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GopherWeatherGuy said:
And yet those additions only got us to a point where we made the NIT because so many other teams backed out.

And then we were still worked by an Indiana St team who has a coach that has been there the same amount of time as Ben has been here, at a level that has significantly more issues with transfers than P6 teams.

So yeah, most of us don't have any confidence Ben will bring in players that will raise the level of play to a NCAA tournament level, which they were still a long ways away from being this season.
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Okay, so we didn't have enough guys, so that meant all the guys sucked. Got it. So you think Ben is selling the same thing to transfers coming off a 9-win Big Ten season as he was after a 2-win season? There was no change or progress in the program this season.
 

WriterGoph said:
Okay, so we didn't have enough guys, so that meant all the guys sucked. Got it. So you think Ben is selling the same thing to transfers coming off a 9-win Big Ten season as he was after a 2-win season? There was no change or progress in the program this season.
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Maybe he can poach the Willingham brothers after they win a D2 title
 

WriterGoph said:
Okay, so we didn't have enough guys, so that meant all the guys sucked. Got it. So you think Ben is selling the same thing to transfers coming off a 9-win Big Ten season as he was after a 2-win season? There was no change or progress in the program this season.
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I didn't say they all sucked. 9 wins was still tied for the last weakling Wednesday spot. Thankfully they came from being down double digits twice to beat a Penn St team who also won 9 games in their first season with a new head coach and a brand new roster to win the tiebreaker.

This team was better for 1/3 of this season. The other 2/3 of this season it looked a lot like the previous two seasons.
 

Just a couple points from a CBJ supporter. I like him. I like the brand he coaches, and the in-game X's and O's are good. He has done a good job. The Univ. of Minnesota was VERY slow to acknowledge NIL as a legitimate process/policy that had to be embraced. Things were said, and I paraphrase multiple quotes, "...this is not what college athletics should look like". "...we don't believe that paying athletes is in the best interest of college sports". "...we don't like it but I guess we are going to have to figure NIL out moving forward"...Minnesotans are too pure, nice, stubborn, and have a high moral stance. We do not have a captive audience like some schools. Its not the worst thing to stand on principal, but it is if you want great teams.

Also, MN has 6 major professional sports franchises in the Twin Cities. We're not in Kansas or Iowa St. The Twin Cities Fortune 500 companies aren't owned and run by Minnesotans who care about college sports. There are a lot of competing pro and college venues, and MN sports fans cannot monetarily support every team with a MN jersey on. Equally, teams that win do somehow fill the seats better (except maybe the Lynx:).

The portal has claimed 4 guys from a middling Big Ten team thus far: A defensive role player who hasn't found his scoring touch, an athletic highlight film guy that doesn't defend, a very physical post player with a 4-foot shooting range, and a potential stretch player with a streaky shot and no defense. I liked all those guys, and maybe they will bring their fishing poles back to MN when they realize that they are the same player wherever they play. Every player has warts in their game that become exposed with playing time.

Minnesota could likely come out of this round of Wheel of Fortune with a better team, so we can all cheer for the jerseys w/"Minnesota" on them next year. We are at a disadvantage, so I wouldn't count on a better team if more of our core players bolt vs the team they could have developed into.

As posted earlier, everyone is in the same situation with players exiting via portal. South Carolina, Virginia Tech, Kentucky, Wake Forest, Wisconsin, Rutgers, Penn St. and MANY others have lost multiple pieces from the 2023-24 teams. Call it fool's gold, looking for greener grass, but whatever you call it, it is the new reality of college sports, starting w/O'Bannon's at UCLA. I HATE IT!
How are coaches supposed to build rosters knowing full well that the pieces assembled will be scrambled after one year?! Clearly, a LOT of div.1 players are NOT going to selected universities to go to class.
 

Dakota2 said:
You're quite the fan to think we lost in the first round of the NIT. Thanks for following so closely and imparting all your knowledge.
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Yes I forgot...only true fans like you never make a mistake. Tell me, is the air so sweet up on your high horse there Dakota?!

