The Importance of Kick Returns

[EG#9]

Take the free 25-yd line every damn time. I mean, there's only like 3-4 bad things that can happen returning a KO and what, maybe one good one?

Injury, penalty, fumble, or just plain getting stopped short of the 25.... for the remote possibility of a few extra yards? Not smart

Take the free 25-yd line every damn time. I mean, there's only like 3-4 bad things that can happen returning a KO and what, maybe one good one?

Injury, penalty, fumble, or just plain getting stopped short of the 25.... for the remote possibility of a few extra yards? Not smart

I agree with this but only because Minnesota has shown no ability to do better than get to their 25. If/when they have a better special teams coordinator and/or better return guys then hopefully actually trying to return kicks is part of the arsenal...I just don't want to experiment with that in the last game of the regular season against the best team we've played since Ohio State.

On a related note can we please DEFER to the 2nd half if we win the toss? We know we are starting at the 25. A 3 and out and our Punter gives teams a shot to start with a short field. Not scoring on that drive, giving up points to the opposition on their opening drive...and then knowing they also get the ball to start the second half puts you in such a hole. I believe we chose to take the ball against Ohio State and Iowa and this exact situation happend in both games.

 

[highwayman]

So in 11 games did every team fair catch 3-7 kickoffs or do you think Penn St has a kicker who puts it in the end zone, as in unreturnable?

I was just putting an interesting stat out there for fun, and trying to see if you would still act like a child. Both accomplished.

 

[Gold Rush]

You get that a strong KO return is way more about the other 10 guys than the one running with the ball in his hands right?

Looking at Wisconsin's season stats they have tried to run back 16 kickoffs and with the one exception most of them have netted them no more than 20 yards on average.

Nobody would argue that a KO return TD is a huge play when it happens....but they don't happen very often, even for teams that like to try and return kicks.

Many teams are just fair catching kickoffs and taking the ball at the 25 these days.

It's not the kick off returns that bother me so much but not returning the punt returns is what gets me. To be fair, Annexstad has been returning some but it gets under my skin when there is nobody even close and we fair catch it -- or worse let it roll 20 yards. Those are free yards you are throwing away and you never know when you just might break one. Just a couple years ago Demetrious Douglas was a pretty big weapon back there - I think he averaged like 16 yards per return!

As far as kick returns, if everybody is fair catching them then teams aren't probably used to defending them. I would wait for the right opportunity and see if you can catch them napping. If you have an electrifying return man, it is putting the ball in their hands in open space which is a good thing. I don't have any problem fair catching them though if you don't have "that guy" and taking it 25 yards out.

 

[Word]

It's not the kick off returns that bother me so much but not returning the punt returns is what gets me. To be fair, Annexstad has been returning some but it gets under my skin when there is nobody even close and we fair catch it -- or worse let it roll 20 yards. Those are free yards you are throwing away and you never know when you just might break one. Just a couple years ago Demetrious Douglas was a pretty big weapon back there - I think he averaged like 16 yards per return!

As far as kick returns, if everybody is fair catching them then teams aren't probably used to defending them. I would wait for the right opportunity and see if you can catch them napping. If you have an electrifying return man, it is putting the ball in their hands in open space which is a good thing. I don't have any problem fair catching them though if you don't have "that guy" and taking it 25 yards out.

I agree with you and they seem to be allowing Annexstad to return punts now if there is space. Prior to a few games ago it seemed like he was told to never return them.

 

[MNVCGUY]

By the way, when you cite the average return (example Purdue 11 yards) are you saying they averaged starting from their 11 yard line or did they catch it at the 10 or 12 and get out to the 21-23?

No clue where they usually start drives but when they elect to return a kick they get on average 11 yards out of the return.

 

[MNVCGUY]

It's not the kick off returns that bother me so much but not returning the punt returns is what gets me. To be fair, Annexstad has been returning some but it gets under my skin when there is nobody even close and we fair catch it -- or worse let it roll 20 yards. Those are free yards you are throwing away and you never know when you just might break one. Just a couple years ago Demetrious Douglas was a pretty big weapon back there - I think he averaged like 16 yards per return!

