The future of our front 7....

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Bob_Loblaw

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I was just starting to think of all of the talented young DT, DE, and LBs Brewster has added to this program and I am extremely excited. I have heard that Hageman, Jacques, and KGM have done nothing but impress.

My question....who do you guys think will be the front runners for the DE positions?

I personally think that when the dust settles it will be Hageman and KGM (with Wilhite and possibly Garin seeing action on passing plays).
 

Don't forget Jacobs.

These guys are going to be scary good. maybe not next year, though they could be, but for sure the year after.

Starting next year at DE, Jacobs and Wilhite.
 

Every gopher fan should be excited about these guys. I really like Whilhite and Tinsley.
 

Jacobs doesn't look like anything special to me. Fans always hyped him up but he has that weird type where he looks like Delmon Young out there. He also looks very soft to me. Maybe if he bulks up and gets MUCH stronger but he really did nothing to impress me.

Edwards is in a similar situation, not so much body type, but he looks soft and needs to work VERY hard if he is ever going to get better.
 

Schnoodler said:
Don't forget Jacobs.

These guys are going to be scary good. maybe not next year, though they could be, but for sure the year after.

Starting next year at DE, Jacobs and Wilhite.
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Yeah, I just have always sort of thought that Jacobs would be a DT this season. We really like to rotate those guys. That could obviously be presumptious of myself, and in that case, I agree, Jacobs will be starting at DE.

I also really like Wilhite, I just think of him more in passing situations, so I thought we would probably start the stockier KGM (mostly because our LBs are small). But in all honesty, it probably doesn't matter who the "starters" are, I expect KGM, Wilhite and Hageman to all get a lot of reps (possibly Garin as well).
 


Does anyone think it would be a little too soon to invest in a #4 jersey? I'm seriously considering it.

On a side note, corporations like Nike still custom make college jerseys, right?
 

Bob_Loblaw said:
Yeah, I just have always sort of thought that Jacobs would be a DT this season. We really like to rotate those guys. That could obviously be presumptious of myself, and in that case, I agree, Jacobs will be starting at DE.

I also really like Wilhite, I just think of him more in passing situations, so I thought we would probably start the stockier KGM (mostly because our LBs are small). But in all honesty, it probably doesn't matter who the "starters" are, I expect KGM, Wilhite and Hageman to all get a lot of reps (possibly Garin as well).
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I don't know what to think about Jacobs at DT. What's better average sized DT's with great speed, or big DE's with slightly above average speed? His pursuit seems good, and so I kind of like that in a DE, but I don't have a read on Burst which would seem critical if he's to use his speed as a DT.

I think though given our lack of experienced depth at DE, they might keep him there. He didn't really get much playing time until later in the year and his numbers came out OK. So they may be relying on him to start at the beginning of the year. Which kinda makes a switch useless if they don't do it this spring.
 

Schnoodler said:
Don't forget Jacobs.

These guys are going to be scary good. maybe not next year, though they could be, but for sure the year after.

Starting next year at DE, Jacobs and Wilhite.
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I think we'll see Wilhite starting at one DE spot but I'm hoping either Hageman or KGM are ready to start at the other because Jacobs didn't show the ability to get to the QB this year. I'd like to see Jacobs move inside to DT which would help improve our DT depth and hopefully our speed off the edge.

I don't think Garin looks big enough yet to be the other answer at DE but he could be big enough to play OLB in a 3-4.
 

grunkiejr said:
I think we'll see Wilhite starting at one DE spot but I'm hoping either Hageman or KGM are ready to start at the other because Jacobs didn't show the ability to get to the QB this year. I'd like to see Jacobs move inside to DT which would help improve our DT depth and hopefully our speed off the edge.

I don't think Garin looks big enough yet to be the other answer at DE but he could be big enough to play OLB in a 3-4.
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Of course I respect your opinion Grunk, but I'm thinking though that even though it might seem to make sense it's a bit of a gamble with unproven freshmen at DE. Plus given that Jacobs will be a Junior they kind of have to make the switch this spring to make it impactful. The timing doesn't seem to fit the move.

We have two starters at DT and so until Jacobs does something there we're talking about him being a two deep, meanwhile we elevate our freshmen into starters and two and three deeps at DE. I think Jacobs' future gets sacrificed in the name of 'bird in the hand' and balance. Either way, I like the talent lurking.
 



Brewster said Hageman has been working hard with Coach Hill, he is now at 290. He also raved about Olson at 6'7 and 300.
 

Schnoodler said:
Of course I respect your opinion Grunk, but I'm thinking though that even though it might seem to make sense it's a bit of a gamble with unproven freshmen at DE. Plus given that Jacobs will be a Junior they kind of have to make the switch this spring to make it impactful. The timing doesn't seem to fit the move.

