The NCAA has opened an investigation into No. 2 Michigan over possible rule-breaking around in-person scouting of opponents

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MplsGopher said:
Also, I think the impact of this is more limited than what people imagine.


Think about how it would have to work, the logistics of it:

- you have one week to train your guys up on what the next opponent's signs are
- what can you possibly teach them, program in that they're going to be able to do in the heat of the game??

They have barely enough time to get their own defensive calls in and line up in that position.

You're saying that they're going to be looking over at the (eg Gopher) sideline, see the opponent signs, and know exactly what play it is, every time? And then adjust themselves? For probably hundreds of different plays. Plus there will have been plays teams just put in that week.


I just think their players would barely have time to do it all.

So I think it would a lot more limited in what they can get out of it, than what people are allowing their imaginations to run away with.
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All you have to do is make the optimal call for your team vs the team you’re about to see.

Call a screen vs a blitz
Call a trap coverage vs a pass combo

You don’t have to have all 11 players know the signals to get a serious benefit.
 



So what's the punishment going to be?

Nothing?
Investigation lingers into the offseason and they Harbaugh gets suspended for three games again?
Barred from Post season play this season, or next?
Games forfeited?

Seems to me that a slap on the wrist would green light this for every team in the country, but I don't put anything past the NCAA.
 


Sure, on the handful of times a game we call a screen, they could call a better defense.

Again: is it not possible to figure this stuff out in tape study?? Was this just a belt and suspenders thing for a program with so much money they don’t know what to spend it on?
 

MplsGopher said:
Sure, on the handful of times a game we call a screen, they could call a better defense.

Again: is it not possible to figure this stuff out in tape study?? Was this just a belt and suspenders thing for a program with so much money they don’t know what to spend it on?
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Yes, it is possible to figure this stuff out with tape study. It’s a lot easier to do it and less time consuming if you can crack the code and figure out who the live signaler is.

Just like you can make good stock purchases without insider trading but it’s a lot easier with it.
Should we make insider trading legal because it is possible to make good stock purchases without it?
 



Some guy said:
Yes, it is possible to figure this stuff out with tape study. It’s a lot easier to do it and less time consuming if you can crack the code and figure out who the live signaler is.

Just like you can make good stock purchases without insider trading but it’s a lot easier with it.
Should we make insider trading legal because it is possible to make good stock purchases without it?
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No, we should make it legal because @MplsGopher already has his mind made up about it and no amount of facts or common sense are going to change that. He'll just keep arguing his point like he does in other threads, until the thread becomes unreadable and no one looks at it anymore.
 

Assuming the anonymous sources are verifiable. If there is a paper trail of his purchase of tickets along with video evidence of occupants filming the game while on direct Michigan payroll or evidence of payments to Stalions while not on payroll we have the odd situation of evidence-supported allegations…wierd.

If legit then will the NCAA take action…this year or 3 years from now. Encouraging cheating seems to be the norm currently. If ya ain’t cheating…
 

Every P5 team has more than enough money to pay travel expenses to send a guy to check out the upcoming opponents live in-person.

Absolutely silly rule. Just like not being allowed to feed players was.


Correct solution: allow green dot helmets and do away with signaling.
 




Your background is military espionage and you leave a paper trail for the purchase of tickets?
Didn't know it was a violation of the rules or just really dumb?
And no disguise either :)
 





Pompous Elitist said:
Assuming the anonymous sources are verifiable. If there is a paper trail of his purchase of tickets along with video evidence of occupants filming the game while on direct Michigan payroll or evidence of payments to Stalions while not on payroll we have the odd situation of evidence-supported allegations…wierd.

If legit then will the NCAA take action…this year or 3 years from now. Encouraging cheating seems to be the norm currently. If ya ain’t cheating…
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I have seen video on the internet of the ticket buyer standing on the Michigan sideline next to the DC calling plays after check with me’s
 

even if some think it's an odd rule or a picky rule - it is a rule. just like the invalid fair catch signal is a rule.

If you have rules, they need to be enforced, or they become meaningless.

so IF the B1G or the NCAA are presented with clear evidence that the rule on in-person scouting was violated, then some action has to be taken against Michigan. and under NCAA rules, the head coach is presumed to be responsible for everything that happens within his program.

of course, the question then becomes - what is an appropriate punishment/remedy for violating the rule?

(ps - in an above post, someone referred to a "lamented" sheet. I assume they meant "laminated," but Michigan may come to lament that sheet in the future.)
 



www.espn.com

Sources: U-M staffer bought tickets at 11 schools

Suspended Michigan staffer Connor Stalions, who is at the center of the NCAA's sign-stealing probe, purchased tickets in his own name for more than 30 games over the past three years at 11 different Big Ten schools, multiple sources told ESPN.
www.espn.com www.espn.com

The biggest take away is that they have video evidence of him filming the sidelines during those games
 



Would it be possible to sue the University of Michigan, harbaugh, and anybody associated w the football team for perpetuating a fraud. If you were a fan putting down money for tickets, meals, hotel rooms, and transit to and from the game (say about $1,000/fan), you would expect a competitive game, conducted fairly, even though Michigan was the clear favorite. you could live with your team getting beat if the contest was conducted fairly. Instead Michigan allegedly relied upon illegal means to gain an unfair advantage. We will never know if Minnesota could have won, or played competitively because that result was apparently influenced by these allegedly illegal actions. fans suffer actual financial loss because the outcome was influenced by these alleged illegal actions.
 
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The prez sez said:
I feel like suing the University of Michigan, harbaugh, and anybody associated w the football team for perpetuating a fraud. I was expecting a competitive game, even though Michigan was the clear favorite. I could live with my team getting beat if the contest was conducted fairly. Instead Michigan allegedly relied upon illegal means to gain an unfair advantage. We will never know if Minnesota could have won, or played competitively because that result was apparently influenced by these allegedly illegal actions. My damages include driving to the Twin Cities ($100), hotel room for two nights ($250), meals ($250), game tickets for 2 ($220), not to mention the fender bender and speeding ticket. OK I didn't go to the game, but my neighbor did and those his costs!
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Not the most insane thing I've heard. Get the right jurisdiction (MN and MI not ideal) and give it hell.
 

Some guy said:
All you have to do is make the optimal call for your team vs the team you’re about to see.

Call a screen vs a blitz
Call a trap coverage vs a pass combo

You don’t have to have all 11 players know the signals to get a serious benefit.
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Just need one sideline coach to know the offensive signals.
 



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