The peak of the Pitino era

[Bigg Robb]

I'm bewildered how anyone can honestly defend Pitino. So many comments on this thread start with "if". Unfortunately, he hasn't recruited well, despite the best in-state classes ever. Also, in 7 years, I haven't watched a game where I would say that his coaching was the difference in a win. There's 3 of those every year with Izzo. I'm not saying he needs to be Izzo, but maybe one would be nice. He needs to go

 

[Some guy]

Gophers are #53 in the NET.

Proof the net sucks.
If a team who loses half their games is in the top 53 there is an over emphasis on SOS and an under emphasis on winning.

Why are we top 53, because we have played a tough schedule. Because teams we played are rated high.
The entire NET system is designed for mediocre p6 teams to have high net ratings and is completely screwed by confirmation bias.

don’t care who a 12-13 team played

Meanwhile 19-10 Bradley isn’t even top 100


don’t know who wins a Bradley Minnesota game. And neither does anyone else, but any system that has any under .500 team top 60 with a 19-10 team not in the top 100 is a worthless ranking

 

[cjbfbp]

don’t care who a 12-13 team played

Meanwhile 19-10 Bradley isn’t even top 100

don’t know who wins a Bradley Minnesota game. And neither does anyone else, but any system that has any under .500 team top 60 with a 19-10 team not in the top 100 is a worthless ranking

Well, if one likes RPI (the dominant selection measure for many years), one would agree with you and expect that matchup to be a close game. Minnesota is #101 by that measure and Bradley is #103.

 

[Replacement Gopher]

I was done when he kept saying the team needed to find its identity. Dude, you are the head coach, you get to define the identity - that is the entire purpose of your job.

 

[Some guy]

Well, if one likes RPI (the dominant selection measure for many years), one would agree with you and expect that matchup to be a close game. Minnesota is #101 by that measure and Bradley is #103.

RPI has its issues too, but here is my deal, KenPom has his rankings that were some of the first to use efficiency metrics to rank teams. He himself would tell you that efficiency rankings are better than RPI at projecting future results but he himself would also tell you we shouldn’t rank college teams based on projected future results

 

[Some guy]

I have the same issue with the college football selection.

we shouldn’t try to pick and rank best teams. That’s subjective.
We should try to pick and measure best resumes.
The number one thing on a resume is a win. Not a quality loss.

 

[goldenboy]

I have the same issue with the college football selection.

we shouldn’t try to pick and rank best teams. That’s subjective.
We should try to pick and measure best resumes.
The number one thing on a resume is a win. Not a quality loss.

That is really only true when everybody plays the same teams. An overtime loss to a B1G team should be weighed more favorably that a non-con win against the sisters of the poor.

 

[Some guy]

That is really only true when everybody plays the same teams. An overtime loss to a B1G team should be weighed more favorably that a non-con win against the sisters of the poor.

Maybe. Except Wisconsin lost to New Mexico this year. And northwestern and Nebraska are awful.

No doubt if the teams are close you give the benefit of the doubt to the team with the tougher schedule.

what if one team has 24 wins and one team has 17? I am comfortable saying that the 17 win team has already proven itself to be mediocre.
They might be better than the 24 win team, but I don’t care. If you’re at or around .500 even if you play the toughest schedule in the world...you shouldn’t be picked ahead of teams with less than 5 losses.

 

[Go Gophs]

What about other teams? So every team out there is losing the same or less than UMn? Every team out there has a better recruiting class than UMn coming in? Funny, I thought our class being ranked #48 meant that only 47 teams had better recruiting classes than us? Gonzaga has 8 times since 2003 had recruiting classes ranked higher than #110, while Pitino has only twice had a class above #48, but none over #71.

Congrats, you are 48th-70 in recruiting nationwide. That is terrible FYI for a power 5 conference team.

5x12 = 60. That means you are basically bottom of the barrel or at least bottom 3rd compared to other power 5 teams. Pitino has NOT recruited well. That's a fact. He brought in Coffey, Mason, Murphy. Oturuo and now Carr. The rest of his recruits were AT BEST replacement level guys as compared to other major conference players. Tubby recuited MUCH better than Pitino has sans his last year or so and he also did a better job coaching and winning here.