We have two starters at DT and so until Jacobs does something there we're talking about him being a two deep, meanwhile we elevate our freshmen into starters and two and three deeps at DE. I think Jacobs' future gets sacrificed in the name of 'bird in the hand' and balance. Either way, I like the talent lurking.
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I agree with you but call it wishful thinking on my part.

IMO a big part of the struggle on 3rd down this year was the lack of pressure w/out blitzing and that falls primarily on the DE. Because of that I'm hoping the youngsters are ready to step in and play. I've heard good things about Hageman & KGM but that could mean a lot things from they'll be ready to start next year to they'll be good as upperclassmen.

If I had to put a bet on it I would say Wilhite & Jacobs start in game #1 and we work the younger guys in to the mix over the course of the season--similar to the way Wilhite and Carter were brought along this season.

I'm not sure if it will happen in 2010 but longer term I think Jacobs (and eventually Hageman for that matter) will be better at DT than DE and he could be a dominant Kirksey type DT. IMO 300 lbs is just too big for a DE and I prefer the 6-3 to 6-6 and 250 lbs to 265 lbs. Our DL this year was basically 4 285-310 lb DT's which says a lot about why our DE's didn't get many sacks. DE to DT is probably the easiest transition on the field so I'm not at all worried about Jacobs transitioning over at the beginning or middle of the year if the RsFr DE's are ready to contribute. We could do it so that Jacobs is at SDE on 1st & 2nd down and then moves over to NT (for Edwards) on 3rd & long with a pass rusher subbing in at DE.
 

I'd be really surprised if Olson doesn't end up a starter next season.
 

I think that's one thing that gets over looked alot. A big part of Brewsters original strategy was to do a better job in the weight room than other teams. We'll be starting to see the benefit of that soon.
 



grunkiejr said:
I agree with you 100%; call it wishful thinking on my part.

IMO a big part of the struggle on 3rd down this year was the lack of pressure w/out blitzing and that falls primarily on the DE. Because of that I'm hoping the youngsters are ready to step in and play. I've heard good things about Hageman & KGM but that could mean a lot things from they'll be ready to start next year to they'll be good as upperclassmen.

If I had to put a bet on it I would say Wilhite & Jacobs start in game #1 and we work the younger guys in to the mix over the course of the season--similar to the way Wilhite and Carter were brought along this season.

I'm not sure if it will happen in 2010 but longer term I think Jacobs (and eventually Hageman for that matter) will be better at DT than DE and he could be a dominant Kirksey type DT. IMO 300 lbs is just too big for a DE and I prefer the 6-3 to 6-6 and 250 lbs to 265 lbs. Our DL this year was basically 4 285-310 lb DT's which says a lot about why our DE's didn't get many sacks.
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I agree with you that Hageman and Jacobs best positions are going to be DT. Hageman has the type of build where he could carry 320 and still be extremely athletic.

As far as Jacobs, I don't think the switch would need to be something extremely drastic. Jacobs got a lot of playing time at DT last season, and even if most of his snaps are at DT next season, I would still imagine he might play some at DE.

IMO, it will play out like this...Kirksey will play most of the snaps. Edwards might take off some passing downs (either subbed in for Jacobs or Jacques). Then our DE's will mix it up. Wilhite will play on all passing downs (and i'd prefer if he was fresh), KGM, Hageman and possibly Garin/Jacobs will split the rest of the time.
 

Bob_Loblaw said:
I agree with you that Hageman and Jacobs best positions are going to be DT. Hageman has the type of build where he could carry 320 and still be extremely athletic.

As far as Jacobs, I don't think the switch would need to be something extremely drastic. Jacobs got a lot of playing time at DT last season, and even if most of his snaps are at DT next season, I would still imagine he might play some at DE.

IMO, it will play out like this...Kirksey will play most of the snaps. Edwards might take off some passing downs (either subbed in for Jacobs or Jacques). Then our DE's will mix it up. Wilhite will play on all passing downs (and i'd prefer if he was fresh), KGM, Hageman and possibly Garin/Jacobs will split the rest of the time.
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That is reasonably close to how I think it will go. Because the depth along the DL isn't as good in 2010 as it was in 2009 Jacobs could be asked to play both SDE and DT.
 

two deeps

Bob_Loblaw said:
I agree with you that Hageman and Jacobs best positions are going to be DT. Hageman has the type of build where he could carry 320 and still be extremely athletic.

As far as Jacobs, I don't think the switch would need to be something extremely drastic. Jacobs got a lot of playing time at DT last season, and even if most of his snaps are at DT next season, I would still imagine he might play some at DE.

