The exact same Gophers

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alaska said:
Nothing has changed. We post in here with this hope and idea that somehow this year will be different. It’s not. The gophers suck badly. There is not a game on the schedule that looks like a win. North Carolina is bad, real bad. It’s a joke. It’s boring to watch. The product is weak. The stands will be empty next week.
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Well, Vegas had this year's team pegged at 4.5 wins. You had to know in advance that the team would probably not be terrific. They have actually exceeded the expectations of "experts". I have enjoyed every win, especially "The Hollywood Sweep".
 





Some guy said:
Coyle made a good football hire last time
Coyle ran a good process for basketball hire for the men’s side just picked the wrong person.


I’m not as down on Coyle as some.
I would guess Coyle will be gone before he fires fleck. So if Coyle is making the hire it means fleck left.
I don’t think fleck is currently doing enough to get a new job that is clearly a step up. He could maybe land a lateral job right now.
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Come on... #1. Coyle's football hire I'll agree was good. But, there is a question whether a new coach needed to be hired in the first place. A better, stronger AD doesn't get the football coach in the position he was forced to be in supporting his players. Ya, ya somebody can say the incident is inexcusable with which I'll agree with. The coach is ultimately responsible, but should he be fired?

#2. There absolutely was a horseshit process to select a men's basketball coach. He called candidates interested in the job and told them he had his guy and no need to interview. Coyle signed off on the decision to hire Ben Johnson....he didn't make the decision.

#3 He gambled on Whalen and lost. I don't know that he should be condemned for that? He did fire her when it was apparent it wasn't going to work. But, I believe the jury is out on whether the new women's coach is a good hire. Her best recruits are Whalen's players. The offense seems clueless, (they dribble without purpose, they rarely screen or run any type of actions, they do nothing to get shooters open shots) the defense is playing a style that doesn't fit the talent.

4. Coyle is an anonymous leader without a quality you can point to and say he's really good at it.
It's not fundraising. It's not administration or budgeting...a huge amount of people work in the department and we cut sports. Press conferences are an amateur hour compared to other schools. Selling tickets or advertising is not his thing either but I bet we have a lot of people hired for these jobs.

5. I would be shocked if Coyle ever fired PJ. Won/loss records won't be a factor. It only takes one school with the right offer and PJ could move on by his choice. You get at least 5 years of grace at a new position but I do think he probably truly does like it here and there is very little pressure outside of his own to win.

6. Coyle keeps getting mentioned as a candidate for other schools but he keeps getting passed over. Other than staying out of trouble...athletic academics are likely his biggest thing he can point to. For a school that values that over athletic success ....he could actually get hired by somebody. Seems very unlikely from 10,000 miles removed that he'd get fired....we need to wait until he retires in all likelihood to get a new AD...as a result not much is going to change.
 

60's Guy said:
Come on... #1. Coyle's football hire I'll agree was good. But, there is a question whether a new coach needed to be hired in the first place. A better, stronger AD doesn't get the football coach in the position he was forced to be in supporting his players. Ya, ya somebody can say the incident is inexcusable with which I'll agree with. The coach is ultimately responsible, but should he be fired?

#2. There absolutely was a horseshit process to select a men's basketball coach. He called candidates interested in the job and told them he had his guy and no need to interview. Coyle signed off on the decision to hire Ben Johnson....he didn't make the decision.

#3 He gambled on Whalen and lost. I don't know that he should be condemned for that? He did fire her when it was apparent it wasn't going to work. But, I believe the jury is out on whether the new women's coach is a good hire. Her best recruits are Whalen's players. The offense seems clueless, (they dribble without purpose, they rarely screen or run any type of actions, they do nothing to get shooters open shots) the defense is playing a style that doesn't fit the talent.

4. Coyle is an anonymous leader without a quality you can point to and say he's really good at it.
It's not fundraising. It's not administration or budgeting...a huge amount of people work in the department and we cut sports. Press conferences are an amateur hour compared to other schools. Selling tickets or advertising is not his thing either but I bet we have a lot of people hired for these jobs.

5. I would be shocked if Coyle ever fired PJ. Won/loss records won't be a factor. It only takes one school with the right offer and PJ could move on by his choice. You get at least 5 years of grace at a new position but I do think he probably truly does like it here and there is very little pressure outside of his own to win.

