Talent level

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Mikie S

Mikie S

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The level of talent in the final four hit me in the face. Would even one Gopher crack North Carolina's rotation? Maybe DJ as a defensive sub.

I was thinking back to the Gopher's '97 team and came to pretty much the same conclusion.

c John Thomas , Trevor Winter or Sampson or Iverson?
pf Courtney James, Miles Tarver
sf Sam Jacobson, Quincy Lewis, Damian Johnson
sg Bobby Jackson, Charles Thomas, Lawrence Westbrook
pg Eric Harris, Al Nolen

The Gophers still have a ways to go.
 

Mikie S said:
The level of talent in the final four hit me in the face. Would even one Gopher crack North Carolina's rotation? Maybe DJ as a defensive sub.

I was thinking back to the Gopher's '97 team and came to pretty much the same conclusion.

c John Thomas , Trevor Winter or Sampson or Iverson?
pf Courtney James, Miles Tarver
sf Sam Jacobson, Quincy Lewis, Damian Johnson
sg Bobby Jackson, Charles Thomas, Lawrence Westbrook
pg Eric Harris, Al Nolen

The Gophers still have a ways to go.
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Blake would have fit nicely as a spot-up shooter on that '97 team. Joseph is still too young, otherwise I'd expect him to be ~ Charles Thomas next year or the year after. Sampson and Iverson are both as good or better than Winter. Miles Tarver should never make a list of quality players.
 

Mikie S said:
Would even one Gopher crack North Carolina's rotation?
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Would nearly anyone in America?

Come on, they're loaded with 5* recruits, McD's AAs, and the best money can buy. The talent level on UNC is heads and shoulders above anyone else.

That said, MSU beat a more "talented" UConn team, and we are just a player + maturity away from really competing or beating MSU.

It's not always about the top recruits in the country, and frankly, I don't think Tubby is going after those guys.

I mean the guys you mentioned like John Thomas, Trevor Winter, Miles Tarver, Charles Thomas...there's no way they would crack UNC's roster this year either. I mean, I don't know if you remember Winter, Tarver, etc., but they weren't anything to write home about, I hate to tell you, compared to the talent we're seeing at the high D1 level nowadays. They weren't highly-rated recruits at all. However, they were solid basketball players that all contributed to a great "team."
 

It is not just about the level of talent. The team composition of the 97 team was excellent. No pertinent weakness in any position in that squad, let alone their complementing each other well. It takes time to put together a well balanced team. I agree with Mikie that we still have a long way to go. However, I think we will have a legit shot at the BT title in three years although it is hard to talk about the possibility of a true final four caliber team within the time frame.
 

DOn't forget that the 97 team had 4 NBA first round draft picks. Jackson, Jacobson, Thomas and Lewis were all #1 picks. That team has as much talent as almost anyone in the country.
 


cncmin said:
Miles Tarver should never make a list of quality players.
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Wrong. Tarver was far from being great, but he was a tough defender and a good rebounder. Tarver would have started on this years team. Tubby would have loved him.
 

I loved Charles Thomas from the 97 team. Whenever Clem sent him in the game the scorekeepers hand would reach for the button to add three points to the Gophers score. This years team could have used a player who was an automatic three like Thomas. Too bad he left the Gophers after that season. I don't think he ever played after that due to injury.
 

The major difference is consistency, yes Westbrook had some great games, but he also had some horrendous performances. Bobby Jackson was an elite performer night in and night out, the same goes for the rest, Sam Jacobsen, John Thomas, Courtney James and Eric Harris were very steady consistent players. Nolen, Westbrook, Damian, Ralph, Iverson, Blake, etc have had some good games under their belt, but they havent done it consistently enough yet to really build and excel as a team. I am hoping that we will see that a little more next year.
 

Mikie S said:
The level of talent in the final four hit me in the face. Would even one Gopher crack North Carolina's rotation? Maybe DJ as a defensive sub.

I was thinking back to the Gopher's '97 team and came to pretty much the same conclusion.

c John Thomas , Trevor Winter or Sampson or Iverson?
pf Courtney James, Miles Tarver
sf Sam Jacobson, Quincy Lewis, Damian Johnson
sg Bobby Jackson, Charles Thomas, Lawrence Westbrook
pg Eric Harris, Al Nolen

The Gophers still have a ways to go.
Click to expand...

