The 5 worst firings over the past 10 years in college football (Mason/Minnesota #2)

[Go4Broke]

Minnesota CAN do better than Mason, but firing him at that moment was self-destructive and led to the much worse Brewster hiring. The whole episode was a fiasco, following as it did an expensive renewal of his contract. Overall, it was a huge mistake.

It has been stated dozens of times in GopherHole that it was BRUININKS who fired Mason when he went in the locker room to console Mason after the Texas Tech bowl game fiasco. After Bruininks witnessed Mason laughing and joking about the defeat he told Maturi when they were leaving the locker room to fire Mason's ass when they got back to Minneapolis. The timing of Mason's firing was ALL on Bruininks. Bruininks was a control freak and he had his say in almost everything that happened at the U when he was president.

 

[GopherGack]

I think a lot of people are undervaluing Mason's tenure here. If you just glanced at the final standings you might say something like "he never finished higher than fourth" and while that is technically true it doesn't accurately describe his best seasons either. He was an OT loss to Wisconsin in 1999 and a 4th quarter collapse against Michigan in 2003 from going to the Rosebowl. He coached in an era when the Big 10 was extremely strong. In 2003, his best year, two of the three losses were to top 10 teams. In 1999 seven Big 10 teams were ranked including four in the top 11. If you could magically pluck Mason's 1999 or 2003 team and plunk it down in 2012 we would have been Rosebowl bound.

I think another thing lost by people in retrospect was the overall feeling of optimism during his tenure, especially early on. I entered every single game, outside of his very first seasons since he was starting from the mess left by decades of ineptness, with a feeling of hope we could win the game. With his rushing attack we always had a chance. There is something to be said for feeling like you have a chance to win a game. Contrast that with most of Brewsters or Kill's tenure. I have yet to feel like we could win a game against OSU or Michigan or Wisconsin. Most games (the big games against powerful opponents) I was thinking about what chores needed to happen around the house in the second half before the game even started. I really miss that feeling of optimism and hope.

 

[short ornery norwegian]

I think a lot of people are undervaluing Mason's tenure here. If you just glanced at the final standings you might say something like "he never finished higher than fourth" and while that is technically true it doesn't accurately describe his best seasons either. He was an OT loss to Wisconsin in 1999 and a 4th quarter collapse against Michigan in 2003 from going to the Rosebowl. He coached in an era when the Big 10 was extremely strong. In 2003, his best year, two of the three losses were to top 10 teams. In 1999 seven Big 10 teams were ranked including four in the top 11. If you could magically pluck Mason's 1999 or 2003 team and plunk it down in 2012 we would have been Rosebowl bound.

I think another thing lost by people in retrospect was the overall feeling of optimism during his tenure, especially early on. I entered every single game, outside of his very first seasons since he was starting from the mess left by decades of ineptness, with a feeling of hope we could win the game. With his rushing attack we always had a chance. There is something to be said for feeling like you have a chance to win a game. Contrast that with most of Brewsters or Kill's tenure. I have yet to feel like we could win a game against OSU or Michigan or Wisconsin. Most games (the big games against powerful opponents) I was thinking about what chores needed to happen around the house in the second half before the game even started. I really miss that feeling of optimism and hope.

At the same time, because of the issues on defense under Mason, I went into every Gophs' game with a feeling of dispair that the Gophs could lose the game, no matter how big a lead they had in the 1st three quarters.

Mason wasn't the devil; he wasn't the worst coach in the world - but he wasn't perfect either. You make the point that he did have some very good years - but he didn't sustain that level of success. After 10 years as the Gophers coach, he still described it as a "rebuilding" program. That's not very optimistic in my book.

 

[Killjoy]

Thanks short ornery norwegian.....

At the same time, because of the issues on defense under Mason, I went into every Gophs' game with a feeling of dispair that the Gophs could lose the game, no matter how big a lead they had in the 1st three quarters.

Mason wasn't the devil; he wasn't the worst coach in the world - but he wasn't perfect either. You make the point that he did have some very good years - but he didn't sustain that level of success. After 10 years as the Gophers coach, he still described it as a "rebuilding" program. That's not very optimistic in my book.

.... for not making Mason into something more than he was and for not making him into something less than he was. But it appears to me that there are those here who just can't accept that Glen was just an okay coach and had his faults. But they still seem to want to prove this isn't the case by comparing him to Brewster and Kill. This seems particularly premature for Kill until he has been here for a while longer. I think though we have seen enough of Kill to say that he doesn't have Mason's faults of not liking to recruit, playing defense, doing public relations, and complaining that it is hard to win here at Minnesota. I suppose this conversation has a life of it own but it is beginning to feel like...

