The next great Fleck team

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upnorthkid said:
i mean sure. this is the same thing that could be said for every team. but on paper there's no immediate reason purely from a schedule standpoint, which is really all we know right now
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You think it’ll be a special year based on the schedule?
 

IceBoxGopher said:
That's been the main thing. In each season since 2019 there's been dropped games that were for sure winnable.
  • 2020 - Wisconsin, lost by 3
  • 2021 - Bowling Green, lost by 4
  • 2022 - Purdue, lost by 10
  • 2023 - Northwestern, lost by 3 (OT)
  • 2024 - North Carolina, lost by 2
  • 2025 - California, lost by 13
Win those, the bowls are better, a Big Ten Championship Game is in play, at least in 2022.
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Same for every team out there. Also many game MN won that they easily could have lost.
 


gopherbadgerman said:
You think it’ll be a special year based on the schedule?
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From the schedule side, it’s about as easy a ride as you’re going to get in a big ten year. Team like MN needs some schedule luck to have it work out.

Pieces are there for so many teams but you have to catch some breaks unless you’re OSU, Georgia, etc. which the schedule affords this year.
 


gopherbadgerman said:
Every year there are games MN could have won and games they could have lost. No different than any other team.
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So why are we even here on this forum talking about it? Let's just shut it down. Pointless to even shoot the sh*t about the game we love. Pointless to even speculate. Who cares, right?
 

upnorthkid said:
The schedule is once again, very favorable prognostically coming into the year
Miss OSU and Oregon
Michigan in retool mode. PSU in rebuild mode.
Zero reason this couldn't be one of those years. Nothing on the schedule that is chalked as an absolute, no doubt about it you're losing this game kind of one (like what OSU and Oregon were) which increases your margin.
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I agree in general, but to play Devil's Advocate:
  • First four games, we get an SEC team (albeit Miss State) at home, and a road game at Washington, never an easy place to play. If the team isn't locked in, you risk being 2-2 in your first four.
  • Say we have a clunker in Seattle like we did in Berkeley next year. Yes, Michigan has a new staff, but they are still Michigan. You then risk being 2-3.
  • While Purdue has really struggled, they've added some nice transfer pieces and road games there are always weird. It's always a trap game even on off years.
  • After Purdue we have Iowa and Indiana back to back.
I could keep going, but you see what I'm getting at here. It's the type of schedule to where if we don't lock in, if Danny Collins doesn't show up, if we can't get any push, it could get ugly in those first 6-7 games.

My first reaction to the schedule was "I don't like the flow of it" because of our mix of road games/who we play in that first half.
 


gopherbadgerman said:
And WRs?
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I think Tracy and smith are a decent 1-2
Not sure who 3 is

Running the ball is critical. Because the way the OC seems to want to call it we want to be in 12 personnel and then you’re only playing 2. But if you’re in 12 personnel and can’t run that’s ugly football.

I listed 3 things:
I would’ve put WR as number 4 on the list.
I would put kicker #5
DB depth is number #6



I am usually as optimistic as any
I think there are a lot of reasons to think next years team wins 8 regular season games. They’re going to have to show me they’ve cleaned up some spots (and I am going to have to see Michigan and Penn state are still not top 15 teams) before I can start believing in 10-2 or better.
 



Some guy said:
I think Tracy and smith are a decent 1-2
Not sure who 3 is

Running the ball is critical. Because the way the OC seems to want to call it we want to be in 12 personnel and then you’re only playing 2. But if you’re in 12 personnel and can’t run that’s ugly football.

I listed 3 things:
I would’ve put WR as number 4 on the list.
I would put kicker #5
DB depth is number #6



I am usually as optimistic as any
I think there are a lot of reasons to think next years team wins 8 regular season games. They’re going to have to show me they’ve cleaned up some spots (and I am going to have to see Michigan and Penn state are still not top 15 teams) before I can start believing in 10-2 or better.
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Do you have a sense as to the percentage of times the Gophers lined up in 12 personnel on first down and mixed downs?
 


GophEnEspaña said:
I agree in general, but to play Devil's Advocate:
  • First four games, we get an SEC team (albeit Miss State) at home, and a road game at Washington, never an easy place to play. If the team isn't locked in, you risk being 2-2 in your first four.
  • Say we have a clunker in Seattle like we did in Berkeley next year. Yes, Michigan has a new staff, but they are still Michigan. You then risk being 2-3.
  • While Purdue has really struggled, they've added some nice transfer pieces and road games there are always weird. It's always a trap game even on off years.
  • After Purdue we have Iowa and Indiana back to back.
I could keep going, but you see what I'm getting at here. It's the type of schedule to where if we don't lock in, if Danny Collins doesn't show up, if we can't get any push, it could get ugly in those first 6-7 games.

My first reaction to the schedule was "I don't like the flow of it" because of our mix of road games/who we play in that first half.
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We’re Minnesota so we could go 5-7 with any schedule
 




Some guy said:
I think Tracy and smith are a decent 1-2
Not sure who 3 is

Running the ball is critical. Because the way the OC seems to want to call it we want to be in 12 personnel and then you’re only playing 2. But if you’re in 12 personnel and can’t run that’s ugly football.

