Structural Problem with the U of MN athletics?

What is the MAIN cause for our lack of talent?

  • Tubby just cannot recruit?

    Votes: 4 6.1%
  • The University offers little to attract new recruits?

    Votes: 7 10.6%
  • Maturi is the main systemic problem?

    Votes: 12 18.2%
  • The basketball facilities offer nothing to be desired?

    Votes: 5 7.6%
  • Tough academic requirements?

    Votes: 4 6.1%
  • Munson left the team in Shambles, its taking us this long to recover?

    Votes: 17 25.8%
  • Something not mentioned? (please offer ideas)

    Votes: 17 25.8%

  • Total voters
    66
  • Poll closed .

Missed-layup

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The big Question is this: It is obvious, and I think a consensus of basketball minds would agree, the problem with MN basketball, especially this year is the lack of talent on the team. We lost two supposedly big recruits and a starter but putting that aside as it is over and done with, is their a greater structural problem here at the U of MN that keeps us from getting a better stream of basketball recruits? This problem has plagued us since Clem left: What are the causes?
- Tubby just cannot recruit?
- MN as a university offers nothing to attract better talent?
- Maturis handling of the basketball program leaves recruiting gaps that make recruits not want to come here?
- The Facilities (The Barn, Campus, practice facilities, etc) are poor, thus recruits go elsewhere?
- Academic restrictions are too high
- Munson left the program in shambles and Tubby is just starting to recover?
- Something not mentioned? (please make suggestions)
 

Maruti is a good fund raiser.
Maturi is above average in public relations.
Maturi is ok at balancing budget.

Maturi is a loser.

Next question?
 


WOW!! Let's blame the AD for Royce stealing and trespassing - now he may have taken it too far but he was not the one who told the kid to go do some stupid things and get suspended. Then we have Trevor getting accused of rape - now he is only accused but it's gping to be hard for and AD to send out a player who has that charge against him until proven innocent. Then we have Nolen who can't pass his classes. Let's face it if we had all three of those players we would be asking what has let do the rise of gopher basketball rising from the ashes. Tubby's Smiths great recruiting, Maturi doing a great job of getting Tubby here, the historic facilities or the great place the Twin Cities are. Now i don't mind having a question of why we are having such a bad year, but don't please include three of our top five players (arguably) being suspended.
 

WOW!! Let's blame the AD for Royce stealing and trespassing - now he may have taken it too far but he was not the one who told the kid to go do some stupid things and get suspended. Then we have Trevor getting accused of rape - now he is only accused but it's gping to be hard for and AD to send out a player who has that charge against him until proven innocent. Then we have Nolen who can't pass his classes. Let's face it if we had all three of those players we would be asking what has let do the rise of gopher basketball rising from the ashes. Tubby's Smiths great recruiting, Maturi doing a great job of getting Tubby here, the historic facilities or the great place the Twin Cities are. Now i don't mind having a question of why we are having such a bad year, but don't please include three of our top five players (arguably) being suspended.

You make a good point. But did anything beyond just stupid players lead to these players having problems? Such as Tubby, Maturi, etc? From the sounds of your argument you might be placing blame on Tubby for his recruiting players like Mbwekwe or White who are not of sound character? I'm not sure nor is that my view. How exactly did Maturi get Tubby here? From all accounts Tubby fell into Maturi's lap.
 


How about 3 of the most talented players being in suits?

Please don't blame this on Tubby or Maturi.
 

Maturi

I find the constant harping about Maturi to be stupid. Show me one 5 star hoops recruit that said their choice of school was based on the AD.
 

I find the constant harping about Maturi to be stupid. Show me one 5 star hoops recruit that said their choice of school was based on the AD.