 

[imthewalrus]

I think a lot of people are undervaluing Mason's tenure here. If you just glanced at the final standings you might say something like "he never finished higher than fourth" and while that is technically true it doesn't accurately describe his best seasons either. He was an OT loss to Wisconsin in 1999 and a 4th quarter collapse against Michigan in 2003 from going to the Rosebowl. He coached in an era when the Big 10 was extremely strong. In 2003, his best year, two of the three losses were to top 10 teams. In 1999 seven Big 10 teams were ranked including four in the top 11. If you could magically pluck Mason's 1999 or 2003 team and plunk it down in 2012 we would have been Rosebowl bound.

I think another thing lost by people in retrospect was the overall feeling of optimism during his tenure, especially early on. I entered every single game, outside of his very first seasons since he was starting from the mess left by decades of ineptness, with a feeling of hope we could win the game. With his rushing attack we always had a chance. There is something to be said for feeling like you have a chance to win a game. Contrast that with most of Brewsters or Kill's tenure. I have yet to feel like we could win a game against OSU or Michigan or Wisconsin. Most games (the big games against powerful opponents) I was thinking about what chores needed to happen around the house in the second half before the game even started. I really miss that feeling of optimism and hope.

When you are right...you are right. It will be a very good day for Golden Gopher Football when All-American Players, All-B1G Players and 8 to 10 plus win seasons happen ONCE in a while. It's a tough conference and the ONLY thing that is certain is the number of B1G wins and total wins and invitations to bowl games will happen frequently only when we have a decently competitive football program...and once in a while we have a win in a bowl game to celebrate being competetive.

Those will be good times compared to what he have seen in the past half decade. I am hopeful. Good luck Coach Kill...we will be able to judge how Coach Kill is progressing by the total number of B1G wins vs losses. That will rule out any bias and foolish spin by the spin doctors who would try to sell that less has been more during the past half dozen years...Only the record of wins vs losses and a comparison between the coaches will tell the story...as each season passes, the win vs loss totals become part of the record...of our history of Golden Gopher Football...
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[Unregistered User]

Blah, blah, blah

 

[TPatt17]

This is by far the best post on here.

Everyone knows Mason was far from perfect. Although I wouldn't put him on a pedestal, I don't see the need to rip on him. I think one could make a case he did O.K. given the lack of institutional and arguably incompetent administrative support. Sure, he made a decent living while he coached here so it's hard to feel too bad about him being fired. But I'll say this for him, he lives in MN and he seems to support the program and in particular Kill. As such, I'm O.K. with his time here as a coach and will admit I enjoy his current status as an analyst.

Go Gophers!

 

[LesBolstad]

Ifs, Buts, Candy, and Nuts....

I think a lot of people are undervaluing Mason's tenure here. If you just glanced at the final standings you might say something like "he never finished higher than fourth" and while that is technically true it doesn't accurately describe his best seasons either. He was an OT loss to Wisconsin in 1999 and a 4th quarter collapse against Michigan in 2003 from going to the Rosebowl. He coached in an era when the Big 10 was extremely strong. In 2003, his best year, two of the three losses were to top 10 teams. In 1999 seven Big 10 teams were ranked including four in the top 11. If you could magically pluck Mason's 1999 or 2003 team and plunk it down in 2012 we would have been Rosebowl bound.

I think another thing lost by people in retrospect was the overall feeling of optimism during his tenure, especially early on. I entered every single game, outside of his very first seasons since he was starting from the mess left by decades of ineptness, with a feeling of hope we could win the game. With his rushing attack we always had a chance. There is something to be said for feeling like you have a chance to win a game. Contrast that with most of Brewsters or Kill's tenure. I have yet to feel like we could win a game against OSU or Michigan or Wisconsin. Most games (the big games against powerful opponents) I was thinking about what chores needed to happen around the house in the second half before the game even started. I really miss that feeling of optimism and hope.

This is the type of rationale that has led to 40 years of a bad program.

 

[mplsbadger]

This is the type of rationale that has led to 40 years of a bad program.

I disagree. This is the type of rationale that would have kept Cal Stoll from getting fired. A guy who had a couple winning records in the Big Ten and had a team that beat both Rose Bowl participants one year. We all know how many wonderful things have happened for the program since he was canned due to a shortsighted perspective. Shortsightedness would have gotten Warmath canned before 1960 too.

 

[imthewalrus]

This is the type of rationalae that has led to 40 years of a bad program.

less is not more...it's only less, LesBolstad. It would seem that the"fix" to the last 40 years of a bad program has not been one bit better...in a number of cases, it has been even worse. Even with the new stadium.

We are keeping track of the records, you know LesBolsad. Personally I am hoping for an improvement in 2013. We will do the math at the end of the season.

Personally, I would like to say that I think GopherGack made some great points and this was one of the more insightful posts made on this board in a very long time.

Not everyone thinks the same way you do LesBolstad...and that is a very good thing!

