TCF's lack of heating coils

[iksnimak]

Can someone find out about this?

I am 99.9% sure that Wisconsin does not have it.

 

[Buck_Buchanan]

I got into a spirited debate with one of my Hawkeye friends at the game on Saturday. He was wondering why there wasn't heating coils built into the new stadium. He said they have them at Kinnick and other Big Ten venues. He was surprised since we were the northernmost location in the Big Ten. I countered and said that they would only be necessary one or two games a year. He seemed to think with as big as college football has gotten that they should have been a necessity and thought the field conditions were ridiculous for the Iowa/Minnesota game in 2010. I was wondering if any of you had insight on why heating coils weren't included with the stadium and what other Big Ten stadiums actually have them?

Phil Miller did an article on this when Vikes played Bears last year on MNF. Feasibility study was done, extra cost was $1,000,000 plus the maintanence and was deemed that rarely they'd need to be used - so you rightly countered the argument. Not all B1G stadiums have them and I'd argue very few, in fact, do. The link: http://homepages.cae.wisc.edu/~dwilson/rsfc/stadiums.txt has lists of field surfaces. Scroll down to Surface Key once there.


2 ITEMS I WOULD HAVE NOTED in your debate:

First, field conditions are equally as good / bad for both teams regardless of when you play one another. At no time, before, during, or after the 2010 was the surface deemed as "unplayable". Nor, at any post-game interviews that I saw (via video) of Ferentz, Horton, Minn or IOWA players, were surface issues brought up. This is a classic case of Fandom Attribution Theory. In other words, prescribing reasons for why my favorite team won or in this case lost.

Second, I would have also counter-argued with him, "With as big as cfb has gotten, How does your University keep up the wonderful "practice and playing" surfaces in Iowa City?" "You know, the ones that have such a solid reputation of tearing up the ACL's of your RB's."

 

[disco]

Coils? I'm still disappointed we don't have real grass.

I felt that way at first, but I understand why. The stadium is also the home of the marching band too. It has to be a lot cheaper to maintain the turf. Plus, it's not like the astroturf of the 70's. Todays artificial surfaces are a lot better than the old days.

 

[zambam]

I felt that way at first, but I understand why. The stadium is also the home of the marching band too. It has to be a lot cheaper to maintain the turf. Plus, it's not like the astroturf of the 70's. Todays artificial surfaces are a lot better than the old days.

I love the turf at my school. It's awesome

 

[maliksealy]

Phil Miller did an article on this when Vikes played Bears last year on MNF. Feasibility study was done, extra cost was $1,000,000 plus the maintanence and was deemed that rarely they'd need to be used - so you rightly countered the argument. Not all B1G stadiums have them and I'd argue very few, in fact, do. The link: http://homepages.cae.wisc.edu/~dwilson/rsfc/stadiums.txt has lists of field surfaces. Scroll down to Surface Key once there.


2 ITEMS I WOULD HAVE NOTED in your debate:

First, field conditions are equally as good / bad for both teams regardless of when you play one another. At no time, before, during, or after the 2010 was the surface deemed as "unplayable". Nor, at any post-game interviews that I saw (via video) of Ferentz, Horton, Minn or IOWA players, were surface issues brought up. This is a classic case of Fandom Attribution Theory. In other words, prescribing reasons for why my favorite team won or in this case lost.

Second, I would have also counter-argued with him, "With as big as cfb has gotten, How does your University keep up the wonderful "practice and playing" surfaces in Iowa City?" "You know, the ones that have such a solid reputation of tearing up the ACL's of your RB's."