:confused::confused::confused:

Um, the reason Royce is no longer here is because of Maturi.
 




athletic direction

Let's face it, why did you come to the U? Most everyone posting here would say 'to get an education', not play sports. The U is academics first and has been since the Malcom Moos days when the U decided to de-emphasize sports in favor of becoming a pre-eminant grant research institution, and they've been highly successful! Now they seem to be awakening to the fact that the public face of the school is, unfortunately, not academics but a national sports perspective. An example is Boise State. High profile in football success but non-existant academic cred, laughingly small grant research. They don't even have alumni to run their school, mostly Berkley grads in charge. Are BSU degrees highly thought of? Get real, I won't hire BSU grads, if you actually find any. Less than 10% of their fan base are grads (of any school).

The U's athletic problem is too many years of mediocrity and diverting 'the flow' around the state where even the best in state talent wouldn't go to the U but would rather be in Madison or elsewhere. It's going to take a while to rebuild the public face and mentality and make it a 'destination' again, like in the 30's and 40's when football was 4 deep at every position and any one who was anyone came to the U and you had a team of seniors who win a national championship, graduate and you repeat the next season. Those teams were 'Americas teams" like Dallas likes to claim, but they were. Clem made it a place to play basketball, like him or not. Tubby will do it in a different manner but will do it. Will Brewster? Don't know, but give him some time, we gave Mason plenty of time and that managed to continue 'the flow' around Minn. The flow seems to returning a bit but it needs a lot of support to continue and grow. It needs our support.

Yes, we all want 'instant gratification' but that's not going to happen, every school wants it and many are too willing to 'bend' to make it happen. Maybe the U needs two standards, one for 'revenue' athletes and one for the rest of us. Like Cal does in football. How many think Kentucky isn't eventually going to get stung for this year's basketball success, especially if they win a national championship after last year? How did they get all these all star recruits in one batch, something just doesn't smell right and that smell will hit the fan. The difference will be that the 'snitch' won't be internal like it was against Clem because academics don't rule at Kentucky, except for those getting a masters in distilling burbon. Will they lose schollies due to a bunch of one and dones? Can't do that too many years in a row or you won't have any left. Things catch up when your competitors are bringing heat. Ask USC. Heck ask Toyota, it catches up no matter how many political strings you,ve got. It's a different world. Everyone ones looks to see why you've got something they don't.

We need to realize that it's a slow upward climb and will have to continue to absorb the pain and humiliation athletically and try trumpeting acedemic success until the teams catch up. Maybe we need academic rankings in the financial section of the paper to compensate for the sports section non-rankings. Just sayin'.

Enough of that rant.

Sorry.
 

HUH?

:confused::confused::confused:

Um, the reason Royce is no longer here is because of Maturi.

HUH ???

Right. Maturi was driving get away at the MOA and was the fence for the laptop!

Finally the truth comes out.





:confused::confused::confused:
 

Let's face it, why did you come to the U? Most everyone posting here would say 'to get an education', not play sports. The U is academics first and has been since the Malcom Moos days when the U decided to de-emphasize sports in favor of becoming a pre-eminant grant research institution, and they've been highly successful! Now they seem to be awakening to the fact that the public face of the school is, unfortunately, not academics but a national sports perspective. An example is Boise State. High profile in football success but non-existant academic cred, laughingly small grant research. They don't even have alumni to run their school, mostly Berkley grads in charge. Are BSU degrees highly thought of? Get real, I won't hire BSU grads, if you actually find any. Less than 10% of their fan base are grads (of any school).

The U's athletic problem is too many years of mediocrity and diverting 'the flow' around the state where even the best in state talent wouldn't go to the U but would rather be in Madison or elsewhere. It's going to take a while to rebuild the public face and mentality and make it a 'destination' again, like in the 30's and 40's when football was 4 deep at every position and any one who was anyone came to the U and you had a team of seniors who win a national championship, graduate and you repeat the next season. Those teams were 'Americas teams" like Dallas likes to claim, but they were. Clem made it a place to play basketball, like him or not. Tubby will do it in a different manner but will do it. Will Brewster? Don't know, but give him some time, we gave Mason plenty of time and that managed to continue 'the flow' around Minn. The flow seems to returning a bit but it needs a lot of support to continue and grow. It needs our support.