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[LesBolstad]

Fortunately......

less is not more...it's only less, LesBolstad. It would seem that the"fix" to the last 40 years of a bad program has not been one bit better...in a number of cases, it has been even worse. Even with the new stadium.

We are keeping track of the records, you know LesBolsad. Personally I am hoping for an improvement in 2013. We will do the math at the end of the season.

Personally, I would like to say that I think GopherGack made some great points and this was one of the more insightful posts made on this board in a very long time.

Not everyone thinks the same way you do LesBolstad...and that is a very good thing!

; 0 )

A heck of lot more people think the same way I do vs. you, and that's a very good thing. Most think you're loony tunes; and I can't argue with that assessment.

 

[imthewalrus]

A heck of lot more people think the same way I do vs. you, and that's a very good thing. Most think you're loony tunes; and I can't argue with that assessment.

Well, you know LesBolstad, you could very well be right when considering some of the people around here. I'm a decent enough sort...but...I say what I think and I really don't care what the company line dudes/dudettes think about me. I never have been one to want to be just like everybody else but I have always been one to say what I think. And I see what I see. So, I am not too afraid to disagree...OR...agree with a point that is being discussed. Do you honestly want to have everyone thinking and saying the same company line here? How are you going to keep people in line if they differ in thought from the company line? Who writes the company line? Isn't it boring being in lock-step with every other poster here?

And, I always kind of had the attitude that a few people seem to have, but is not always the popular attitude. A few who like to say what they think probably also share the feeling that: "tramps like us...baby we were born to run..." So I run with what I think LesBorstad. I guess I feel pretty safe knowing that you think what ever you think of me...and I would assume that a heck of a lot more people here who try to make everyone on this site think and say the same things think the way you think about me. You are probably right about that. But, I just don't care LesBolstad. As always, I will lend my perspective on the situation...Life is good LesBolstad...try smiling once in a while...or are you just constipated or terminally grumpy?

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[FanSinceTheFifties]

So tired of this 'know your place, Minnesota' attitude we are getting barraged with these days. I guess everyone but Gopher fans are tired of the status quo. Shame on us.

I would rather continually try and strike gold with that magic coaching hire that eventually wins us a conference title, than settle for an honorable mention in the middle of the Big Ten. If that means cycling thru coaches every 4-7 years to get there, so be it. I'd rather try, than just settle for crap bowls, and a sub-.500 Big Ten record.

So you think all it takes is a magic coaching hire for UM to be at the top? You might be right. Reusse says so, too. As for me, I notice that since our last conference title threat, we've had nine head coaches and not one has been close to even competing for the Big Ten title. Could it be that there is something other than the head coach that has taken the UM football program from a regular top Big Ten team up until the 60s to one that hasn't been competitive since. Something that makes many Minnesota prospects want to play elsewhere and makes it difficult to recruit top out-of-state players? And it's not the weather.

 

[bleedsmaroonandgold]

So you think all it takes is a magic coaching hire for UM to be at the top? You might be right. Reusse says so, too. As for me, I notice that since our last conference title threat, we've had nine head coaches and not one has been close to even competing for the Big Ten title. Could it be that there is something other than the head coach that has taken the UM football program from a regular top Big Ten team up until the 60s to one that hasn't been competitive since. Something that makes many Minnesota prospects want to play elsewhere and makes it difficult to recruit top out-of-state players? And it's not the weather.

Yes, the same thing that happened to Wisconsin before the magic coaching hire of Alvarez, who by the way, had a couple of bad years at the start. Let's hope Kill can do that for us.

 

[50PoundHead]

I think a lot of people are undervaluing Mason's tenure here. If you just glanced at the final standings you might say something like "he never finished higher than fourth" and while that is technically true it doesn't accurately describe his best seasons either. He was an OT loss to Wisconsin in 1999 and a 4th quarter collapse against Michigan in 2003 from going to the Rosebowl. He coached in an era when the Big 10 was extremely strong. In 2003, his best year, two of the three losses were to top 10 teams. In 1999 seven Big 10 teams were ranked including four in the top 11. If you could magically pluck Mason's 1999 or 2003 team and plunk it down in 2012 we would have been Rosebowl bound.

I think another thing lost by people in retrospect was the overall feeling of optimism during his tenure, especially early on. I entered every single game, outside of his very first seasons since he was starting from the mess left by decades of ineptness, with a feeling of hope we could win the game. With his rushing attack we always had a chance. There is something to be said for feeling like you have a chance to win a game. Contrast that with most of Brewsters or Kill's tenure. I have yet to feel like we could win a game against OSU or Michigan or Wisconsin. Most games (the big games against powerful opponents) I was thinking about what chores needed to happen around the house in the second half before the game even started. I really miss that feeling of optimism and hope.