I'd certainly switch Tarver with Paul Carter.
 



97 team

The strange thing about that team is that none of the big guys could have hit a jump shot to save their lives. Nowadays it seems like a big guy has to be able to pull the trigger from at least 10' in order to excel and keep the defense honest. I think the success of that team was largely due to the dynamic guards who could score in the open court or in the half-court.

Roy Christensen said:
I loved Charles Thomas from the 97 team. Whenever Clem sent him in the game the scorekeepers hand would reach for the button to add three points to the Gophers score. This years team could have used a player who was an automatic three like Thomas. Too bad he left the Gophers after that season. I don't think he ever played after that due to injury.
Today 08:31 AM
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I remember that Charles Thomas did have a bad back and his playing time was limited in his second year. But I also remember hearing that he was run out of town in what could have been another ugly splotch on the face of the Gopher program. Well, actually, it was ugly. His situation never made it to court and I don't think it ever made the national papers.
 

Plinnius said:
I'd certainly switch Tarver with Paul Carter.
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Does that mean you'd rather have Tarver or Carter? Because I think having Tarver would have been great for this year's gophers. Carter had a lot of energy and enthusiasm, but I would say that he made more bad things happen than good.
 

jmag21 said:
Does that mean you'd rather have Tarver or Carter? Because I think having Tarver would have been great for this year's gophers. Carter had a lot of energy and enthusiasm, but I would say that he made more bad things happen than good.
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I'd rather have Carter. Tarver's best asset was his rebounding, and Carter was the better rebounder.
 

Plinnius said:
I'd rather have Carter. Tarver's best asset was his rebounding, and Carter was the better rebounder.
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Traver's assets included not only rebounding, but playing defense, blocking out and setting picks and maybe taking the occasional cheap-shot,which Carter definitely didn't do much of. Opponents always had their heads on a swivel with Miles in the area.
 



Remember that the 97 team had senior and junior leadership with Winter, Thomas, Jackson, Harris and Tarver all in there senior years (did I get that right?).

We don't know what Sampson, Iverson, Nolan, Westbrook, Carter, or Joseph will look like next year or the year after? My guess is that with some talented underclassman like White, Cobbs, Williams, Mbakwe and possibly Allen along with the 2010 class they could definitely compete with the 97 team. They may not reach the same level of success as in 97 but they would challenge them and compete hard and they'll likely have some future NBA players as well.
 

Mr. Tarver was in his junior year. In the very next season, Clem was infuriated by Tarver's comment on the team sinking faster than the Titanic, which led to the banning of Miles talking to the media. Tarver also got tricked in the 98-99 season by the Michigan State fans with a false shot clock counting and launched an absurd jumper with about 10 seconds still left on the shot clock. They obviously knew Miles couldn't hit a jumper to save his life. :) Interesting guy. As far as the 96-97 season is concerned, Miles was not relied upon for his offensive prowess with many scoring options in the team and, as I remember, was a great contributor in the squad. For the 96-97 team, I would think Tarver was better a fit than Carter.
 

Tarver was soph in the 96-97 season, then. Anybody? I guess my memory is fading.
 

Wow. . .I can't believe how people talk of Tarver now. I can remember Tarver getting absolutely shredded because the guy blew more open lay ups than anyone I had ever seen, and barely anyone talked about his rebounding and defense. Now people talk about him like he walked on water, and no mention of the 30 missed layups per game.
 

Miles Tarver Stat Summary:

Season GP MPG PPG FG% 3FG% FT% APG RPG BPG SPG
1998-1999 26 26.6 5.0 43.0 0.0 69.2 1.8 7.1 0.2 0.8
1997-1998 35 26.8 4.4 40.2 0.0 67.9 1.5 6.3 0.4 0.6
1996-1997 35 12.8 1.7 41.0 0.0 47.6 0.6 2.9 0.2 0.3

Miles Tarver was in his sophomore year in 1996-1997. Perhaps, I was a little too generous on Mr. Tarver's performance that season although I thought he was more valuable a contributor than the stat sheet makes him out to be. Odd...