Yes, we all want 'instant gratification' but that's not going to happen, every school wants it and many are too willing to 'bend' to make it happen. Maybe the U needs two standards, one for 'revenue' athletes and one for the rest of us. Like Cal does in football. How many think Kentucky isn't eventually going to get stung for this year's basketball success, especially if they win a national championship after last year? How did they get all these all star recruits in one batch, something just doesn't smell right and that smell will hit the fan. The difference will be that the 'snitch' won't be internal like it was against Clem because academics don't rule at Kentucky, except for those getting a masters in distilling burbon. Will they lose schollies due to a bunch of one and dones? Can't do that too many years in a row or you won't have any left. Things catch up when your competitors are bringing heat. Ask USC. Heck ask Toyota, it catches up no matter how many political strings you,ve got. It's a different world. Everyone ones looks to see why you've got something they don't.

We need to realize that it's a slow upward climb and will have to continue to absorb the pain and humiliation athletically and try trumpeting acedemic success until the teams catch up. Maybe we need academic rankings in the financial section of the paper to compensate for the sports section non-rankings. Just sayin'.

Enough of that rant.

Sorry.

Good rant.
 

Let's face it, why did you come to the U? Most everyone posting here would say 'to get an education', not play sports. The U is academics first and has been since the Malcom Moos days when the U decided to de-emphasize sports in favor of becoming a pre-eminant grant research institution, and they've been highly successful! Now they seem to be awakening to the fact that the public face of the school is, unfortunately, not academics but a national sports perspective. An example is Boise State. High profile in football success but non-existant academic cred, laughingly small grant research. They don't even have alumni to run their school, mostly Berkley grads in charge. Are BSU degrees highly thought of? Get real, I won't hire BSU grads, if you actually find any. Less than 10% of their fan base are grads (of any school).

The U's athletic problem is too many years of mediocrity and diverting 'the flow' around the state where even the best in state talent wouldn't go to the U but would rather be in Madison or elsewhere. It's going to take a while to rebuild the public face and mentality and make it a 'destination' again, like in the 30's and 40's when football was 4 deep at every position and any one who was anyone came to the U and you had a team of seniors who win a national championship, graduate and you repeat the next season. Those teams were 'Americas teams" like Dallas likes to claim, but they were. Clem made it a place to play basketball, like him or not. Tubby will do it in a different manner but will do it. Will Brewster? Don't know, but give him some time, we gave Mason plenty of time and that managed to continue 'the flow' around Minn. The flow seems to returning a bit but it needs a lot of support to continue and grow. It needs our support.

Yes, we all want 'instant gratification' but that's not going to happen, every school wants it and many are too willing to 'bend' to make it happen. Maybe the U needs two standards, one for 'revenue' athletes and one for the rest of us. Like Cal does in football. How many think Kentucky isn't eventually going to get stung for this year's basketball success, especially if they win a national championship after last year? How did they get all these all star recruits in one batch, something just doesn't smell right and that smell will hit the fan. The difference will be that the 'snitch' won't be internal like it was against Clem because academics don't rule at Kentucky, except for those getting a masters in distilling burbon. Will they lose schollies due to a bunch of one and dones? Can't do that too many years in a row or you won't have any left. Things catch up when your competitors are bringing heat. Ask USC. Heck ask Toyota, it catches up no matter how many political strings you,ve got. It's a different world. Everyone ones looks to see why you've got something they don't.

We need to realize that it's a slow upward climb and will have to continue to absorb the pain and humiliation athletically and try trumpeting acedemic success until the teams catch up. Maybe we need academic rankings in the financial section of the paper to compensate for the sports section non-rankings. Just sayin'.

Enough of that rant.

Sorry.