I hate to weigh in on this and my stance has always been that the Mason era had run its course (just like the Tubby era) and he was basically a good X-and-O guy who was comfortable with that end of the job. But I wanted to highlight this quote, because I think the fact that Mason's teams managed to lose both the games cited in the paragraph instead of finding ways to win is pertinent. Sure, he had a couple of upsets and was victimized by a number of bad calls that sometimes directly led to a loss, but he was one of the worst coaches at making adjustments in game plans that I've watched. It's not that he's alone in that, but like short ornery norwegian says (and I paraphrase), I sat and watched many games thinking "What will go wrong today?" And some of that has to be laid at the feet of the coaching staff.

And I tire of the "lack of administrative support" schtick. Credo of whiners.

 

[imthewalrus]

I hate to weigh in on this and my stance has always been that the Mason era had run its course (just like the Tubby era) and he was basically a good X-and-O guy who was comfortable with that end of the job. But I wanted to highlight this quote, because I think the fact that Mason's teams managed to lose both the games cited in the paragraph instead of finding ways to win is pertinent. Sure, he had a couple of upsets and was victimized by a number of bad calls that sometimes directly led to a loss, but he was one of the worst coaches at making adjustments in game plans that I've watched. It's not that he's alone in that, but like short ornery norwegian says (and I paraphrase), I sat and watched many games thinking "What will go wrong today?" And some of that has to be laid at the feet of the coaching staff.

And I tire of the "lack of administrative support" schtick. Credo of whiners.

********** THIS is to respond to 50poundhead's reference to "lack of administrative support" jab**********PLEASE NOTE THIS RESPONSE to 50poundhead's remark***********

Lack of administrative support = abandoning MEMORIAL STADIUM/EAST BANK CAMPUS for becoming the third (in the position of the resident peon) tenant in the damn dome that was dominsted by the nfl and mlb and left the Gophers at the mercy of the professional dogs with no regard for the future of the program..

administrative idiocy = extending coaches, giving them raises and extended benefits, and within the year buying them out and firing them. That still is going on.

Keeping a failed athletic director on with WAY too much pay AFTER he retired...you know, a pay-off to him for being the former prexy's hit-man and heat-taker. Heads over at the U should roll because of this one...

Administrative support can NOT happen with incompetent administrators who surround themselves with layer after layer of high priced administrative assistants: look into this state legislators....

Just to name a couple...

There has been over half a century of pi$$ poor administrative action over at the U of M....Just look at the loss of stature and ranking for medicine and a number of other programs under the watch of the administrators of the past 50 years. Those administrative types were all too often just mailing it in and didn't have a clue how to make adjustments to keep up and hold their own. All too often those administrators got their butts handed to them by other academic institutions and their administrators. They totally subscribed to the credo of losers when compared to administrators at competing academic institutions they used to compete with...

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[Killjoy]

What Mason really lacked was.....

Lack of administrative support = abandoning MEMORIAL STADIUM/EAST BANK CAMPUS for becoming the third-peon tenant in the damn dome that was dominsted by the nfl and mlb and left the Gophers at the mercy of the professional dogs with no regard for the future of the program..

administrative idiocy = extending coaches and within the year buying them out and firing them.

Just to name a couple... There has been over half a century of pi$$ poor administrative action over at the U of M....Just look at the loss of stature and ranking for medicine and a number of other programs under the watch of the administrators of the past 50 years. Those administrative types were all too often just mailing it in and didn't have a clue how to make adjustments to keep up and hold their own. All too often those administrators got their butts handed to them by other academic institutions and their administrators. No they subscribed to the credo of losers when compared to administrators at competing academic institutions they used to compete with...

; 0 )

Enough of your revisionist history! What Mason lacked was the drive and desire to recruit, do public relations, and to play defense. Most of his problems were a result of this, i.e. himself. Like Tubby Smith, Mason would squander another lead in the fourth quarter and then would look totally befuddled as to what was happened. That was so enjoyable to watch. Also like Tubby, Mason wasn't a terrible coach but it was time for the both of them to move on. Speaking of moving on wren, I have noticed you are falling back to your old habits, i.e diverting a strings topic to your agenda and then saying the same thing over and over again. Enough of your revisionist history and enough of your same old agenda. It really gets boring.

 

[short ornery norwegian]

And, I always kind of had the attitude that a few people seem to have, but is not always the popular attitude. A few who like to say what they think probably also share the feeling that: "tramps like us...baby we were born to run..." So I run with what I think LesBorstad. I guess I feel pretty safe knowing that you think what ever you think of me...and I would assume that a heck of a lot more people here who try to make everyone on this site think and say the same things think the way you think about me. You are probably right about that. But, I just don't care LesBolstad. As always, I will lend my perspective on the situation...Life is good LesBolstad...try smiling once in a while...or are you just constipated or terminally grumpy?

; 0 )

Wren/Walrus: I would never have pegged you for a Springsteen fan. I would have guessed you were more of a "Golden" oldies guy.............

