Structural Problem with the U of MN athletics?

[UpnorthGo4]

Can we drop the idiotic notion that Joel Maturi doesn't deserve credit for hiring Tubby Smith? The following article goes into some detail about how it really happend:


Feeling Minnesota
(excerpted)

By Jason King, Yahoo! Sports
Jan 29, 7:25 am EST

Something embarrassing nearly happened to the most popular man in Minnesota on Wednesday. As Tubby Smith walked toward Williams Arena, he slipped on a patch of ice and nearly fell.

“Happened twice, actually,” Smith chuckles. “I was a little surprised. It’s warm out there today.”

Smith was joking, of course. Temperatures here dipped below zero, but even Minneapolis’ rugged, icy winters don’t seem to bother Smith, who goes on and on about how much he enjoys his new home.

With previous stops at Tulsa, Georgia and Kentucky, Smith had grown accustomed to living in mid-sized college towns, so he’d forgotten about all the perks that come along with residing in a big city.

Some nights Smith and his wife, Donna, head downtown for a meal at one of the many restaurants that line First Avenue. Last summer they saw Prince and John Legend perform at the Target Center, which is where Smith planned to head after Wednesday’s workout to watch Tayshaun Prince, the former Kentucky player who’s now an NBA standout.

“Elton John, Springsteen, Patti LaBelle … you name the singer or the show, and chances are good they’ve been through here,” Smith says. “We live right by downtown, right off the river. There’s so much history in this area. I’m at the stage now where I can get out and appreciate it.”

It’s certainly a nice change from how things were during Smith’s last few years at Kentucky, when he often chose to eat dinner at home to “avoid the negativity” that, on occasion, seemed to engulf the Wildcats’ fan base.

Smith reached the Elite Eight three times and the Sweet 16 twice after winning the national title in 1998. But his failure to advance to the Final Four remains a sore spot in Lexington.

“We were really struggling those last couple of years,” Smith says with a smirk. “We only won 22 games and went to the NCAA tournament. It was bad.”

Asked if the scrutiny wore on him, Smith drops the sarcasm.

“I don’t think it wore on me,” he says. “Whenever you see successful coaches moving to other jobs, there’s usually something going on in the hierarchy (of the athletic department). That’s all I’ve got to say about that.”

Minnesota athletic director Joel Maturi began hearing rumors of Smith’s discontent at Kentucky shortly after firing Dan Monson seven games into the 2006-07 season.

“I called about 10 people to get advice on whom to hire,” Maturi said. “Three of them said, ‘I think Tubby Smith is ready to leave Kentucky.’ It caught me off guard.”

In January of 2007, Maturi asked members of the search firm he’d hired to gauge Smith’s interest in the Gophers job. Maturi said the firm contacted Smith’s agent, Ricky Lefft, who indicated that Smith would be willing to listen to Minnesota’s pitch at the end of Kentucky’s season.

“Looking at it from a distance, my belief was that Tubby was always going to be in the shadow of Rick Pitino and Adolph Rupp,” Maturi said. “I thought very strongly that he was at a point in his career where he needed to start having some fun again.”

Apparently, Smith agreed. Four days after Kentucky lost to Kansas in the NCAA second round, Smith was hired at Minnesota.

Frustrated as he was with how things ended in Lexington, Smith stops himself each time he begins to say something that could be construed as negative about Kentucky’s program or its fans.

“The people there are wonderful people,” he says. “Hopefully we left the program in pretty good shape. We recruited some good kids that are performing pretty well for them right now.”

Smith returned to Lexington in November and raised $200,000 for charity. Even now, during his weekly radio show, about 80 percent of the call-ins are from Kentucky fans wishing him well at his new job.

“One of the very first times we huddled last year, he accidentally said ‘Blue and White’ instead of ‘Maroon and Gold,’” Minnesota leading scorer Lawrence Westbrook said. “We all laughed about it. He’s our coach now.”

 

[atsgopher]

I'd focus on the cities of Minneapolis and St. Paul to try to right the ship. For their size, we get very few football players. We need more help from the big boys.

This will take some time to fix, wonder if people have some ideas what we could do to build the big city talent base, especially in football?

I grew up in Minneapolis and lived here most of my life. I find basketball is thriving at the city schools, while football is sub par. St Paul seems to be better off than Minneapolis.

I would say to right the ship we need to establish better youth programs. Kids need to start learning the game from a young age. There is a serious lack of football knowledge in the Minneapolis park board system. There are some good people out there that care; they are few and far between. A lot of Minneapolis kids don't go out for football, especially some of the best athletes and I'm not going to pretend to know why. I can attest that the best football players I knew growing up never played high school.