Here is my friends response:

Good stuff but I see several major flaws in this thread...this would be my 10 minute response (feel free to post on my behalf):

1.) The list of field surfaces that he cited is well-dated. It still says Iowa is playing on grass.
2.) The same list does not have a designation for Artificial Turf with coils. It bunches them all together in the artificial bucket. The only mention of coils or pipes is under real grass and as you can see from the list, it is mostly underneath warm weather fields that still had natural grass at the time this list was made and i presume they were/are used to drain the field in most of the cases, ie. Texas, FL St., Bama, etc (quality programs might I add).
3.) Fan Attribution Theory - nice usage of your sociology degree my friend. At what point through any of this was the conversation about Iowa losing the game because of the field? I, and virtually every other Iowa fan/coach/player after the game never placed blame on the field for how *&^!#*&^!#*&^!#*&^!#ty we played but dozens of people within the U of M program and withing the greater college and professional football network made explicit comments about the conditions of the field. Based upon TFC Bank's turf in the Iowa game, many of the NFL analyst believed that playing on that field was not a good idea...even after they had much more time to try to make it playable. So again, this thread was created to debate the need for some technology to help make the field safe and playable in the cold and sometimes snowy months of Oct. and Nov in central MN. This came from the Vikings punter on Dec. 19, 2010:
http://chicago.sbnation.com/chicago...s-vikings-may-play-dec-20-at-tcf-bank-stadium

Minnesota Vikings Punter Chris Kluwe Says TCF Bank Stadium Field 'Unplayable'

The Minnesota Vikings got a tour of the field at TCF Bank Stadium on Sunday, and, according to Chicago Breaking Sports, Vikings punter Chris Kluwe declared the field “unplayable” and “concrete” in a series of posts on his Twitter account.
After 11 tweets about the field conditions and replies to various Twitter followers, the NFL apparently muzzled Kluwe:

4.) Not sure about the relevance of the ACL injuries as it compares to this debate, but it is a point well taken. That is a problem and whether or not it is something to do with the practice field or not, we are not sparing any cost to make our complex safe. Take a look at the measures being taken to take Iowa's football facilities from very good to one of the absolute best in all of CFB. http://thegazette.com/2011/06/02/iowa-to-break-ground-on-football-practice-facility-this-fall/
Here is a video of the plans that have now broken ground with a 50 million dollar budget http://www.hawkeyesports.com/allaccess/?media=252722.

 

[RodentRampage]

The conditions in mid-December don't necessarily say a thing about the conditions in November.

 

[Formo]

Here is my friends response:

Good stuff but I see several major flaws in this thread...this would be my 10 minute response (feel free to post on my behalf):

1.) The list of field surfaces that he cited is well-dated. It still says Iowa is playing on grass.
2.) The same list does not have a designation for Artificial Turf with coils. It bunches them all together in the artificial bucket. The only mention of coils or pipes is under real grass and as you can see from the list, it is mostly underneath warm weather fields that still had natural grass at the time this list was made and i presume they were/are used to drain the field in most of the cases, ie. Texas, FL St., Bama, etc (quality programs might I add).
3.) Fan Attribution Theory - nice usage of your sociology degree my friend. At what point through any of this was the conversation about Iowa losing the game because of the field? I, and virtually every other Iowa fan/coach/player after the game never placed blame on the field for how *&^!#*&^!#*&^!#*&^!#ty we played but dozens of people within the U of M program and withing the greater college and professional football network made explicit comments about the conditions of the field. Based upon TFC Bank's turf in the Iowa game, many of the NFL analyst believed that playing on that field was not a good idea...even after they had much more time to try to make it playable. So again, this thread was created to debate the need for some technology to help make the field safe and playable in the cold and sometimes snowy months of Oct. and Nov in central MN. This came from the Vikings punter on Dec. 19, 2010:
http://chicago.sbnation.com/chicago...s-vikings-may-play-dec-20-at-tcf-bank-stadium

Minnesota Vikings Punter Chris Kluwe Says TCF Bank Stadium Field 'Unplayable'

The Minnesota Vikings got a tour of the field at TCF Bank Stadium on Sunday, and, according to Chicago Breaking Sports, Vikings punter Chris Kluwe declared the field “unplayable” and “concrete” in a series of posts on his Twitter account.
After 11 tweets about the field conditions and replies to various Twitter followers, the NFL apparently muzzled Kluwe:

4.) Not sure about the relevance of the ACL injuries as it compares to this debate, but it is a point well taken. That is a problem and whether or not it is something to do with the practice field or not, we are not sparing any cost to make our complex safe. Take a look at the measures being taken to take Iowa's football facilities from very good to one of the absolute best in all of CFB. http://thegazette.com/2011/06/02/iowa-to-break-ground-on-football-practice-facility-this-fall/
Here is a video of the plans that have now broken ground with a 50 million dollar budget http://www.hawkeyesports.com/allaccess/?media=252722.