Somehow, I cannot format the stat sheet correctly. For better viewing,
http://statsheet.com/mcb/players/player/minnesota/miles-tarver
 

Gopher Teeth said:
Wow. . .I can't believe how people talk of Tarver now. I can remember Tarver getting absolutely shredded because the guy blew more open lay ups than anyone I had ever seen, and barely anyone talked about his rebounding and defense. Now people talk about him like he walked on water, and no mention of the 30 missed layups per game.
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Really? I don't remember if I was after Tarver so harshly in that final four season. I think there were many like me back then. Yea, he got absolutely shredded once he started playing major minutes after Courtney got prematurely sent off.

I always liked him as a conversation piece or sort if not as a player and starter. Maybe, that fondness has distorted my perception over the time. Still, with the scoring options we had, Tarver did contribute in his role in the final four season.
 

I was struck completely opposite of this sentiment. NC is in another stratosphere but i wasn't terribly impresses by any other team. Some individuals sure.
 

Schnoodler said:
I was struck completely opposite of this sentiment. NC is in another stratosphere but i wasn't terribly impresses by any other team. Some individuals sure.
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That's how it has always been. UNC has always had a team full of top tier talent. Now they seem to have a coach more willing to not piss it all away and rely on other teams miscues to win him a title/s.

If Dean let his players play like Roy does he would have challenged Wooden in terms of titles. Remember there was only 1 man who could hold Jordan under 20.
 

cncmin said:
Blake would have fit nicely as a spot-up shooter on that '97 team. Joseph is still too young, otherwise I'd expect him to be ~ Charles Thomas next year or the year after. Sampson and Iverson are both as good or better than Winter. Miles Tarver should never make a list of quality players.
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ha ha ha haha, that is hilarious.

All that team needed was someone to replace Eric Harris. If he never got hurt, we might have had a National Championship taken away instead.
 

lets see..Tubby has one year under his belt with "his guys". Most were freshman and all new to D1 hoops. Perhaps we should give Tubby a few years of adding his own players before we squawk like this.. Tubby is a great coach..but he is not Jesus..not turning water into wine.
 

The Truth said:
That's how it has always been. UNC has always had a team full of top tier talent. Now they seem to have a coach more willing to not piss it all away and rely on other teams miscues to win him a title/s.

If Dean let his players play like Roy does he would have challenged Wooden in terms of titles. Remember there was only 1 man who could hold Jordan under 20.
Click to expand...

Despite and ENORMOUS difference in talent level, UK had > record than UNC from 2000 thru 2007. But UNC >>> UK in 2008 and 09 because Cats hired a Doherty Clone as coach.
 

Rouser said:
lets see..Tubby has one year under his belt with "his guys". Most were freshman and all new to D1 hoops. Perhaps we should give Tubby a few years of adding his own players before we squawk like this.. Tubby is a great coach..but he is not Jesus..not turning water into wine.
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Tubby had his own players at Tulsa in 1993 and 94. Also at Georgia in 1997. And UK from 2001 thru 2007. The 2010 Gophers will be mostly his recruits, not all.

The prior 10 seasons of "his own" recruits yielded almost 25 W per season.
 

Here is what I remember from Tarver:

Great hustle
Decent rebounding
Had some decent spark/attitude
Bricked shots
Couldn't hit free throws
His goofy dance at the end of the elite eight game against UCLA
Finally (and unfortunately) his having a handicapped parking pass in his car to get better parking spots

He frustrated me a lot, but he had his place.
 

XMan said:
Here is what I remember from Tarver:

Great hustle
Decent rebounding
Had some decent spark/attitude
Bricked shots
Couldn't hit free throws
His goofy dance at the end of the elite eight game against UCLA
Finally (and unfortunately) his having a handicapped parking pass in his car to get better parking spots

He frustrated me a lot, but he had his place.
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"The Titanic!" Miles was a good interview.
 

Friend Of Tubby said:
Tubby had his own players at Tulsa in 1993 and 94. Also at Georgia in 1997. And UK from 2001 thru 2007. The 2010 Gophers will be mostly his recruits, not all.

The prior 10 seasons of "his own" recruits yielded almost 25 W per season.
Click to expand...

Stop talking about UK, no one cares.
 


HAH !!!

Friend Of Tubby said:
Try reading and comprehending. He also coached teams at Tulsa and Georgia with "his own" recruits.
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Now that is a good one ! Read and comprehend? You mean at the same time ?

If that is suddenly a requirement to post here the "members" are going to be thinned out pretty fast, including me!
 

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