The NCAA has opened an investigation into No. 2 Michigan over possible rule-breaking around in-person scouting of opponents

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60's Guy said:
In the twitter and Big Ten world what happened to innocent until proven guilty?
Seems very likely the assistant coach violated the Big Ten's rules but doesn't there need to be some due process?
Michigan is saying other Big Ten schools shared reports in attempt to derail Michigan.
Harbaugh says he wasn't aware....it seems to me this is very much rushing to judgment because of the lynch mob mentality.
Not fair punishment to the players who had no participation whatsoever in anything knowingly.
Don't like Michigan or Harbaugh but it seems like a premature decision to penalize now and a wrong punishment for the situation.
The precedent has now been set...what outcry is the next one to be punished without any time for defense?
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We don't know what the Big Ten knows though. You're assuming it's a rush to judgment based only on what is publicly known.

And I'm not sure Harbaugh not knowing about it is a good thing either. He's the CEO, he should know if stuff like this is happening.
 

short ornery norwegian said:
OK - so Harbaugh can coach the team all week, help develop the game plan, work with the players, etc.

He just can't stand on the sideline during the game. Is that really a big penalty?

the only real impact is that someone else has to make a few key decisions during the game - go for it on 4th down instead of punting, when to use time-outs, etc.

the assistant coaches have worked with Harbaugh. they probably have a very good idea of how he would handle those situations.

Yes, having the Head Coach not there in person on Game Day could have a psychological affect on the team - or it could make the players even more motivated to "Win for Jim."

So in my book, this 'suspension' is more symbolic.

(because I suspect the B1G is well aware that the NCAA is doing its own investigation and in the end, the NCAA may be swinging a much bigger stick in terms of punishment.)
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I think it could affect them in a close game. If they would have totally barred him, I think that would be too severe - so they found a happy medium.

It’s more than I expected, so o a I’m presently surprised.
 

GophersInIowa said:
We don't know what the Big Ten knows though. You're assuming it's a rush to judgment based only on what is publicly known.

And I'm not sure Harbaugh not knowing about it is a good thing either. He's the CEO, he should know if stuff like this is happening.
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Regardless if he knew or not, he’s responsible.
 

60's Guy said:
In the twitter and Big Ten world what happened to innocent until proven guilty?
Seems very likely the assistant coach violated the Big Ten's rules but doesn't there need to be some due process?
Michigan is saying other Big Ten schools shared reports in attempt to derail Michigan.
Harbaugh says he wasn't aware....it seems to me this is very much rushing to judgment because of the lynch mob mentality.
Not fair punishment to the players who had no participation whatsoever in anything knowingly.
Don't like Michigan or Harbaugh but it seems like a premature decision to penalize now and a wrong punishment for the situation.
The precedent has now been set...what outcry is the next one to be punished without any time for defense?
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B10 is not a judicial entity; due process is a legal term IIRC. I’m sure they followed their bylaws, those govern organizations.

As a member they agree to a certain level of sportsmanship per the bylaws; if that is broken, they have the right and I would argue the duty to the other members to levy a punishment. If Michigan doesn’t like it, they can go to another conference.

Sherlock Holmes and Agatha Christie need not be consulted.
 
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short ornery norwegian said:
OK - so Harbaugh can coach the team all week, help develop the game plan, work with the players, etc.

He just can't stand on the sideline during the game. Is that really a big penalty?

the only real impact is that someone else has to make a few key decisions during the game - go for it on 4th down instead of punting, when to use time-outs, etc.

the assistant coaches have worked with Harbaugh. they probably have a very good idea of how he would handle those situations.

Yes, having the Head Coach not there in person on Game Day could have a psychological affect on the team - or it could make the players even more motivated to "Win for Jim."

So in my book, this 'suspension' is more symbolic.

(because I suspect the B1G is well aware that the NCAA is doing its own investigation and in the end, the NCAA may be swinging a much bigger stick in terms of punishment.)
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Dead on. Trying to play the middle and come up with as small of a punishment that will appease B1G coaches and AD’s. The end result is that nobody on either side will be happy.
 









Iceland12 said:
And Patrick's prediction that it would be announced two days ago was more along the "clickbait" line.
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My Michigan insider buddy initially said on Monday that he was hearing Wednesday as the day it was coming down, too (which I wrote in an earlier post), so I'm sure DP was reporting what he was hearing.
 



WindyCityGopher said:
My Michigan insider buddy initially said on Monday that he was hearing Wednesday as the day it was coming down, too (which I wrote in an earlier post), so I'm sure DP was reporting what he was hearing.
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Could be but over the last couple of weeks he's been reporting that "he's heard" there would be no punishment, that why the Big Ten had the authority to punish they'd ignore that and leave it to the NCAA investigation, that his source told him it would happen last week and that Michigan would ignore any punishment at all for Harbaugh.

That is a terrible track record for him and his source.
 

60's Guy said:
In the twitter and Big Ten world what happened to innocent until proven guilty?
Seems very likely the assistant coach violated the Big Ten's rules but doesn't there need to be some due process?
Michigan is saying other Big Ten schools shared reports in attempt to derail Michigan.
Harbaugh says he wasn't aware....it seems to me this is very much rushing to judgment because of the lynch mob mentality.
Not fair punishment to the players who had no participation whatsoever in anything knowingly.
Don't like Michigan or Harbaugh but it seems like a premature decision to penalize now and a wrong punishment for the situation.
The precedent has now been set...what outcry is the next one to be punished without any time for defense?
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It happened on his watch. He needs to be aware. But there's very little chance he wasn't aware. Very likely it was his idea.
 



