Taurus Samuels Commits to Gophers!!

Gopherfan84

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There was no reason for Ben to take unnecessary risks last season. Season was going to be a disaster on the record books and in the standings no matter what. He had a free pass and used it.

I’m on board with character. But he also has to get enough talented players to win games in a system less and less oriented toward developing freshmen. That’s the part that has me frustrated with what appears from the outside looking in to be one shooter in the portal away from being potentially really good. I would have thought the addition of Garcia might attract a shooter. So far it hasn’t.
It’s really hard to add 9 high end guys in one year especially when you are just hired. Ben used March-May to get last years team mostly in tact. He choose one year guys because he knew he can rebuild again, but if he has a summer for high school kids and a spring portal season where he only needs 3-4 it’s more reasonable to pull off what an ISU did. He’s done that so far this year. I would love one more wing too, but not at the sacrifice of Carringtons development unless it’s a truly dynamic player. I don’t see that type coming here. Those guys are getting big time NIL dollars or seem to be choosing a Stanford grad degree.
 

Dakota2

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You just said Mn can’t attract top portal talent. Fail.
I said Minnesota was a failed program when Johnson took over. He has started to change that perception but anyone but a juvenile twit -- hi Barnaby -- knows that takes time. We had several high profile targets who chose high profile schools. Imagine that.
 


RockChalk

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It’s really hard to add 9 high end guys in one year especially when you are just hired. Ben used March-May to get last years team mostly in tact. He choose one year guys because he knew he can rebuild again, but if he has a summer for high school kids and a spring portal season where he only needs 3-4 it’s more reasonable to pull off what an ISU did. He’s done that so far this year. I would love one more wing too, but not at the sacrifice of Carringtons development unless it’s a truly dynamic player. I don’t see that type coming here. Those guys are getting big time NIL dollars or seem to be choosing a Stanford grad degree.
I would be careful comparing Johnson to Otzelberger. The Cyclones won 2 games the year before. What he did in the toughest conference in college BB was a big WOW.
 

BarnBurner

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I said Minnesota was a failed program when Johnson took over. He has started to change that perception but anyone but a juvenile twit -- hi Barnaby -- knows that takes time. We had several high profile targets who chose high profile schools. Imagine that.
Takes time. Except other schools. See Otzelberger, TJ.

Fail.
 


MNVCGUY

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There was no reason for Ben to take unnecessary risks last season. Season was going to be a disaster on the record books and in the standings no matter what. He had a free pass and used it.

I’m on board with character. But he also has to get enough talented players to win games in a system less and less oriented toward developing freshmen. That’s the part that has me frustrated with what appears from the outside looking in to be one shooter in the portal away from being potentially really good. I would have thought the addition of Garcia might attract a shooter. So far it hasn’t.
Maybe they believe that shooter is already on the roster. That gets overlooked when people talk about adding another piece.
 


Gopherfan84

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I would be careful comparing Johnson to Otzelberger. The Cyclones won 2 games the year before. What he did in the toughest conference in college BB was a big WOW.
I wasn’t. I was saying we could match their results for context. Don’t be dumb and go troll somewhere else. ISU won two games but the cupboard was hardly bare. Covid hit them a little different and harder than many others. No fans, lame duck coach. TJ did a fine job but it wasn’t as big a turn around as Lloyd at Zona and some others.
 

GopherWeatherGuy

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I wasn’t. I was saying we could match their results for context. Don’t be dumb and go troll somewhere else. ISU won two games but the cupboard was hardly bare. Covid hit them a little different and harder than many others. No fans, lame duck coach. TJ did a fine job but it wasn’t as big a turn around as Lloyd at Zona and some others.

ISU's cupboard wasn't bare? They returned 1 player from the previous season who averaged 2.4 ppg. TJ had an entirely new roster, just like Ben.
 