Good Points, especially about the severe problems at Boisie State. Like you, I would rather watch A students with high Basketball IQs and high standard IQs get blown out by Michigan than watch a bunch of non-graduates beat the likes of Wisconsin, Ohio State, etc. Lets build our program around grades and IQ scores and let the chips fall. We need a bunch of Steven Hawkings on the floor stearing via straws, trying to shoot baskets, versus the spinning dunks by Rodney Williams. I wonder how full we could get Williams Arena doing it this way? Profits don't matter, its all about the kids, and getting them jobs in NASA and Wall Street. I would love to see the day when the front rows of Williams Arena would be filled with white collar recruiters from Goldman, IBM, NASA, Boeing, and Google versus those Bike short wearing recruiters from The Clippers, Pacers, Nets, Celtics, Etc.
 



Why does everyone assume that athletic success and high academic standards are mutually exclusive? I think that is on the of largest misconceptions that the fanbase has. There are plenty of schools that have high academic standards (higher than Minnesota even) that have had athletic success. Sounds like a bologna argument to me.
 

Good Points, especially about the severe problems at Boisie State. Like you, I would rather watch A students with high Basketball IQs and high standard IQs get blown out by Michigan than watch a bunch of non-graduates beat the likes of Wisconsin, Ohio State, etc. Lets build our program around grades and IQ scores and let the chips fall. We need a bunch of Steven Hawkings on the floor stearing via straws, trying to shoot baskets, versus the spinning dunks by Rodney Williams. I wonder how full we could get Williams Arena doing it this way? Profits don't matter, its all about the kids, and getting them jobs in NASA and Wall Street. I would love to see the day when the front rows of Williams Arena would be filled with white collar recruiters from Goldman, IBM, NASA, Boeing, and Google versus those Bike short wearing recruiters from The Clippers, Pacers, Nets, Celtics, Etc.

Bad rant.
 

Why does everyone assume that athletic success and high academic standards are mutually exclusive? I think that is on the of largest misconceptions that the fanbase has. There are plenty of schools that have high academic standards (higher than Minnesota even) that have had athletic success. Sounds like a bologna argument to me.

I agree, our standards may be more stringent than some other schools but Minnesota's standards are not anywhere close to those of a school like Stanford, Northwestern, etc..
 

Why does everyone assume that athletic success and high academic standards are mutually exclusive? I think that is on the of largest misconceptions that the fanbase has. There are plenty of schools that have high academic standards (higher than Minnesota even) that have had athletic success. Sounds like a bologna argument to me.

I don't think anyone is saying that they are mutually exclusive. It is more about emphasis and organization.

Under Moos...we completely demolished the athletic department and support organizations...it takes years to rebuild those and even longer to see sustained support. I think TCF, a new baseball stadium, better practice facilities for our BB teams, etc. are big indications that we are on the right track and I think Maturi is a great starter person for what we are doing. I think we all know that in 2-3 years, we will need a stronger AD, one that has the ability to run a big time program, not just fund raise...but for now, fundraising and getting talent into our coaching ranks is the name of the game and we are doing that.
 

Why does everyone in the "Royce/Trevor should have been playing all year" camp assume that Maturi is the only one responsible for the decision to sit them out? Isn't it a strong possibility that Tubby had a very large say in the decision? When did Tubby make the statement that he wanted to play Royce and Trevor but Maturi would not let him? Do you think that Bruininks had a say in sitting them out?

If someone could answer any of these questions I would appreciate it.
 

Very provocative question. Although a basketball board, the original post was broader. I think hockey needs to be separated a bit from the discussion. Hockey will rebound very soon to its normally stratospheric levels if Lucia 1) dumps John Hill as assistant and 2) recruits a few guys with more character and leadership ability. I think Maturi needs to step in and assure that Hill is dumped. The team has not played up to standards ever since he was hired. Hockey has very unique recruiting advantages over the other sports.

As for football and basketball, I believe the biggest problem with our programs are 1) a low volume of high end talent in the state and 2) the weather. It has to be just extremely difficult to get a kid to come here that has not been born and raised in this climate. Those of us from this state know it, but hate to admit it. I've often thought maybe the 'U' should build an athletic dorm/apartment centrally located on campus, and perhaps connected via tunnel or skyway to the athletic facilities to allow the young men from warmer climates to stay indoors if desired to go to practice.