6. Coyle keeps getting mentioned as a candidate for other schools but he keeps getting passed over. Other than staying out of trouble...athletic academics are likely his biggest thing he can point to. For a school that values that over athletic success ....he could actually get hired by somebody. Seems very unlikely from 10,000 miles removed that he'd get fired....we need to wait until he retires in all likelihood to get a new AD...as a result not much is going to change.
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You have some solid points outside of #1.

On number 5 I think a point could come where Coyle would fire Fleck but we are nowhere close to that point and it is tough to envision things getting bad enough for Coyle to fire him.
 

60's Guy said:
Come on... #1. Coyle's football hire I'll agree was good. But, there is a question whether a new coach needed to be hired in the first place. A better, stronger AD doesn't get the football coach in the position he was forced to be in supporting his players. Ya, ya somebody can say the incident is inexcusable with which I'll agree with. The coach is ultimately responsible, but should he be fired?
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Tracy claeys was never coming back. He made the university a national embarrassment. If you don’t realize that, I can’t help you. There are maybe 5-10 coaches nationwide who could publicly embarrass their president and AD and keep their job. Most of those 5-10 have national championships and there might not be 5-10.
60's Guy said:
#2. There absolutely was a horseshit process to select a men's basketball coach. He called candidates interested in the job and told them he had his guy and no need to interview. Coyle signed off on the decision to hire Ben Johnson....he didn't make the decision.
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I more meant the process of getting rid of Pitino + making the hire. Not who they picked or who they talked to in picking him.
60's Guy said:
#3 He gambled on Whalen and lost. I don't know that he should be condemned for that? He did fire her when it was apparent it wasn't going to work. But, I believe the jury is out on whether the new women's coach is a good hire. Her best recruits are Whalen's players. The offense seems clueless, (they dribble without purpose, they rarely screen or run any type of actions, they do nothing to get shooters open shots) the defense is playing a style that doesn't fit the talent.
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I have no idea about anything women’s basketball
60's Guy said:
4. Coyle is an anonymous leader without a quality you can point to and say he's really good at it.
It's not fundraising. It's not administration or budgeting...a huge amount of people work in the department and we cut sports. Press conferences are an amateur hour compared to other schools. Selling tickets or advertising is not his thing either but I bet we have a lot of people hired for these jobs.
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Not sure. President seems to like him. Not sure about president either.
60's Guy said:
5. I would be shocked if Coyle ever fired PJ. Won/loss records won't be a factor. It only takes one school with the right offer and PJ could move on by his choice. You get at least 5 years of grace at a new position but I do think he probably truly does like it here and there is very little pressure outside of his own to win.
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I think there is pressure to be above average. I am not sure he is going to get fired for being 7-5. Especially in this new era. I do think enough 5-7s would get him fired eventually.
60's Guy said:
6. Coyle keeps getting mentioned as a candidate for other schools but he keeps getting passed over. Other than staying out of trouble...athletic academics are likely his biggest thing he can point to. For a school that values that over athletic success ....he could actually get hired by somebody. Seems very unlikely from 10,000 miles removed that he'd get fired....we need to wait until he retires in all likelihood to get a new AD...as a result not much is going to change.
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It is interesting people assume Coyle is really a candidate when his name comes up but assume fleck isn’t a candidate when his name comes up. I don’t know anything, I just find it interesting.
 



MNVCGUY said:
You have some solid points outside of #1.

On number 5 I think a point could come where Coyle would fire Fleck but we are nowhere close to that point and it is tough to envision things getting bad enough for Coyle to fire him.
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Some people still hate Coyle because they still don’t get how poorly TC handled himself. There isn’t an interim employee in the history of the nation that could do that and then get the premanent job.

And yes he was an interim coach as evidence by his lack of contract.
 


Some guy said:
Coyle made a good football hire last time
Coyle ran a good process for basketball hire for the men’s side just picked the wrong person.