I listed 3 things:
I would’ve put WR as number 4 on the list.
I would put kicker #5
DB depth is number #6



I am usually as optimistic as any
I think there are a lot of reasons to think next years team wins 8 regular season games. They’re going to have to show me they’ve cleaned up some spots (and I am going to have to see Michigan and Penn state are still not top 15 teams) before I can start believing in 10-2 or better.
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I would agree that running the ball/OL play is the most important. If they can run the ball I would agree that 8 wins seems like a good number. I do think if they struggle to run it will be a challenging year. I think Jalen Smith is probably their best WR (at least now).
 


BilldGopher said:
Have you got Biffs' next edition of Grays Sports Almanac: Complete Sports Statistics 2001-2040 after using your time machine?

Sorry to see that 2026 was a less-than-stellar season. I'm still going to keep my season tix to hope for a better season in 2027.:p
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Some day, a crazy, wild-eyed scientist or a kid may show up asking about that book.

... --- / .. - / --. --- . ...
 

touchdownvikings said:
Do you have a sense as to the percentage of times the Gophers lined up in 12 personnel on first down and mixed downs?
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I haven’t done a breakdown but that’s the way it feels to me since the last OC change

They seem to want to start and finish with that identity
They do many things but that seems to be the go to they’re trying to build around
 

GophersInIowa said:
It all comes down to the OL IMO (and staying healthy overall I suppose). If the OL can be pretty good, the team can be very good.
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If the team is top half in the big ten in rushing, I will feel supremely confident in an 8+ win regular season with a shot at 10+

They were 17 in 25
They were 13 in 24
 

gopherbadgerman said:
I would agree that running the ball/OL play is the most important. If they can run the ball I would agree that 8 wins seems like a good number. I do think if they struggle to run it will be a challenging year. I think Jalen Smith is probably their best WR (at least now).
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Agree on all counts

I think smith is a below average number one but not awful.
I think Tracy is an above average number two
I don’t know who number three is
 

Eastside Forever said:
Don't forget PJ's best season included Jerry Kill recruits. Just sayin'. The Empire guys.
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2019 Starters/Guys who played significant time

Kill/Claeys Recruits:
Offense
RB - Rodney Smith
RB - Shannon Brooks
Z WR - Tyler Johnson
TE - Jake Paulson
TE - Ko Kieft
LT - Sam Schlueter
LG - Blaise Andries
C - Conner Olson
Defense
DE - Winston DeLattiboudere
3T - Sam Renner
RUSH END - Carter Coughlin
MIKE LB - Thomas Barber
WILL LB - Kamal Martin
CB - Coney Durr
FS - Antoine Winfield Jr.

Fleck Recruits/Transfers:
Offense
QB - Tanner Morgan
RB - Mo Ibrahim
X WR - Rashod Bateman
S WR - Chris Autman-Bell
RG - Curtis Dunlap
RT - Daniel Faalele
6TH OL - John Michael Schmitz (consistently rotated in at C and both G spots)
Defense
NT - Micah Dew-Treadway*
WILL/SAM LB - Mariano Sori-Marin (Started 7 Games)
CB - Benjamin St-Juste*
$ - Chris Williamson*
SS - Jordan Howden

* = Transfer
 

ReeserMN said:
2019 Starters/Guys who played significant time

Kill/Claeys Recruits:
Offense
RB - Rodney Smith
RB - Shannon Brooks
Z WR - Tyler Johnson
TE - Jake Paulson
TE - Ko Kieft
LT - Sam Schlueter
LG - Blaise Andries
C - Conner Olson
Defense
DE - Winston DeLattiboudere
3T - Sam Renner
RUSH END - Carter Coughlin
MIKE LB - Thomas Barber
WILL LB - Kamal Martin
CB - Coney Durr
FS - Antoine Winfield Jr.

Fleck Recruits/Transfers:
Offense
QB - Tanner Morgan
RB - Mo Ibrahim
X WR - Rashod Bateman
S WR - Chris Autman-Bell
RG - Curtis Dunlap
RT - Daniel Faalele
6TH OL - John Michael Schmitz (consistently rotated in at C and both G spots)
Defense
NT - Micah Dew-Treadway*
WILL/SAM LB - Mariano Sori-Marin (Started 7 Games)
CB - Benjamin St-Juste*
$ - Chris Williamson*
SS - Jordan Howden

* = Transfer
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Also Smith the Alabama transfer on the interior dline, Mafe and Otomewo rotated in quite a bit, Oliver was the SAM back, Kiondre Thomas another Claeys guy had some run as well at DB. In regards to the empire class, kill gets all the credit for recruiting those guys will not dispute but all those guys spent 3-5 years after 2016 in Fleck program. Like in hoops sure Dan Monson recruiter Nolan and Hoffarber, Dutcher recruiter Burton, Newborn, Coffey and Shij, but Tubby and Clem coached and developed them
 

ReeserMN said:
2019 Starters/Guys who played significant time

Kill/Claeys Recruits:
Offense
RB - Rodney Smith
RB - Shannon Brooks
Z WR - Tyler Johnson
TE - Jake Paulson
TE - Ko Kieft
LT - Sam Schlueter
LG - Blaise Andries
C - Conner Olson
Defense
DE - Winston DeLattiboudere
3T - Sam Renner
RUSH END - Carter Coughlin
MIKE LB - Thomas Barber
WILL LB - Kamal Martin
CB - Coney Durr
FS - Antoine Winfield Jr.

