The Good, The Bad and The Interesting: The Gophers 2014 Recruiting Class Edition

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The Good, The Bad and The Interesting: The Gophers 2014 Recruiting Class Edition
By zipsofakron

http://www.gopherhole.com/news_article/show/310230?referrer_id=388419

Ahhh, National Signing Day. Where the grass always looks slightly less brown, the sky is marginally less cloudy and it seems just a few degrees warmer outside. Signing Day for the Gophers in recent years has been hit and miss. There have been some nice pick-ups, but also some guys who made you double check exactly where they came from and if they’re likely to redshirt or not. Honestly, it can be hard to get excited about a three-star small forward who is likely to redshirt the following season. Fortunately, this year is not one of those years.

When Richard Pitino came to town it was unclear exactly what we should expect from him in the recruiting department. Tubby had done a solid job of recruiting in-state talent but left something to be desired when it came to landing the top talent everyone clamored for. And with perhaps the most nationally relevant recruiting class coming out of Minnesota in 2014, the stakes were high. Not only that, with four scholarships available in 2014 for the Gophers, building out the program with solid recruits was a must.

Turning over a coaching staff has its benefits and drawbacks. One of those drawbacks is basically starting from scratch with recruits left from the previous staff, while quickly developing relationships with new ones. And for Pitino, he had to jump into the fray and recruit players capable of handling themselves in the Big Ten; a far different task than getting guys to go to Florida International. Suffice to say, he’s done a better job both being in the conversation with nationally-recognized players and landing legitimate talent right out the gate than many would have expected. And with the deck stacked against him, he did an admirable job of securing guys they wanted without reaching. Who is Minnesota’s 2014 class so far?

Nate Mason, a 5’11 combo guard out of Georgia who also considered Virginia and Kansas State
Josh Martin, a 6’8 power forward from Seattle who also considered Florida State and Pitt
Carlos “Squirrel” Morris, a 6’4 shooting guard from Chipola Junior College in Florida, who also considered Arkansas and UAB and was even once committed to South Carolina.

Looking at the schools these players decided to forego, it’s comforting to know that even coming into the game late, Pitino secured commitments against schools of a similar caliber (except UAB). And as a jumping-off point for his first class, it’s a fine position to be in.

This year’s signing period is solidly in the “good” category for the program. But with the peaks also came some valleys. How did it shape up?

GOOD:

Three recruits … and no reaches –
It’s one thing to get recruits in the fall signing period. It’s quite another to get recruits who were actually on your list of people to go after. Not that Martin, Morris and Mason are blue chippers on the level of Minnesota’s Big Three, but they are still recruits that the Gophers showed clear interest in and weren’t forced in offering. To me that’s probably the biggest takeaway from the recruiting period – that Richard Pitino came into town ice cold on the recruiting front and was able to drum up enough cache where legitimate recruits not only took him seriously, but also committed their future to the program. After the coaching change I had low expectations for Pitino initially on the recruiting front, for no other reason than it’s extremely difficult to come in and make up ground on similar programs who had their recruiting activities going on for far longer. The success so far is a special thing.

BAD:

The Big Three, now down to The Big One?
– With Reid Travis choosing to become a tree rather than a Gopher, and with Tyus Jones all but assured to go somewhere other than Minnesota, it’s appears that the remaining chance for the Gophers to land one of the original Big Three rests with Rashad Vaughn. Of course, he no longer lives or plays in-state, but we still consider him one of the blue chippers the program has coveted for so long. The Gophers still appear to be very much in the running for Vaughn’s services (along with Iowa State and UNLV), but where he ends up is still anyone’s guess. The Travis miss hurts the most, though, only because it seemed that he was the best chance the team had to land one of the Big Three. And while you can’t fault the kid for taking a free ride to Stanford, seeing him stay home would have been a huge boon to the program.

INTERESTING:

Out of the gate, Pitino apparently has recruiting chops – College basketball recruiting is a real life soap opera, and predicting where anyone will actually end up is often a fool’s errand. However, what’s struck me the most since Richard Pitino took over is just how seriously many recruits took him. Minnesota was on the final list of several high-profile recruits this summer and, while he was unable to land anyone, Richard definitely got the program some exposure out of the gate.