I’m not as down on Coyle as some.
I would guess Coyle will be gone before he fires fleck. So if Coyle is making the hire it means fleck left.
I don’t think fleck is currently doing enough to get a new job that is clearly a step up. He could maybe land a lateral job right now.
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LOL— Coyle. He’s a disaster. Worst public speaker in the history of all ADs anywhere and I don’t know what he’s really done well since he’s been here. Looks like he probably got the new volleyball and women’s basketball hires right. Time will tell.
 

Gopherchase said:
LOL— Coyle. He’s a disaster. Worst public speaker in the history of all ADs anywhere and I don’t know what he’s really done well since he’s been here. Looks like he probably got the new volleyball and women’s basketball hires right. Time will tell.
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Im not so sure about volleyball ... I think Plitzuweit was a good hire.
 



Well, I'd say it's the same thing from the standpoint of the Gophers seemingly putting it all together and then laying an egg against a bad team, and Rutgers is a bad team. Reminds me of them in years past going into Bloomington and somehow losing the Hoosiers when they were always bad.
 

Gopherchase said:
LOL— Coyle. He’s a disaster. Worst public speaker in the history of all ADs anywhere and I don’t know what he’s really done well since he’s been here. Looks like he probably got the new volleyball and women’s basketball hires right. Time will tell.
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He fired claeys and hired fleck
That was a good move.

He messed up basketball. That was a disaster

Other than football and basketball I don’t follow many gopher sports. Feels like hockey is okay but hasn’t won a national title?
 

Some guy said:
He fired claeys and hired fleck
That was a good move.

He messed up basketball. That was a disaster

Other than football and basketball I don’t follow many gopher sports. Feels like hockey is okay but hasn’t won a national title?
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Motzko a great hire but it was a pure no brainer. He wanted to be here and was the clear choice. Former assistant coach here. Great run at St. Cloud. Would have been foolish to hire anyone else.
 


GoForGold said:
Well, I'd say it's the same thing from the standpoint of the Gophers seemingly putting it all together and then laying an egg against a bad team, and Rutgers is a bad team. Reminds me of them in years past going into Bloomington and somehow losing the Hoosiers when they were always bad.
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Rutgers is not the joke they have been in the past. They have been decimated by injuries (especially during their losing streak) and had we played well we would have beaten them, but they are part of the big jumble of Big Ten teams where any given weekend the game could go any number of different ways based on which team executes better.
 

MNVCGUY said:
Rutgers is not the joke they have been in the past. They have been decimated by injuries (especially during their losing streak) and had we played well we would have beaten them, but they are part of the big jumble of Big Ten teams where any given weekend the game could go any number of different ways based on which team executes better.
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You can't take any Big Ten team lightly. I'll agree on that. I'll put it this way: Rutgers is bottomfeeder in the conference and these are the teams you have to step over to get near the top. Otherwise, you are going to have to settle 6 or 7 wins and a minor bowl bid which is where this team is headed. I hope I'm wrong but I don't think so. In any case, I'll keep watching and hoping for something better. And if I'm wrong you all can lambast me for being so negative.
 
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GoForGold said:
You can't take any Big Ten team lightly. I'll agree on that. I'll put it this way: Rutgers is bottomfeeder in the conference and these are the teams you have to step over to get near the top. Otherwise, you are going to have to settle 6 or 7 wins and a minor bowl bid which is where this team is headed. I hope I'm wrong but I don't think so. In any case, I'll keep watching and hoping for something better. And if I'm wrong you all can lambast me for being so negative.
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100% agree that games like the one this past Saturday are ones you have to win to get consistently to the top of the conference but that is easier said than done for most teams in the Big Ten outside of the handful of elite programs like Ohio State and Oregon.

It is frustrating when you look at the schedule and you see those games that could have/should have been wins but the reality is that nearly every team outside of the best of the best has those games every year.
 


MNVCGUY said:
100% agree that games like the one this past Saturday are ones you have to win to get consistently to the top of the conference but that is easier said than done for most teams in the Big Ten outside of the handful of elite programs like Ohio State and Oregon.

It is frustrating when you look at the schedule and you see those games that could have/should have been wins but the reality is that nearly every team outside of the best of the best has those games every year.
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Well, all they can do now is pull off a big upset against Penn St. I try to keep a running count of where the team is at according to expectations. An upset gets you a +1 and being upset gets you a -1. A win in a couple of weeks will offset the loss to Rutgers. A win against Wisconsin probably isn't an upset in that case. A 6-3 Big Ten record and an 8-4 record overall is very acceptable to me, maybe slightly above expectations for this season.
 