This coupled with the FACT that Minnesota has produced more basketball talent during his tenure as they did the prior 20-30 years tells me Pitino as a recruiter is average at best.

 

[gopherguy15]

Any Power 6 conferences? Doubt it. They lost at Butler a middle of the pack Big East team and DePaul at home, who is rock bottom. They also fell at Utah who is entrenched in the bottom half of the Pac12 conference.

If you were being sarcastic, my apologies. The Gophers are what their record says they are.

Not defending the Gophers or Pitino at all, but statements like these annoy me. Butler started the season 15-1 and beat a lot of good teams along the way. Regardless of their late season fall, they are still close to locking up a bid. DePaul pounded Iowa and Texas Tech in the non-conference. I guess the NCAA tournament committee should leave the Hawkeyes and Red Raiders out of the tournament because losing to a once-hot DePaul team is too embarrassing. And hey! Kentucky lost to Utah, so we can reasonably assume that the Wildcats would probably finish below Oregon St in the Pac-12.

 

[howeda7]

Not defending the Gophers or Pitino at all, but statements like these annoy me. Butler started the season 15-1 and beat a lot of good teams along the way. Regardless of their late season fall, they are still close to locking up a bid. DePaul pounded Iowa and Texas Tech in the non-conference. I guess the NCAA tournament committee should leave the Hawkeyes and Red Raiders out of the tournament because losing to a once-hot DePaul team is too embarrassing. And hey! Kentucky lost to Utah, so we can reasonably assume that the Wildcats would probably finish below Oregon St in the Pac-12.

You have a point. But we also lost to ALL of them. Any one is forgivable. Our overall non-conference was not good.

 

[Ope3]

Not defending the Gophers or Pitino at all, but statements like these annoy me. Butler started the season 15-1 and beat a lot of good teams along the way. Regardless of their late season fall, they are still close to locking up a bid. DePaul pounded Iowa and Texas Tech in the non-conference. I guess the NCAA tournament committee should leave the Hawkeyes and Red Raiders out of the tournament because losing to a once-hot DePaul team is too embarrassing. And hey! Kentucky lost to Utah, so we can reasonably assume that the Wildcats would probably finish below Oregon St in the Pac-12.

Not sure why facts would annoy you. What other evidence is there that they would finish "much higher" in other P6 Conferences when they struggle so much to away from Williams Arena?

My response was to refute how the Gophers would finish in the other P6 conferences. Of course you know that Iowa more than made up for their loss to DePaul by winning 6 Road/Neutral games and are currently 12-7 vs Quad 1 & 2.

Texas Tech, they do still have work to do but also have games with Baylor & Kansas which could make the DePaul loss moot.

 

[KillmeNow]

Congrats, you are 48th-70 in recruiting nationwide. That is terrible FYI for a power 5 conference team.

5x12 = 60. That means you are basically bottom of the barrel or at least bottom 3rd compared to other power 5 teams. Pitino has NOT recruited well. That's a fact. He brought in Coffey, Mason, Murphy. Oturuo and now Carr. The rest of his recruits were AT BEST replacement level guys as compared to other major conference players. Tubby recuited MUCH better than Pitino has sans his last year or so and he also did a better job coaching and winning here.

This coupled with the FACT that Minnesota has produced more basketball talent during his tenure as they did the prior 20-30 years tells me Pitino as a recruiter is average at best.

DUDE, are you fucking serious? Are you just uneducated or are you a bold faced LIAR???

Last 4 classes of Tubby were ranked #91, #74 & #54 and N/A. In 2010 UMn isn't even listed? So not one of those were BETTER than 54. Pitino's last 3 classes? Not one was WORSE than #48. So it seems to me you are thinking of nothing but his first class of NINE that he brought in? Well, it was ranked highly partly because of Royce White, who never played for the Gophers, did he? Rodney Williams was ranked highly but never lived up to the hype. Hollins turned out, as did Mbakwe and a couple others eventually had at least one decent season and/or contributed enough that I remember them. But how is 91-74-54 MUCH better than 45-37-48???

 

[Go Gophs]

DUDE, are you fucking serious? Are you just uneducated or are you a bold faced LIAR???