To me, the point isn’t that he was unable to land some highly regarded players, it’s that the Gophers were even in the conversation after upending the program at the coaching level. For a 31-year old coach to come into a completely new program and even get in the door with some of these players is incredible, and to be part of the final two or three schools on a list is even more amazing. It’s light years ahead of where I thought we’d be on the recruiting trail at this point, and if Pitino can show growth in his first year he’ll be in great position to actually start closing the deal with some great players. And with commitments of guys like Alex Illikainen, Henry Ellenson and Jarvis Johnson right around the corner, having Pitino show that he can be a force on the recruiting trail is a very interesting development.
 

I think this is a good summary.

At one point, I was starting to wonder if he was actually trying to set the bar too high? Clearly, recruiting the kids from Minnesota was a no-brainer. But was time spent on Whitehead/Newton/Perkins/Snider/other 5 star talent time well spent or should he have lowered the bar a little and really focused on that next wave of talent (Baldwin/Martin/Colson/Lachance/others)? I must admit that I was getting nervous that we would miss out on the second tier and need to "settle" on the third or fourth wave.

Now I would probably say that we had the best of both worlds. I don't think the recruits we signed were "reaches" as the author points out. Also, we did get a bunch of publicity going after and making inroads with recruits that we typically wouldn't have been in the discussion.
 

Nice work on the write up.

I like this class and think we still add two more if Vaughn comes aboard. I'd like to see a juco big guy in addition to Vaughn. Pitino has the nice luxury of being able to showcase his uptempo system with a great group of guards which will be a great help in terms of landing the next group.
 

good read. this is a solid class. i saw ryan james compared josh martin to miles tarver on twitter today, i think martin has a much more complete game, better handle on the ball and more offensive skill. hopefully martin is better about not stealing handicap parking passes, fighting with the Filipino national team in exhibition games and better at doing his own work.
 

good read. this is a solid class. i saw ryan james compared josh martin to miles tarver on twitter today, i think martin has a much more complete game, better handle on the ball and more offensive skill. hopefully martin is better about not stealing handicap parking passes, fighting with the Filipino national team in exhibition games and better at doing his own work.

Miles Tarver was a beanpole who couldn't hit the rim with a shot when he arrived but developed himself into a player other teams hated-especially on the boards. I hope Martin is a lot more polished coming in- but with the same toughness.
 


Miles Tarver was a beanpole who couldn't hit the rim with a shot when he arrived but developed himself into a player other teams hated-especially on the boards. I hope Martin is a lot more polished coming in- but with the same toughness.

In Tarver's first couple years, every time he'd catch the ball the crowd would hold their breath because they were worried he'd either shoot or turn it over. He couldn't even dribble. Martin is a different deal altogether.
 

Nice write up. Maybe I am in the minority, but I was not impressed with the recruiting job. Being mentioned by recruits is about exciting to me as having that hot girl tell me in college that she wouldn't consider me unless hell froze over. "So you're sayin' there's a chance!" Frankly, I was expecting more from what I heard about how good Pitino was at recruiting.
 

Nice write up. Maybe I am in the minority, but I was not impressed with the recruiting job. Being mentioned by recruits is about exciting to me as having that hot girl tell me in college that she wouldn't consider me unless hell froze over. "So you're sayin' there's a chance!" Frankly, I was expecting more from what I heard about how good Pitino was at recruiting.

I tend to agree with you. I'm not impressed, but I'm not unimpressed. I think the class is fairly average. But it is a decent haul for a guy six months on the job.
 

Nice write up. Maybe I am in the minority, but I was not impressed with the recruiting job. Being mentioned by recruits is about exciting to me as having that hot girl tell me in college that she wouldn't consider me unless hell froze over. "So you're sayin' there's a chance!" Frankly, I was expecting more from what I heard about how good Pitino was at recruiting.

You fail to understand the situation he was put in. Wait until 2015 when he has a season to show recruits how his team plays and more than 6 months to develop valuable relationships.
 



I tend to agree with you. I'm not impressed, but I'm not unimpressed. I think the class is fairly average. But it is a decent haul for a guy six months on the job.
I guess, and maybe it is not fair, but Tubby had a pretty good class in his first 6 months here. Of course, he had a track record before coming here, so not apples to apples. But, I can look at the class Collins brought in at Northwestern as a comparison and they have probably the best class they have ever seen.
 