Gopherfan84

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ISU's cupboard wasn't bare? They returned 1 player from the previous season who averaged 2.4 ppg. TJ had an entirely new roster, just like Ben.
New roster that had a top 40 player in the country committed and didn’t ask for his release. That isn’t bare. The rest I don’t blame him for dumping for them leaving just like I didn’t here. TJ did a good job. They defended their tails off and he deserves credit. It also wasn’t as bare as it was here imo. Some of that can be on Ben and some wasn’t.
 

ethomasp31

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He missed a couple of games due to covid, Jan 2 and Jan 8th. He obviously had his big games against Georgetown and Stanford, pre covid. Not seeing any huge difference in the numbers.
He missed almost a month of the season from before Christmas until the middle of January. I saw the tweets too….they were from a prep sports reporter in San Diego who had 15000 followers. He followed him in high school and college and mentioned how his game changed from the Covid. He thinks he will be a very good very good back up for a P6 program. The point is it wasn’t just some fan looking at a stat sheet and making judgements.
 

RockChalk

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I wasn’t. I was saying we could match their results for context. Don’t be dumb and go troll somewhere else. ISU won two games but the cupboard was hardly bare. Covid hit them a little different and harder than many others. No fans, lame duck coach. TJ did a fine job but it wasn’t as big a turn around as Lloyd at Zona and some others.
As big or bigger, again considering the conference in which they play. He brought in 4 good size transfers plus Tyrese Hunter. His cupboard wasn't all that full
 




Gopherfan84

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As big or bigger, again considering the conference in which they play. He brought in 4 good size transfers plus Tyrese Hunter. His cupboard wasn't all that full
Again, TJ turned over the roster, but he was left a top 40 kid who was their best player and their only guy who could consistently score. Their defense was phenomenal, but their offense was awful and they barely made the tournament. Without that top 40 guy who could score, they have the same record as us. Now TJ hired a great staff and brought in some great role guys around Hunter and he deserves his credit, but it's not as cut and dry or far away as some are making it.

My original point about the the "turnaround" was the year before Otz. That group was the one that got hit differently. So many want to just point out that ISU won two games the year before, but that team had a ton of really good players. Cupboard wasn't full, but it wasn't empty either. When 20% of your scoring and your best player was given to you. I'm not going to do the Big 12 vs. the Big Ten argument with you here. Start another thread if you're interested in talking strengths of conferences.
 


leib0039

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We had no choice last year but to take less than mediocre players just to partially fill out a roster. Getting Willis, Battle, and Fox in the portal was a monumental achievement given the horrible condition of the program. Minnesota was not and still is not a desired destination for top portal players.

We now have one decent recruiting class and it makes no sense to bring in guys to play a year who are not clearly better than the freshmen.
That is not what you said or what I disagreed with. You made the assertion that Ben would not take mediocre players and play them over freshman. Which is what is exactly what he did last year, so I said you could not be 100% sure of that as last year that was not the case. If you want to say "You dont know Ben so you cant say what he was thinking about not going all in on Strong/Walton/Jones as he likes the freshman more" thats fine, but then you cant contradict yourself and say you then know exactly what he is thinking as you also dont know. I'll stop responding, just love when someone makes an observation/thought and you rip them, but then you make the same observation/thought on the other side and if someone disagrees you tell them nope you are wrong!
 

GopherWeatherGuy

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Again, TJ turned over the roster, but he was left a top 40 kid who was their best player and their only guy who could consistently score. Their defense was phenomenal, but their offense was awful and they barely made the tournament. Without that top 40 guy who could score, they have the same record as us. Now TJ hired a great staff and brought in some great role guys around Hunter and he deserves his credit, but it's not as cut and dry or far away as some are making it.

My original point about the the "turnaround" was the year before Otz. That group was the one that got hit differently. So many want to just point out that ISU won two games the year before, but that team had a ton of really good players. Cupboard wasn't full, but it wasn't empty either. When 20% of your scoring and your best player was given to you. I'm not going to do the Big 12 vs. the Big Ten argument with you here. Start another thread if you're interested in talking strengths of conferences.