I do remember growing up in Northeast and watching Edison go far in the state playoffs with a team that was all made up of all neighborhood talent (1989-1990). Soon after that I think there was a paradigm shift in the city that focused on diversifying the schools. This could have something to do with less committed players. The high schools are no longer neighborhood based and a sense of community is lost. Kids no longer grow up knowing that they are going to compete for Edison, Washburn, etc. They no longer dream about the representing the neighborhood.

An anecdotal example:
I remember reading an article in the Star tribune in 2008 where Wayzata played North and something like (estimate from memory) 11 players actually were eligible to play in the Minneapolis North district. This could be part of the problem and if it is I’m unsure how to fix it while providing opportunities for kids to succeed.

 

[Missed-layup]

I grew up in Minneapolis and lived here most of my life. I find basketball is thriving at the city schools, while football is sub par. St Paul seems to be better off than Minneapolis.

I would say to right the ship we need to establish better youth programs. Kids need to start learning the game from a young age. There is a serious lack of football knowledge in the Minneapolis park board system. There are some good people out there that care; they are few and far between. A lot of Minneapolis kids don't go out for football, especially some of the best athletes and I'm not going to pretend to know why. I can attest that the best football players I knew growing up never played high school.

I do remember growing up in Northeast and watching Edison go far in the state playoffs with a team that was all made up of all neighborhood talent (1989-1990). Soon after that I think there was a paradigm shift in the city that focused on diversifying the schools. This could have something to do with less committed players. The high schools are no longer neighborhood based and a sense of community is lost. Kids no longer grow up knowing that they are going to compete for Edison, Washburn, etc. They no longer dream about the representing the neighborhood.

An anecdotal example:
I remember reading an article in the Star tribune in 2008 where Wayzata played North and something like (estimate from memory) 11 players actually were eligible to play in the Minneapolis North district. This could be part of the problem and if it is I’m unsure how to fix it while providing opportunities for kids to succeed.

Good points on the declining stature of the "community" and its effects on basketball, especially in the inner city. It seems the good schools just get better and everyone else loses out as the good players transfer to the good programs, even in high school.

Do you think our poorly performing pro & college teams have a larger impact on youth interest in state athletics? Ep: Gopher footballs mediocre to poor performance leads the good teen athletes to focus on other sports like Hockey, Baseball, Etc?

 

[GoldInDirt]

That is incorrect. First of all, Tubby is not the best coach of the University--at least he hasn't proven it yet. In fact, he still has not had a winning season in the Big Ten yet. Dutcher was better and Clem got us to a final four. While Monson didn't fare well here in part due to the penalty crippled program, he was quite successful at Gonzaga helping put that program on the map and even beating the Gophers in the NCAAs.

Second, Tubby initiated the contact and many feel Tubby hired himself here. The one major program coach that Maturi definitely hired was Brewster and that has not gone very well.

I'm not old enough to have watched Dutch and can't compare him to Tubby. Tubby is better then Clem in my opinion. Clem's offense was just as slow or slower then Tubby's, but Tubby seems to have a better defense. Tubby is infinitely better then Monson. I can't believe the difference between Monson's last squad and Tubby's first squad. Monson had what - 7 or 10 years and didn't do anything. Tubby has produced consistently.

 

[row19gopher]

Amen to GopherJake. 3 scholarships on the bench is too much to overcome.

 

[gopherbadgerman]

How about 3 of the most talented players being in suits?

Please don't blame this on Tubby or Maturi.

Although I hate talking about ifs and buts, I think this is true. I voted for "other". If RW, TM, and AN were all in uniform, I doubt people would be talking about a lack of talent, all of the talk would be about how we are building talent. As they are not, I think the talent level on the floor is not very good. But, you can put some blame on the coach for getting players with issues.

 

[Gopher4Life]

>>One more time. His name is Monson, not Munson.<<

A turd, spelled correctly or not, smells just as bad.

 

[Reserve]

But, you can put some blame on the coach for getting players with issues.

You can I guess. In Trevor's case, his charges developed 7 months after he signed. Royce, well that's a bit more complicated, Tubby more than likely would have been ripped had Royce signed somewhere else and done well or praised if Royce had issues somewhere else. Al? Who knows. Al seemed to do fine his first two years and his academics crapped out. Reading Tubby's comments on it they seemed to be doing everything they could for Al. If the player won't respond what is the coach supposed to do?

I think these situations get really, really, complicated.

 

[atsgopher]

Do you think our poorly performing pro & college teams have a larger impact on youth interest in state athletics? Ep: Gopher footballs mediocre to poor performance leads the good teen athletes to focus on other sports like Hockey, Baseball, Etc?

This very possibly could be true, but I don’t believe so in Minnesota; I think there is a unique situation in this state where the Major College program and Professional teams share the Twin cities market. If both teams in football or baseball were unsuccessful then I believe this would be true. Basketball is a different animal; because the NBA chooses to market its stars and individual accomplishments are highlighted to the nth degree. Football and baseball are more provincial in that it is less socially acceptable to cheer for individual players in rival markets. In basketball, a kid can declare there favorite players to be Lebron, Kobe, and Howard while their favorite team is the Wolves.