I also believe the barn is a tremendous detriment to recruiting. I know the atmosphere is great, but I just don't think the kids today, for whatever reason, relate as well to it as they did in the past.

You can now commence dicing my barn comments.
 

Very provocative question. Although a basketball board, the original post was broader. I think hockey needs to be separated a bit from the discussion. Hockey will rebound very soon to its normally stratospheric levels if Lucia 1) dumps John Hill as assistant and 2) recruits a few guys with more character and leadership ability. I think Maturi needs to step in and assure that Hill is dumped. The team has not played up to standards ever since he was hired. Hockey has very unique recruiting advantages over the other sports.

As for football and basketball, I believe the biggest problem with our programs are 1) a low volume of high end talent in the state and 2) the weather. It has to be just extremely difficult to get a kid to come here that has not been born and raised in this climate. Those of us from this state know it, but hate to admit it. I've often thought maybe the 'U' should build an athletic dorm/apartment centrally located on campus, and perhaps connected via tunnel or skyway to the athletic facilities to allow the young men from warmer climates to stay indoors if desired to go to practice.

I also believe the barn is a tremendous detriment to recruiting. I know the atmosphere is great, but I just don't think the kids today, for whatever reason, relate as well to it as they did in the past.

You can now commence dicing my barn comments.

You raise a good point. Maybe the talent of MN kids is just not that great. This would explain our lack of Football and Basketball recruits. We all know MN is a Hockey Mecca so something else must explain that problem like coaching, but as far as Football and Basketball goes we might just not have great interstate talent.

Let me ask you this, Assume you are correct and our state talent is not very good, Why is that? How do we fix it? How long will that take?
 

The basketball team is not the problem, but more a symptom of the larger problem that is Joel's athletics department. Every single major sport has gotten worse under his tenure (except for Men's hoops), and then Men's hoops program is hardly anything to hang your hat on at this point
 

Let me ask you this, Assume you are correct and our state talent is not very good, Why is that? How do we fix it? How long will that take?

Great question. Wish I had a decent answer. Maybe the talent could better be described as thin rather than not very good. If Tubby did want to pass on a Royce White, then who would be next in line? It seems as though there is some high end talent, just not enough. I don't think hockey dilutes the basketball talent pool, because hockey/basketball players are different kinds of athletes.

The Twin Cities is predomanently white collar. A relatively high percentage of kids go to college, and maybe kids in high school are dreaming of a high paying job more than being the basketball hero or the football hero. My son goes to Eden Prairie High School, and while they have a strong athletic program, the thing that amazes me are all the other opportunities there. Every kind of club or organization imaginable is available to them.

I'd focus on the cities of Minneapolis and St. Paul to try to right the ship. For their size, we get very few football players. We need more help from the big boys.

This will take some time to fix, wonder if people have some ideas what we could do to build the big city talent base, especially in football?
 

Maturi hires possibly the best basketball coach in the history of the University and we blame him? And don't blame him for Royce or Trevor. If you listened to overall external public sentiment they would have been kicked off the team - he had no choice in the matters.

Tubby recruits back-to-back top 20 classes and he can't recruit? Last year we recruited the top two players in all of the Big 10.

If any of our juniors or seniors had the ability to score at will or became a true leader we're a top 20 team. Westbrook is the most capable player athletically to be a leader but his mental blunders and ego wrecked any chances of that from happening. The loss of power forwards was brutal for our defense.

I am not a fan of this poll's questions (I'm being civil here).
 

Maturi hires possibly the best basketball coach in the history of the University and we blame him?

That is incorrect. First of all, Tubby is not the best coach of the University--at least he hasn't proven it yet. In fact, he still has not had a winning season in the Big Ten yet. Dutcher was better and Clem got us to a final four. While Monson didn't fare well here in part due to the penalty crippled program, he was quite successful at Gonzaga helping put that program on the map and even beating the Gophers in the NCAAs.