GoForGold said:
Well, all they can do now is pull off a big upset against Penn St. I try to keep a running count of where the team is at according to expectations. An upset gets you a +1 and being upset gets you a -1. A win in a couple of weeks will offset the loss to Rutgers. A win against Wisconsin probably isn't an upset in that case. A 6-3 Big Ten record and an 8-4 record overall is very acceptable to me, maybe slightly above expectations for this season.
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That record would actually be significantly better than many of the pre-season predictions from the national media. Now most of us felt they were underselling us but many of the pre-season picks had us missing a bowl game again this year which clearly won't be the case.
 

MNVCGUY said:
100% agree that games like the one this past Saturday are ones you have to win to get consistently to the top of the conference but that is easier said than done for most teams in the Big Ten outside of the handful of elite programs like Ohio State and Oregon.

It is frustrating when you look at the schedule and you see those games that could have/should have been wins but the reality is that nearly every team outside of the best of the best has those games every year.
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It's like the Lions-Texans game on Sunday. The Lions have so much talent that they were able to overcome Goff's 5 interceptions and beat a good team. Teams like the Gophers with middling talent, however, have to be at their best to be successful against other mediocraties. They were able to ride this slim margin of error for 4 weeks but a couple of bad plays on Saturday were too many to surmount.
 

Word said:
Motzko a great hire but it was a pure no brainer. He wanted to be here and was the clear choice. Former assistant coach here. Great run at St. Cloud. Would have been foolish to hire anyone else.
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It can be a complete no brainer but If Motzko gets bad vibes from the AD he would be foolish to take the job.

If your AD is front and center of your programs, it's usually for all the wrong reasons.
 

MaxyJR1 said:
It can be a complete no brainer but If Motzko gets bad vibes from the AD he would be foolish to take the job.

If your AD is front and center of your programs, it's usually for all the wrong reasons.
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Not giving off bad vibes is a pretty low bar for an AD. Minnesota is clearly a top 4 hockey job in the country. Hard to scare off candidates.
 

MNVCGUY said:
That record would actually be significantly better than many of the pre-season predictions from the national media. Now most of us felt they were underselling us but many of the pre-season picks had us missing a bowl game again this year which clearly won't be the case.
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The national media always undersells the Gophers. Bringing in a new QB definitely made it hard to predict where the season was going to go. I've been very satisfied with Max Brosmer overall. There still is a chance the Gophers could get 2 or even 3 more wins than last season, and I'm including a bowl game in the total to be clear.
 

Some guy said:
Tracy claeys was never coming back. He made the university a national embarrassment. If you don’t realize that, I can’t help you. There are maybe 5-10 coaches nationwide who could publicly embarrass their president and AD and keep their job. Most of those 5-10 have national championships and there might not be 5-10.

I more meant the process of getting rid of Pitino + making the hire. Not who they picked or who they talked to in picking him.

I have no idea about anything women’s basketball

Not sure. President seems to like him. Not sure about president either.

I think there is pressure to be above average. I am not sure he is going to get fired for being 7-5. Especially in this new era. I do think enough 5-7s would get him fired eventually.

It is interesting people assume Coyle is really a candidate when his name comes up but assume fleck isn’t a candidate when his name comes up. I don’t know anything, I just find it interesting.
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On #1 ... We are in agreement that TC needed to be fired as it played out. My point was that with a competent AD ... Tracy is never put in that position to have to defend his players. Coyle lied. Tracy stood with the players. He was put in a position to lose his players or his job. He chose the players. The players responded with an amazing performance in the bowl game victory. And he lost his job which was as it had to be under the circumstances unless Coyle fell on the sword and admitted his poor handling, miscommunication with the players.

Other than that...we mostly are the same page with our answers, with this caveat.
You think Coyle might be competent. I do not.
 

MNVCGUY said:
It is frustrating when you look at the schedule and you see those games that could have/should have been wins but the reality is that nearly every team outside of the best of the best has those games every year.
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Yeah, UCLA probably wishes they could get us now, Colorado probably wishes they could play Nebby now, etc.
 

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