As far as kick returns, if everybody is fair catching them then teams aren't probably used to defending them. I would wait for the right opportunity and see if you can catch them napping. If you have an electrifying return man, it is putting the ball in their hands in open space which is a good thing. I don't have any problem fair catching them though if you don't have "that guy" and taking it 25 yards out.

Returning Punts and returning kicks are two totally different conversations. I agree we could be more aggressive in returning punts but that said, catching punts is not easy and you have to have a ton of faith in your return man to give them the green light to go for a return. Maybe they are starting to develop that faith in Annexstad because it does seem like he has attempted a few more returns here recently.

 

[GFBfan]

It's not the kick off returns that bother me so much but not returning the punt returns is what gets me. To be fair, Annexstad has been returning some but it gets under my skin when there is nobody even close and we fair catch it -- or worse let it roll 20 yards. Those are free yards you are throwing away and you never know when you just might break one. Just a couple years ago Demetrious Douglas was a pretty big weapon back there - I think he averaged like 16 yards per return!

As far as kick returns, if everybody is fair catching them then teams aren't probably used to defending them. I would wait for the right opportunity and see if you can catch them napping. If you have an electrifying return man, it is putting the ball in their hands in open space which is a good thing. I don't have any problem fair catching them though if you don't have "that guy" and taking it 25 yards out.

Agree with what you have said here for the most part.
With punt returns, I don't like it when we don't catch it or even attempt to catch it and it rolls another 5 to 20 yards. Get up and fair catch the thing. I'd much rather have him fair catch everything than to catch a few and try to return or stand back and let the ball roll.

 

[RememberMurray]

Murr, why do teams try to kick in the end zone?

I don't know, Dak. Why do they? I guess both P.J. Fleck and I are too dumb to understand this stuff. We need a smart guy like you to (patiently) explain it to us.

 

[Ogee Ogilthorpe]

Agree with what you have said here for the most part.
With punt returns, I don't like it when we don't catch it or even attempt to catch it and it rolls another 5 to 20 yards. Get up and fair catch the thing. I'd much rather have him fair catch everything than to catch a few and try to return or stand back and let the ball roll.

This grinds me too. You have to field that ball, almost every time. It's not that hard, regardless of the punt. I don't even think it would be out of the question to have a deep returner and a mid-level less deep returner, for fielding the shorter punts. I don't think it's necessary, but if your deep guy can't read the punt from the punter fast enough, maybe that's what you have to do.

As others have said, I don't mind the punt fair catching on a lot of occasions, but not fielding those punts is just not a good deal.

 

[MNVCGUY]

This grinds me too. You have to field that ball, almost every time. It's not that hard, regardless of the punt. I don't even think it would be out of the question to have a deep returner and a mid-level less deep returner, for fielding the shorter punts. I don't think it's necessary, but if your deep guy can't read the punt from the punter fast enough, maybe that's what you have to do.

As others have said, I don't mind the punt fair catching on a lot of occasions, but not fielding those punts is just not a good deal.

The only issue I would take with your statement is that it's not that hard to catch punts. Granted these are D1 athletes but catching a punt is one of the tougher things to do in football and there is a reason why teams only seem to have a select few guys who can get it done and you see as many muffed punts as you do.

You have to catch an oddly shaped ball coming at a strange angle in full pads with a helmet on. At the same time you have to do this while knowing there are really strong, fast players running full speed in your direction ready to light you up if they get the chance.

All while knowing that if you make a mistake the other team is probably going to get the ball in great field position.

 

[Dakota2]

I was just putting an interesting stat out there for fun, and trying to see if you would still act like a child. Both accomplished.

Did they all fair catch or did kicks go into the end zone. Why is it an interesting stat to you if you don't comprehend what it means?

 

[Ogee Ogilthorpe]

The only issue I would take with your statement is that it's not that hard to catch punts. Granted these are D1 athletes but catching a punt is one of the tougher things to do in football and there is a reason why teams only seem to have a select few guys who can get it done and you see as many muffed punts as you do.

