The Forum: Slight by Gophers still sticks with standout Billy Turner

[John Galt]

I'm sure Billy was questioned at length why he chose NDSU and FCS football while at the combine. I'm sure going FCS is hard to understand for some writers...

It's actually quite simple. He chose it for the same reason everyone does: he had no better options.

 

[Herd]

So, the entire MAC forgot to recruit the cities that year? He clearly did not show enough in high school to be recruited by any FBS schools. No need to hold a grudge against the Gophers when not a single school in a league a few steps down didnt even offer him. And I will never listen to an opinion from Jeff Kolpack. That guy has proved for years why he is stuck at the Forum. They guy is a complete idiot.

A MAC school or two may have offered a full ride, who knows. That doesn't mean that Turner would take that over a NSDU full ride. The MAC is very equal to the MVFC on the field,even though its FBS. Last year the MAC (both Divisoins) was ranked below the MVFC in the final Sagarin ranking, so the football is pretty even.

 

[Ole]

A MAC school or two may have offered a full ride, who knows. That doesn't mean that Turner would take that over a NSDU full ride. The MAC is very equal to the MVFC on the field,even though its FBS. Last year the MAC (both Divisoins) was ranked below the MVFC in the final Sagarin ranking, so the football is pretty even.

yes, sagarin. The only ranking that matters to bison fans.
sweet jebus what a delusional fanbase.

An offer from the worst MAC school is still better than an FCS offer to 99% of prospects nationally.
EMU and Umass still get to play Penn State and Michigan. The can make a BCS bowl in theory. They have a chance to play big boy football which matters to most kids.

BTW Turner was certainly coached up at NDSU, that much is a credit to the coaches up there. He was not a unblemished prospect or other schools would have caught wind of his unquestioned talent.

 

[spermophilus]

yes, sagarin. The only ranking that matters to bison fans.
sweet jebus what a delusional fanbase.

An offer from the worst MAC school is still better than an FCS offer to 99% of prospects nationally.
EMU and Umass still get to play Penn State and Michigan. The can make a BCS bowl in theory. They have a chance to play big boy football which matters to most kids.

BTW Turner was certainly coached up at NDSU, that much is a credit to the coaches up there. He was not a unblemished prospect or other schools would have caught wind of his unquestioned talent.

Ah yes, the great trotting out of the Bison fans' "be-all, end-all" Sagarin ratings. Hilarious!

What Herd and his ilk won't tell you about Sagarin regarding the MAC vs. the D-1AA MVC conference ratings, is that the "lowly" MAC (why would Turner have gone there, when the Buffaloes had called?) ranked HIGHER than the MVC in all the other five years from 2012-2008 inclusive. And, that the MAC's lowest rating in all of the 6 years (including 2013), was . . . wait for it . . . . 2013. OOOPS!

To the average fan who follows college football - particularly excluding upper Midwest fans - this would not be a surprise in any way, shape, or form. The MAC plays a great non-conference schedule, generally, and top-to-bottom the quality of their teams is far superior - meaning that they have to gear up for a dogfight versus a quality opponent each and every week.

Those '13 thru '08 years are the very ones when the player in question played, and the 2 years in which he may have been weighing scholarship offers (or not?).

I post this with grave reservations, knowing that the likely "but the sky is red" arguments/posts are likely to follow, and from you-know-where.

 

[RodentRampage]

How many recruits choose FCS scholarship offers over MAC scholarship offers?

 

[FargoBison]

How many recruits choose FCS scholarship offers over MAC scholarship offers?

NDSU holds its own vs the MAC but I'm sure NDSU is the exception and not the rule.

 

[dinkything]

This entire thread is based on a flawed premise.

To position this issue as simply a Bill Turner vs. a pondering Seantrel Henderson......who gets the scholarship? Ridiculous......

Brewster was blanketing the country with scholarship offers to OL, while players like the local Bill Turner sat and watched. In the recruiting season of 2010, Brewster went after and signed OL's Matt Eggen, Zac Epping, Jimmy Gjere, Marek Lenkiewicz, and Jonathan Ragoo, as well as offering countless other linemen, including Seantrel Henderson. He even used that helicopter on Friday nights to try to impress whoever might be watching.

This is just another example of Brewster blowing it on the recruiting trail...completely whiffing on Turner?

Question: Over these past 4 years, how many Gophers were invited to the Senior Bowl? the NFL Combine in Indy? How many were drafted into the NFL?

Looks like Bill Turner will make the clean sweep...gotta hand it to him.

 

[GophersInIowa]

Complete and utter BS.

It's amazing how many people believe that, isn't it? There's no basis for it, just that some people don't like Brewster so much that they just say whatever they want without any fact to back it up.

Here are the in-state amount who signed and were offered.

Under Mason (last two years)
2005 - 7 signed, offered 4 others
2006 - 5 signed, offered 3 others

Under Brewster
2007 - 8 signed, offered 5 others
2008 - 4 signed, offered 4 others
2009 - 6 signed, offered 2 others
2010 - 3 signed, offered 3 others

Under Kill
2011 - 5 signed, offered 1 other
2012 - 10 signed, offered 2 others
2013 - 1 signed, offered 3 others
2014 - 3 signed, offered 2 others

These numbers may not be exact, but they are close. Brewster averaged 8.75 in-state offers a year, Kill has offered 6.75 a year.

 

[die hard gopher]

The same way that Ragnow became a Gopher? Hey, I love Kill, but you can't prove the negative, so why try?

Thats an absolutely terrible comparison. We obviously wanted Ragnow really bad and he chose to go someplace "better." Saying Kill would have gotten Turner would be the same as him getting Lauer and Rasmussen, being able to identify the under the radar talent that nobody else knew about. Not comparing him to a guy who had offers from multiple helmet schools. Turner is to Lauer as Ragnow is to Gjerre and almost Henderon.