I also must say I am not blown away with this recruiting class. Now before everyone gets defensive hear me out. We didnt have a bad class because it wasnt long ago then Martin was a 4 * on ESPN. Mason and Morris look like solid additions and Mason maybe will be another Hollins type player which would be great. With that all said this program was coming off a run to the second round of the NCAA tourny and still had a couple solid parts coming back. Its not like Pitino was taking over a 10 win team that had no talent. Now I also know these kids have a full high school season to play to increase rankings and excitement for them but I was hoping for a little more. We still have one spot available if that goes to someone like Vaughn or another solid player this class looks even better. So I am not upset with this class they got some talent but I was hoping to be wowed and I am not at this time.
 

In Tarver's first couple years, every time he'd catch the ball the crowd would hold their breath because they were worried he'd either shoot or turn it over. He couldn't even dribble. Martin is a different deal altogether.

+1
 

I also must say I am not blown away with this recruiting class. Now before everyone gets defensive hear me out. We didnt have a bad class because it wasnt long ago then Martin was a 4 * on ESPN. Mason and Morris look like solid additions and Mason maybe will be another Hollins type player which would be great. With that all said this program was coming off a run to the second round of the NCAA tourny and still had a couple solid parts coming back. Its not like Pitino was taking over a 10 win team that had no talent. Now I also know these kids have a full high school season to play to increase rankings and excitement for them but I was hoping for a little more. We still have one spot available if that goes to someone like Vaughn or another solid player this class looks even better. So I am not upset with this class they got some talent but I was hoping to be wowed and I am not at this time.

Objectively, put yourself in the shoes of a kid who isn't from here and didn't grow up a fan. Imagine committing to someone who has been a head coach for 1 year and has been coaching in the Big Ten for 0 years when you have offers from big time programs with established coaches? Not very realistic, is it? The fact that we were on final lists for so many high level players under those circumstances speaks volumes about Pitino IMO. Wait until he has a year of experience and can actually show rectuits how we play. 2015 is the year we really see what Pitino and the rest of the staff are made of when it comes to recruiting.
 



I guess, and maybe it is not fair, but Tubby had a pretty good class in his first 6 months here. Of course, he had a track record before coming here, so not apples to apples. But, I can look at the class Collins brought in at Northwestern as a comparison and they have probably the best class they have ever seen.

A bit of comparison:

Pitino's fall signing period: 2 Preps (neither in Rivals Top 150); 1 Juco
Collins' fall signing period: 4 Preps (one, Vic Law #86 Rivals; none of the others in Rivals Top 150)
Tubby's fall class, 2007-08: 3 Preps (RSIII #59, Joseph #61, Iverson #137), 2 Jucos (Carter, Bostick)

No question, Tubby came out blazing in that first recruiting class; a great deal of positive energy was present with the Gopher program at the inception of the Tubby era and it certainly swept over into recruiting that first year. He also was at the job a year in advance of when the last elite MN Preps (Royce White & Rodney Williams) were making their college decisions.

Saying that Collins has probably brought in Northwestern's best class is like saying Bad Boys is probably Michael Bay's best movie; it's all very relative. Collins certainly did well in getting Vic Law to commit; it should be noted that Law committed on July 4, roughly 3 months after Collins' was hired. While the new coach certainly did plenty to bring him on board, it seems likely that Law was feeling pretty positive about Northwestern in advance of Collins' hiring. And while Law is a really solid get for Northwestern, on several levels, he's not of the caliber that the "Big 3" and fending off the likes of Georgia Tech, Illinois, Florida St is not on the same level as competing for recruits against Duke, Kansas, and Stanford (overall, not just basketball).
 

It's fair to say that if Martin, Mason and Squirrel have good seasons that they could be upgraded by recruiting services to 4 star (or more) ratings. I'm not impressed by ratings by recruiting services as much as how they actually compete. With that said, I'd like to have three 5-star recruits every year. :)
 

Important to add that Monson came out blazing in his first class, too: Rickert, Holmann, Hargrow, Robinson. In my opinion, he wasn't able to sustain it in great part because he and his staff failed to show they could develop talent and coach it to its potential. In a similar way Tubby had the same problem. I thought he had decent recruits, but to this day none of them have played a minute in the NBA. To me that means that he didn't develop them or that they weren't as good all around as they were rated. In contrast - and I've said this many times - Clem recruited an average of about one NBA participant per year during his tenure.
 