IMO, it will play out like this...Kirksey will play most of the snaps. Edwards might take off some passing downs (either subbed in for Jacobs or Jacques). Then our DE's will mix it up. Wilhite will play on all passing downs (and i'd prefer if he was fresh), KGM, Hageman and possibly Garin/Jacobs will split the rest of the time.
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as i have posted before in bowl preparation practice the ones were jacobs and wilhite and they will take the majority if not all the snaps next year
here are the reasons
both have outstanding work ethic jacobs will be a jr wilhite a red shirt sophomore
both were on the big 10 all academic team
wilhite was named to several all American frosh teams as well as voted the fresh man player of the year on defense by his team mates {grey won for offense}
both will have the benifit of a couple of years in the system and have the most experience
wilhite was the pass rush specialist this year playing behind seniors so dont expect that to continue
jacobs will be the strongest D.E returning wilhite the fastest with the best first step
jacobs and wilhite will be a deadly combination and unless something drastic or uncharacteristic happens they will be hard to be up rooted
the whole defense as well as the o line believe it or not have a chance to be very very good next year
 

I dont think they are all great, or wouldn't they have seen more PT this year? Not like our front 7 was dominant...
 

Don't forget about Sean Ferguson as a December grad prep player he'll be here in the spring. I suspect that he'll add to the depth a DT.
 

gopherbadgerman said:
I dont think they are all great, or wouldn't they have seen more PT this year? Not like our front 7 was dominant...
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They were pretty damn good. If they could have pressured the QB more they would have been great.

Jacobs ended up starting four games, and despite limited action early on finished with decent numbers.



Wilhite is going to be very good.
 

gopherbadgerman said:
I dont think they are all great, or wouldn't they have seen more PT this year? Not like our front 7 was dominant...
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I don't think anyone thinks that they will all be great, I think we are all just excited that they showed some promise and are all pretty young. Kirksey and Edwards both looked good (and are replacing two decent DTs), and they are both in their second season. Jacobs looked steady and Wilhite was productive for a freshman. If these guys were all SRs, I think it would be safe to say that they were an "avg. group", but being that most of the guys we are talking about will still be underclassmen next yr (3 JRS (Jacobs, Kirksey, Edwards), 1 SO (Wilhite), and 3 FR (Hageman, KGM, Jacques), that is the reason for the excitement.
 

Gopherpops...

How would you describe KGM as a player? I can get a pretty good sense of the kind of player Wilhite is going to be (faster type DE, pass rusher, etc), Garin (similar to Wilhite), and Hageman (more like a more athletic Jacobs)....but KGM has supposedly been impressive, but I can't really get a good idea of the kind of player he is.
 

KGM is going to be a nice player, but his biggest problem right now is that he doesn't have great instincts. As a result, he is often standing up straight to see where the ball is, instead of staying low and getting leverage. He will learn, no doubt. As for where things stood during the bowl preparation practices the team had with no seniors, Wilhite was starting on one side (backed up by Garin) and Hageman was starting on the other side (backed up by Jacobs). Obviously, Kirksey and Edwards were in the middle, but for all his talent Edwards is no sure thing to start, especially if a harder-working underclassmen pushes him. I am sure there will be a lot of players working into the DL rotation over the spring and summer, so time will tell how it all shakes out.
 

gopherbadgerman said:
I dont think they are all great, or wouldn't they have seen more PT this year? Not like our front 7 was dominant...
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NEWSFLASH.......Playing time and ability don't always go hand and hand. Sometimes the starters are not better than the the guys behind them, they are just older and more experienced.
 

WillieBurton said:
KGM is going to be a nice player, but his biggest problem right now is that he doesn't have great instincts. As a result, he is often standing up straight to see where the ball is, instead of staying low and getting leverage. He will learn, no doubt. As for where things stood during the bowl preparation practices the team had with no seniors, Wilhite was starting on one side (backed up by Garin) and Hageman was starting on the other side (backed up by Jacobs). Obviously, Kirksey and Edwards were in the middle, but for all his talent Edwards is no sure thing to start, especially if a harder-working underclassmen pushes him. I am sure there will be a lot of players working into the DL rotation over the spring and summer, so time will tell how it all shakes out.
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Edwards is the best DT we have by far, He is NFL bound by the time he graduates.
 

It really doesn't matter, but I think Kirksey is impressed me more than Edwards. I would also be pretty surprised if Edwards doesn't start, but I would be much more surprised if Kirksey doesn't start.
 

grunkiejr said:
I'm not sure if it will happen in 2010 but longer term I think Jacobs (and eventually Hageman for that matter) will be better at DT than DE and he could be a dominant Kirksey type DT.
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I can foresee Jacobs at DT but I don't know about Hageman, he's 6'6", that seems a bit tall for a DT to me.
 

mkAz said:
I can foresee Jacobs at DT but I don't know about Hageman, he's 6'6", that seems a bit tall for a DT to me.
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Not the best of examples, but Montgomery and Losli were both in the 6'6' range.
 


DarrenTheGreek said:
Yeah I don't understand the angst against Edwards. He's had 2 solid seasons thusfar.
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Disagree. He's strong as hell, but he doesn't have a great feel for the game. He can get penetration, but he doesn't know where the play is going and he's not effective. How many TFL did he have this year? Plus he is a step slow.
 


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