Yeah, a flaming hypocrite PUNTER for the Minnesota Vikings complaining about the 'unplayability' of the turf at TCF Stadium hours after Gopher and Viking fans alike spent a WEEK shoveling out said stadium is a valid counter-point to the conditions of a game that happened almost a full month prior.

Yes, I'm still pissed off at Kluwe for his retarded comments for many reasons, the biggest being that his ignorance to the hard work of all the fans that brought their own gear and spent a week trying to shovel out the place so their favorite NFL team could set records with how bad they could get beat by a division rival.

 

[GophersInIowa]

The conditions in mid-December don't necessarily say a thing about the conditions in November.

Yep, the Vikings game from last year is totally irreverent to the Gophers as 1) they will never be playing there in mid-December and b) the Vikings game was not planned so the stadium staff did nothing to try to keep the field in good condition leading up to the game.

 

[GoAUpher]

Yes, I'm still pissed off at Kluwe for his retarded comments for many reasons, the biggest being that his ignorance to the hard work of all the fans that brought their own gear and spent a week trying to shovel out the place so their favorite NFL team could set records with how bad they could get beat by a division rival.

To be fair, Kluwe's "call it as he sees it" approach has led to much more awesomeness then annoyance. The guy is hilarious most of the time. But yea, count me in the group that was annoyed by his talk before that game.

 

[imthewalrus]

It's just a college football stadium and games are only played unti the end of November, at the latest, depending on the schedule from year to year.

Let the wimps cry and NEVER let the stinking nfl teams play in the stadium.

Let the wimpy viking punter move to LA along with the rest of his stinking teammates.

No wimps allowed in TCF BANK STADIUM.

Let the iowa jerks just shut up and play Big Ten Football where ever they are scheduled to play it. Stadiums cost too damn much the way it is. Let 'em play on dirt if that costs less and holds up better!

; 0 )

 

[Formo]

To be fair, Kluwe's "call it as he sees it" approach has led to much more awesomeness then annoyance. The guy is hilarious most of the time. But yea, count me in the group that was annoyed by his talk before that game.

I would have agreed with you prior to last December. Since then, he's been nothing but an arrogant prick (still defends his stance when questioned about it).

 

[zambam]

Oh no Chris Kluwe doesn't like TCF Bank Stadium's field, despite his general awesomeness I now hate him. Lol.

 

[TLHGO4]

Did a Google search on college football fields with heating systems. The only one referenced was Virginia Tech. Iowa does not have one. This thread is referenced on Google. NFL fields with them are Lambeau, Cleveland, New England, Washington, Seattle, Philly, Chicago, Denver, and Pittsburgh.

 

[RailBaronYarr]

Agree with the other posters that back up there are none in the B1G with heated coils underneath. Look at UW or Iowa's own website on their stadiums. They've both undergone major renovations in the last ~5 years and if they had heater coils installed it would surely be stated. They don't. Everyone can shut up because it isn't a big deal during B1G play and if (for whatever reason) the stadium needs to be used later in the year and we know it advance it won't be a problem, either. The NFL even came through specifically to investigate field conditions and ruled it ok to play on. Given how mamby pamby they are that says it was perfectly fine.

By the way, has anyone noticed what exceptionally nice weather we've been having in Minneapolis on gamedays this year? I've been tracking temperature and conditions for all Saturdays for B1G country and we've been sunny almost every game and warmer than almost every city (Lincoln and Champagn are typically as warm or warmer). Been a great year so far and anyone who complains about outdoor football in MN is crazy. Seriously.

 

[GoAUpher]

I would have agreed with you prior to last December. Since then, he's been nothing but an arrogant prick (still defends his stance when questioned about it).

