The Gophers historically/moving forward

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My original point was that the U of M does have significant basketball history; part of that history is that they are one of the oldest NCAA basketball programs in the nation. Those first five years of the program were hardly comparable to the 30+ game schedules of today; over the first five years of the program, the Gophers won either 23 or 27 games total, or somewhere around 5 wins per season. (the data from sports-reference.com and wikipedia is not consistent). I'd trade those 23/27 wins for the well over 100 wins vacated during Clem's era.
 

coolhandgopher said:
if you choose to use the data that wipes away the records vacated from Gangelgate they rank #50 in all-time wins
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Actually, that's incorrect.

The #50 ranking includes *all* of Clem's wins. It appears to omit only the '76-'77 season.
 

coolhandgopher said:
My original point was that the U of M does have significant basketball history; part of that history is that they are one of the oldest NCAA basketball programs in the nation. Those first five years of the program were hardly comparable to the 30+ game schedules of today; over the first five years of the program, the Gophers won either 23 or 27 games total, or somewhere around 5 wins per season. (the data from sports-reference.com and wikipedia is not consistent). I'd trade those 23/27 wins for the well over 100 wins vacated during Clem's era.
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As I watched the end of the Florida State - Cincy game last night, I couldn't help but think of one thing:

FSU Coach Leonard Hamilton is the spitting image of Major "Bunny" Colvin. Can't tell me any different.
 

I'll say it again, anything acheived through cheating should not be considered an acheivement. Ya blah blah blah all top programs cheat, but if you get caught you have to deal with the consequences.
 

zambam said:
I'll say it again, anything acheived through cheating should not be considered an acheivement. Ya blah blah blah all top programs cheat, but if you get caught you have to deal with the consequences.
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The unsaid implication is that cheating is good and preferred, but you have to do it well enough to not get caught. Count me out for that line of thinking.
 



supadupafly said:
let me know when this thread actually becomes interesting and/or worth reading. i.e. once it becomes more than a bunch of often cynical, stat geeks trying to one up each other by bringing up the same beaten-like-a-dead-horse points and stuff from the long ago past over and over and over and over and over again. not sure about others, but really these kinds of threads turn into one big YAWN. :rolleyes:
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So you want us to let you know when people stop using facts?
 

coolhandgopher said:
And actually, it is very reasonable for a Gopher fan to expect to finish in the top 5 of the conference. Here's the data since the Big Ten officially became a conference:
Since 1906:
107 seasons/54 seasons with 5th place or above finish: 51% in top half of Big Ten*
Since 1939 (NCAA tourney era):
74 seasons/38 seasons above 5th place: 51% in top half of Big Ten

If you want to discard the seasons abandoned by the NCAA (1977; 1993-99), we lop 7 upper division finishes from each total above:
All-time: 44%
Since '39: 42%
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I think it comes down to how often you're expecting the finishes. If it's every season, then that's unreasonable from a historical perspective. If it's every other season, then you're at least consistent with the all time numbers (though they include the Clem years which I think you have to throw out).
 

If over the next 10 years, the Gophers finished in the top half of the conference during five of those seasons, I would be quite pleased; given recent trends it would be reasonable to expect NCAA tourney experiences those years also.
 



Nice post coolhandgopher. Lots of good points. However, the fact that Minnesota is # 14 on the ESPN/Sagarin All-Time Rankings is a little flawed. They're still behind 6 other B1G teams on the list. That makes one think that the fact Minnesota is #14 is a direct correlation with playing in a tough conference; not so much correlated with individual team success. The list helps prove the point that the Gophers are typically the 7th or 8th best program in the B1G.
 


savagerube said:
Nice post coolhandgopher. Lots of good points. However, the fact that Minnesota is # 14 on the ESPN/Sagarin All-Time Rankings is a little flawed. They're still behind 6 other B1G teams on the list. That makes one think that the fact Minnesota is #14 is a direct correlation with playing in a tough conference; not so much correlated with individual team success. The list helps prove the point that the Gophers are typically the 7th or 8th best program in the B1G.
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Well...................
If the Gophers hadn't spent so much time in such a difficult conference, including 7 of the top 14 programs of all time (according to that number), then they'd have, going back to BGF's flawed "logic":
1. More wins
2. More conference championships
3. More NCAA tournament appearances and wins
3a. Possibly more Final Four appearances due to 3.
3b. Possibly more National Championships due to 3.
4. More Conference tournament wins
5. More Conference tournament championships
6. A higher winning percentage
7. etc. etc. etc.

This is why WHO you play matters, and thus, the ESPN/Sagarin listing of the Gophers as #14 when they don't match that number in typical categories. You are correct, the Sagarin ratings are a direct reflection of their tough competition. And the Gophers are typically ~#6 to #8 in the B1G, historically. Both are correct. I was under the impression that these things are kind of obvious...
 




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