TJ still had to convince that top 40 kid to stay. If he was 'given' Hunter, then Ben was given everyone from the previous roster not named Marcus Carr and Jamal Mashburn Jr.
 

cjbfbp

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I would love one more wing too, but not at the sacrifice of Carringtons development unless it’s a truly dynamic player. I don’t see that type coming here. Those guys are getting big time NIL dollars or seem to be choosing a Stanford grad degree.

I would say that getting another guard has more to do with protection against injury. Plus, even if Carrington ends up starting, he doesn't have to play over 30 minutes per game to get a good level of experience in his first year.
 

BarnBurner

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Again, TJ turned over the roster, but he was left a top 40 kid who was their best player and their only guy who could consistently score. Their defense was phenomenal, but their offense was awful and they barely made the tournament. Without that top 40 guy who could score, they have the same record as us. Now TJ hired a great staff and brought in some great role guys around Hunter and he deserves his credit, but it's not as cut and dry or far away as some are making it.

My original point about the the "turnaround" was the year before Otz. That group was the one that got hit differently. So many want to just point out that ISU won two games the year before, but that team had a ton of really good players. Cupboard wasn't full, but it wasn't empty either. When 20% of your scoring and your best player was given to you. I'm not going to do the Big 12 vs. the Big Ten argument with you here. Start another thread if you're interested in talking strengths of conferences.
By your logic, Ben was left with Carr, Robbins, etc etc.
 

BarnBurner

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That is not what you said or what I disagreed with. You made the assertion that Ben would not take mediocre players and play them over freshman. Which is what is exactly what he did last year, so I said you could not be 100% sure of that as last year that was not the case. If you want to say "You dont know Ben so you cant say what he was thinking about not going all in on Strong/Walton/Jones as he likes the freshman more" thats fine, but then you cant contradict yourself and say you then know exactly what he is thinking as you also dont know. I'll stop responding, just love when someone makes an observation/thought and you rip them, but then you make the same observation/thought on the other side and if someone disagrees you tell them nope you are wrong!
dak a$$
 

Holy Man

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Maybe they believe that shooter is already on the roster. That gets overlooked when people talk about adding another piece.
Perhaps true, but it is not obvious to the fan base. If so, it's either because a transfer has under performed previously and he expects to revert to the mean, or he is relying on freshmen, which I am hardwired to avoid. He may be seeing improvement in returning players that we aren't as well.
 

ecoperson

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TJ still had to convince that top 40 kid to stay. If he was 'given' Hunter, then Ben was given everyone from the previous roster not named Marcus Carr and Jamal Mashburn Jr.
You could add Robbins to the list but have to discount the fact that he came to play for his uncle, Ed Conroy.

Based on the comments on here, most posters would have been over the moon if we could have gotten rid of the rest of the roster and started. Kalscheur was the best of the lot and was getting reamed royally for his shooting woes. The rest were marginal players at best.

The fact of the matter is that Ben, as a first time head coach, either did us a service by not 'recruiting' most of the existing squard or could not convince any of them to stay. Either way, comparisons to Otzelberger are a stretch as TJ had a previous track record as a head coach previously for 5 years. Ben had nothing to show recruits.

The subject of Ben's first year has been hashed and rehashed so many times that it smells like a greasy diner in here. Let's move on and start looking forward.
 

Gopherfan84

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I would say that getting another guard has more to do with protection against injury. Plus, even if Carrington ends up starting, he doesn't have to play over 30 minutes per game to get a good level of experience in his first year.
Totally agree. I'm hoping Carrington gets 20-25 mins. The other 15 will need to be Cooper for some with Samuels, Henley if he's ready, or apparently Ihnen from what Ben says in interviews lol. In all seriousness though, I thought we would've added another guard as well, but reports say we aren't must be a good sign in the staffs belief in what they have here already at that spot.
 