Last 4 classes of Tubby were ranked #91, #74 & #54 and N/A. In 2010 UMn isn't even listed? So not one of those were BETTER than 54. Pitino's last 3 classes? Not one was WORSE than #48. So it seems to me you are thinking of nothing but his first class of NINE that he brought in? Well, it was ranked highly partly because of Royce White, who never played for the Gophers, did he? Rodney Williams was ranked highly but never lived up to the hype. Hollins turned out, as did Mbakwe and a couple others eventually had at least one decent season and/or contributed enough that I remember them. But how is 91-74-54 MUCH better than 45-37-48???

Quit talking tough through a computer screen. It makes you look stupid. And also like you think you are tough.

Six Years - The Richard Pitino/Tubby Smith Comparison

A common discussion among fans as of late has been "it's year six of Richard Pitino, how does that compare to the Tubby Smith tenure?" While it's hard to do direct

247sports.com

 

[GophersInIowa]

Greenlee and Freeman are this years Konate and Diedhou.

I think it's a bit premature to say that. You may be right but it's a little early for that IMO.

 

[KillmeNow]

Quit talking tough through a computer screen. It makes you look stupid. And also like you think you are tough.

Six Years - The Richard Pitino/Tubby Smith Comparison

A common discussion among fans as of late has been "it's year six of Richard Pitino, how does that compare to the Tubby Smith tenure?" While it's hard to do direct

247sports.com

Talking tough? Did I threaten you to a fight or something? Did I express that I could beat you up in a fight? lol Dude, stop saying stupid sh1t and I'll stop ASKING you if you are stupid or a liar.


Tell me, how 91-74-54 is better than 45-37-48?

 

[Go Gophs]

Talking tough? Did I threaten you to a fight or something? Did I express that I could beat you up in a fight? lol Dude, stop saying stupid sh1t and I'll stop ASKING you if you are stupid or a liar.


Tell me, how 91-74-54 is better than 45-37-48?

Did you read the link I posted? Tubbys guys were much more highly rated overall.

Tubby's class with Rodney Williams etc, was top 10 in the nation and #1 in the Big Ten. The one before that was 26 nationally and #3 in the Big Ten. Pitino has done nothing similar or even close for that matter. Nor does he have the ability to do so.

This at at time when Minnesota basketball is producing high end guys year in, year out. Flat out Pitino has done and average to poor job recruiting his entire tenure here.

 

[KillmeNow]

Did you read the link I posted? Tubbys guys were much more highly rated overall.

Tubby's class with Rodney Williams etc, was top 10 in the nation and #1 in the Big Ten. The one before that was 26 nationally and #3 in the Big Ten. Pitino has done nothing similar or even close for that matter. Nor does he have the ability to do so.

This at at time when Minnesota basketball is producing high end guys year in, year out. Flat out Pitino has done and average to poor job recruiting his entire tenure here.

Yeah, I read the link you posted and no one in the article does the author even hint that Tubby was a "MUCH" better recruiter. He clearly expresses that they were very equal.

Main difference being Tubby started off with a bang, a 9 person class that sure, it got rated #10, but they always rate classes better the more players are in it, and 5 person classes are considered HUGE, so a 9 person class is just ridiculous and honestly ends up producing problems down the road unless you lose several of those 9 players to the NBA or to a transfer and reshirt at least a few of them as well.

And of those 9 players, the highest rated one was a horrible recruit. He didn't have the grades/test scores to even get in, did he? And he had character issues as well, didn't he? I can't remember honestly, but did he even play a full season for the Gophers? Take out Royce White from that bloated class and it wasn't all that impressive.

And then after that one big year, he followed that up with 4 straight years of nothing or classes not even Top 50.

On the other side, Pitino's last 3 classes are all in the Top 50 range, with the #80 ranked player already committed for the 2021 class.


Tubby got WORSE as time went along, and the main reason he got fired.

Pitino's getting BETTER as time goes along, and is seemingly why he is still here.

 

[tikited]

Pitino is getting fired and there will be transfers and recruits leaving....Mashburn for sure......The cupboard will be bare but a change has to happen...46-79 in the B10 is not good enough.

How is Mashburn a "for sure"? You have no idea.

 

[Go Gophs]

Yeah, I read the link you posted and no one in the article does the author even hint that Tubby was a "MUCH" better recruiter. He clearly expresses that they were very equal.