 

[lakesgopher]

NDSU holds its own vs the MAC but I'm sure NDSU is the exception and not the rule.

You don't understand what you read...go back and start over

 

[imthewalrus]

So, you state: "...These numbers may not be exact, but they are close..." while at the same time making the statement: "...just that some people don't like Brewster so much that they just say whatever they want without any fact to back it up..."

You Brewster apologists are pretty damn funny!

That Brewster certainly was "close" to being what all the Brewster detractors claim he was. After all, he was fired mid-Big Ten season in his third year because he was SO "close" to being a total and complete failure as a head football coach

 

[fryguy22]

So, you state: "...These numbers may not be exact, but they are close..." while at the same time making the statement: "...just that some people don't like Brewster so much that they just say whatever they want without any fact to back it up..."

You Brewster apologists are pretty damn funny!

That Brewster certainly was "close" to being what all the Brewster detractors claim he was. After all, he was fired mid-Big Ten season in his third year because he was SO "close" to being a total and complete failure as a head football coach

Whoops, try again skippy! It was year four. In fact, he made a bowl in year three.

Feel free to give a more accurate breakdown of in-state offers by year if you have it.

 

[50PoundHead]

Thats an absolutely terrible comparison. We obviously wanted Ragnow really bad and he chose to go someplace "better." Saying Kill would have gotten Turner would be the same as him getting Lauer and Rasmussen, being able to identify the under the radar talent that nobody else knew about. Not comparing him to a guy who had offers from multiple helmet schools. Turner is to Lauer as Ragnow is to Gjerre and almost Henderon.

What I'm saying is you don't know what Kill would have done so making a statement that you do know what Kill would have done is an absolutely groundless statement.

 

[GreasyGopher]

I dont think its a completely astronomical statement to say the likelihood of Turner being a Gopher is higher had Kill been the coach at the time. Kill and staff do their own evaluations and almost ignore star rankings whereas Brewster placed way more importance on the star system and because of that he took risks on players because they had the stars and was less likely to recruit a lower star recruit that may have been underrated.

But all this is just useless conjecture on my part.

 

[RodentRampage]

NDSU holds its own vs the MAC but I'm sure NDSU is the exception and not the rule.

If NDSU holds its own vs. the MAC in recruiting, how many recruits sign with NDSU after having a scholarship offer to a MAC school?

 

[FargoBison]

If NDSU holds its own vs. the MAC in recruiting, how many recruits sign with NDSU after having a scholarship offer to a MAC school?

From what I can tell this year we signed three and lost three recruits to MAC schools, a few recruits had multiple MAC offers. Our top recruit had several MAC offers and also an offer from Rutgers.

I believe last year we also won three battles vs the MAC.

 

[50PoundHead]

I dont think its a completely astronomical statement to say the likelihood of Turner being a Gopher is higher had Kill been the coach at the time. Kill and staff do their own evaluations and almost ignore star rankings whereas Brewster placed way more importance on the star system and because of that he took risks on players because they had the stars and was less likely to recruit a lower star recruit that may have been underrated.

But all this is just useless conjecture on my part.

And my conjecture is useless as well. I guess I resorted to basic logic with the "can't prove the negative" statement. If he had said "we would have had a better chance landing Turner if Kill had been here," that's one thing. I just think there was too much certainty in his premise.

Turner has turned out well and I wish him all the best, but he wasn't highly-regarded by a vast majority of BCS programs. Does that mean he's a bad player who wasn't going to develop? No, it doesn't. Does it mean Kill would have seen something Brewster didn't see? Maybe, but I'm not going to go off the deep end.

 

[GophersInIowa]

So, you state: "...These numbers may not be exact, but they are close..." while at the same time making the statement: "...just that some people don't like Brewster so much that they just say whatever they want without any fact to back it up..."

You Brewster apologists are pretty damn funny!

That Brewster certainly was "close" to being what all the Brewster detractors claim he was. After all, he was fired mid-Big Ten season in his third year because he was SO "close" to being a total and complete failure as a head football coach

I took the time to look at who we signed in those years and then also looked at the top 10 or 15 mn recruits according to rivals (unlike the person who made the comment in the first place). There might have been a few players who were not rated in the top 10 or 15 that we offered by the Gophers. So my point was I may have missed one or two, but one or two doesn't change much in the argument I was trying to make.

Did the numbers I posted not prove that Brewster looked at in-state players just as much as Kill has and as much as Mason did at the end of his time at the U? I wasn't saying anything more or less than that.

I know I shouldn't expect a normal response from you, but what makes someone a "Brewster apologist"? As it turned out, he was in way over his head and shouldn't have been hired. But I also think he recruited in-state just as much as Mason and Kill have, which is what I was commenting on. Nothing about what I said made it seem like I thought he was a great coach. Only you would take it that way.

 

[Killjoy]

I know I shouldn't expect a normal response from you, but what makes someone a "Brewster apologist"? As it turned out, he was in way over his head and shouldn't have been hired. But I also think he recruited in-state just as much as Mason and Kill have, which is what I was commenting on. Nothing about what I said made it seem like I thought he was a great coach. Only you would take it that way.

I had to laugh when I read your question above. I can tell you it doesn't take much to become a "Brewster apologist". wren bestowed that honor on me when I disagreed with him about something that had nothing to do with Brewster. At that point I realized that wren used the term "Brewster apologist" on anybody who disagreed with him. That, along with his constant posting that "It was all about Big Ten wins" made me realize that something was not quit right. Fortunately shortly after that I watched the movie "Being There" and then I realized that wren was the "Chauncey Gardiner" of Gopher athletics.