Second, Tubby initiated the contact and many feel Tubby hired himself here. The one major program coach that Maturi definitely hired was Brewster and that has not gone very well.
 

In state talent has not been a problem in a long time, but appears to be in the 2010 and 2011 classes. Think a team of Nolen, Hoffarber, Leuer, White, Mbakwe, Taylor, Williams, and Lockett might win a few games? How about if they had Cole Aldrich playing Center? That's the Big Ten champs for sure.

I don't have any interest in an all Minnesota team, I just want the best players possible regardless of where they are from, just pointing out the talent from the state.

Tubby's recruiting is basically only coming under scrutiny for 2010, when none of us have seen Hollins play and few have seen Eliason. The first two classes were highly regarded and Tubby has yet to lose an in state player he offered. I am concerned about the ability of at least one current underclassmen that Tubby recruited to be a good Big Ten player, but I'd rather not call a player or players out like that. The truth is every player recruited under Tubby has had some very solid offers.

Talent certainly is not what's keeping the Gophers out of the tournament this year, but a lack of consistent focus and effort combined with what has to be one of the unluckiest seasons in the history of college basketball.
 

Maturi hires possibly the best basketball coach in the history of the University and we blame him? And don't blame him for Royce or Trevor. If you listened to overall external public sentiment they would have been kicked off the team - he had no choice in the matters.

Tubby recruits back-to-back top 20 classes and he can't recruit? Last year we recruited the top two players in all of the Big 10.

If any of our juniors or seniors had the ability to score at will or became a true leader we're a top 20 team. Westbrook is the most capable player athletically to be a leader but his mental blunders and ego wrecked any chances of that from happening. The loss of power forwards was brutal for our defense.

I am not a fan of this poll's questions (I'm being civil here).

If your not a fan, you don't have to answer. But your points are legitimate. I Disagree on Maturi hiring Tubby. Tubby wanted to come here and fell into Maturi's lap. Maturi would have hired a Munson type guy or even worse a Brewster type guy if he had not been this fortunate?
 

Great question. Wish I had a decent answer. Maybe the talent could better be described as thin rather than not very good. If Tubby did want to pass on a Royce White, then who would be next in line? It seems as though there is some high end talent, just not enough. I don't think hockey dilutes the basketball talent pool, because hockey/basketball players are different kinds of athletes.

The Twin Cities is predomanently white collar. A relatively high percentage of kids go to college, and maybe kids in high school are dreaming of a high paying job more than being the basketball hero or the football hero. My son goes to Eden Prairie High School, and while they have a strong athletic program, the thing that amazes me are all the other opportunities there. Every kind of club or organization imaginable is available to them.

I'd focus on the cities of Minneapolis and St. Paul to try to right the ship. For their size, we get very few football players. We need more help from the big boys.

This will take some time to fix, wonder if people have some ideas what we could do to build the big city talent base, especially in football?

A few other questions to ponder:

- Is our High School tournament system of Boys Basketball hurting the exposure of high school basketball, thus indirectly contributing to a lack of desire of our better athletes to play high school basketball. (The tournament is watered down with all the classes and teams: it is not "special" to play high school basketball, thus the better athletes go into Hockey which is a higher profile sport in MN)? Football may have the same problem?

- Does the success of our college and pro teams have an effect on the number of youth athletes that eventually play basketball, football, baseball, hockey? Because the Wolves have been horrible over the years does that actually harm our entire basketball system in MN? Same with Gophers hoops, which has been improving? Gopher Football which has been mediocre at best, but declining?
 

Second, Tubby initiated the contact

Could you provide quotes, proof, or anything else to back that up please?
 

If your not a fan, you don't have to answer. But your points are legitimate. I Disagree on Maturi hiring Tubby. Tubby wanted to come here and fell into Maturi's lap. Maturi would have hired a Munson type guy or even worse a Brewster type guy if he had not been this fortunate?

One more time. His name is Monson, not Munson.
 





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