Main difference being Tubby started off with a bang, a 9 person class that sure, it got rated #10, but they always rate classes better the more players are in it, and 5 person classes are considered HUGE, so a 9 person class is just ridiculous and honestly ends up producing problems down the road unless you lose several of those 9 players to the NBA or to a transfer and reshirt at least a few of them as well.

And of those 9 players, the highest rated one was a horrible recruit. He didn't have the grades/test scores to even get in, did he? And he had character issues as well, didn't he? I can't remember honestly, but did he even play a full season for the Gophers? Take out Royce White from that bloated class and it wasn't all that impressive.

And then after that one big year, he followed that up with 4 straight years of nothing or classes not even Top 50.

On the other side, Pitino's last 3 classes are all in the Top 50 range, with the #80 ranked player already committed for the 2021 class.


Tubby got WORSE as time went along, and the main reason he got fired.

Pitino's getting BETTER as time goes along, and is seemingly why he is still here.

LOL

Yep getting better. Lost out on every top 8 recruit in the state this year unless they can get Walton. That's some great recruiting when they are right in your backyard.

I don't care what anyone says, recruiting guys that live that close is much easier than traveling to see them.

Tubby was getting bad toward the end, I agree. His first 2 classes though, only this past one with Oturo was any better or even equal and that is because of him and Carr.

If he were doing a good job recruiting it wouldn't KILL the team when a guy like Coffey leaves. Or when Oturo leaves next year and they are stuck again at the bottom of the conference.

 

[Gopherfan84]

Yeah, I read the link you posted and no one in the article does the author even hint that Tubby was a "MUCH" better recruiter. He clearly expresses that they were very equal.

Main difference being Tubby started off with a bang, a 9 person class that sure, it got rated #10, but they always rate classes better the more players are in it, and 5 person classes are considered HUGE, so a 9 person class is just ridiculous and honestly ends up producing problems down the road unless you lose several of those 9 players to the NBA or to a transfer and reshirt at least a few of them as well.

And of those 9 players, the highest rated one was a horrible recruit. He didn't have the grades/test scores to even get in, did he? And he had character issues as well, didn't he? I can't remember honestly, but did he even play a full season for the Gophers? Take out Royce White from that bloated class and it wasn't all that impressive.

And then after that one big year, he followed that up with 4 straight years of nothing or classes not even Top 50.

On the other side, Pitino's last 3 classes are all in the Top 50 range, with the #80 ranked player already committed for the 2021 class.


Tubby got WORSE as time went along, and the main reason he got fired.

Pitino's getting BETTER as time goes along, and is seemingly why he is still here.

The 247 link is messed up. The 2009 class had 4 guys. Royce, Rodney, Cobbs, and Trevor M. The 2010 class had: Mo Walker, Austin Hollins, Elliot, Oto, Chip, and Mav. Tubby's first two recruiting classes are better than anything Richard has done, however they were messes with Joseph, Iverson, and Cobbs leaving. White being a basketcase, and lack of development of Rodney, Ralph, and Mo. Tubby's last two classes were the equivalent of one of Richards classes (IW and Jamir Harris). The point is that ratings are stupid. It's about identify and developing players. I honestly believe Richard and his current staff do that better than Tubby's. Whether either are good enough is up for fair discussion.

 

[Gopherfan84]

LOL

Yep getting better. Lost out on every top 10 recruit in the state this year. That's some great recruiting when they are right in your backyard.

I don't care what anyone says, recruiting guys that live that close is much easier than traveling to see them.

Tubby was getting bad toward the end, I agree. His first 2 classes though, only this past one with Oturo was any better or even equal and that is because of him and Carr.

If he were doing a good job recruiting it wouldn't KILL the team when a guy like Coffey leaves. Or when Oturo leaves next year and they are stuck again at the bottom of the conference.

The part in bold can be true in a sense, but doesn't matter. It matters who you land. If you have to travel to land them, you travel to land them. If you get some that want to stay home, you get that. It doesn't matter where they are from. Enough programs have proven that and have been laid out in numerous other threads. Beard gets guys to Lubbock Texas from all over the world. They are not great because they do great with recruiting Texas kids. Same for Virginia, Villanova, Michigan, Gonzaga, Ohio State, Florida State, Baylor, Kentucky, Duke, UNC, Tennessee, Auburn, Purdue, Xavier, Louisville or basically any other successful major D1 program.