So change the round...my point still stands. It isn't like we were an NCAA team or even a bubble team...we are starting with a team that had holes, now we have more holes. You have faith Ben can fill them, I do not. That doesn't make me a worse fan than you no matter how you slice it.

I was fine with them bringing Ben back because I was fine with the progress and the idea he was building something with his "first class". I wasn't posting in the "Disaster" thread. I gave him credit for the improvement just like I ripped him for the ad performances. I thought the future looked bright. New evidence has lead my opinion to change. Don't like it? Oh darn.
 



Dakota2 said:
I don't know if Johnson can do any or all of that. But, it is the biggest opportunity he has ever had as a head coach.
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True, and for the sake of the team we care about I hope you are right and I am wrong. I just dont have that kind of faith.
 

bga1 said:
Do you think that Payne designed the hard hedge? That one is on Ben. I hate that defensive scheme.
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He might have designed it. He's making $1.1 million now. That's getting into coach territory.
 





WriterGoph said:
I'm just saying, let's not act like he is the 2nd coming of Wilt Chamberlain. Last year, we had no guards and the sky was falling at this time. Then we ended up with an All-Big Ten guard, a guy who shot 40% from 3 and a potential 1-and-done NBA kid. Did you predict all that after Cooper left last year?
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And I am just saying all of that got us an NIT berth. The way you make it sound we were something special. We were a middle of the road Big Ten team in a pretty weak Big Ten.
 

CentralGopher said:
So is Ben bad at evaluating talent or bad at developing players? If he has that many players that couldn’t contribute at a high level it has to be one or the other or both.
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Same as every coach in the country. Every team has a few guys they will happily get rid of at the end of the year in order to get a crack at portal players.

There is one certain fireable offense Johnson could have committed and that would have been to go into next year with Ihnen, Carrington, and JOJ on the roster.
 

SplitDecision said:
Just a couple points from a CBJ supporter. I like him. I like the brand he coaches, and the in-game X's and O's are good. He has done a good job. The Univ. of Minnesota was VERY slow to acknowledge NIL as a legitimate process/policy that had to be embraced. Things were said, and I paraphrase multiple quotes, "...this is not what college athletics should look like". "...we don't believe that paying athletes is in the best interest of college sports". "...we don't like it but I guess we are going to have to figure NIL out moving forward"...Minnesotans are too pure, nice, stubborn, and have a high moral stance. We do not have a captive audience like some schools. Its not the worst thing to stand on principal, but it is if you want great teams.
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Good post. I can verify those words having heard them myself. I also had a sense they were going to try to spread the money around pretty equally to maintain roster unity. I felt when I heard it that it was never going to work and you couldn't keep the better players that way in this kind of market. I hope they are adjusting mentally to reality.
 



UST is coming for us and will likely surpass in the next 10 years, what a complete joke.
 


Dakota2 said:
Same as every coach in the country. Every team has a few guys they will happily get rid of at the end of the year in order to get a crack at portal players.

There is one certain fireable offense Johnson could have committed and that would have been to go into next year with Ihnen, Carrington, and JOJ on the roster.
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Those guys don't move the needle for me. Payne does. Huge loss.
 

Dave H said:
What evidence do you have of that? You are putting a lot of stock in a coach putting a roster together who has had issues putting a roster together. And it isn't like the realistic options scream improvement...they scream "NIT Final Four If Lucky" which I guess is an improvement but still gets Ben canned.

Ben needs some good news...and not "Rando Guy From D2 School Is a Gopher" he needs something to turn the tide or this tanker is going right into the bridge.
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You mean he won’t find our Gohlke (oakland gunner)?
 

Gophers7633 said:
Hey, maybe by 2030 he'll figure out. Who cares if we're stink every season.
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There is nothing to figure out, clown. He and the University of Minnesota can either attract better players or they can't.
 