Even with that EPIC Deadspin opinion piece he did during the lockout? That hilarious bit is when I forgot all about his tweeting.

 

[station19]

Agree with the other posters that back up there are none in the B1G with heated coils underneath. Look at UW or Iowa's own website on their stadiums. They've both undergone major renovations in the last ~5 years and if they had heater coils installed it would surely be stated. They don't. Everyone can shut up because it isn't a big deal during B1G play and if (for whatever reason) the stadium needs to be used later in the year and we know it advance it won't be a problem, either. The NFL even came through specifically to investigate field conditions and ruled it ok to play on. Given how mamby pamby they are that says it was perfectly fine.

By the way, has anyone noticed what exceptionally nice weather we've been having in Minneapolis on gamedays this year? I've been tracking temperature and conditions for all Saturdays for B1G country and we've been sunny almost every game and warmer than almost every city (Lincoln and Champagn are typically as warm or warmer). Been a great year so far and anyone who complains about outdoor football in MN is crazy. Seriously.

No problem with outdoor football in sept, oct and nov.

Big problem with outdoor football in dec and jan.

Speaking in Mn of course.

 

[In IT for the ∫e ͯ]

There is a reason players get made fun of when they get tackled/taken out of bounds by a kicker/punter. Kluwe is just a big pu$$y, he has practically a 0% chance of getting hit and landing on the ground in a game yet HE is the one complaining about the surface for the field.

 

[Ole]

There is a reason players get made fun of when they get tackled/taken out of bounds by a kicker/punter. Kluwe is just a big pu$$y, he has practically a 0% chance of getting hit and landing on the ground in a game yet HE is the one complaining about the surface for the field.

That game was an embarrassment for the Vikings in so many ways, it truly displayed for me the difference between the NFL and college, and was the end of my Viking fandom. I grew up wearing John Randle facepaint around the house on Sundays, a HARDcore viking fan who lived and died with that team.
Then they bring in the #1 enemy to "save" our franchise, i lost faith, they won alot, it wasn't the same cheering for a guy I'd hated since I could remember.

Then came the game at TCF bank, all week the buildup, fans chipping in to help out, then snow on Monday Night Football, Bud grant taking the jacket off in pregame, 50th anniversary Farve shows up and wants to play, basically nobody else does.
Kluwe mocks the fans when he shanks 2-3 punts horribly, waving his hands and smiling, Mckinnie basically quits in the 2nd quarter and gets his QB killed by a DE Jeff Wills had handled the season before.

I'd had cut Kluwe on the field that night he was so disrespectful to the fans and the tradition, but I realized then that the Minnesota Vikings don't play for Minnesota, most don't live here year round, and they couldn't care less about the fans besides the money they bring in.
Not so for the college kids who go to school here, and live here, and play for pride when their season goes down the drain.
A true Minnesota team like the Golden Gophers is easy to cheer for.

 

[tikited]

Jeez, just put a roof over TCF = problem solved.

 

[RodentRampage]

Outdoor football in Minnesota in December or January might require heating coils, but if the cold weather is more of a problem for your opponent than for you, seems pretty good to me. I can't imagine that if we a Lambeau Dome were proposed in Green Bay that it would go over too well.

 

[zambam]

That game was an embarrassment for the Vikings in so many ways, it truly displayed for me the difference between the NFL and college, and was the end of my Viking fandom. I grew up wearing John Randle facepaint around the house on Sundays, a HARDcore viking fan who lived and died with that team.
Then they bring in the #1 enemy to "save" our franchise, i lost faith, they won alot, it wasn't the same cheering for a guy I'd hated since I could remember.

Then came the game at TCF bank, all week the buildup, fans chipping in to help out, then snow on Monday Night Football, Bud grant taking the jacket off in pregame, 50th anniversary Farve shows up and wants to play, basically nobody else does.
Kluwe mocks the fans when he shanks 2-3 punts horribly, waving his hands and smiling, Mckinnie basically quits in the 2nd quarter and gets his QB killed by a DE Jeff Wills had handled the season before.