 

[imthewalrus]

"Wren/Walrus: I would never have pegged you for a Springsteen fan. I would have guessed you were more of a "Golden" oldies guy..." short ornery Norwegian:

S.O.N: I like a lot of music from a lot of different decades!



Springsteen, ZZ TOP, Eagles, Bob Seeger...and then, of course the Stones, Beatles, Doobies, Creedence Clearwater Revival (Fogerty) CTA (Chicago), you know S.O.N. you could call it "golden oldies", because I remember all of them from the mid-1950's all through the 1960's and the 1970's... All the way from Kingston Trio, Chad Mitchell Trio, the Drifters, Gladys Night, Mitchell, Biaz, Coasters, Elvis, Buddy Holly The Temptations, The Four Tops, Dion, Flying Burrito Bros, Grand Funk, Led Z., Beach Boys, Marvin Gaye, Stevie Wonder, Hendrix, Joplin, The Doors ...Bozz Scaggs, Crosby, Stills, Nash & Young, Clapton, Vanilla Fudge, Buffalo Springfield, Jefferson Airplane, Grateful Dead, The Rascals, Jackson Browne, Hall & Oats, and entirely too many more to list now.

I always liked and listened to a lot of music. I may have missed some stuff while I was stationed overseas...but I recall the Zombies ("She's not there" and started hearing Carole King's Tapestry album, quite a bit of credence , some of the first Eagles stuff, Temptations, Four Tops, Grass Roots in that 1968-1972 time frame overseas. Then the WHO, Guess Who,

I guess I'm nothing but an old "oldies" guy...don't know if "Golden" applies....first I was gray...then my hair went white...but I remember lyrics from songs with the best of 'em!

Basically the first rock song I remember was Bill Haley's Rock Around the Clock...I had some older cousins in California we went to visit and I still recall them having a 45 of that song...

You must be a youngster S.O.N.: were you a heavy metal fan? ( I never really appreciated that stuff and don't know it well) or were you more a child of the 70's...or 80's or ??...
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[Maximus]

I think a lot of people are undervaluing Mason's tenure here. If you just glanced at the final standings you might say something like "he never finished higher than fourth" and while that is technically true it doesn't accurately describe his best seasons either.

If you want to accurately describe his best seasons, you should start with having two of the easiest Big Ten schedules possible.

In 1999, Minnesota didn't play 6-2, 10-2 Michigan or 6-2, 10-2 Michigan State.

In 2003, Minnesota didn't play 6-2, 11-2 Ohio State or 6-2, 9-4 Purdue.

Neither team is finishing 5-3 in the Big Ten if those teams were on the schedule.

Brewster's best team finished 3-5 in the Big Ten without playing 1-7 Michigan or 1-7 Indiana.

 

[short ornery norwegian]

Walrus - don't want to hijack the thread into a discussion of music.

The "Golden" oldies was a (too-cute) reference to the Golden Gophers.

As far as being a "youngster," I'm 57. Huge Springsteen fan, but also like Dylan, the Who, reggae, delta blues, traditional Irish music, and even some punk (US & British).

 

[50PoundHead]

Response to iamthewalrus on my comments regarding the "lack of administrative support" schtick.

There's a difference between incompetence and lack of administrative support. There have been a ton of bad decisions made over the past four decades, especially in the major sports at the U, but I tire of these kind of goofy attacks that insinuate that the guy sitting in the Big Chair is saying to the Board of Regents, "Whatever we do, we simply can't have a good football or basketball team." That's not to say that there haven't been terrible hires and a raft of bad decisions, like splitting the total department into separate men's and women's departments, but again, I don't see any nefarious scheme afoot that the University administration was getting kick-backs from the University of Iowa and the University of Wisconsin to field bad teams. Last time I checked, McGrath, Hasselmo, Yudof, and Bruininks were never listed on the football roster, so they never missed a tackle or dropped a pass. I'm not going to defend bad hiring decisions, but that doesn't equate to "lack of administrative support."

Further, they never recruited a single player. That job falls to the coaching staffs in each sport and those are the guys who are responsible for putting the product on the field regardless of obstacles.

I agree with you on the idiocy of moving the games off-campus and down to the Metrodome. But who precipitated that move? All the downtown jock-sniffers represented in the personage of Sid Hartman. Ultimate responsibility falls to the administration for rolling over for the Vikings--the franchise that was almost totally at the heart at the Metrodome push--because without the U on board, the Metrodome probably doesn't get built. And the pressure to build that monstrosity was immense.

So I'm with you on that angle and if you want to blame the administration, fine. But I just tire of this lame excuse that somehow because of Malcolm Moos we decided to compete at the MIAC level. Loser's argument. Any coach worth his salt just sucks it up and goes.