CentralGopher said:
So is Ben bad at evaluating talent or bad at developing players? If he has that many players that couldn’t contribute at a high level it has to be one or the other or both.
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Carrington was the 3rd best player on his high school team if you watched the games. Couldn’t do anything against a garbage Edina team…this has proved to carry over to doing nothing at high level college basketball
 

For the last freaking time...Payne, Carrington and JOJ all got NIL offers from the U. They felt they should be making more money and have larger roles on the team. Ben let them know where they stand and they want to look for greener pastures.

THERE IS NIL MONEY to keep guys. It's just not these specific guys. If there was zero NIL, don't you think Hawkins, Christie, Mitchell, Garcia and Fox would have announced their decisions?
 



Dakota2 said:
Same as every coach in the country. Every team has a few guys they will happily get rid of at the end of the year in order to get a crack at portal players.

There is one certain fireable offense Johnson could have committed and that would have been to go into next year with Ihnen, Carrington, and JOJ on the roster.
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Huh, you never mentioned any concerns about those players before today.
 

Dave H said:
True, and for the sake of the team we care about I hope you are right and I am wrong. I just dont have that kind of faith.
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I have no faith he can nor fear he can't. Not in my hands. It's up to him. I do know that it should not be too difficult to improve upon Ihnen, Carrington, and JOJ. By bringing in two big men we could replicate Payne's production.

There will be a lot of guys out there but also a lot of choices for the better ones. With the reputation of Minnesota basketball and his own career credentials it's going to be an uphill slog for Ben. If he can pull it off we will know the program is in good hands.
 

Gophers7633 said:
Newsflash. If it hasn't happened already it ain't gonna happen, apologist.
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Double newsflash: Forget about selling investment advise cause, if something hasn't happened, it can't happen.
 

bga1 said:
Those guys don't move the needle for me. Payne does. Huge loss.
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Payne is a big loss, until he is replaced by two new bigs. Then we will be able to speculate on whether Payne was a big loss, small loss, or no loss.
 

Dakota2 said:
Double newsflash: Forget about selling investment advise cause, if something hasn't happened, it can't happen.
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So Ben hasn't already coached 3 seasons? Good to know. Your defense of him is truly laughable. Not surprised, you're the same person that said losing to Missouri was a good loss. Also, if you want to sound smart, maybe learn basic vocabulary.
 

mplarson7 said:
Well, people wanted a "Minnesota guy" who would keep the "Minnesota players home."

And then the Minnesota guys jump ship as soon as possible.
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Two of them were pushed out to open up spots. As was non-Minnesota guy Ihnen.

It's tough to see Payne jump but if someone has convinced him he's going to get $1.1 million next year somewhere else I feel bad for him.
 

Dakota2 said:
Same as every coach in the country. Every team has a few guys they will happily get rid of at the end of the year in order to get a crack at portal players.

There is one certain fireable offense Johnson could have committed and that would have been to go into next year with Ihnen, Carrington, and JOJ on the roster.
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Not even close. JOJ and Carrington were exactly the guys Ben was hired to recruit and develop. That’s a fail.
 

Dakota2 said:
Two of them were pushed out to open up spots. As was non-Minnesota guy Ihnen.

It's tough to see Payne jump but if someone has convinced him he's going to get $1.1 million next year somewhere else I feel bad for him.
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I agree that it's not too bad to see these guys leave, but it also points to the problem with Ben.

Ben came in to recruit MN guys and build the program, then 2 years in to these guys that he recruited being on the roster, we're OK with them moving on. He also couldn't keep Gabe when he first got the job, couldn't keep Battle after recruiting him back home, and now can't keep the most important piece Payne. What's the plan here? Does Ben know?

It's tough because Ben was put in a tough spot to fill the roster when he got the job, but it's really just been a toss up about who lands on the roster year-to-year.

Even Ben's main recruit last year was Mitchell. Hawkins was a last resort that landed with us once we missed on Brown from Montana State. I don't know if Hawkins really even had any other offers at the Big 10 level or similar. We got lucky.

Thankfully I think there's probably a little hope that maybe we just land some guys that seem to come together, similar to how Hawkins fit, but it's all just a wing and a prayer.

That's a problem. There's no culture. There's no plan. It's hard to just bank on getting lucky.
 

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