Word said:
It happened on his watch. He needs to be aware. But there's very little chance he wasn't aware. Very likely it was his idea.
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I agree with you...it just seems premature to a completed investigation. And I don't like the chosen punishment in how it punishes the players who maybe unknowingly benefitted but certainly have no blame or responsibility in the idea.
 

60's Guy said:
I agree with you...it just seems premature to a completed investigation. And I don't like the chosen punishment in how it punishes the players who maybe unknowingly benefitted but certainly have no blame or responsibility in the idea.
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So if the Big 10 doesn't suspend Harbaugh now and he leaves for the NFL in January what other punishment recourse would the conference have?

If he's there for the entire week of prep time, I don't see how it's punishing the players. It might actually be a good motivator. They already won 3 games from his previous Time Out.

MplsGopher said:
Coaches and AD’s don’t have a seat at the big table. Sorry, they don’t. The commissioner is hired by and reports to the school presidents. What are they (coaches and AD’s) gonna do?? Quit?? Go ahead, walk off.


Petitti won’t look “weak”. That’s yours and media fake spin on it. Real strength is standing up to the bleating sheep. Go get back in the pen
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This take particularly didn't age well.
 

Two things that I don't think are getting enough discussion. First, this coach already served a suspension for disregarding rules this year, so it is reasonable that the powers that be don't want to give him the benefit of the doubt. Second, for all of Michigan's pearl clutching that they are victims of a commissioner out to get them, the structural incentives incent the B1G to bit do anything. From the conferences perspective, the best outcome would be that there was no wrong doing, and Michigan and OSU both go to the CFP. The conference office has no reason to be out to get one of their golden geese.
 

Ope3 said:
So if the Big 10 doesn't suspend Harbaugh now and he leaves for the NFL in January what other punishment recourse would the conference have?

If he's there for the entire week of prep time, I don't see how it's punishing the players. It might actually be a good motivator. They already won 3 games from his previous Time Out.


This take particularly didn't age well.
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If we are 100% sure Michigan is dirty...okay
But, what about giving Harbaugh the option...suspension or 3 one million dollar fines payable in advance of each game? Now he reveals his character and has the opportunity to get the money back on appeal. But suspending him does not go back into the toothpaste tube if some new evidence or circumstances are discovered..

They were not playing their money games in the first 3 games of the year. Penn St and Ohio St are not in the same stratosphere.
 

Jack jones said:
I admit I was wrong. I didn’t expect the B1G to take any action. Glad they did. Now will tomorrow’s game be affected without the big guy on the sideline? Now the biggest jerks coaching in the B1G won’t be able to shake hands. Who wins -- who cares?
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The lightest of slaps. So trivial it’s unlikely to deter or have any consequences on game day.

Now, suspend the entire coaching staff and you might have something. This is kind of a laughable non-punishment punishment.
 



60's Guy said:
If we are 100% sure Michigan is dirty...okay
But, what about giving Harbaugh the option...suspension or 3 one million dollar fines payable in advance of each game? Now he reveals his character and has the opportunity to get the money back on appeal. But suspending him does not go back into the toothpaste tube if some new evidence or circumstances are discovered..

They were not playing their money games in the first 3 games of the year. Penn St and Ohio St are not in the same stratosphere.
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From SportsCenter the Big 10 is "100% sure Michigan is dirty". I don't think Michigan is even denying it.

I'm not sure about the fining, if it's even an option.
 

highwayman said:
If you don’t know your civics, nobody wins. Ignorance is not a “class act”. Wow.
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Everyone makes mistakes, maybe take a look in the mirror, perhaps?

FYI - I had mail delivery today. So it’s not like all federal services were suspended- get it? Armistic/Veteran’s Day is on Saturday, 11/11.

Judging others over minor faux pas can be a way to make one feel better about themselves from my experience.

So when you’re perfect, lemme know champ🥴
 
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Gopher_In_NYC said:
You Gopher bias is showing
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I'd bet I'm in the great majority of football fans (college and NFL) who agree that Harbaugh's a d-bag, and it has nothing to do with me being a Gophers fan. Google "Is Jim Harbaugh a douchebag" and look at the long list of posts from all over the country. The consensus outside Michigan seems to be that Harbaugh is indeed a douchebag.
 

from what I'm following, in the various exchanges of letters and documents between Michigan and the B1G, Michigan is not denying that the in-person scouting took place. their argument is centered on "due process" and "reaching conclusions before all the facts are in."

in other words, Michigan is not claiming that they're innocent - they're just claiming that the B1G should not be handing down punishment until the NCAA investigation is completed. Which likely will not be until after the CFP playoffs are completed.

form you own conclusions as to why Michigan is adopting this strategy.
 

WindyCityGopher said:
I'd bet I'm in the great majority of football fans (college and NFL) who agree that Harbaugh's a d-bag, and it has nothing to do with me being a Gophers fan. Google "Is Jim Harbaugh a douchebag" and look at the long list of posts from all over the country. The consensus outside Michigan seems to be that Harbaugh is indeed a douchebag.
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I was joking around.

He’s not really my cup of tea either.

FWIW - I generally don’t try and affix labels to others, as I’m not fond of them myself.
 

You got me! You guys won.

Michigan received the death penalty, just like you guys were clamoring for.


Indeed, rather than properly waiting for the NCAA investigation to be concluded, the Big Ten took matters into its own hands, by grabbing a giant club and bashing Michigan with

huge monetary fi....
loss of schola....
loss of recruiting vis....
loss of reven....
ban from the conf championship ga....
ban from the CF....
ban from bow....
yearlong suspen....
three full weeks of no contact with the team suspen...

[puts on extra thick reading glasses, in order to read the fine print of the notes]

three weeks of the head coach not being able to ... be at the gameday venue on gamedays ... but otherwise literally zero restrictions.


.....

:ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO:
 

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