 

[imthewalrus]

Response to iamthewalrus on my comments regarding the "lack of administrative support" schtick.

There's a difference between incompetence and lack of administrative support. There have been a ton of bad decisions made over the past four decades, especially in the major sports at the U, but I tire of these kind of goofy attacks that insinuate that the guy sitting in the Big Chair is saying to the Board of Regents, "Whatever we do, we simply can't have a good football or basketball team." That's not to say that there haven't been terrible hires and a raft of bad decisions, like splitting the total department into separate men's and women's departments, but again, I don't see any nefarious scheme afoot that the University administration was getting kick-backs from the University of Iowa and the University of Wisconsin to field bad teams. Last time I checked, McGrath, Hasselmo, Yudof, and Bruininks were never listed on the football roster, so they never missed a tackle or dropped a pass. I'm not going to defend bad hiring decisions, but that doesn't equate to "lack of administrative support."

Further, they never recruited a single player. That job falls to the coaching staffs in each sport and those are the guys who are responsible for putting the product on the field regardless of obstacles.

I agree with you on the idiocy of moving the games off-campus and down to the Metrodome. But who precipitated that move? All the downtown jock-sniffers represented in the personage of Sid Hartman. Ultimate responsibility falls to the administration for rolling over for the Vikings--the franchise that was almost totally at the heart at the Metrodome push--because without the U on board, the Metrodome probably doesn't get built. And the pressure to build that monstrosity was immense.

So I'm with you on that angle and if you want to blame the administration, fine. But I just tire of this lame excuse that somehow because of Malcolm Moos we decided to compete at the MIAC level. Loser's argument. Any coach worth his salt just sucks it up and goes.

WHY, when the U of M was on equal footing with Michigan and The Ohio State University did their administrations take the attitude that everything, including Football would be done in the spirit of seeking EXCELLENCE...while the U of M took on a very different approach to everything. Prior to Prexy Y coming to the U of M, the campus itself looked run-down, shabby, in decline? How about the Medical Schools rankings slipping? It was NOT just Football...it was pretty much everything...academics, plant, facilities, faculty retention, and, YES...Football, too. Has the University of Michigan been able to pretty much keep it all together more successfully than the University of Minnesota? Prexy Y actually started getting the ball rolling when he went out and raised over 2 BILLION DOLLARS to rehab parts of the campus that had gotten SO shabby and he even added to the endowment. Without adequate endowments a University is and will be on the decline. And you can never have either enough or too much endowment. Prexy Y did a decent job before bagging for Texas and then California.

However, I contend that the administrations at the University of Minnesota did not have the heart, soul, drive, desire and ambition for the most part to be equal with Michigan on every level. Was it neglect directed directly at football? No. It was just plain direct directed at the MISSIONS of the University of Minnesota and the COMMITTMENT to excellence was some where...some how...some way LOST in the quagmire that was the administrative layers at the University of Minnesota.

Ann Arbor could deal with the Lions and Tigers and Pistons and Red Wings being 50 miles away in Detroit while they saw fit to continue to construct their BIG HOUSE, one remodeling and expansion followed by another remodeling and expansion every decade or so. The U of M sort of lost it's soul and it's commitment to WANT TO COMPETE with the Michigan's of the Conference of which they were a member for academic AND athletic considerations. We count on our administrators at the U of M to go out there and COMPETE...to fight for the missions of the school and to find ways to enlist the support of the community to remain highly competitive...with the Michigans...the Ohio States...and yes...with the wisky/iowa types of Big Ten academic AND athletic competitions that the conference member schools NEED to maintain with one another...and here in Minnesota the levels of competition for ticket sales with the Vikings, twins, wild and timberwolves...The numerous presidents and administrations at the U of M failed to compete...on many levels and we are now forever playing catch-up...academically and athletically with most of the other B1G Conference members... many of them schools and institutions the U USED to have an advantage over...No matter what the odds: it is up to the chief administrators to want to compete on EVERY level. Academically AND athletically. Our administrators for the most part let us down. And they did not fully carry out the mission of the U in the spirit of EXCELLENCE and COMPETITION...within the Conference or within the community...



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[Formo]

Such a terrible firing that not 1 school has even seriously entertained the idea of hiring him.

They are confusing "bad firing" with "bad hiring".

This.

 

[GopherGack]

I hate to weigh in on this and my stance has always been that the Mason era had run its course (just like the Tubby era) and he was basically a good X-and-O guy who was comfortable with that end of the job. But I wanted to highlight this quote, because I think the fact that Mason's teams managed to lose both the games cited in the paragraph instead of finding ways to win is pertinent. Sure, he had a couple of upsets and was victimized by a number of bad calls that sometimes directly led to a loss, but he was one of the worst coaches at making adjustments in game plans that I've watched. It's not that he's alone in that, but like short ornery norwegian says (and I paraphrase), I sat and watched many games thinking "What will go wrong today?" And some of that has to be laid at the feet of the coaching staff.