I'd had cut Kluwe on the field that night he was so disrespectful to the fans and the tradition, but I realized then that the Minnesota Vikings don't play for Minnesota, most don't live here year round, and they couldn't care less about the fans besides the money they bring in.
Not so for the college kids who go to school here, and live here, and play for pride when their season goes down the drain.
A true Minnesota team like the Golden Gophers is easy to cheer for.

You do realize the kicks Kluwe "shanked" were being kicked out of bounds so Hester wouldn't get them and he was putting his arms up like that because he was doing his job and getting booed for it. He said it when he was on ESPN2 the other day, if you don't want to kick to Hester you can only kick it like 20 yards out of bounds. Kluwe is one of the best punters in the league, we are lucky to have him.
How are the Gophers a true Minnesota team? Have they ever had to play in the conditions the Vikings did last year? No. Have they brought someone in from our biggest rival? Yes. Think KIM ROYSTON. You're arguments are ignorant at best.

 

[RodentRampage]

How are the Gophers a true Minnesota team? Have they ever had to play in the conditions the Vikings did last year? No. Have they brought someone in from our biggest rival? Yes. Think KIM ROYSTON. You're arguments are ignorant at best.

That's easy. The Gophers will never leave Minnesota. The Gophers would still be playing in Memorial Stadium if they weren't pressured into the Metrodome. The great grandchildren of people born today will in all likelyhood still be attending Gophers home games at TCF Bank Stadium - the name may change, but it will be the same building. Bringing in a transfer from a rival doesn't make the Gophers any less a "true Minnesota team". They don't play at home in December or January, but that means nothing. They play during the college season.

 

[zambam]

That's easy. The Gophers will never leave Minnesota. The Gophers would still be playing in Memorial Stadium if they weren't pressured into the Metrodome. The great grandchildren of people born today will in all likelyhood still be attending Gophers home games at TCF Bank Stadium - the name may change, but it will be the same building. Bringing in a transfer from a rival doesn't make the Gophers any less a "true Minnesota team". They don't play at home in December or January, but that means nothing. They play during the college season.

I realize that, but Ole didn't make an argument that the Gophers are a true Minnesota team because they'll never leave. The Vikings will only leave because the Dome is a dump, and unlike the Gophers, Minnesota won't help them build a stadium which would actually be good for this state.

 

[Schnauzer]

Ole's comments made a lot of sense to me. I totally get what he was saying. It looks to me like someone just wanted to argue with him for the sake of an argument. Yay message board... gonna git u sucka!

 

[zambam]

Ole's comments made a lot of sense to me. I totally get what he was saying. It looks to me like someone just wanted to argue with him for the sake of an argument. Yay message board... gonna git u sucka!

Not true, I argued because I disagreed. My sports fandom will always go 1. Gophers Basketball 2. Vikings 3. Gophers Football

 

[In IT for the ∫e ͯ]

You do realize the kicks Kluwe "shanked" were being kicked out of bounds so Hester wouldn't get them and he was putting his arms up like that because he was doing his job and getting booed for it. He said it when he was on ESPN2 the other day, if you don't want to kick to Hester you can only kick it like 20 yards out of bounds. Kluwe is one of the best punters in the league, we are lucky to have him.
How are the Gophers a true Minnesota team? Have they ever had to play in the conditions the Vikings did last year? No. Have they brought someone in from our biggest rival? Yes. Think KIM ROYSTON. You're arguments are ignorant at best.

I did watch the game just don't remember to much about it so I could be wrong on Kluwe's shanked punts. Either way, you don't need to shank a punt to not kick to Hester, you just need to kick it to where he isn't. You could still kick it 50 yards down field, but at an angle so that it goes out of bounds instead of to him.

 

[zambam]

I did watch the game just don't remember to much about it so I could be wrong on Kluwe's shanked punts. Either way, you don't need to shank a punt to not kick to Hester, you just need to kick it to where he isn't. You could still kick it 50 yards down field, but at an angle so that it goes out of bounds instead of to him.

He tried that on his last punt and it ended up being a foot from going out of bounds and hester caught it and took it back.