Important to add that Monson came out blazing in his first class, too: Rickert, Holmann, Hargrow, Robinson. In my opinion, he wasn't able to sustain it in great part because he and his staff failed to show they could develop talent and coach it to its potential. In a similar way Tubby had the same problem. I thought he had decent recruits, but to this day none of them have played a minute in the NBA. To me that means that he didn't develop them or that they weren't as good all around as they were rated. In contrast - and I've said this many times - Clem recruited an average of about one NBA participant per year during his tenure.

Well with Rouce White it's obviously not a lack of talent that is keeping him from playing in the NBA, and Colt got drafted, plus Andre and Austin Hollins likely still have a shot as well.
 

You fail to understand the situation he was put in. Wait until 2015 when he has a season to show recruits how his team plays and more than 6 months to develop valuable relationships.

I think our current players will become a great recruiting tool. From what I hear they really like Pitino and how he teaches.
 

I like the article zips. I think his classes are going to get better and this group will turn out fine. It isn't over yet.
 

Really interesting discussion, I wish I would have clicked on this thread earlier. I really enjoyed the piece by zipsofakron, even if I don't wholeheartedly agree with his conclusion "this year's signing period is solidly in the "good" category for the program".

I think where many differences of opinion lie is in the expectations for Pitino in his first "real" class. Zips was of the perspective that Coach Pitino was so far behind the 8 ball with the 2014 class that landing 3 solid recruits deserved a "good" under the circumstances. My own opinion is a large part of the reason Coach Pitino was hired to a major college job at his age was his ability to recruit. My own expectations for Pitino were to find a way to land one of the big three in state kids and land an out of state kid somewhere in the top 100. Given the variety of schools who have landed a top 100 kid this year (and in recent years), I didn't think that was setting the bar too high even given his late start on the class. Coach Pitino still has a chance to land one of the big three and get a very good grade from me for his first class. I am of the same mindset as BGA as I would love to round out this class with Vaughn and a JUCO big (or 5th year transfer).

I was very impressed with Pitino's ability to get "in" on a vast number of top rated prospects around the country. I don't know how to value that in gauging my own feelings about Pitino's first class. It's certainly great to be mentioned, but we only got Lourawls Nairn to visit.

One of the aspects of this initial class that was of interest to me is that it appeared that Dan McHale was the lead recruiter on all 3 players who signed LOI's. It didn't appear that Kimani Young had the desired impact on the recruiting trail, at least initially. With the '14 class, I thought Ben Johnson would likely be the lead guy on the local commit with Kimani bringing in an East Coast kid.

The bottom line is I like all three kids, I was just hoping for a little more. I think there is good reason to expect the recruiting to only improve next year, which is reason for excitement.
 


A bit of comparison:

Pitino's fall signing period: 2 Preps (neither in Rivals Top 150); 1 Juco
Collins' fall signing period: 4 Preps (one, Vic Law #86 Rivals; none of the others in Rivals Top 150)
Tubby's fall class, 2007-08: 3 Preps (RSIII #59, Joseph #61, Iverson #137), 2 Jucos (Carter, Bostick)

No question, Tubby came out blazing in that first recruiting class; a great deal of positive energy was present with the Gopher program at the inception of the Tubby era and it certainly swept over into recruiting that first year. He also was at the job a year in advance of when the last elite MN Preps (Royce White & Rodney Williams) were making their college decisions.

Saying that Collins has probably brought in Northwestern's best class is like saying Bad Boys is probably Michael Bay's best movie; it's all very relative. Collins certainly did well in getting Vic Law to commit; it should be noted that Law committed on July 4, roughly 3 months after Collins' was hired. While the new coach certainly did plenty to bring him on board, it seems likely that Law was feeling pretty positive about Northwestern in advance of Collins' hiring. And while Law is a really solid get for Northwestern, on several levels, he's not of the caliber that the "Big 3" and fending off the likes of Georgia Tech, Illinois, Florida St is not on the same level as competing for recruits against Duke, Kansas, and Stanford (overall, not just basketball).

