro sports market. Washington is supposedly thriving with NIL in Seattle and has had success off and on in the PAC 12 for a long time. People love to make excuses for why Minnesota can't compete, but Washington is competing with Oregon/USC/UCLA and we can't compete with Nebraska/Wisconsin/Iowa? It's BS. Lack of desire within the Univeristy leadership has to be at least a portion of the issue. It can't all just be incompetence.

The three slogans I've heard coming out of University athletic leadership in recent years have been "Nothing Short of Greatness" to describe the facilities drive and "I didn't come here to go .500" from Mark Coyle and "We're not going back" from PJ Fleck. The University has lived up to none of those things.
 




The u would rather bump shoulders with the academia elites of the world..... Thats all they care about...
 

The volleyball team has been putting out a better product than the basketball team for years. The women volleyball games should be in the barn and the men’s basketball team should be relegated to the current volleyball arena.
 

Nonsense. D1 college athletics brings in big time money to the school. And didn't they go out and bring in a national championship winning coach to the program just 15 (or so) years ago? It didn't work out like we had hoped......but to say that the higher ups at the University don't care about the success of the revenue programs makes no sense.
 

bga1 said:
We fans think in terms of playing a sport to win and it is a priority for our favorite team to do so.

Here’s a question: What if there is no plan for winning in major sports at the U? What if the higher minds actually see sports as drain on academic goals? What if diversity, equity and inclusion means that a women’s volleyball win is a bigger deal than big time basketball programs? What if we care more than they do and our idea of winning and competing at the highest level is really no more than an irritation to the elites?

If that were true then we would see it in their decision making…and maybe we do. We will find out in the next 6 months.
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I don’t think you have PJ Fleck as a football coach or Mark Coyle as an AD if that’s the case. PJ is someone who values winning and Coyle was a proven AD at a P5 school. They both had and continue to have options.
 

stocker08 said:
Nonsense. D1 college athletics brings in big time money to the school. And didn't they go out and bring in a national championship winning coach to the program just 15 (or so) years ago? It didn't work out like we had hoped......but to say that the higher ups at the University don't care about the success of the revenue programs makes no sense.
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Bruinicks was certainly a good president for athletics. Goebel not so much. Currently who knows. But this should be Coyle's call.
 

Reusse on a recent podcast was talking about Gopher hoops. He said he has heard from "fairly reliable sources" that Coyle wanted Brian Dutcher as the coach, but the U President wanted Johnson.
According to Reusse, Dutcher was approached about the job but his season had just ended and Dutcher said he needed time to think it over and discuss it with his family. Reusse claims that the Administration did not want to wait for Dutcher to make up his mind and told Coyle to hire Johnson.
 

short ornery norwegian said:
Reusse on a recent podcast was talking about Gopher hoops. He said he has heard from "fairly reliable sources" that Coyle wanted Brian Dutcher as the coach, but the U President wanted Johnson.
According to Reusse, Dutcher was approached about the job but his season had just ended and Dutcher said he needed time to think it over and discuss it with his family. Reusse claims that the Administration did not want to wait for Dutcher to make up his mind and told Coyle to hire Johnson.
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Which day was this on?
 




Dave H said:
You realize the U is a college right?
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Hard to tell with researchers making up data in an Alzheimer's program, a Psych Department with receptionists giving out prescriptions, a climate change researcher abusing his financial resources, and the Education School proposing an ideological litmus test for teachers.
 

short ornery norwegian said:
Reusse on a recent podcast was talking about Gopher hoops. He said he has heard from "fairly reliable sources" that Coyle wanted Brian Dutcher as the coach, but the U President wanted Johnson.
According to Reusse, Dutcher was approached about the job but his season had just ended and Dutcher said he needed time to think it over and discuss it with his family. Reusse claims that the Administration did not want to wait for Dutcher to make up his mind and told Coyle to hire Johnson.
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Not that I give a damn about anything Reusse related, but I will never not believe that someone overrode Coyle on the BJ hire.
 

Plenty of mistakes here- missing on Mark Few and on and on. We don’t need cloak and dagger to explain what the past.
 



stocker08 said:
Nonsense. D1 college athletics brings in big time money to the school. And didn't they go out and bring in a national championship winning coach to the program just 15 (or so) years ago? It didn't work out like we had hoped......but to say that the higher ups at the University don't care about the success of the revenue programs makes no sense.
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Those 15 years seem like a long-time ago. They've hired two consecutive head coaches who were either entry level or almost entry level. Some years ago I thought there were four Big Ten programs who gave the impression that they didn't care about basketball: Nebraska, Penn State, Northwestern, and Minnesota. Since then two of those programs hired an established coach and paid accordingly. Will Minnesota do the same with its next hire?
 

my thoughts on the U's and Coyle's priorities going back to when Coyle fired JRob:
1. No dramas
2. No dramas
3. No dramas
4. budget
5. winning

i may have missed it, but seems its been a while since we had anything like bball players making a sex tape, or wrestlers selling xanax
 

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