And I tire of the "lack of administrative support" schtick. Credo of whiners.

I don't have any problems with that (well really I'm not sure I agree but it's not worth arguing about). Minnesota had 2 fantastic seasons in 1999 and 2003. We were so close to going to the Rosebowl. For whatever reason people just want to sweep these under the rug and pretend like these were typical poor Minnesota teams. I think that is a disgrace to the University, the coaches, the players and the fans. Be proud of these seasons. Own them. Because they did happen and they were good seasons.

 

[GopherGack]

If you want to accurately describe his best seasons, you should start with having two of the easiest Big Ten schedules possible.

In 1999, Minnesota didn't play 6-2, 10-2 Michigan or 6-2, 10-2 Michigan State.

In 2003, Minnesota didn't play 6-2, 11-2 Ohio State or 6-2, 9-4 Purdue.

Neither team is finishing 5-3 in the Big Ten if those teams were on the schedule.

Brewster's best team finished 3-5 in the Big Ten without playing 1-7 Michigan or 1-7 Indiana.

I'm not sure what your point is. You can only play the teams your scheduled to play.

In 1999 Minnesota beat undefeated and then ranked #2 Penn State at PSU and lost to eventual Big10 champs and lost to #4 ranked Wisconsin by 3 in overtime. We also won at #24 Illinois 37-7. You seem to be implying we would have been destined to lose those games when in reality that is anything but a given. Especially in a year where we gave two top 10 ranked teams everything they could handle.

In 2003 we only played 2 teams that were ranked at the end of the year. #6 Michigan we gave everything they wanted and at #8 Iowa where we didn't show up. Again, you seem to be making the point we would be guaranteed to lose against OSU or Purdue. If that's the case how did we absolutely dominate Michigan for 3 quarters? Maybe we would have lost to OSU and Purdue but it is anything but the given you seem to be implying.

I don't understand this need or desire perhaps by some fans to denigrate the 2 best seasons of Gopher Football in the last 20 years or perhaps 40 years. Sure maybe Gopher Football hasn't been as good as we would have like over the last 40 years. Perhaps Mason angered fans for whatever reason. But some people seem to let that anger at the coach get in the way of what the University accomplished in those seasons. Don't the University staff, players and fans deserve to be praised when they play well and have good seasons even if you dislike the coach at some personal level? 1999 and 2003 were very good football teams. Be proud of that. Be proud of the players.

 

[imthewalrus]

I'm not sure what your point is. You can only play the teams your scheduled to play.

In 1999 Minnesota beat undefeated and then ranked #2 Penn State at PSU and lost to eventual Big10 champs and lost to #4 ranked Wisconsin by 3 in overtime. We also won at #24 Illinois 37-7. You seem to be implying we would have been destined to lose those games when in reality that is anything but a given. Especially in a year where we gave two top 10 ranked teams everything they could handle. In 2003 we only played 2 teams that were ranked at the end of the year. #6 Michigan we gave everything they wanted and at #8 Iowa where we didn't show up. Again, you seem to be making the point we would be guaranteed to lose against OSU or Purdue. If that's the case how did we absolutely dominate Michigan for 3 quarters? Maybe we would have lost to OSU and Purdue but it is anything but the given you seem to be implying. I don't understand this need or desire perhaps by some fans to denigrate the 2 best seasons of Gopher Football in the last 20 years or perhaps 40 years. Sure maybe Gopher Football hasn't been as good as we would have like over the last 40 years. Perhaps Mason angered fans for whatever reason. But some people seem to let that anger at the coach get in the way of what the University accomplished in those seasons. Don't the University staff, players and fans deserve to be praised when they play well and have good seasons even if you dislike the coach at some personal level? 1999 and 2003 were very good football teams. Be proud of that. Be proud of the players.

You have captured the essence of what is REALLY important. Honor those Great young men who played very well for the U of M...some even earning All-American and All Big Ten HONORS. Celebrate those few years that were such a joy for fans to watch. Were they perfect years? No. But they were the BEST years I have seen in a Many...many decades.
Now we are only hoping to get to the level of competition that we experienced. I am hoping...I am thinking that if all goes well, we just may accomplish that at the University of Minnesota. But how can ANYONE try to diminish what those young men accomplished just because they didn't like a coach....or...some of the fans? Can some people really be so focused on their mission as to totally ignore the great young men who made up those teams in 1999 and 2003? If they think they are hurting a former coach or some fans who had a different point of view then they had, they are sadly mistaken. The vendetta that some have against that former coach, et al. probably will not cease. But let us all agree that some of those All-Big Ten and All-American players and their teammates deserve utmost respect, some praise and we need to celebrate that those moments in time really DID exist. Thank you once again for the BEST post I have read on this site in many years...MANY years...