Actually Law had no interest in attending NU while Carmody was the coach. His father said Carmody was stand-offish and someone who made Law feel like it was a privilege to be offered by NU. There was little chance Law would have signed with NU if Carmody had stayed on. The other 3 NU recruits are similar in quality to the Gophers' recruits but Law gives NU a big edge. That can be negated by the Vaughn signing with the Gophers of course. Collins and Pitino will be compared with each other for a long time because they are the sons of great coaches, are both young and arrived in the B1G at the same time.
 

I wonder if some of this disappointment is due to the fact that we did "dance" with many of the elite recruits but didn't close the deal on any of them.

If we weren't in the top five of Whitehead/Newton/Perkins/Travis/Nairn/many others, would people feel this way? Some of the predictions on GH a few months back were Kentucky-like and frankly, just not reasonable given many of the circumstances here, first year coach, etc.

I think an 8th place class in the Big Ten was probably about my expectation (not great, but not a train wreck either), with the biggest recruit still out there. I just think we need to be honest with ourselves about where Minnesota basketball is right now. That being said, I'm still very excited about the future.
 

I think you underestimate where this program is or should be. Tubby didn't get fired because he didn't win he got fired for not winning enought with the talent he had. If this was a Tubby recruiting class we would be lighting him up. No one is saying this class is bad we were expecting and hoping for more. Pitino isn't taking over a team that one 5 games last year he is taking over a team that was in the second round of the NCAA tournament.
 

Pitino isn't taking over a team that one 5 games last year he is taking over a team that was in the second round of the NCAA tournament.

he is? oh. i thought he was taking over a team that lost three starters from the team that went to the ncaa tournament.
 

The bottom line is I like all three kids, I was just hoping for a little more.

There's no question the coaching staff feels the same way. If the reports are true, they thought they had Travis and were crushed when he changed his mind. Close only counts in horseshoes and hand grenades, but it's more than worth noting that they were within that whisker of an outstanding class. And they're still squarely in the mix for five-star Vaughn.
 

Pitino's 2013 "class" looks pretty good too, and would've been outstanding had the NCAA not f'd it up.
 

I think you underestimate where this program is or should be. Tubby didn't get fired because he didn't win he got fired for not winning enought with the talent he had. If this was a Tubby recruiting class we would be lighting him up. No one is saying this class is bad we were expecting and hoping for more. Pitino isn't taking over a team that one 5 games last year he is taking over a team that was in the second round of the NCAA tournament.

Wolf -- I'm going to agree with a couple of your points and respectfully disagree with a couple others.

Clearly the cupboard isn't completely bare, nor have most people indicated as much. However, one tournament victory in the last six years isn't exactly a basketball juggernaut. They have been a middle to lower tier Big Ten program through much of the last two coaching tenures. I don't think that is under-evaluating where the program has been. Then you throw in the typical limitations that many perceive -- terrible facilities, weather, very limited tournament success, etc etc -- and you have a middle to lower tier Big Ten program expectation. I absolutely think it could change with the right coach and an upgrade in facilities. But, one win last year over a team that had just lost its best (or second best) player with a coach about to get fired doesn't change my overall perception of where we are at.

Enter Pitino -- a coach with a nice lineage but very little experience. I'm not sure how we could expect to see a dramatic increase in recruiting in six months time. I'm just happy that we didn't see a step backward. I would actually argue that this class is better than all but two of Tubby's classes (highly subjective, I acknowledge) -- a coach with a much longer history to draw from. So I would argue this was actually a small step forward.
 

Pitino's 2013 "class" looks pretty good too, and would've been outstanding had the NCAA not f'd it up.

I'm trying to erase the Buckles situation from my memory. He is exactly what this team needed. But to your point, this team would be in alot worse shape had Pitino not of gotten Mathieu here.
 

I'm trying to erase the Buckles situation from my memory. He is exactly what this team needed. But to your point, this team would be in alot worse shape had Pitino not of gotten Mathieu here.

Tubby didn't have another point guard coming in here. Can you imagine Andre starting at the 1 with Mav backing him up? I guess that WAS the situation last year, but that team had more weapons to take the scoring burden off Dre.
 




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