I feel that the lack of success of Gopher programs simply makes them less visible, and may affect the emotional loyalty that kids devote to the program. However, the same child will whole heartedly enjoy the success of the Vikings and Twins and still pursue those sports as a result.

In a market like Kansas, a kid may see the basketball team’s accomplishments and focus on that sport because there are less football archetypes to emulate. Hockey is a different because it requires skills that can only be gained through practice. One cannot be just a good athlete and pick the game up quickly; it takes years of practice to learn to skate, which weeds out those who do not participate at a younger age. On the other hand, one routinely hears a story of the great athlete who started football or basketball in high school and achieves major success. This takes some choice away from the kid as to whether they will choose to dedicate time to hockey. Thus, the focus on hockey is a cultural phenomenon where a kid is either exposed/encouraged at an early age by family or not.

 

[maxwellsmart]

Not to minimize the effect of good practice time, but a good athlete (read as naturally gifted skater) can "pick up" the sport of hockey very quickly. Skating is difficult for some, remarkably simple for others. Those who skate naturally have a tremendous advantage and can come into the game at a later time in their lives than most people think possible. I have seen youngsters (pre-5 years old) lace up skates, take a few minutes to get their bearings and jump into rink-rat games. These kids could easily play one or two age levels above their normal category. Unfortunately, we don't move them up very often here in The State of Hockey because it's more acceptable to stall their development a few years while their contemporaries catch up. If it truly required years of practice to skate well, all mites and most squirts would be immobile and they're far from it. I've seen a high school athlete drop basketball after his sophomore year in favor of hockey (having never participated in an organized practice or game) and go on to lead his team in scoring in the Lake Conference, being named all-conference in his junior and senior seasons. I've seen a young man from Kentucky move to Minnesota, get a taste of the ice playing on-skates phy. ed. broom ball, decide to go out for the hockey team and crack the varsity lineup his first season out. Now, teaching read and react at a highly competitive level gets a bit more complicated for players who do not possess an instinctive flair or years of repetition. At any rate, all things hockey become much easier for the naturally gifted skater than for the athlete who must struggle through wobbly ankles and rubbery knees. For those skaters, hockey is indeed a game that requires a lot of time and repetition and even then may not fit their abilities. But there is no reason for an athletically gifted person newly exposed to the sport to back away because most of the others started at a young age.

 

[Mikie S]

Why is it that whenever a team isn't shooting well, is slow to the ball, or just isn't reacting to play in general ... that we see fans come out of the woodwork bemoaning "a lack of effort", "lack of hustling", or the popular "they didn't come ready to play"?

I don't believe that is the case!

We see it time-after-time, by team-after-team, in different sports, that when an important (critical, pressure filled) game comes up that the players can get wound up tighter than a drum.
As an example: try throwing a baseball with a "death-grip" on it. The ball will not go as far nor will it be as accurate as one you throw with a more relaxed fluid motion. This principle is true of all athletes, and it's the rare athlete that actually is better in the clutch. Sometimes it's just a matter of choking at a lesser level than your opponent. Tense muscles do not perform as well as relaxed muscles ... and the result is something that looks a bit like a lack of effort.

 

[Missed-layup]

That is very true!

 

[fan of Ray Williams]

I grew up in Minneapolis and lived here most of my life. I find basketball is thriving at the city schools, while football is sub par. St Paul seems to be better off than Minneapolis.

I would say to right the ship we need to establish better youth programs. Kids need to start learning the game from a young age. There is a serious lack of football knowledge in the Minneapolis park board system. There are some good people out there that care; they are few and far between. A lot of Minneapolis kids don't go out for football, especially some of the best athletes and I'm not going to pretend to know why. I can attest that the best football players I knew growing up never played high school.

I do remember growing up in Northeast and watching Edison go far in the state playoffs with a team that was all made up of all neighborhood talent (1989-1990). Soon after that I think there was a paradigm shift in the city that focused on diversifying the schools. This could have something to do with less committed players. The high schools are no longer neighborhood based and a sense of community is lost. Kids no longer grow up knowing that they are going to compete for Edison, Washburn, etc. They no longer dream about the representing the neighborhood.

An anecdotal example:
I remember reading an article in the Star tribune in 2008 where Wayzata played North and something like (estimate from memory) 11 players actually were eligible to play in the Minneapolis North district. This could be part of the problem and if it is I’m unsure how to fix it while providing opportunities for kids to succeed.

Good post, I think it's right on. I would go even further back and say that the exodus to the suburbs in the 60's was the start of the downfall of most sports in Minneapolis.