 

[Ole]

You do realize the kicks Kluwe "shanked" were being kicked out of bounds so Hester wouldn't get them and he was putting his arms up like that because he was doing his job and getting booed for it. He said it when he was on ESPN2 the other day, if you don't want to kick to Hester you can only kick it like 20 yards out of bounds. Kluwe is one of the best punters in the league, we are lucky to have him.
How are the Gophers a true Minnesota team? Have they ever had to play in the conditions the Vikings did last year? No. Have they brought someone in from our biggest rival? Yes. Think KIM ROYSTON. You're arguments are ignorant at best.

1)BS, those were horrible punts, he didn't want to be there that day.

2)They play outdoors at home in November, that gets more respect from me than the dome in Dec. No running scared from the weather like the vikes did that day.
3)Kim Royston wasn't the gophers #1 enemy for the better part of 2 decades, and he went to great lengths to come back and play here for his hometown team.

I get that you're a hardcore vikes fan, I was too. I just can't get excited for their games anymore because I realized they don't give a crap about Minnesota, virtually none of them live here year round, they have no connection to Minnesota beyond their job is here.
I'm still a fan, but i just can't find it in myself to live and die with the vikings anymore.

 

[GophersInIowa]

You do realize the kicks Kluwe "shanked" were being kicked out of bounds so Hester wouldn't get them and he was putting his arms up like that because he was doing his job and getting booed for it. He said it when he was on ESPN2 the other day, if you don't want to kick to Hester you can only kick it like 20 yards out of bounds. Kluwe is one of the best punters in the league, we are lucky to have him.

The problem with your argument is
a) Hester had a PR for a TD in that game, so at least on one kick (a 34-yarder too by the way), he failed.
b) Four of his six punts were 34 yards or shorter, including a 25 yarder. I understand that he was trying to kick it away from Hester, but he should be able to get a few 40+ yarders out of bounce too.
c) Why do you have to kick it 20 yards out of bounce? I know it's not that easy to kick it just a few yards out of bounce every time, but c'mon. Again, he should have been able to get a few 40+ yarders out of bounce.

I'm not disagreeing with him being a good punter, I think he is. But he did have a bad game that day.

 

[RailBaronYarr]

You do realize the kicks Kluwe "shanked" were being kicked out of bounds so Hester wouldn't get them and he was putting his arms up like that because he was doing his job and getting booed for it. He said it when he was on ESPN2 the other day, if you don't want to kick to Hester you can only kick it like 20 yards out of bounds. Kluwe is one of the best punters in the league, we are lucky to have him.
How are the Gophers a true Minnesota team? Have they ever had to play in the conditions the Vikings did last year? No. Have they brought someone in from our biggest rival? Yes. Think KIM ROYSTON. You're arguments are ignorant at best.

Agree with Ole. Kluwe was doing his job but still did a terrible job at what he did. Don't tell me you can't punt a ball out of bounds more than 20 yards downfield, especially if you are one of the best punters in the league. I know Hester is dangerous (and yes, in that game returned a punt for TD, also at Chi a few years back when pinned in the corner by Kluwe) but you can do a better job. His attitude towards our fans was clearly of disrespect and "I don't give a damn what you think."

I also agree that trying to compare a transfer like Royston from WI who played 1 season (sat his first) at our rival and in no way was the face of the program to Brett Favre, Superbowl/MVP winner, identity of the Green Bay Packers for years. The Favre situation at the end of his career is exactly why I dislike the NFL (there are many things I DO enjoy) compared to college football. Royston admitted he made a mistake by going to Wisconsin and came back to play for his hometown team for 2 seasons after sitting out a year. Favre would have played for anyone.

Ole is also correct in saying that most people on the Vikings could care less if they played in MN, Washington, LA, wherever as long as they get paid. There are people on the team who played for Iowa (ahem Greenway) and help the negative media image of the U instead of being neutral to the hometown team where fans support his salary through tickets and tv revenue. One of the reasons I was so impressed with Adrian Peterson is how quickly he came up to MN, bought a place to stay during parts of the season, got involved in local charities and programs, and endeared himself to this fanbase/area. But he is definitely in the minority.