You have to catch an oddly shaped ball coming at a strange angle in full pads with a helmet on. At the same time you have to do this while knowing there are really strong, fast players running full speed in your direction ready to light you up if they get the chance.

All while knowing that if you make a mistake the other team is probably going to get the ball in great field position.

Maybe, kinda.... I get what you're saying, I guess it's all about reps? I worked with the specialists in college where I played and that meant fielding punts for the punters and catching 50-60 balls a day. It didn't take long and I was trying to catch them one-handed. I also could read the punt pretty well off the punters foot before too long. Sure, that's without a punt coverage team coming at you full steam, but when you know the coverage teams can't hit you, find the ball in the air and make a beeline for it and catch it. In a game decided so much on field position, the Gophers give up a lot of yards way more often than they should.

Like I said, maybe they should experiment with a short return guy along with the deep returner.

 

[Dakota2]

I don't know, Dak. Why do they? I guess both P.J. Fleck and I are too dumb to understand this stuff. We need a smart guy like you to (patiently) explain it to us.

Now that's the funniest post since 1950. Old Murray puts himself in the same sentence with P.J. Fleck. Yup, old Murr thinks he sits right there with Fleck, chatting about football and sharing the same thoughts and schemes.

No, Murray, both P.J. Fleck and you are not too dumb to understand this stuff. You are too dumb to understand this stuff. Fleck understands it the fine.

Fleck understands what every college coach understands. The kicking team wants to prevent a return. Period. A return is dangerous for the kicking team. There are two ways to stop the kickoff return. One, kick the ball into the end zone. Tried and true effective. Two, hope like hell the other coach will give up the opportunity to return a short kick and fair catch instead. You dodge a bullet when that happens.

Nobody tries to kickoff short of the endzone. Because, very simply, the objective is to PREVENT a return, not encourage it. If coaches saw a huge advantage in the other team running back kickoffs they would instruct their kickoff man to try to kick to the five or ten and sucker them into returning it.

There have been only 181 kickoffs returned in the league so far because almost all of the rest sailed into the end zone and were unreturnable. Only a very small handful of kickoffs traveling only to the five or ten yard line have been fair caught for the simple reason it is a stupid thing to do. Unfortunately, Minnesota has several of those.

Dragon Kesich is a weapon. We are lucky to have him. This year he has forced the other team to start on the 25 on nearly all kickoffs. That is Fleck's goal when we are kicking. Don't allow a runback.

 

[GFBfan]

The only issue I would take with your statement is that it's not that hard to catch punts. Granted these are D1 athletes but catching a punt is one of the tougher things to do in football and there is a reason why teams only seem to have a select few guys who can get it done and you see as many muffed punts as you do.

You have to catch an oddly shaped ball coming at a strange angle in full pads with a helmet on. At the same time you have to do this while knowing there are really strong, fast players running full speed in your direction ready to light you up if they get the chance.

All while knowing that if you make a mistake the other team is probably going to get the ball in great field position.

All very true, that is why fair catching all of them(except those destined to roll into the end zone) would be better. No need to worry about anyone lighting you up, you just have to concentrate on catching the ball.

 

[GFBfan]

Dragon Kesich is a weapon. We are lucky to have him. This year he has forced the other team to start on the 25 on nearly all kickoffs. That is Fleck's goal when we are kicking. Don't allow a runback.

Why is that the goal?

 

[Dakota2]

Why is that the goal?

Because it is regarded as the best outcome when you kick off. The outcome all coaches want to avoid is a returnable kick. That is knowledge coaches have gained through decades of experience.

 

[GFBfan]

Because it is regarded as the best outcome when you kick off. The outcome all coaches want to avoid is a returnable kick. That is knowledge coaches have gained through decades of experience.

When a team kicks it short, having our player fair catch it goes against this philosophy.

 

[Dakota2]

When a team kicks it short, having our player fair catch it goes against this philosophy.

Exactly correct.