; 0 )

 

[Maximus]

I'm not sure what your point is. You can only play the teams your scheduled to play.

Point: Those two teams were given the benefit of an easy Big Ten schedule and a joke of a non-conference schedule. I was pointing out that in year three of his tenure with his best team, Brewster had to play #8 California and didn't get to play 1-7 Michigan or 1-7 Indiana. It's called perspective.

In 1999 ... You seem to be implying we would have been destined to lose those games when in reality that is anything but a given. Especially in a year where we gave two top 10 ranked teams everything they could handle.

Destined as in Destiny? Yes, exactly what I was implying. Why? Glen Mason's entire coaching career. He doesn't win conference titles. He does find ways to blow nearly insurmountable leads. He does make boneheaded coaching decisions. I'm assuming every single year you could pull out at least one example that makes you go "c'mon, how is that even possible???" Like this: his best team was his 10-2 Kansas team that throttled #11 UCLA in its bowl game, was outscored 82-10 in its two losses. How is that possible? Or you just beat #5 Ohio State in Columbus and then give up 51 points and lose at putrid Indiana the following week in 2000. How is that possible? Thinking about it, that might be a fun game. Might give it a try.

In 2003...If that's the case how did we absolutely dominate Michigan for 3 quarters? Maybe we would have lost to OSU and Purdue but it is anything but the given you seem to be implying.

Seems quite reasonable as many here "imply" that it is a "given" that Minnesota beats Michigan State if the Gophers had beaten Michigan. As for dominating Michigan for three quarters, see notes on 1999 with coach's history of brief bouts of coaching ineptitude and history of 'how is that possible?'.

Don't the University staff, players and fans deserve to be praised when they play well and have good seasons even if you dislike the coach at some personal level? 1999 and 2003 were very good football teams. Be proud of that. Be proud of the players.

Give it a rest. Message boards are for debates, opinions, passion, discussion. For some ; 0 ) , it's all passion and just one opinion repeated over and over and over but I digress.

 

[GopherGack]

Point: Those two teams were given the benefit of an easy Big Ten schedule and a joke of a non-conference schedule. I was pointing out that in year three of his tenure with his best team, Brewster had to play #8 California and didn't get to play 1-7 Michigan or 1-7 Indiana. It's called perspective.

You mean that same Cal team that ended the season unranked? Since you seem intent on pushing this '09 squad let's look at the teams (I really dislike doing this because it casts a harsh light on some Gopher squads and I in no way wanted to do that).

1999
Played 4 teams ranked at the end of the season.
Finished 2-2 against them including a win over then undefeated and #2 ranked PSU (they finished at #11) and a 3 point OT loss to eventual Big10 Champion and 10-2 Wisconsin.
Against those 4 ranked teams the combined score was 106-83 for the Gophers.
Minnesota finished the season ranked #18
One overtime from going to the Rosebowl.

2003
Played 2 teams ranked at end of the season (#6 Michigan and #8 Iowa)
Finished 0-2 but dominated eventual Rosebowl bound #8 Michigan for 3 quarters and eventually lost 38-35.
Combined score 57-78.
Finished the season ranked #20.
One quarter from going to the Rosebowl

2009
Also played 4 ranked teams that ended the season ranked.
Finished 0-4 against them.
Combined score was 35-101.
Minnesota was never ranked at any point during this season.
Minnesota was never in the hunt for the Rosebowl.


I think it's fairly obvious that the '99 and '03 squads were significantly better teams. I also think it's obvious your dislike of Mason is clouding your judgement on these 3 seasons. Why can't you acknowledge the players and staff members that worked hard and had a lot of success these years? Given that these have been the only two bright spots in an otherwise dreary past 20 years for Gopher football I'd think you'd be shouting from the roof tops with joy at those seasons. I guess some people just can't get past who the coach was.

 

[50PoundHead]

I don't have any problems with that (well really I'm not sure I agree but it's not worth arguing about). Minnesota had 2 fantastic seasons in 1999 and 2003. We were so close to going to the Rosebowl. For whatever reason people just want to sweep these under the rug and pretend like these were typical poor Minnesota teams. I think that is a disgrace to the University, the coaches, the players and the fans. Be proud of these seasons. Own them. Because they did happen and they were good seasons.

I'm not sweeping anything under the rug. Mason had two really fine seasons (and we would have gone to the Rose Bowl if he would have made some adjustments against Michigan) out of ten and his bad seasons weren't abysmal, but his supporters seem to think we fired Knute Frickin' Rockne. I don't hate Mason. I support the players (always have and always will). I'm proud of them always and really avoid criticizing them at every juncture. But things run their course and Mason's tenure had run his. Like Formo wrote succinctly, people always use the subsequent "hire" to attack the "fire." Clearly, the transition was negative, but that is damning Mason with faint praise.