Fleck Recruits/Transfers:
Offense
QB - Tanner Morgan
RB - Mo Ibrahim
X WR - Rashod Bateman
S WR - Chris Autman-Bell
RG - Curtis Dunlap
RT - Daniel Faalele
6TH OL - John Michael Schmitz (consistently rotated in at C and both G spots)
Defense
NT - Micah Dew-Treadway*
WILL/SAM LB - Mariano Sori-Marin (Started 7 Games)
CB - Benjamin St-Juste*
$ - Chris Williamson*
SS - Jordan Howden

* = Transfer
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Why does kill get credit for Claeys recruits?
Is this an admission he was never a real coach?

Either Claeys was never a real coach or these were Claeys recruits not kills. Can’t do it both ways (not all of them, but the “empire class”)


I’m fine if Claeys gets credit and he is a real coach.

I am fine if kill gets credit and we all admit Claeys was an interim coach
 

15 players on that 2019 roster were eventually drafted. Including 6 defensive backs. F that team had talent.
 

ReeserMN said:
2019 Starters/Guys who played significant time

Kill/Claeys Recruits:
Offense
RB - Rodney Smith
RB - Shannon Brooks
Z WR - Tyler Johnson
TE - Jake Paulson
TE - Ko Kieft
LT - Sam Schlueter
LG - Blaise Andries
C - Conner Olson
Defense
DE - Winston DeLattiboudere
3T - Sam Renner
RUSH END - Carter Coughlin
MIKE LB - Thomas Barber
WILL LB - Kamal Martin
CB - Coney Durr
FS - Antoine Winfield Jr.

Fleck Recruits/Transfers:
Offense
QB - Tanner Morgan
RB - Mo Ibrahim
X WR - Rashod Bateman
S WR - Chris Autman-Bell
RG - Curtis Dunlap
RT - Daniel Faalele
6TH OL - John Michael Schmitz (consistently rotated in at C and both G spots)
Defense
NT - Micah Dew-Treadway*
WILL/SAM LB - Mariano Sori-Marin (Started 7 Games)
CB - Benjamin St-Juste*
$ - Chris Williamson*
SS - Jordan Howden

* = Transfer
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Now do 2017 and see the complete void of talent at certain positions and how few talents we had in the junior and senior classes.
 



upnorthkid said:
The schedule is once again, very favorable prognostically coming into the year
Miss OSU and Oregon
Michigan in retool mode. PSU in rebuild mode.
Zero reason this couldn't be one of those years. Nothing on the schedule that is chalked as an absolute, no doubt about it you're losing this game kind of one (like what OSU and Oregon were) which increases your margin.
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We play Indiana at Indiana am I missing something. I know they lose their quarterback but come on if that is not a sure loss I don't know what is.
 


Some guy said:
Why does kill get credit for Claeys recruits?
Is this an admission he was never a real coach?

Either Claeys was never a real coach or these were Claeys recruits not kills. Can’t do it both ways (not all of them, but the “empire class”)


I’m fine if Claeys gets credit and he is a real coach.

I am fine if kill gets credit and we all admit Claeys was an interim coach
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The truly amazing part is that it is 2026 and we are still having this argument on this board.

The 2016 class ended up being great, it was a really strong in-state year in terms of talent, and they did a good job keeping guys home. They also found some really good players that as it turns out were criminally underrated by the recruiting sites.

The obsession this board has over who gets credit for the 2019 season is just foolish though. Yes, some of the players on that team were holdovers from the previous staff. However they also did very little developing under that old staff and did most of their developing under Fleck.....but in the end none of that really matters.

2019 was Fleck's 3rd season....it was his team regardless of who recruited some of the players on it.
 

MNVCGUY said:
The truly amazing part is that it is 2026 and we are still having this argument on this board.

The 2016 class ended up being great, it was a really strong in-state year in terms of talent, and they did a good job keeping guys home. They also found some really good players that as it turns out were criminally underrated by the recruiting sites.

The obsession this board has over who gets credit for the 2019 season is just foolish though. Yes, some of the players on that team were holdovers from the previous staff. However they also did very little developing under that old staff and did most of their developing under Fleck.....but in the end none of that really matters.

2019 was Fleck's 3rd season....it was his team regardless of who recruited some of the players on it.
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Yup. For some they want to give kill credit for Tyler Johnson rather than fleck but also want to give Mason credit for Eric decker and not Brewster.

Some people still haven’t gotten over the fact Claeys was let go. It’s pretty sad. It’s been 10 years, time to get over it
 

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