Bob_Loblaw

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I would say that getting another guard has more to do with protection against injury. Plus, even if Carrington ends up starting, he doesn't have to play over 30 minutes per game to get a good level of experience in his first year.
For me, as someone who wants another experienced player who can play on the wings, I just don't think it makes sense to hand minutes to Carrington. If possible, I'd have been looking really hard for a Loewe or Stephens caliber wing to compete for PT.

Ben was smart in making Cooper a priority. It's much easier for a FR to come in and play on the wing when you have a PG like Cooper running the show. That was an absolute pivotal signing for our backcourt and even though it isn't my preference, allows Ben to more comfortably give a lot of minutes to inexperienced wings.

It'll be fun to watch Henley and Carrington on the wings next year.
 

Gopherfan84

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TJ still had to convince that top 40 kid to stay. If he was 'given' Hunter, then Ben was given everyone from the previous roster not named Marcus Carr and Jamal Mashburn Jr.
Didn't say he didn't. The fact that he had the opportunity to do so was huge and if he wasn't able to, their season is very very different. Hunter wanted to stay local/midwest that helped his case. I'm not comparing TJ to Ben on roster management. I'm saying their cupboards were different. The idea that TJ followed a 2 win team with nothing there isn't all fair in context. If you want to do the Ben was "given" the guys who left, then TJ lost a bunch of dudes too.
 

Gopherfan84

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Holy Man

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You could add Robbins to the list but have to discount the fact that he came to play for his uncle, Ed Conroy.

Based on the comments on here, most posters would have been over the moon if we could have gotten rid of the rest of the roster and started. Kalscheur was the best of the lot and was getting reamed royally for his shooting woes. The rest were marginal players at best.
The fact of the matter is that Ben, as a first time head coach, either did us a service by not 'recruiting' most of the existing squard or could not convince any of them to stay. Either way, comparisons to Otzelberger are a stretch as TJ had a previous track record as a head coach previously for 5 years. Ben had nothing to show recruits.

The subject of Ben's first year has been hashed and rehashed so many times that it smells like a greasy diner in here. Let's move on and start looking forward.
Bingo! Winner. TJ's track record was the most significant difference. What also gets set aside by the de facto one trick ponies is Ben's conscious decision to establish a culture. Agree with it or not, that was part of the strategy, and likely the primary reason for the exodus. Ben can be critiqued, but I think the construction of last year's roster is pretty weak sauce to keep bringing up.
 

BarnBurner

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alchemy2u

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It is, however the CBJ Protection Detail lives large......
You mistake support for blind protection. You are free to have your opinions, just as we are free to think that the Gopher coaching staff may be in a better position to judge players and the needs of the team.
 

alchemy2u

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No one thinks they are wrong when they are predicting things, it'd be pretty weird to make a prediction.

That said, I hope I'm wrong on a TON of things that I think. I think the housing market might crash a little, I hope i'm wrong. I don't think the Vikings will ever win a Super Bowl, I really hope I'm wrong. Whether you believe it or not, I want the Gophers to win. I want every Gopher player to be WAY better than I thought they were going to be. People can accuse me of a lot of things, but no offense, to accuse me of not wanting the Gophers to win is missing the point. I want Samuels to be fantastic and an absolute perfect fit.

I never questioned anyone's worthiness of being a gopher fan. I'm saying that it's unreasonable to think that someone who has dumped thousands of hours and dollars into the Gophers doesn't want them to excel. It's a completely unreasonable take.

You don't think adding players who are a good fit leads to wins? Are you really pretending that was a bridge too far? I know you're pretending now, but here ya go. The better Samuels is, the better the team will be. I guess that concept is tangential for you, but it seems pretty direct to me.

You are accusing me of wanting to be right about my opinion of what the team needs. For me to be right, the team would have to be worse. It's really not complicated. For me to be wrong, the team would have to better.

I want them to be better. I want to be wrong.
Exactly. I can see your points and this post makes more sense.
 




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